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Flareon (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Windsong, Dec 9, 2011.

  1. Windsong

    Windsong .dancin
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    [​IMG]

    [Overview]

    <p>Ever since its RBY days, Flareon has been an underwhelming and overlooked Pokemon. Cursed with a miserable stat distribution and no good physical STAB, Flareon quickly sunk into the depths of UU. Since then, Flareon has not improved much, dropping even further down to NU. However, the RU metagame has a small place for Flareon, thanks to its niche ability to handle many of the strong special attackers of the tier, its access to Superpower, and its ability to pass Wish.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Wish Support
    move 1: Wish
    move 2: Protect
    move 3: Lava Plume / Flamethrower
    move 4: Toxic / Roar
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Flash Fire
    nature: Calm
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Flareon is capable of taking on a significant portion of the special attackers in RU, even offensive behemoths such as Moltres and Typhlosion, as neither of them are capable of breaking through Flareon with their Fire-type STABs thanks to Flash Fire. Flareon also makes a solid answer to a number of other threatening Pokemon in the tier, including boosted Lilligant and Porygon-Z, both of whom Flareon can survive hits from. In fact, non-Life Orb Lilligant fails to 2HKO this Flareon on average, even when boosted! Finally, Flareon is capable of heavily damaging many sun teams, which have significant troubles breaking through it.</p>

    <p>Wish is one of the main reasons to use Flareon. Thanks to Flareon's decent base HP, Wish can heal a lot of damage from one of its teammates. Protect is used in tandem with Wish in order to give Flareon pseudo-instant healing, while also allowing it to scout which move the opponent is using. Either Lava Plume or Flamethrower should be used in Flareon's next moveslot. While it seems that Lava Plume is always the superior choice for its high burn rate, Flamethrower is often more useful for avoiding unwanted burns against bulky Water-types and other Pokemon that Flareon would be better off using Toxic against. Finally, either Toxic or Roar fits into Flareon's last moveslot. Toxic lets it cripple things that switch in against or try and set up on Flareon, while Roar is useful for phazing out boosted attackers such as Lilligant.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Flareon's EVs give it maximum Special Defense, letting it take hits from a variety of powerful attackers. Flareon is even capable of taking boosted super effective hits from the likes of Lilligant, who fails to even 2HKO Flareon with HP Rock unless it's using a Life Orb, and Moltres, although Flareon has to avoid Choice Specs Air Slashes. Flash Fire is used over Guts because it allows Flareon to switch in against the many Fire-types in the tier, such as Typhlosion, Magmortar, and Entei.</p>

    <p>Flareon really needs two types of support to function effectively. First off, it needs to be paired with partners that are capable of switching in on strong physical attackers than can break through Flareon's weaker Defense. Excellent choices for this include Aggron, Steelix, and Dusknoir. Secondly, Flareon appreciates being paired with Pokemon who are capable of setting entry hazards, and Pokemon that are capable of spinning hazards. Good choices for setting up entry hazards are Qwilfish, Omastar, and Crustle. The spinners that have the best synergy with Flareon are Claydol and Sandslash, who can take on the strong Rock-types that plague Flareon, while setting up Stealth Rock in addition to spinning.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Fire Blast
    move 2: Superpower
    move 3: Return
    move 4: Hidden Power Grass
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Flash Fire
    nature: Naive / Hasty
    evs: 252 Atk / 12 SpA / 244 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>At first glance, Choice Scarf Flareon seems completely outclassed by other Fire-types in the tier, who boast greater offensive movepools, higher attacking stats, and dual STABs. However, Flareon has a few niches over those other Pokemon. Firstly, thanks to Flash Fire and its decent bulk, Flareon is capable of providing a solid counter to a variety of Pokemon such as Typhlosion, something that other Fire-types in RU are incapable of due to the fact that they would quickly be worn down from taking repeated STAB attacks. In addition, Flareon has access to Superpower, which makes it easier to plow through Aggron and other Rock-types, and sets it apart from Entei.</p>

    <p>Fire Blast is Flareon's best STAB option; even though Fire Fang hits off Flareon's higher base Attack stat, due to its low power, it simply doesn't hit hard enough. Superpower is the best choice for Flareon's next moveslot, setting it apart from most other RU Fire-types (barring Emboar), and letting it hit Rock-types harder than any other move Flareon has to offer. Return and Hidden Power Grass round off the moveset; Return has fairly decent neutral coverage, while Hidden Power Grass hits bulky Water- and Ground-types harder than most of Flareon's other moves.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Flareon's EVs allow it to outspeed all max Speed base 120s, with max Attack to hit as hard as possible, and the remainder placed into Special Attack to give Fire Blast and Hidden Power more of a punch. Flareon has a few moves worth noting as possible options over either Return or Hidden Power Grass, neither of which is very useful. Toxic can be used in order to cripple bulkier switch ins that Flareon can't touch, while Baton Pass can allow it to dry scout switch-ins. Overheat can also be used over Fire Blast, which lets Flareon hit harder, but makes it sacrifice the ability to clean up teams lategame. Hidden Power Rock has some merit over Hidden Power Grass, as it lets Flareon hit Moltres, Articuno, and Mantine reasonably hard. Finally, Flareon can opt for a purely physical Choice Scarf set, with Fire Fang over Fire Blast, although it's not very useful due to the low power of Flareon's physical STABs.</p>

