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Flygon [full revamp] (Stage 2) GP Check: 2/2

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by kd24, Mar 25, 2013.

  1. kd24

    kd24 yo daddy musta been a drug dealer? why, cuz you're dope
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    So I rewrote this one myself from scratch for the mostpart. CBB, Dekzeh, McMeghan, Ojama, and M Dragon really helped on this one.

    [Overview]

    <p>Flygon has a unique typing; its resistance to Rock and immunity to Ground and Electric makes it a solid check to Tyranitar, Aerodactyl, Hidden Power Grass Raikou, and others. Its ability also means it's the only Rock-type resist immune to Spikes outside of Claydol. The fact that it gets STAB on Earthquake is also nice; it has very good Attack and Special Attack stats as well. In fact, it has decent stats all around, and can act as a makeshift tank in a pinch. All in all, it is very good Pokemon that can and should be used in the OU metagame. If you use it well, it should bring you a lot of success.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulky
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: Rock Slide
    move 3: Fire Blast
    move 4: Hidden Power Bug / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Naughty
    evs: 188 HP / 180 Atk / 140 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Flygon's typing and ability allows it to check many Pokemon, and this set takes advantage of it. Earthquake is your STAB and is Flygon's most threatening attack. Rock Slide takes out Aerodactyl and Zapdos, both of which are kept in check by Flygon's typing. It's also Flygon's strongest attack against threats like Gengar. Fire Blast keeps Skarmory and Forretress from walling Flygon, while Hidden Power Bug allows it to take out Celebi and is Flygon's strongest attack versus Claydol and opposing Flygon. Toxic can be used over Hidden Power Bug for Swampert, which normally keeps Flygon in check. It also severely hinders common switch-ins such as Porygon2 and Claydol.</p>

    <p>With 188 HP EVs, Flygon is never 2HKOed by standard Dragon Dance Tyranitar's Hidden Power Bug, making Flygon a complete counter to that variation of Tyranitar. 140 Speed EVs give Flygon 270 Speed, enough to outspeed Adamant Heracross and max Speed Modest Suicune. If you're wondering why to not alter Flygon's IVs to give it a 31 Speed IV Hidden Power Bug, it's because the 31 Speed variant drops Flygon's Attack and Defense, both of which are needed. A Naughty nature rather than Adamant allows Flygon to 2HKO defensive Skarmory and guarantees a 3HKO on specially defensive Skarmory.</p>

    <p>An alternative spread of Naive with max Attack and Speed can be used for a more offensive Flygon. This spread always outspeeds Timid Hidden Power Fire Celebi and ties with Timid Jirachi. This spread loses the bulk of the first one for a chance to outspeed most Pokemon, including Timid Suicune.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: Rock Slide
    move 3: Hidden Power Bug
    move 4: Fire Blast
    item: Choice Band
    nature: Naive
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    ivs: 30 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>The strategy here is simple: switch into either another Choice Band user or physical sweeper using Earthquake or Rock Slide, predict what they're going to switch to or if they'll stay in, and attack accordingly. As with all Choice Band users, this set requires good prediction, but has a good payoff. Hidden Power Bug is useful for Grass-types, Celebi in particular, while Fire Blast takes out Skarmory.</p>

    <p>This Flygon will want to maximize its Speed in order to beat Timid Celebi, Salamence, Houndoom, and to tie with Jirachi. Like the previous set, a Naive nature rather than Jolly boosts Flygon's power against Skarmory. Naive is preferred over Hasty in order to check Tyranitar and Aerodactyl more effectively.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Substitute
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Rock Slide
    move 4: Toxic / Hidden Power Bug / Fire Blast
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 220 HP / 148 Atk / 140 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Flygon's typing makes Substitute a great idea for a Pokemon that can set it up so easily. Like the first set, you're mainly looking to rely on Earthquake and Rock Slide, but using more HP to set up a Substitute on weaker attacks. Zapdos's Hidden Power Grass will never break Flygon's Substitute and opposing Flygon will usually fail to break its Substitute as well.</p>

