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Flygon (OU Analysis - GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by shrang, Feb 5, 2012.

  1. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    Flygon may have fallen from grace, but that doesn't mean it still doesn't have a few tricks up its sleeve!


    [​IMG]
    http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/flygon

    [Overview]

    <p>Flygon is probably one of the biggest victims of BW's power creep. With three new powerful OU or BL Dragon-types introduced, upgrades to Dragonite, and the demotion of Salamence, Latias, and Latios from Ubers, the competition was just far too great, and Flygon fell from very high OU in DPP to being a staple on BW UU teams. The introduction of Team Preview also made the "scouting" job redundant. However, this is not to mean that Flygon is bad in OU, as it still has its distinct advantages over the other Dragon-types. Its excellent offensive typing, Levitate granting virtual immunity to all hazards, immunity to Thunder Wave, and a decent Speed stat still make it very attractive in its own way. However, even with these fabulous toys, Flygon is still very much on the "weak" end of the OU spectrum, and needs to take full advantage of these toys; otherwise, you're better off using a better dragon.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Outrage
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: U-turn
    move 4: Fire Blast / Stone Edge
    item: Choice Band
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While Flygon's Attack stat of 100 is below average this generation, it can remedy this by slapping on a Choice Band, boosting it to more respectable levels. The upside of using Flygon is its fantastic offensive coverage, as between Outrage and Earthquake, Flygon hits 676 out of 680 of the total Pokemon for neutral or better damage. It doesn't end here, as Flygon can fully take advantage of its immunity to hazards to hold momentum with U-turn. Flygon's greatest advantage over its newfound rival Landorus is its access to Dragon STAB. Fire Blast is preferred in the final slot just so Skarmory thinks twice about switching in, as Fire Blast 2HKOs it in neutral weather. Note that apart from 2HKOing Skarmory, Fire Blast is very weak and is easily set up on. Stone Edge can be used in the final slot to attain "EdgeQuake" coverage and to net an OHKO on Volcarona.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs are as simple as you can get. Max Attack and Speed provide Flygon with maximum offensive potential. The nature is a bit more controversial, however, as Flygon really wants an Adamant nature to reach certain 2HKOs—such as Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn after one layer of Spikes damage. It also greatly appreciates any boost in power it can nab in general. However, a Jolly nature allows Flygon to take full advantage of its superior Speed when compared to the new dragons, and could potentially decide a game.</p>

    <p>Skarmory, physically defensive Ferrothorn, and Bronzong can take hits from Flygon all day, although the former two need rain to be able to cushion Fire Blast. Physically bulky walls, such as Slowbro, Gliscor, Tangrowth, Porygon2, and Cresselia, can take Flygon's attacks and retaliate reasonably well. It is for this reason that Swords Dance Scizor is an excellent teammate to Flygon. It can set up on Ferrothorn, Bronzong, Porygon2, Tangrowth, and Cresselia, as well as Slowbro that lack a Fire-type move. Lucario works in a similar fashion, although it cannot defeat Cresselia. As an Outrage-spamming Pokemon, Magnezone is naturally a good teammate to remove opposing Steel-types. As for Slowbro and Gliscor, Rotom-W makes short work of both of them, while being a good "VoltTurn" partner for Flygon. Grass-types such as Celebi, Virizion, Rotom-C, and Shaymin also take them out without much trouble, although Virizion won't enjoy Thunder Wave or Toxic from Slowbro, nor do any of them enjoy taking Acrobatics from Flying Gem Gliscor. Latios and Hydreigon do not enjoy getting paralyzed by Thunder Wave either, but they can easily switch into Slowbro and Gliscor to fire off deadly Draco Meteors.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Mixed Lure
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Fire Blast
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: U-turn / Roost
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Rash / Naive
    evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While this set may appear to be outclassed by Salamence, who boasts much higher attacking stats, Flygon has a few unique qualities that distance itself from the big blue salamander. Firstly, Flygon resists Stealth Rock, which allows it to switch in more frequently than Salamence, while secondly, it is immune to Thunder Wave. The biggest reason to use Flygon, however, is the fact that physical walls that neglect their Special Defense are much more likely to switch into Flygon than Salamence, only to meet their doom. Salamence's high base 110 Special Attack would make Pokemon such as Gliscor and Slowbro more hesitant to switch in. Flygon's base 80, however, is completely off the radar. However, while it may appear low, Flygon's Special Attack is just enough to severely cripple the main physical walls in the tier; with a Life Orb and the combination of Draco Meteor and Fire Blast, Flygon is still OHKOing or 2HKOing most of them. Draco Meteor is the bread and butter of this set, as it easily puts Gliscor, Slowbro, Hippowdon, and Quagsire out of commission, and this allows another physical sweeper to sweep much more easily. Fire Blast OHKOs Skarmory and Ferrothorn while 2HKOing standard Bronzong. Earthquake is chosen over Earth Power because it hits Tyranitar, Specially Defensive Heatran, and Jirachi harder than Earth Power does. U-turn is preferred in the last slot because it severely damages Celebi while retaining momentum. Roost can be used for recovery if you desire it, although Flygon's frailness makes it bit hard to pull off a successful Roost.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Here are some damage calculations to illustrate Flygon's ability to remove physical walls:</p>