    <p>In order to be used effectively, Flareon needs significant team support. For example, switch-ins to bulky Rock- and Water-types are necessary, since Flareon can't really hurt any of them and they can easily dispatch Flareon with their super effective STAB moves. In addition, Flareon needs Rapid Spin support, as it is hit for double damage by Stealth Rock, and isn't immune to any of the other entry hazards. Claydol, Hitmonchan, and Sandslash are all good options for this, as they resist Flareon's Rock- weakness and are all reasonably bulky. Offensive Pokemon that appreciate a good switch-in to the stronger Fire-types in the tier make good partners for Flareon as well, since it handles and gets a boost from their weakness.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Despite having no good physical STAB options, Flareon has quite a few offensive sets available to it. Guts abuse movesets using a Toxic Orb are somewhat viable, as are mixed Life Orb, Choice Band, Choice Specs, and even Flame Charge. However, none of them are particularly useful, as in order to use Guts, Flareon cannot use Flash Fire, which is the main reason to use it over Emboar or Typhlosion, while mixed and Choiced offensive sets are usually outclassed by Magmortar, Entei, or Typhlosion. Finally, Flareon has Curse, which can be useful, but Flareon doesn't have the physical movepool or the typing to pull it off very well.</p>

    <p>Flareon also has access to a few usable support options, such as Baton Pass, Yawn, Heal Bell, and Sunny Day. Flareon doesn't really have anything other than Curse and Substitute to Baton Pass, however, and is likely to get KOd before accomplishing a successful pass, while there are better supporters with Yawn and Heal Bell, such as Uxie. Finally, while Flareon can pull off a Sunny Day set, it's rather underwhelming, since Flareon doesn't do anything other than lose momentum for the team that it's being used on.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Most strong Rock-, Ground-, and Water-types are capable of plowing through Flareon with ease. Aggron, Archeops, Whiscash, Crawdaunt, and even Kingler are all excellent examples of Pokemon capable of breaking through Flareon. In general, strong physical attackers also pose a significant threat to Flareon, as its weak attacks are incapable of damaging them much, while it doesn't take them too long to crack through Flareon's defenses. Finally, entry hazards significantly damage Flareon, with Stealth Rock stripping away a quarter of its HP whenever it switches in and Toxic Spikes ruining its walling capabilities.</p>
  2. Omicron

    Omicron
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    Flame Charge could be worth an OO mention, and you should make a note on the Choice Scarf set that Superpower is illegal with Guts :/

    GF is a bitch
  3. Komodo

    Komodo
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    Hey do you think you could mention Hidden Power Rock, even if it's in Other Options. With no investment, Hidden Power Rock deals 69.8% - 82.2% to standard Moltres (0 HP / 0 SpD), 75.4% - 88.9% to standard Charizard (0 HP / 0 SpD), and it somewhat damages Entei and Mandibuzz (33.4% - 39.4% 0HP/0SpD) and (17% - 20.3% 252HP/252SpD), respectively.

    I know it isn't an insane amount of damage, but it's worth a mention, just cause Flareon doesn't really have anything to hit Fire-types with.
  4. Upstart

    Upstart Copy Cat

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    [QC APPROVED 1/3] Looks good
  5. EonADS

    EonADS

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    Jan 7, 2010
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    490
    ^ Have you actually read the comments on the first set or are you just being obnoxious?

    Good job deleting your post and making me look like a jackass, Andy.

    Is Flamethrower worth mentioning on the first set? Does it get any extra KOs that are actually important as opposed to Lava Plume? With no SpA investment, I somehow doubt it.

    Why are Grass-type teammates conspicuously absent from this analysis (other than vague mentions of 'stuff that can beat bulky waters' in the second set's AC)? Especially something like Tangrowth, who really prefers that Ice- and Fire-type special attackers are gone while walling Ground-, Rock-, and physical Water-types (and physical attackers in general). More mentions please.
  6. Windsong

    Windsong .dancin
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    Flamethrower's usefulness stems from its ability to avoid burns on bulky waters and other things that you'd be better off using Toxic on. I might move it to just AC at some point though.