    <p>Flygon usually checks itself well, so using Substitute in conjunction with Toxic can take down what might be their only answer to your Flygon. Toxic also wears down threats such as Swampert, which makes Flygon an excellent teammate to Pokemon like Tyranitar and Salamence. If Toxic seems too slow-paced for your team, Hidden Power Bug can be used to hit Celebi while Fire Blast prevents Skarmory and Forretress from setting up on Flygon's Substitutes. Another option is to partner Flygon with Magneton to deal with Skarmory and Forretress, rather than using a slot for Fire Blast.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>A special set can use Dragon Claw, Fire Blast, and Giga Drain to take on defensive teams revolving around Swampert, Salamence, Skarmory, and other Pokemon that might give standard Flygon trouble. Hidden Power Ghost can wreck an incoming Gengar, while Hidden Power Flying OHKOes foolhardy Heracross trying to switch into Earthquake. Screech can force switches and threatens some Pokemon that Flygon couldn't normally take out, giving Flygon a chance to use its wide coverage or beat last Pokemon Snorlax or defensive Suicune.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Ice-type attacks are usually the surest way to deal with Flygon. Claydol and bulky Pokemon with Hidden Power Ice are very safe counters to it. Porygon2 can trace Levitate to evade Earthquake and is weak to none of Flygon's attacks. Swampert, Milotic, and Suicune can come in reliably on anything but a Choice Band-boosted Earthquake—which doesn't OHKO regardless—and use Ice Beam on Flygon. Heracross and Skarmory can deal with Flygon lacking Fire Blast, and can still survive a hit and force it out even if Flygon does carry it.</p>

    <p>Celebi can take on Flygon that aren't using Hidden Power Bug, and Reflect Celebi can even hold its own versus Flygon that do. Cloyster and Gengar both take little damage from Flygon's attacks and can comfortably OHKO back. Be careful of Electric-types that hold Hidden Power Ice, as they can make short work out of Flygon that expect Hidden Power Grass. Intimidate from Salamence and Gyarados can weaken Rock Slide so that Flygon can barely touch them.</p>
  2. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Yea, this Analysis needs some work - it's very bare bones (especially Checks and Counters).

    There should be an AC for every set.

    Move Naive to AC and make Jolly / Adamant the main Natures for CB. Even with negative nature, Fire Blast still 2HKOs both Skarmory and Forretress (OHKOs the latter if physically defensive) - the extra 10% SpA boost makes no notable difference, whereas that 10% fall in defense is always significant.

    OO mention Screech - although it may be a bit outdated in the current meta, it's still a viable option to beat last-mon Curselax and Crocune, and it can also put bulky Water-types in a checkmate position with some Spikes support, since they cant tank Earthquakes forever.
  3. kd24

    kd24 yo daddy musta been a drug dealer? why, cuz you're dope
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    sorry but im not sure what else i would possibly say on many of these sets. i dont want to waste my reader's times with fluff and the information is covered efficiently in these analysis. i mentioned relevant OU checks and counters as well that i'm not sure what else needs to be said here. there's a difference between not conveying enough info and simply being brief enough that you give out all relevant info. you'd have to give specifics about what you would personally change because with this project i simply dont have the time to try and bullshit word count to make things look more professional. imo, actual content > presentation which is why im also against using words like plethora, myriad, etc and redundant phrases. we're a site primarily for teenagers and these analysis are for them to get a brief overview of the meta, common sets, and pokemon advice. let's act like this. this is just my opinion but if im dedicating the time to organizing this so we're actually relevant in 3rd gen, i really just cant get on board with "adding fluff" at all. in adv team options are limitless and spikes are a given so i cant really expect myself to say "this works great with spikes support" or "use generic good adv pokemon" (that being said, im not editing the work of writers before me who decided to include this kind of stuff, i just wont be writing it of my own accord).

    definite no on the natures sorry. we spent hours on IRC perfecting the spreads and we decided that naive was still best overall.

    ill add screech to OO but we did remove it from the sets for being bad. that being said it deserves mention for OO
  4. Oglemi

    Oglemi I love you wonderful Minun-Kun!
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    You don't mention anywhere in the sets what kinds of teams Flygon is good on, what teammates should be used, or even what counters the sets. That's the kind of stuff you need in AC, it's not a matter of being brief, you're missing info.

    This is also why we don't refer to other sets in the analysis. You currently have the Bulky set listed first, rendering this sentence useless.
  5. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Well regardless, Checks and Counters needs to be fleshed out more.