    <ul class=”damage_calculation”>
    <li>Draco Meteor vs 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 84.18% - 99.44%</li>
    <li>Draco Meteor vs 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 71.83% - 84.77%</li>
    <li>Draco Meteor vs 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 72.86% - 85.95%</li>
    <li>Draco Meteor vs 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 84.01% - 99.24%</li>
    <li>Fire Blast vs 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 108.38% - 127.54%</li>
    <li>Fire Blast vs 252 HP / 92 SpD Sassy Bronzong: 65.09% - 76.92%</li>
    </ul>

    <p>The EVs used allow Flygon to outspeed any Pokemon up to base 100 Speed that are not boosted. A Naive nature can be used instead, but the power lost is considerable, especially when low damage rolls could mean that Gliscor with Protect can avoid being 2HKOed by Draco Meteor. Outrage is another option to put in the last slot, as it's still a powerful STAB attack that could hurt, even from 237 Attack.</p>

    <p>Because this set is aiming to lure out and destroy physical walls, sweepers that appreciate their removal are good teammates for Flygon. Swords Dance Lucario, Terrakion, Dragonite, Salamence, Haxorus, Swords Dance Virizion, and Landorus can all sweep with much more confidence when physical walls are out of the way. Lucario gets a special mention because it resists Flygon's two weaknesses, while Landorus shares common switch-ins with Flygon, which means its counters are easily smoked out by Flygon.</p>