    And I usually include more team options and such in the writeup, while using vaguer and more broad descriptions in the skeleton (it's just a habit of mine on how I write the skeletons), but if members of the QC team want I can list specifics.
  7. breh

    breh
    is a Smogon IRC AOP

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    I am not a player of this tier, but

    the scarf set seems inferior to entei. it accepts worse stats everywhere for scarfed superpower; is that really worth it? as far as I can gather, the main use it has is to kill aggron; beyond that, it looks to be worse.
  8. Lee

    Lee @ Thick Club
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    leave flamethrower slashed in; I used this set a lot last gen and it ruined my life when Milotic or Slowbro got burned on the switch and I had to switch out - especially annoying considering that Flareon beats the two quite handily.

    Lava Plume's nice enough too, considering that it's mostly physical attackers that switch into Flareon but I found that there was too many occassions where I thought 'geez, i hope this doesn't burn' so in the end, i went with Flamethrower and never looked back.

    (until one game where Flamethrower burned Milotic on the switch and I went apeshit)
  9. Nails

    Nails EAST 2014
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    [QC APPROVED 2/3]

    i enjoyed lee's anecdote
  10. Oglemi

    Oglemi it's me heysup's gay friend, the legendary gaysup
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

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    [​IMG]

    QC APPROVED 3/3
  11. Komodo

    Komodo
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    Show Hide


    Red is remove, blue is edit.
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  12. Windsong

    Windsong .dancin
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    Implemented, thanks!
  13. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Ruiner of Alph

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    I'm in your thread, checkin' your Flareon...

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    (Comments)

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    [Overview]

    <p>Ever since its RBY days, Flareon has been an underwhelming and overlooked Pokemon. Cursed with a miserable stat distribution and no good physical STAB, Flareon quickly sunk into the depths of UU. Since then, Flareon has not improved much, dropping even further down to NU. However, the RU metagame has a small place for Flareon, thanks to its niche ability to handle many of the strong special attackers of the tier, its access to Superpower, and its ability to pass Wish.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Wish Support
    move 1: Wish
    move 2: Protect
    move 3: Lava Plume / Flamethrower
    move 4: Toxic / Roar
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Flash Fire
    nature: Calm
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Flareon is capable of taking on a significant portion of the special attackers in RU, even offensive behemoths such as Moltres and Typhlosion, as neither of them are capable of breaking through Flareon with their Fire-type STABs thanks to Flash Fire. Flareon also makes a solid answer to a number of other threatening Pokemon in the tier, including boosted Lilligant and Porygon-Z, both of whom Flareon can survive hits from. In fact, non-Life (hyphen) Orb Lilligant fails to 2HKO this Flareon on average, even when boosted! Finally, Flareon is capable of heavily damaging many sun teams, which have significant troubles breaking through it.</p>

    <p>Wish is one of the main reasons to use Flareon. Thanks to Flareon’s decent base HP, Wish can heal a lot of damage from one of its teammates. Protect is used in tandem with Wish in order to give Flareon pseudo-instant (hyphen) healing, while also allowing it to scout which move the opponent is using. Either Lava Plume or Flamethrower should be used in Flareon’s next moveslot. While it seems like that Lava Plume is always the superior choice for its high burn rate, Flamethrower is often more useful for avoiding unwanted burns against bulky Water-types and other Pokemon that Flareon would be better off using Toxic against. Finally, either Toxic or Roar fits into Flareon’s last moveslot. Toxic lets it cripple things that switch in against or try and set up on Flareon, while Roar is useful for phazing out boosted attackers such as Lilligant.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Flareon’s EVs give it maximum Special Defense, letting it take hits from a variety of powerful attackers. Flareon is even capable of taking boosted super effective hits from the likes of Lilligant, who fails to even 2HKO Flareon with HP Rock unless it’s using a Life Orb, and Moltres, although Flareon has to avoid Choice Specs Air Slashes. Flash Fire is used over Guts because it allows Flareon to switch in against the many Fire-types in the tier, such as Typhlosion, Magmortar, and Entei.</p>