    You can mention Regice as a decent check to Flygon, thanks to its overall bulk. Also add Celebi for being an excellent Flygon counter that lacks HP Bug (or versus CB Flygon that's not locked into HP Bug). No mention of Intimidate users Gyarados or Salamence to nerf Flygon? Timid Zapdos and Gengar can switch in on any moves barring Rock Slide and threaten Flygon with HP Ice and Ice Punch, respectively. Physically defensive Forretress and Cloyster can tank physical hits from Flygon comfortably to set up Spikes or Spin. Dusclops and Weezing, both arguably rare, can tank a hit with much health to spare (only exception being CB EQ vs Dusclops) and threaten to burn Flygon. Flygon is also a good counter to itself, as long as it's packing HP Bug or Dragon Claw.

    See how much more you can expand on its checks and counters?

    You're being irrational now - it's irrelevant how long for you guys to reach a consensus of max Atk / max Spe (lol) at Naive Nature - the facts that I provided points all direction towards making CB Flygon Jolly Nature. Can you or others provide me a more convincing reason to sacrifice its special bulk, just so it can use its one special move (on a CB mon no less) against one threat (Skarmory) that is already 2HKOed regardless of the nature? Is it really worth scraping its defense, just so it can dish more damage versus a specially defensive Skarmory (a rare variant), that wont be staying on a Flygon choice-locked into Fire Blast in the first place?
  6. JabbaTheGriffin

    JabbaTheGriffin Stormblessed
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    jesus fucking christ guys. these are adv updates. they don't need to meet the ridiculous standards that bw analyses have. they're for new players to get a better feel for the game than they would by reading the old analyses. we can tweak things like counters and whatnot after we get all this stuff onsite. but for now, if you're not contributing anything substantive, please go shove it.
  7. kd24

    kd24 yo daddy musta been a drug dealer? why, cuz you're dope
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    im ok with adding more checks and counters that pocket mentioned im just confused as to why you simply didnt mention them in your first post as if you expected me to figure them out just by insulting the work

    what kind of teams are these pokemon good one? pokemon teams? adv is nothing like newer gens and team themes are incredibly rare. it has more to do with pokemon matchups than teambuilding matchups which is why its such a great gen and why these analysis should be updated, especially when there's a literal smogon tour going on RIGHT NOW we should be hustling to get these updated and onsite.

    its not me being angry about being expected to do work its that you're expecting me to just bullshit my way through and i refuse to take that approach.

    pocket, ill ask dekzeh to post calcs about this tomorrow
  8. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Man you guys are so fucking sensitive - can't you take a frank advice as it is? I conceded that if you don't want ACs, then w/e, but Checks and Counters needs a huge revamp. Where exactly did you get the "insulting" vibe from my posts >_>.

    I am not telling you to bullshit, I'm telling you to elaborate more on the sets to help out newcomers to better familiarize themselves with this metagame.
  9. kd24

    kd24 yo daddy musta been a drug dealer? why, cuz you're dope
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    obv if you conceded our points about "team options and ac" was directed at oglemi

    pocket, im sorry but this isnt frank advice:

    this is literally insulting. there is a smogon tour going on atm and the goal should be to update analysis as quickly as possible so players can have a clue about what is even going on atm. you called the entire analysis very bare bones without originally offering any advice and you also signaled out checks and counters without mentioning anything. i appreciate the help but if you're not going to actually give any and just say you should work harder on this then its not needed.

    thank you for then actually suggesting checks and counters, as i said i dont know why you originally just didnt do this but clearly im not angry or defensive considering i just edited them into the analysis.
  10. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    well okay - i guess i know where you're coming from now.

    As the OP of this analysis, I was expecting you to know what's needed to be done. But I do realize that you're more of a facilitator.

    My first post was merely my first impression - I wasn't giving specific advice, because it was only a perfunctory check on quality. I would have given more specific advice if this analysis seemed to be progressing slowly, but my first post was merely telling you guys that "this needs work, it wont be going up as it is right now." It's what QC members do.

    If you want shit to go up quickly on-site, then there's always the SCMS route for quick fixes. But if we're talking about revamping / a complete overhaul of ADV analyses for the long-term, then we will of course be looking at substance. Simple moveset changes wont suffice.

    I hope we all understand each other... we're all here for collaboration, not sabotage.
  11. JabbaTheGriffin

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    I think you're completely wrong right here. Almost every ADV mons is ridiculously out of date. Fixing them is a process much more complicated than just making a few quick fixes on the SCMS. The number one priority right now is to get these pokemon up to date with a complete revamp. Substance can come second if anyone is up to the task. But this should have been done a long time ago and I'm glad kd has stepped up to the plate and made it happen.

    Also kd, I'm not sure why the bulkier spread won out over the offensive spread on 4 attack flygon, but i'll ask you that on irc.
  12. chaos

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    Let's all cool it a bit.

