1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Flying into the Sun (Peaked 2100+) -- 2k RMT

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Jukain, Aug 22, 2013.

  1. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    4,019
    [​IMG]

    Opening Act

    Hi! I'm Jukain, and this is my 2k RMT. I remember when I thought I would never make it to 1k -- 2k is just unbelievable. This team started as actually an updated version of my 1k RMT, which was also a sun team, but it is now way different than anything I've ever run before. This team is fairly new, but I like it more than anything else I have (well, my other good team was already RMT'd in the form of a double RMT posted by Electrolyte). It's an offensive sun team featuring some interesting Pokemon. There's also some shoutouts at the end! Without further adieu, let's get on to the team (no teambuilding because there isn't enough to talk about).

    Line Up

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    I've Got Magic Tails, k?

    [​IMG]

    Ninetales @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Spd
    IVs: 0 Atk
    Timid Nature
    - Flamethrower
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Sunny Day
    - Substitute

    Possible changes: I've considered running Roar > Substitute despite liking this set so much, as it helps with SubCM Latias a lot. However, it has trouble setting up, so I'm not too worried about it. And besides -- if it's SubCM, it doesn't have Psyshock, which means it can't OHKO Venusaur without a lot of boosts. Toxic > Will-O-Wisp is also something I've considered, as Rotom-W can prove to be a bitch, as considering Venusaur is my revenge killer and cleaner, I can't switch it in overly much. However, Venusaur is an okay option, as it can switch in, take a hit, and predict the next switch-in at no cost to itself. Heck, if sun is up and the opponent lacks a weather inducer (or an alive one at least), then I can set up Growth and sweep.

    One Nasty Bug

    [​IMG]

    Volcarona @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flame Body
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    IVs: 0 Atk
    Timid Nature
    - Quiver Dance
    - Fire Blast
    - Bug Buzz
    - Giga Drain

    Possible changes: HP Rock is something I've considered for opposing Volcarona/Salamence/Dragonite/Gyarados, which are big threats. Thoughts on this?

    Spin Around, Spin Around - Don't Stop

    [​IMG]

    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 248 HP / 32 Def / 4 SAtk / 224 Spd
    IVs: 0 Atk
    Timid Nature
    - Recover
    - Scald
    - Psyshock
    - Rapid Spin

    Possible changes: Nothing -- everything on this set is needed.

    Got Bud?

    [​IMG]

    Venusaur @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 72 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 180 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
    - Growth
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power Fire
    - Sludge Bomb

    Possible changes: I've considered running Modest for that power and even tested it out, but Timid is too important for those Scarf Latis and musketeers. HP Ice is also something I've considered for Dragons. Thoughts on HP Ice?

    You're Trapped and Never Getting Away

    [​IMG]

    Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    IVs: 0 SAtk
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Stealth Rock
    - Reversal

    Possible changes: No.

    Sweet, Sweet Revenge

    [​IMG]

    Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    IVs: 0 SAtk
    - Iron Head
    - Ice Punch
    - U-turn
    - Healing Wish

    Possible changes: I need every move on the set, so no.​

    Closing Scene

    Well, that's my team! I like it, but it's not perfect, so suggest improvements! In particular, I'm pretty Double Dance Landorus-T weak. Hang on, there's some shoutouts!

    Importable

    You can steal it or test it to work out the kinks, idk.

    import (open)

    Ninetales @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Flamethrower
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Sunny Day
    - Substitute

    Volcarona @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flame Body
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Fire Blast
    - Bug Buzz
    - Giga Drain
    - Quiver Dance

    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 248 HP / 32 Def / 4 SAtk / 224 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Recover
    - Scald
    - Psyshock
    - Rapid Spin

    Venusaur @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 72 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 180 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
    - Growth
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Sludge Bomb

    Dugtrio (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    IVs: 0 SAtk
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Sucker Punch
    - Reversal

    Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    IVs: 0 SAtk
    - Iron Head
    - Ice Punch
    - U-turn
    - Stealth Rock


    Shoutouts

    Well, this is my 2k, so I guess I should do some shoutouts...

    @GatoDelFuego -- Best cat of fire this world has ever seen. In all seriousness, get on IRC more! You're great~

    @skylight -- You are very, very irritating.

    @Electrolyte -- WHY DID YOU LEAVE :x gl in real life man, and thanks for the great times.

    @Don Honchkrorleone, @CBTerrakion, @Dcae, @Corkscrew, @cxinlee, @Hulavuta, @Superpowerdude and probably other people I can't think of -- Three words. Dogbirds. Are. Strongth.