    <p>Specially bulky Pokemon that aren't physically frail are generally good switch-ins to mixed Flygon. Jellicent can easily take a Draco Meteor and Recover off any damage. Deoxys-D, Porygon2, and Chansey all have huge overall defenses which prevent Flygon from breaking through them. Due to this, Choice Band Tyranitar is an excellent teammate for Flygon because of its ability to check all of the aforementioned threats. Gengar threatens all of them with its powerful Shadow Ball and Focus Blast, although it needs be careful to avoid switching into Jellicent's own Shadow Ball. Vaporeon can also take hits from Mixed Flygon without much problem and use Wish to heal itself. Bulky Grass-types such as Virizion and Celebi can set up on Vaporeon quite easily. Toxic Spikes also makes life for those walls difficult. Forretress and Tentacruel can easily set up Toxic Spikes while resisting Flygon's Ice-type weakness, and in Forretress's case, Dragon-type weakness as well. Since Flygon is weak to both Ice- and Dragon-type moves, bulky Water- and Steel-types are useful teammates. Apart from Tentacruel, a Jellicent or Vaporeon of your own can absorb Ice-type attacks aimed at Flygon, while Steel-types such as Scizor, Metagross, and Bronzong are good at switching into Dragon-type attacks.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Outrage
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: U-turn
    move 4: Stone Edge / Fire Blast
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Flygon's good Speed stat and excellent type coverage makes it a workable Choice Scarf user in OU. It is able to revenge kill many threats, such as Dragon Dance Dragonite and Haxorus, and Choice Scarf Hydreigon; it also can Speed tie with +1 Volcarona or Salamence at the very worst. It still takes hardly anything from entry hazards, is immune to Thunder Wave, and can use U-turn to keep momentum. What sets Flygon apart from Landorus, the other Ground-type Choice Scarfer with U-turn, is its access to STAB Outrage. With its excellent pair of STABs, Flygon is possibly one of the most efficient late-game cleaners in the game due to the number of Pokemon it can hit. It tends to force the opponent into hanging onto their more defensive Pokemon and lose offensive momentum. As such, Choice Scarf Flygon is useful in all stages of the match, as it can keep offensive momentum in the early-game with U-turn, revenge kill threats mid-game, and clean up late-game.</p>

    <p>Outrage and Earthquake are obviously Flygon's two excellent STAB attacks. U-turn allows Flygon to maintain momentum for the team and force switches to rack up entry hazard damage. Stone Edge is preferred in the last moveslot, as it allows Flygon to revenge kill Volcarona. However, if the fiery moth of no concern, Fire Blast can be used to give Skarmory a nasty surprise upon switch-in.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>ThunderPunch can be used in the final slot to revenge kill Gyarados, but is rather useless otherwise. Dragon Claw can also be used to avoid locking Flygon into Outrage, but Flygon is already very weak and really needs the power that Outrage provides. Although Flygon desperately needs power given by an Adamant nature, there are way too many Choice Scarf users that have between 448 and 492 Speed that Flygon can defeat, such as Haxorus, Hydreigon, and Kyurem. This is why only a Jolly nature is recommended.</p>

    <p>As a revenge killer, Flygon is pretty self-sufficient. However, there are Pokemon that can make its late-game cleaning job a lot easier. As Flygon is very much on the weak side, it appreciates the weakening of bulky Pokemon so it can just swat them aside later. Removing Steel-types also helps its cause, making Magnezone a fantastic teammate to Flygon. Not only does it resist both of Flygon's weaknesses, but it can also use its Magnet Pull ability to trap and remove Steel-types. Strong wall-breakers such as Choice Band Haxorus and Swords Dance Terrakion can also punch holes for Flygon to rampage through later. Flygon likes cleaning up in the late-game, so Spikes can whittle opponents down into its KO range. With a layer of Spikes and Stealth Rock down, Pokemon such as Eviolite Chansey are much more nervous about switching into Flygon's Outrage. Ferrothorn is the premier Spiker of OU due to its excellent bulk and typing, and it also possesses good synergy with Flygon. Skarmory and Forretress are also good Spikes users. As for spinblockers to keep the Spikes down, Gengar is an excellent offensive spinblocker, while Jellicent, Sableye, Dusclops can fit onto bulkier teams. Choice Scarf Rotom is another good spinblocker who can also form a "VoltTurn" combo with Flygon.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Screech Flygon was a decent set in DPP because of its ability to force switches. However, since the power creep of BW, this set isn't very viable any more, while U-turn forces switches anyway. Flygon can use Toxic, Earthquake, and Roost to try and stall, but its general frailty means it can't stall for very long, while its common counters, Gliscor and Skarmory, are immune to both Toxic and Earthquake. Flygon has access to Hone Claws as a boosting move, but every other Dragon-type in OU does a better job at boosting. Finally, Flygon is a rather interesting Shell Smash recipient. While it is relatively frail and doesn't resist any form of priority, its virtual immunity to hazards and Thunder Wave, as well as fantastic type coverage, can make it hard to stop.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>In general, if you want a full counter to Flygon, look no further than excessively bulky Pokemon such as Cresselia, Deoxys-D, Eviolite Chansey and Porygon2. Flygon's low attacking stats can never hope to break their thick hides. Bronzong, Skarmory, physically defensive Ferrothorn, and Forretress can take everything from Choice Band Flygon, although the latter three need to watch out for a well-timed Fire Blast. Bronzong can easily take Flygon out with Gyro Ball or Hidden Power Ice, while the other three can set up entry hazards at will. Physical walls such as Slowbro and Tangrowth can also switch into Choice Band Flygon and threaten with Scald and Giga Drain, respectively. However, both of them do not like being U-turned on. As for the mixed set, bulky Water-types with access to recovery, such as Jellicent, Vaporeon, and Milotic, can tank hits from Flygon all day, while threatening with nasty moves such as Scald, Ice Beam, or even a status move.</p>