    We don't need to make this perfect before we put it on the site. All of these analyses were discussed for hours ("QC'ed") by some of the best players we have in ADV, so I don't think we are putting up utter nonsense that we would be ashamed of later.

    I disagree with Pocket that we necessarily need AC on every set--if there is something concrete you want to add, suggest it. But AC for the sake of AC is counterproductive. However, I do agree with Oglemi that we need more checks and counters, but maybe we could make a quick update NOW and edit in checks and counters after the fact? That way, we stay relevant for the ADV tour, but eventually end up with a high quality article.

    Finally, we should all respect the work of others. Pocket, I think you touched a nerve with kd by saying "Yea, this Analysis needs some work". kd put in a lot of effort gathering together ADV players, debating, and shouldering the responsibility of rewriting the sets based on our discussions. So, while he might need to boost the checks and counters, it's always polite to thank a known user for their work before suggesting constructive criticism.

    Thanks everyone!

    edit: this post was meant to go before pocket's above reply
  13. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Thanks, chaos. I have been actively QCing the ADV (and RBY / GSC) revamps for a year now, specifically when Oglemi opened this sub-forum. I think I checked almost every ADV revamp that came through this subforum, and I was sad that the revamp effort died down.
    Needless to say, I am happy that kd24 brought this endeavor back to life full force. I was simply taken aback that my eagerness to help prompted people to lash out at me.

    So yes, I am grateful for kd24's leadership and orchestration in getting this up back on track with our ADV players' assistance. I hope you all can respect what Oglemi and I (and others) have done so far for this ADV revamp effort as well, before kd24 was here to save the day. Please don't treat us like shit, we deserve as much say as you guys do -_-
  14. Crystal_

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    I personally like Adamant nature in the bulky set with some SpD evs to survive ice beams from bulky waters at full health and better deal with hp grass zapdos/raikou. But I don't know, if you feel Naughty is better/more common, then keep it.
  15. sandshrewz

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    erm the IV spread wasn't mentioned ?_? Might want the ivs: section for that set. Unless I'm missing something then nvm >_>

    Edit: yea thanks for clarifying that kd! :) I had no idea which set has the standard HP Bug and which didn't.
  16. Dekzeh

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    The reason to have Naive instead of Adamant on Flygon is for the guaranteed 2HKO on physically defensive Skarmory (which Adamant barely misses) but most importantly it gets the guaranteed 3HKO on SDef Skarmory, while Adamant can be Rest looped. We spent a lot of time discussing this last night and came to the conclusion the small SDef loss is worth not risk being stalled out by arguably the currently most popular Skarmory set.

    The truth is Flygon is very well-rounded and wants all of its stats, you will have to sacrifice something on the bulky attacker, whether it is speed, defense, attack, special defense, special attack, or HP. We just all agreed that giving up on SDef is the best way to go about it.
  17. kd24

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    hp bug sets those ivs by default so they don't actually need to be list, but i added the 31 speed ivs for the cb set because it's important and not the automatic iv spread, thanks for catching that
  18. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Thanks, Dekzeh, for communicating with the rest of us about the thoughts behind the Nature.

    3HKO on specially defensive Skarm isn't exactly something to write home about, especially if you're getting choice-locked - I'd much rather pack a Magneton and get it over with. Physically defensive Skarmory are 2HKOed anyways. Again, I don't see the point in reducing its usable special bulk just so it can deal more damage to this one particular Skarmory set.
  19. HUARGH

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    I hope I'm not stepping on any toes as it got quite heated already in this topic, but I have found the first set to be particularly useless in the majority of situations. I have used it extensively (with similar EVs, 252/252, similar moves, ...,) and it always felt off. The infamous 'superman' team (aero/t-tar/flygon/skarmory, the other two pokemon swapped out in many variations of VIL's team but originally zapdos/swampert) uses the same moveset Flygon and I have never witnessed it to be a superior option over the substitute or CB variant.