    <p>Flareon really needs two types of support to function effectively. First off, it needs to be paired with partners that are capable of switching in on strong physical attackers than can break through Flareon’s weaker Defense. Excellent choices for this include Aggron, Steelix, and Dusknoir. Secondly, Flareon appreciates being paired with Pokemon who are capable of setting entry hazards, and Pokemon that are capable of spinning hazards. Good choices for setting up entry hazards are Qwilfish, Omastar, and Crustle., while The spinners that have the best synergy with Flareon are Claydol and Sandslash, who can take on the strong Rock-types that plague Flareon, while setting up Stealth Rock in addition to spinning.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Fire Blast
    move 2: Superpower
    move 3: Return
    move 4: Hidden Power Grass
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Flash Fire
    nature: Naive / Hasty
    evs: 252 Atk / 12 SpA / 244 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>At first glance, Choice Scarf Flareon seems completely outclassed by other Fire-types in the tier, who boast greater offensive movepools, higher attacking stats, and dual STABs. However, Flareon has a few niches over those other Pokemon. Firstly, thanks to Flash Fire and its decent bulk, Flareon is capable of providing a solid counter to a variety of Pokemon such as Typhlosion, something that other Fire-types in RU are incapable of due to the fact that they would quickly be worn down from taking repeated STAB attacks. In addition, Flareon has access to Superpower, which makes it easier to plow through Aggron and other Rock-types, and sets it apart from Entei.</p>

    <p>Fire Blast is Flareon’s best STAB option; even though Fire Fang hits off Flareon’s higher base Attack stat, due to its low power, it simply doesn’t hit hard enough. Superpower is the best choice for Flareon’s next moveslot, setting it apart from most other RU Fire-types (barring Emboar), and letting it hit Rock-types harder than any other move Flareon has to offer. Return and Hidden Power Grass round off the moveset;, (semi) Return has fairly decent neutral coverage, while Hidden Power Grass hits bulky Water- and Ground-types harder than most of Flareon’s other moves.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Flareon’s EVs allow it to outspeed all max Speed base 120s, with max Attack to hit as hard as possible, and the remainder placed into Special Attack to give Fire Blast and Hidden Power more of a punch. Flareon has a few moves worth noting as possible options over either Return or Hidden Power Grass, neither of which is very useful. Toxic can be used in order to cripple bulkier switch ins that Flareon can’t touch, while Baton Pass can allow it to dry scout switch-ins. Overheat can also be used over Fire Blast, which lets Flareon hit harder, but makes it sacrifice the ability to clean up teams lategame. Hidden Power Rock has some merit over Hidden Power Grass, as it lets Flareon hit Moltres, Articuno, and Mantine reasonably hard. Finally, Flareon can opt for a purely physical Choice Scarf set, with Fire Fang over Fire Blast, although it’s not very useful due to the low power of Flareon’s physical STABs.</p>

    <p>In order to be used effectively, Flareon needs significant team support. For example, switch-ins to bulky Rock- and Water-types are necessary, since Flareon can’t really hurt any of them and they can easily dispatch Flareon with their super effective STAB moves. In addition, Flareon needs Rapid Spin support, as it is hit for double damage by Stealth Rock, and isn’t immune to any of the other entry hazards. Claydol, Hitmonchan, and Sandslash are all good options for this, as they resist Flareon’s Rock- weakness and are all reasonably bulky. Offensive Pokemon that appreciate a good switch-in to the stronger Fire-types in the tier make good partners for Flareon as well, since it handles and gets a boost from their weakness.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Despite having no good physical STAB options, Flareon has quite a few offensive sets available to it. Guts abuse movesets using a Toxic Orb are somewhat viable, as are mixed Life Orb, Choice Band, Choice Specs, and even Flame Charge. However, none of them are particularly useful, as in order to use Guts, Flareon cannot use Flash Fire, which is the main reason to use it over Emboar or Typhlosion, while mixed and Choiced offensive sets are usually outclassed by Magmortar, Entei, or Typhlosion. Finally, Flareon has Curse, which can be useful, but Flareon doesn’t have the physical movepool or the typing to pull it off very well.</p>

    <p>Flareon also has access to a few usable support options, such as Baton Pass, Yawn, Heal Bell, and Sunny Day. Flareon doesn’t really have anything other than Curse and Substitute to Baton Pass, however, and is likely to get KOd before accomplishing a successful pass, while there are better supporters with Yawn and Heal Bell, such as Uxie. Finally, while Flareon can pull off a Sunny Day set, it’s rather underwhelming, since Flareon doesn’t do anything other than lose momentum for the team that it’s being used on.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Most strong Rock-, Ground-, and Water-types are capable of plowing through Flareon with ease. Aggron, Archeops, Whiscash, Crawdaunt, and even Kingler are all excellent examples of Pokemon capable of breaking through Flareon. In general, strong physical attackers also pose a significant threat to Flareon, as its weak attacks are incapable of damaging them much, while it doesn’t take them too long to crack through Flareon’s defenses. Finally, entry hazards significantly damage Flareon, with Stealth Rock stripping away a quarter of its HP whenever it switches in and Toxic Spikes ruining its walling capabilities.</p>

    Good job, mate.
    [​IMG]
    2/2
  14. Bloo

    Bloo
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    Uploaded.

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