    <p>Since Flygon is frail by this generation's standards, it is quite easy to take advantage of this and just hit Flygon very hard. Strong priority can take down Flygon very quickly. Ice Shard from Mamoswine and Weavile easily OHKO it, while Donphan can 2HKO with an Ice Shard of its own. Choice Band Scizor is easily chewing off over 65% of Flygon's health with Bullet Punch, while Choice Band Dragonite is doing a similar amount with ExtremeSpeed. Pokemon that are faster than Flygon can easily revenge kill it. Terrakion completely annihilates Flygon with Close Combat, Starmie can OHKO with Ice Beam, Landorus and Virizion with Hidden Power Ice, and Latios with any of its Dragon-type moves. Beware, however, that Flygon may be using a Choice Scarf, so these Pokemon need a Choice Scarf of their own to outspeed Flygon.</p>
  2. Danilo

    Danilo
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    I've used the "Lure" set to some success, I think it's def good in OU. I really really really really hate the Choice Band set, though. It always disappointed the hell out of me. I really only think that the "Lure" set is viable.
  3. LighTz911

    LighTz911

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    Yeah, what Sir said. I'd rather use Choice Band Terrakion, Dragonite, or to an extent, Landorus over a Choice Band Flygon. I personally think it lacks the raw power the other Choice Banders has to offer as they could muscle through Gliscor, Donphan, Slowbro, Trangrowth, etc. I guess it could work because it has U-turn as well as a resistance to Rock.
  4. WhiteMagic

    WhiteMagic

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    I've used Flygon many-a-time on Shoddy Battle before coming here and I support Sir in his opinion. CB doesn't work. Flygon needs freedom to move and CB doesn't allow it.
  5. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    Yeah, CB's main niche is Flygon's dual STABs, as well as access to U-turn. The only other Dragon-type that gets it is Hydreigon, and CB Hydra is kind of weird and not worth using. The main reason I included a CB set is that if people start wising up to the lure set and instead starting switching stuff like Jellicent into Flygon instead of Gliscor, you can punish them with a CB Outrage (easy 2HKO) and punish them for that.
  6. LighTz911

    LighTz911

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    People will probably find out you're Choiced if you don't have Life Orb recoil, though.

    Choice Band Hydreigon is weird, but if Flygon can do it, why not Hydreigon? Almost no base positive 100s use max anymore (besides Jirachi and maybe Mence) and Hydreigon has just as good resistances and the same ability along with U-turn. Not to mention, Hydreigon has 5 more base Attack than Flygon. But yeah, I don't think either one of them is good...
  7. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    In the CB set, i think you should slash Stone Edge with Fire Blast/Dragon Claw. Stone Edge hits Gyarados and Cloyster harder than any other of your moves and is also a good move to use when you don't want to be locked into Outrage and your opponent has a ground immune poke.