    What are your thoughts on having this set as the first (and my opinion about the set)?
  20. chaos

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    It is always OK to comment on analyses and I am glad you posted what you did! If you want to discuss it you might join #adv on irc.synirc.net. We can't guarantee that your change will be put in immediately, as at the moment we are trying to push through quick updates, but questions/comments/discussion is always appreciated as long as it doesn't hold up progress

    (As for Flygon I never use it so I won't comment)
  21. GatoDelFuego

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    [Overview]

    <p>Flygon has a unique typing; (SC) its resistance to Rock and immunity to Ground and Electric makes it a solid check to Tyranitar, Aerodactyl, Hidden Power Grass Raikou, and others. Its ability also means it's the only Rock-type resist immune to Spikes outside of Claydol. The fact that it gets STAB on Earthquake is also nice; it has very good Attack and Special Attack stats as well. In fact, it has decent stats all around, and can act as a makeshift tank in a pinch. All in all, it is very good Pokemon that can and should be used in the OU metagame. If you use it well, it should bring you a lot of success.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulky
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: Rock Slide
    move 3: Fire Blast
    move 4: Hidden Power Bug / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Naughty
    evs: 188 HP / 180 Atk / 140 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Flygon's typing and ability allows it to check many Pokemon, (AC) and this set takes advantage of it. Earthquake is your STAB and is Flygon's most threatening attack. Rock Slide takes out Aerodactyl and Zapdos, both of which are kept in check by Flygon's typing. It's also Flygon's strongest attack against threats like Gengar. Fire Blast keeps Skarmory and Forretress from walling you, while Hidden Power Bug allows Flygon to take out Celebi and is Flygon's strongest attack versus Claydol and opposing Flygon. Toxic can be used over Hidden Power Bug for Swampert, which normally keeps Flygon in check. It also severely hinders common switch-ins like such as Porygon2 and Claydol.</p>

    <p>With 188 HP EVs, Flygon is never 2HKOed by standard Dragon Dance Tyranitar's Dragon Dance Hidden Power Bug, making Flygon a complete counter to that variation of Tyranitar. 140 Speed EVs give Flygon 270 Speed, enough to outspeed Adamant Heracross and max Speed Modest Suicune. If you're wondering why to not alter Flygon's IVs to give it a 31 Speed IV Hidden Power Bug, the 31 Speed variant drops Flygon's Attack and Defense, both of which are needed Include the IVs necessary for this variation under the EVs then?. A Naughty nature rather than Adamant allows Flygon to 2HKO defensive Skarmory and guarantees a 3HKO on specially defensive Skarmory.</p>

    <p>An alternative spread of Naive with max Attack and Speed can be used for a move offensive Flygon. This spread always outspeeds Timid Hidden Power Fire Celebi (make sure to set Hidden Power Bug's Speed IV to 31) and ties with threats like Timid Jirachi. This spread loses the bulk of the first one for a chance to outspeed most Pokemon, including Timid Suicune.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: Rock Slide
    move 3: Hidden Power Bug
    move 4: Fire Blast
    item: Choice Band
    nature: Naive
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    ivs: 30 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>The strategy here is simple: switch into either another Choice Band user or physical sweeper using Earthquake or Rock Slide, then predict what they're going to switch to, (RC) or if they'll stay in, and attack accordingly. As with all Choice Band users, this set requires good prediction, but has a good payoff. Hidden Power Bug is useful for Grass-types, Celebi in particular, while Fire Blast takes out Skarmory.</p>

    <p>This Flygon will want to maximize its Speed in order to beat Timid Celebi, Salamence, Houndoom, and to tie with Jirachi. Like the previous set, a Naive nature rather than Jolly boosts Flygon's power against Skarmory. Naive is preferred over Hasty in order to continue to check threats like Tyranitar and Aerodactyl more effectively.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Substitute
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Rock Slide
    move 4: Toxic / Hidden Power Bug / Fire Blast
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 220 HP / 148 Atk / 140 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Flygon's typing makes Substitute a great idea for a Pokemon that can set it up so easily. Like the first set, you're mainly looking to rely on Earthquake and Rock Slide, but using more HP to set up a Substitute on weaker attacks. Zapdos's Hidden Power Grass will never break Flygon's Substitute and opposing Flygon will usually fail to break your sub as well.</p>