    @Funkasaurus -- Powerful tutor n_n

    @Rohail and @Ender -- Active GP members. That's like an oxymoron. In all seriousness, you guys are great and are fellow number alumnuses n_n

    @blitzlefan @Golden Piloswine @tikidude @BattleStar -- Thanks guys, it's been fun. I really gotta hop on Skype ;x

    @Redew -- The marching band music stuff you send me is gr8 n_n

    Yes, I suck at these.

    I really do.

    If I forgot you, please feel free to shoot me in the face.
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2013
  2. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego This is what is technically known as a Firecat
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,975
    Fixed for you

    Aww @Jukain you make me feel so special <3
    Redew and Hulavuta like this.
  3. Trevorpoke42

    Trevorpoke42

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2013
    Messages:
    64
    Hey Jukain, cool sun team, but there's some playstyles to this team that will be difficult to play around, such as Sand Stall and Weatherless Offense. The reason for this is because Starmie is going to have a very hard time to Spin because of Ghost types such as Jellicent and maybe even Gengar (If it's scarfed), especially when they are prepared with a fast pursuit trapper (Scarf Tar). But you will definitely have a problem facing Sand Stall since as soon as Hippo or Tar sets up rocks, they could potentially be there to stay throughout a long time of the match, if not all of it. Because of this I suggest switching Starmie for a Rocky Helmet Xatu. Xatu really is helpful on Sun teams, as you can play extremely reckless with it, while putting your opponents into a checkmate position for something like Tyranitar or Heatran, because of the trapping capabilities that Dugtrio has. Xatu also baits out many threats to this team the main ones being Heatran and Tyranitar but also stuff like Bulky water types such as Jellicent or Politoed, allowing Venusaur to have an easier time to set up. Having Xatu also helps a lot against Sand Stall with Hippo because your opponent will have a lot of trouble getting up hazards meaning you will be getting all the momentum. Overall I think Xatu would benefit your team far more then Starmie, even if it does mean your a bit weaker to rain teams. (Volc sweeps Rain easily anyway)
    Hope I helped!
  4. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    4,019
    Starmie is really my only Keldeo check, but I can consider Rocky Helmet Xatu I guess...sand stall isn't really an issue though because of Giga Drain Volcarona + Dugtrio. I do like the idea of U-turn to Dugtrio though, so I will definitely test it out. It also gives me a better Ground immunity than Volcarona, which I like. Thanks for the rate, @Trevorpoke42!
  5. Hulavuta

    Hulavuta a
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2012
    Messages:
    828
    Thanks for remembering me xD
  6. Jimbon

    Jimbon FAKE TRAIN
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    513
    Hi there,

    Cool team, although there are a couple Pokemon that could cause you some trouble. The first thing that looks scary for this team is any variant of Volcarona, as it seems your only real way to hope to beat it is through a Dugtrio Stone Edge, or hoping it is severely weakened for Venusaur to clean up. Volcarona uses Ninetales, Starmie and Jirachi as complete set up bait and from then you pretty much lose if you fail to Rapid Spin to revenge with Dugtrio. A way to help with this would be to drop Substitute on Ninetales in place of Roar, which forces out Volcarona pretty much eliminating it as a threat. Between Ninetales and Dugtrio you should have no problems with Volcarona if you play smart. An additional change could be to drop Substitute in place of Toxic which now gives you the ability to whittle down opposing Weather inducers, which are going to be your biggest concern given how reliant this team is on Sun -- it's more personal preference than anything, but I'd definitely recommend dropping Substitute, you shouldn't be wasting 25% of your health on your most important team member with each use, Toxic / Roar will have much more consistent use.

    Also another thing to notice about your team is that your only Dragon resist isn't taking Dragon hits that well. If Jirachi is weakened then Salamence / Latios / Latios / Dragonite is going to have a field day with this team. It might be a good idea to run a little more bulk on Jirachi, a spread of 108 HP / 252 Atk / 148 Spe would suffice, providing you with extra bulk to prolong the life of your main Draco Meteor buffer, while there is nothing particularly relevant you achieve with max speed. Max Speed with a Choice Scarf means you speed tie with +1 Volcarona and +1 Salamence, but it's not like Jirachi has business staying in on either of them [unless you want to risk the tie with Salamence and potentially lose your Jirachi]. The point I am trying to emphasize here is that I would argue Dragons are one of the biggest threats to this team, but this problem may be mitigated by my next solution.