    Also i think that you should make U-turn the third move. U-turn is usually used much more than the coverage move, since bringing a counter to your counter is much more useful than trying to kill alone your counter. This and the coverage moves (Fire Blast/Stone Edge) are extremely situational.
  8. Mynism

    Mynism

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    Why would the Band set be "better" than the Scarf one ? I can definitely see Haxorus or even Salemence being better in a CB set while I think Flygon advantages are more of a Scarfed mon. Landorus ? Flygon has an arguably better typing, resistance to SR and the dragon typing (with the powerful stabbed Outrage that comes with it) making him able to revenge more efficiently the likes of Rotom-W, Dragonite, Haxorus and Hydreigon. It can also obviously revenge the other things Landorus do and is a better check to many things thanks to his VERY important Fire resistance and Water neutrality. It's useless to mention it has a better movepool, giving him more dangerous moves to play with, like Fire Blast.

    So yea, what I mean is that Flygon can pull out a very good Scarf set and be -sometime- more dangerous than Landorus.
  9. Danilo

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    I don't think it's fair to say that Flygon is better at a scarf set than Landorus. Flygon's base attack isn't much, while Landorus has a massive base attack, and Sand Force to make him hit even harder. Flygon's main advantages over Landorus is an resistance to Stealth Rock, and Dragon typing. But other than that, Flygon isn't pulling off a scarf set better than Landorus.
  10. Mynism

    Mynism

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    Its preferences. Anyway, what I was trying to say was just than a Flygon Scarf set wasn't totally outclassed and had a place in this analysis
  11. Danilo

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    I KIND of agree since having a fast dragon stab is good in this meta. other than that, it's totally outclassed by landy...
  12. Chillarmy

    Chillarmy

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    Bleh, posting from a phone is a pain, but having used Flygon in OU for a good while, I'd like to toss in some input:

    Landorus doesn't resist SR, nor can it mow down Skarm with Fire Blast. IMO, that's more than enough to warrant a Scarf set for Flygon.

    STAB Earthquake means that Jirachi can't afford to stay in and fish for paralysis; Fire Blast means that even Skarm has to be careful about switching in; Ground/Dragon typing gives Flygon many more chances to switch in safely and tank more hits.

    Regarding the first set; slash U-turn with Roost. With Dory gone, Flygon doesn't have as many opportunities to take advantage of Roost. Flygon's usually better off just going for a KO or switching out in order to properly feign a Choice set (from my experiences, Jirachi, Heatran, etc get ballsy stay in, expecting a U-turn instead of Earthquake, making predicting [insert physically bulky Pokemon] switching in much more difficult). U-turn lets Flygon pick off a weakened Celebi and participate in (retarded) VoltTurn cores -- giving Flygon some utility even after it lures something. If you don't agree that U-turn is good enough to slash onto the main set, then at least give it a shoutout in AC.

    As for the EV spread, I personally prefer 56 Atk / 200 SAtk / 252 Spd with a Naive nature. Beating HP Fire Celebi, Specs Sazandora (no one loves Jolly Haxorus =/), and tying with Volcarona, Mence, etc is just too important, imo, for a bit of extra power. 56 Attack EVs ensures that Flygon can OHKO specially defensive Jirachi on average with a combination of Draco Meteor and Earthquake; the rest is pumped into Special Attack so Flygon doesn't lose out on any notable KOs.

    Also, mention Dragon Fang / Expert Belt > LO. It's definitely useful if one wants Flygon to act as a lure for Gliscor, Rotom-W, or anything that would love to switch into a seemingly Choice-locked EQ. Yeah, Flygon's losing a lot of power in Earthquake, but Draco Meteor will still smash stuff up.
  13. LighTz911

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    Isn't Flygon too weak without it, though? I doubt either one of them secures any important KOs, but the raw power LO grants is needed.
  14. Chillarmy