    <p>Flygon usually checks itself well, so using Substitute in conjunction with Toxic can take down what might be there only answer to you, (AC) Flygon. Toxic also wears down threats like Swampert, (AC) which makes Flygon an excellent teammate to Pokemon like Tyranitar and Salamence. If Toxic seems too slow, Hidden Power Bug hits Celebi while Fire Blast prevents Skarmory and Forretress from setting up on your Substitutes. Another option is to partner Flygon with Magneton to deal with Skarmory and Forretress, rather than using a slot for Fire Blast.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>A special set can abuse Dragon Claw, Fire Blast, and Giga Drain to take on defensive teams revolving around Swampert, Salamence, Skarmory, and other pokemon who that might give standard Flygon trouble. Hidden Power Ghost can wreck an incoming Gengar, while Hidden Power Flying OHKOes foolhardy Heracross trying to switch into Earthquake. Screech can force switches and threatens some Pokemon that Flygon couldn't normally take out, giving Flygon a chance to use its wide coverage or beat last Pokemon Snorlax or defensive Suicune.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Ice-type attacks are usually the surest way to deal with Flygon. Claydol and bulky Pokemon with Hidden Power Ice are very safe counters to Flygon. Porygon2 can trace Levitate to evade Earthquake and is weak to none of Flygon's attacks. Swampert, Milotic, and Suicune can come in reliably on anything but a Choice Band-boosted Earthquake—which doesn't OHKO regardless—and Ice Beam Flygon. Heracross and Skarmory can deal with Flygon lacking Fire Blast, and can still survive a hit and force it out even if Flygon does carry it.</p>

    <p>Celebi can take on Flygons that aren't using Hidden Power Bug, and Reflect Celebi can even hold its own versus Flygon that do. Cloyster and Gengar both take little damage from Flygon's attacks and can comfortably OHKO back. Be careful of Electric-types that hold Hidden Power Ice, as they can make short work out of Flygon that expect Hidden Power Grass. Intimidate from Salamence and Gyarados can weaken Rock Slide so that Flygon can barely touch them.</p>


    [gp]1/2[/gp]

    EDIT: This has been SCMSed, BE SURE TO INCLUDE THE NECESSARY IVS
  22. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,478
    Worked on top of the version in SCMS. I don't know what's going on with that so whoever uploads it can just implement the check.

    diff (open)
    [Overview]

    <p>Flygon has a unique typing; its resistance to Rock and immunity to Ground and Electric makes it a solid check to Tyranitar, Aerodactyl, Hidden Power Grass Raikou, and others. Its ability also means it's the only Rock-type resist immune to Spikes outside of Claydol. The fact that it gets STAB on Earthquake is also nice; it has very good Attack and Special Attack stats as well. In fact, it has decent stats all around, and can act as a makeshift tank in a pinch. All in all, it is very good Pokemon that can and should be used in the OU metagame. If you use it well, it should bring you a lot of success.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulky
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: Rock Slide
    move 3: Fire Blast
    move 4: Hidden Power Bug / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Naughty
    evs: 188 HP / 180 Atk / 140 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Flygon's typing and ability allows it to check many Pokemon, and this set takes advantage of it. Earthquake is your STAB and is Flygon's most threatening attack. Rock Slide takes out Aerodactyl and Zapdos, both of which are kept in check by Flygon's typing. It's also Flygon's strongest attack against threats like Gengar. Fire Blast keeps Skarmory and Forretress from walling youFlygon, while Hidden Power Bug allows Flygonit to take out Celebi and is Flygon's strongest attack versus Claydol and opposing Flygon. Toxic can be used over Hidden Power Bug for Swampert, which normally keeps Flygon in check. It also severely hinders common switch-ins such as Porygon2 and Claydol.</p>

    <p>With 188 HP EVs, Flygon is never 2HKOed by standard Dragon Dance Tyranitar's Hidden Power Bug, making Flygon a complete counter to that variation of Tyranitar. 140 Speed EVs give Flygon 270 Speed, enough to outspeed Adamant Heracross and max Speed Modest Suicune. If you're wondering why to not alter Flygon's IVs to give it a 31 Speed IV Hidden Power Bug, it's because the 31 Speed variant drops Flygon's Attack and Defense, both of which are needed. A Naughty nature rather than Adamant allows Flygon to 2HKO defensive Skarmory and guarantees a 3HKO on specially defensive Skarmory.</p>

    <p>An alternative spread of Naive with max Attack and Speed can be used for a movre offensive Flygon. This spread always outspeeds Timid Hidden Power Fire Celebi and ties with Timid Jirachi. This spread loses the bulk of the first one for a chance to outspeed most Pokemon, including Timid Suicune.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: Rock Slide
    move 3: Hidden Power Bug
    move 4: Fire Blast
    item: Choice Band
    nature: Naive
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    ivs: 30 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>The strategy here is simple: switch into either another Choice Band user or physical sweeper using Earthquake or Rock Slide, predict what they're going to switch to or if they'll stay in, and attack accordingly. As with all Choice Band users, this set requires good prediction, but has a good payoff. Hidden Power Bug is useful for Grass-types, Celebi in particular, while Fire Blast takes out Skarmory.</p>