    Chillarmy

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    Flygon still 2HKOes Jirachi and Skarm with Earthquake and Fire Blast, respectively. Either item will help the player using Flygon make better predictions, which, while not good enough material to deserve a slash on on the main set, is worthy of at least a small mention. Eh, just something to consider, really.
  15. asterat

    asterat

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    instead of fire blast use fire punch to take advantage of the boost from choice band and the EVS
  16. Danilo

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    Now way jose. Fire Blast is needed to 2hko Skarm. Fire Punch can't do that.
  17. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    Running Naive is really pushing it in my opinion. Flygon really needs that +ve SpA. Otherwise, if you're running close to minimum damage rolls, you lose the 2HKO on Gliscor if it carries Protect, which kind of defeats the purpose of running that set in the first place. Dropping 52 SpA may be fine, but I really think Rash is the way to (I guess I could slash Naive in). Besides, the majority of Base 100s and below run neutral nature these days anyway (Volcarona needs the power, DD Naive Mence is uncommon these days, Jirachi hardly ever runs max Speed, +ve nature or not, Celebi is the same). Slashing U-turn in is fine, though.

    About a Scarf set, my main gripe about it is that 1) it's too weak, and 2) even with your Dragon-STAB, Landorus revenge kills everything Flygon can revenge kill already and more anyway. From an offensive standpoint, having Outrage and Fire Blast is great for Flygon, but as a revenge killer, those things aren't as important. I mean, you're not trying to sweep or hit really hard with Scarf Flygon, because it can't. You're using it to revenge kill things, which, with 299 Attack, probably isn't good enough in this meta, with bulkier Pokemon running around all over the shop.
  18. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    Hm, are any QC members looking at or testing this? Input would be appreciated.
  19. Harsha

    Harsha Rest In Beats
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    I have to say I disagree with everyone's opinions and agree with shrang; I really enjoy using Flygon as an underrated VoltTurner. It's Banded set can be useful, so I think it could go on (things it has over other Dragons is resist to SR, and a STAB EQ). Scarf Flygon is also pretty cool. I've never tried the lure set but it seems interesting. I think it's actually a viable Mon due to its typing and good STABs.
  20. Juanca529

    Juanca529

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    i think expert belt could also be consider to fake a choice item when using u turn instead of roost,so people think ur a mixed scarf set
  21. Chou Toshio

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    @Landorus v/ Flygon-- Skarf Landy certainly has lots of perks. It's bulkier (a bit), it has a lot more power, and honestly the difference in damage from Stealth Rock is pretty negligible. You could even use HP Fire to beat the shnap out of Skarm if you wanted to, thanks to Landy's much superior Special Attack stat to compensate for HP Fire's pathetic base power.

    To me the biggest difference between the two is Landy's lack of any good move to compliment EQ. If only the thing had an effin' STAB Flying attack. But no, the best we get is an Un-STAB'd Stone Edge that gets a -decent- boost, but only in sand.

    STAB Outrage has reliable power, accuracy, and coverage-- plus SE hits against other dragons, notably DD Dragonite and Haxorus (and Salamence to a lesser extent because of speed tie).

    What made Scarf Flygon so effective in DPP was not the fact that it was a revenge killer-- but that in addition to some revenge killing and pivoting against T-Wave/Trick/SE/Fire Blast/etc., it literally spelled GAME OVER for any weakened team that lost all its Ground OR Dragon resists. Throw in some spikes and a magnezone and Scarf Flygon could often spell GAME OVER--something that lure Flygon could never boast. This potential to sweep, even without setting up, is what made Scarf Flygon the standard (and it still is in UU).

    Against Scarf Flygon, players have to be constantly wary to hang on to both resists, and/or keep their Pokemon healthy enough to deal with Flygon throughout the match, because thanks to hazard resistance/sand immunity/t-wave immunity, Flygon is much more likely to stick out the length of the match.

    BW's Pokemon are a whole lot tougher, so it can take a lot more effort to break the enemy team to the point where Flygon sweeps-- that doesn't mean it's impossible, and Scarf Flygon still does stuff even when it's not sweeping (this dual utility is its strength).