    <p>This Flygon will want to maximize its Speed in order to beat Timid Celebi, Salamence, Houndoom, and to tie with Jirachi. Like the previous set, a Naive nature rather than Jolly boosts Flygon's power against Skarmory. Naive is preferred over Hasty in order to continue to check Tyranitar and Aerodactyl more effectively.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Substitute
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Rock Slide
    move 4: Toxic / Hidden Power Bug / Fire Blast
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 220 HP / 148 Atk / 140 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Flygon's typing makes Substitute a great idea for a Pokemon that can set it up so easily. Like the first set, you're mainly looking to rely on Earthquake and Rock Slide, but using more HP to set up a Substitute on weaker attacks. Zapdos's Hidden Power Grass will never break Flygon's Substitute and opposing Flygon will usually fail to break your subits Substitute as well.</p>

    <p>Flygon usually checks itself well, so using Substitute in conjunction with Toxic can take down what might be thereir only answer to you,r Flygon. Toxic also wears down threats such as Swampert, (AC) which makes Flygon an excellent teammate to Pokemon like Tyranitar and Salamence. If Toxic seems too slow-paced for your team, Hidden Power Bug can be used to hits Celebi while Fire Blast prevents Skarmory and Forretress from setting up on yourFlygon's Substitutes. Another option is to partner Flygon with Magneton to deal with Skarmory and Forretress, rather than using a slot for Fire Blast.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>A special set can abuse Dragon Claw, Fire Blast, and Giga Drain to take on defensive teams revolving around Swampert, Salamence, Skarmory, and other pPokemon that might give standard Flygon trouble. Hidden Power Ghost can wreck an incoming Gengar, while Hidden Power Flying OHKOes foolhardy Heracross trying to switch into Earthquake. Screech can force switches and threatens some Pokemon that Flygon couldn't normally take out, giving Flygon a chance to use its wide coverage or beat last Pokemon Snorlax or defensive Suicune.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Ice-type attacks are usually the surest way to deal with Flygon. Claydol and bulky Pokemon with Hidden Power Ice are very safe counters to Flygonit. Porygon2 can trace Levitate to evade Earthquake and is weak to none of Flygon's attacks. Swampert, Milotic, and Suicune can come in reliably on anything but a Choice Band-boosted Earthquake—which doesn't OHKO regardless—and use Ice Beam on Flygon. Heracross and Skarmory can deal with Flygon lacking Fire Blast, and can still survive a hit and force it out even if Flygon does carry it.</p>

    <p>Celebi can take on Flygons that aren't using Hidden Power Bug, and Reflect Celebi can even hold its own versus Flygon that do. Cloyster and Gengar both take little damage from Flygon's attacks and can comfortably OHKO back. Be careful of Electric-types that hold Hidden Power Ice, as they can make short work out of Flygon that expect Hidden Power Grass. Intimidate from Salamence and Gyarados can weaken Rock Slide so that Flygon can barely touch them.</p>



    c/p (open)

    [Overview]

    <p>Flygon has a unique typing; its resistance to Rock and immunity to Ground and Electric makes it a solid check to Tyranitar, Aerodactyl, Hidden Power Grass Raikou, and others. Its ability also means it's the only Rock-type resist immune to Spikes outside of Claydol. The fact that it gets STAB on Earthquake is also nice; it has very good Attack and Special Attack stats as well. In fact, it has decent stats all around, and can act as a makeshift tank in a pinch. All in all, it is very good Pokemon that can and should be used in the OU metagame. If you use it well, it should bring you a lot of success.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulky
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: Rock Slide
    move 3: Fire Blast
    move 4: Hidden Power Bug / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Naughty
    evs: 188 HP / 180 Atk / 140 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Flygon's typing and ability allows it to check many Pokemon, and this set takes advantage of it. Earthquake is your STAB and is Flygon's most threatening attack. Rock Slide takes out Aerodactyl and Zapdos, both of which are kept in check by Flygon's typing. It's also Flygon's strongest attack against threats like Gengar. Fire Blast keeps Skarmory and Forretress from walling Flygon, while Hidden Power Bug allows it to take out Celebi and is Flygon's strongest attack versus Claydol and opposing Flygon. Toxic can be used over Hidden Power Bug for Swampert, which normally keeps Flygon in check. It also severely hinders common switch-ins such as Porygon2 and Claydol.</p>