    Now, Scarf Landorus has a similar toughness against hazards. It has arguably more overall power as well...

    ...does it share Scarf Flygon's ability to reliably check mate weakened teams?

    ...well no, not really.

    Stone Edge's power, coverage, and accuracy, even with a Sand Force boost, just can't measure up to a STAB Outrage.

    Setting up the check mate takes a lot more effort when you have to get rid of enemy Ground and Fighting types in addition to the Steel Types. Besides, you can't plan on sweeping and finishing your opponent with a 75% accurate move that's only really hitting strong in sand anyway.

    If you have found some magic way of guaranteeing getting rid of all the enemy flying/levitators to go for an EQ sweep, good for you-- but it's not the same as just throwing in a magnezone and a CB Haxorus to beat steel types in and then letting Flygon do its thing.

    The fact that Flygon can sweep with STAB Dragon or Ground makes its threat unique from something Hydreigon or Landorus could do.

    I don't know-- it just seems to me like there are a lot of superior Wall Breakers, but Scarf Flygon's just got qualities that remain unique to it. Granted I barely play OU at all, so keep that in mind. These are just strengths of Scarf Flygon that I think remain unchanged in BW.
  22. dragonboy52

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    I think Prankster Will-O-Wisp Sableye should be in the counters section.
  23. Chou Toshio

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    ^Sableye is switching into EQ's and Outrages...? no... besides, the main set listed is a special attacker with Outrage...
  24. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    I don't think Flygon has a place in BW OU. The first set is clearly outclassed by Dragonite, Hydreigon and Salamence. Yes, the advantages it brings to the table are nice, but they aren't enough to justify using it over the big 3... ever. In fact, Hydreigon shares that Spikes / Tspikes immunity, so there's even less of a reason to use Flygon. CB is strictly "bad" and shouldn't see use over CB Mence / Dnite / Haxorus / etc. Choiced Band Fire Blast is terrible; its complete set up fodder to most of the threats in the metagame.

    The second set is also bad. Flygon looks decent on paper, but it sucks in practice. I've tried to make Flygon work in the past, but boils down to 2 things:

    1. the metagame is too bulky for it
    2. Outclassed by the other dragons

    Sorry about this, but Flygon gets a no from me.

    QC REJECTED (1/3)
  25. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    This... I kind of agree with. However, it's not really weaker than stuff like Scrafty, or Virizion. I mean, let's just compare it to DD Scrafty. Yes, Scrafty is bulkier, but Flygon is faster and stronger initially (I'm talking CB) while having arguably better STABs (although Scrafty's are excellent too).

    This... I don't agree with.

    I've stated clearly why it isn't outclassed by Salamence. Gliscor would never switch into Mence unless whoever's using Gliscor doesn't know his stuff. Dragonite, maybe, Hydreigon, hell no. Sure, if the lure set becomes popular, people would be wary of switching into Flygon, but when would Flygon ever become popular enough in OU for people to notice?

    I disagree with Flygon being "outclassed" by the other Dragons. What is it outclassed by? Power isn't everything. Which other Dragon-type in OU can spam both STAB Dragon and Ground attacks (which hits you know, 676/680 Pokemon for neutral or super effective damage) since Garchomp's banning? Which one of them can do it while keeping momentum with U-turn? I don't think I've ever seen Choice Band Hydreigon before, and I don't I'd want to. CB Haxorus has a shitty Speed tier, while lacking STAB EQ. CB Dragonite is even slower, while it and CB Mence are weak to Stealth Rock, which are inherently bad for Choice users. Sure they are stronger, bulkier and seemingly better, but Flygon is better at keeping its head down and doing its job (U-turning, Outrage/Earthquaking, etc). Choice Band Fire Blast shouldn't even be an argument since it's only there so you can take a pot shot at Skarmorys coming (which 2HKOs).

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