    <p>With 188 HP EVs, Flygon is never 2HKOed by standard Dragon Dance Tyranitar's Hidden Power Bug, making Flygon a complete counter to that variation of Tyranitar. 140 Speed EVs give Flygon 270 Speed, enough to outspeed Adamant Heracross and max Speed Modest Suicune. If you're wondering why to not alter Flygon's IVs to give it a 31 Speed IV Hidden Power Bug, it's because the 31 Speed variant drops Flygon's Attack and Defense, both of which are needed. A Naughty nature rather than Adamant allows Flygon to 2HKO defensive Skarmory and guarantees a 3HKO on specially defensive Skarmory.</p>

    <p>An alternative spread of Naive with max Attack and Speed can be used for a more offensive Flygon. This spread always outspeeds Timid Hidden Power Fire Celebi and ties with Timid Jirachi. This spread loses the bulk of the first one for a chance to outspeed most Pokemon, including Timid Suicune.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: Rock Slide
    move 3: Hidden Power Bug
    move 4: Fire Blast
    item: Choice Band
    nature: Naive
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    ivs: 30 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>The strategy here is simple: switch into either another Choice Band user or physical sweeper using Earthquake or Rock Slide, predict what they're going to switch to or if they'll stay in, and attack accordingly. As with all Choice Band users, this set requires good prediction, but has a good payoff. Hidden Power Bug is useful for Grass-types, Celebi in particular, while Fire Blast takes out Skarmory.</p>

    <p>This Flygon will want to maximize its Speed in order to beat Timid Celebi, Salamence, Houndoom, and to tie with Jirachi. Like the previous set, a Naive nature rather than Jolly boosts Flygon's power against Skarmory. Naive is preferred over Hasty in order to check Tyranitar and Aerodactyl more effectively.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Substitute
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Rock Slide
    move 4: Toxic / Hidden Power Bug / Fire Blast
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 220 HP / 148 Atk / 140 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Flygon's typing makes Substitute a great idea for a Pokemon that can set it up so easily. Like the first set, you're mainly looking to rely on Earthquake and Rock Slide, but using more HP to set up a Substitute on weaker attacks. Zapdos's Hidden Power Grass will never break Flygon's Substitute and opposing Flygon will usually fail to break its Substitute as well.</p>

    <p>Flygon usually checks itself well, so using Substitute in conjunction with Toxic can take down what might be their only answer to your Flygon. Toxic also wears down threats such as Swampert, which makes Flygon an excellent teammate to Pokemon like Tyranitar and Salamence. If Toxic seems too slow-paced for your team, Hidden Power Bug can be used to hit Celebi while Fire Blast prevents Skarmory and Forretress from setting up on Flygon's Substitutes. Another option is to partner Flygon with Magneton to deal with Skarmory and Forretress, rather than using a slot for Fire Blast.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>A special set can use Dragon Claw, Fire Blast, and Giga Drain to take on defensive teams revolving around Swampert, Salamence, Skarmory, and other Pokemon that might give standard Flygon trouble. Hidden Power Ghost can wreck an incoming Gengar, while Hidden Power Flying OHKOes foolhardy Heracross trying to switch into Earthquake. Screech can force switches and threatens some Pokemon that Flygon couldn't normally take out, giving Flygon a chance to use its wide coverage or beat last Pokemon Snorlax or defensive Suicune.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Ice-type attacks are usually the surest way to deal with Flygon. Claydol and bulky Pokemon with Hidden Power Ice are very safe counters to it. Porygon2 can trace Levitate to evade Earthquake and is weak to none of Flygon's attacks. Swampert, Milotic, and Suicune can come in reliably on anything but a Choice Band-boosted Earthquake—which doesn't OHKO regardless—and use Ice Beam on Flygon. Heracross and Skarmory can deal with Flygon lacking Fire Blast, and can still survive a hit and force it out even if Flygon does carry it.</p>

    <p>Celebi can take on Flygon that aren't using Hidden Power Bug, and Reflect Celebi can even hold its own versus Flygon that do. Cloyster and Gengar both take little damage from Flygon's attacks and can comfortably OHKO back. Be careful of Electric-types that hold Hidden Power Ice, as they can make short work out of Flygon that expect Hidden Power Grass. Intimidate from Salamence and Gyarados can weaken Rock Slide so that Flygon can barely touch them.</p>


    [gp]2/2[/gp]

    EDIT: ok this is cached on site

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