    A final change I would recommend to you would be to consider trying Hidden Power [Ice] on either Venusaur or Volcarona. Dragons are a problem for this team, and they are most likely to be switching in on Venusaur and Volcarona looking at your team. You said were considering Hidden Power [Ice] on Venusaur to beat Dragons and I think it would help a lot -- losing Hidden Power [Fire] doesn't seem to be that big of a loss for a Sun team, as you have Volcarona and Ninetales to deal with pesky Steel types. On the other hand, replacing Giga Drain with Hidden Power [Ice] on Volcarona could also be a good shout, as Hidden Power [Ice] handles many of the Pokemon you listed that Volcarona has trouble with [Salamence, Dragonite], while neither Gyarados or opposing will appreciate a Sun boosted Fiery Dance anyway, which increase both of their sweeping capabilities.

    Good luck!
    Twin Citiez and scotti like this.
  7. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    4,019
    @Jimbon: Thanks, I will definitely test out those changes.
  8. Trinitrotoluene

    Trinitrotoluene my splendid serperior is superior to your inferior rhyperior
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2010
    Messages:
    1,188
    Wow. Forgot about me in the dogbirds shoutout section ;_;. i see how it is now Just kidding. Congrats on your 2k!

    Anyways, this team is a pretty solid example of sun offense as it stands today, but per the usual, you still have some problems with ScarfTran, Scarf Chandelure, SubCM Latias, and Double Dance Landorus-T. ScarfTran and Scarf Chandelure don't give a damn about your trapping core of ScarfRachi and Dugtrio, since they outspeed the latter and don't care about the former's attacks, all while blasting your team with boosted STAB Fire Blasts; the only members you have that are faster than them are Jirachi and Venusaur, which cannot hurt them effectively (unless you get extremely lucky w/ flinches from the former). SubCM Latias can switch in and set up on Ninetales and Starmie, two of the most crucial team members, and demolish your team w/ boosted Dragon Pulses. Jirachi, your best check (I can't exactly consider it a counter since it isn't guaranteed to 2HKO Latias after SR) to it, is 3HKOed by a +2 Dragon Pulse and has to get past the sub to deal damage to Latias. Volcarona is your best bet at beating Latias, and even then, it's reliant on SR being off the field. As for DubDance Landorus-T, I'll assume it's swept you before because your Dugtrio and Starmie are set-up bait for it.

    Now, here's a surprisingly simple solution for your ScarfTran and Scarf Chandelure weakness: use Earthquake over Sludge Bomb! This provides you the coverage you need to prevent ScarfTran and Scarf Chandy from sweeping your team, reducing the burden placed on Dugtrio's shoulders (does it even have shoulders?) to remove Volcarona's Ground-weak counters. This also lets Venusaur get past its usual checks and work better w/ Volcarona. In addition, I think you should use Hidden Power Ice over Hidden Power Fire, for the sake of hitting dragons and the aforementioned Landorus-T much harder than before. Hidden Power Ice also has excellent neutral coverage when paired up with Earthquake and Giga Drain (only missing out on Shedinja!), and you really aren't hurting for more Fire-type coverage. Scizor, Skarmory, and other steels hit by HP Fire are non-issues thanks to Volcarona and Ninetales, lessening the need for Hidden Power Fire on Venusaur. With these additions, I'd recommend running a Naive Nature and an IV spread of 30 Atk / 30 Def on Venusaur. The former change keeps Venusaur's Attack stat up while the latter guarantees that HP Ice will retain a base power of 70.

    Smaller changes: use Toxic or Roar over Substitute on Ninetales to deal w/ opposing Volcarona and other set-up sweepers far more consistently. As for Jirachi, I think you would be better off with an EV spread of 252 HP / 144 Atk / 112 Spe and an Adamant Nature. This helps provide a more efficient buffer against opposing dragons (Latios and its incredibly powerful Draco Meteor comes to mind) while maintaining Jirachi's role as a revenge killer. The loss of speed doesn't really matter anyways since Venusaur can pick up the slack. A list of changes is available below if you don't feel like reading this wall of text:

    Nitpicks:
    • [​IMG]
      • Sludge Bomb ====> Earthquake
      • HP Fire ====> HP Ice
      • Timid ====> Naive
      • 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe IVs ====> 30 Atk / 30 Def IVs
    • [​IMG]
      • Substitute ====> Toxic / Roar
    • [​IMG]
      • Jolly ====> Adamant
      • 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe ====> 252 HP / 144 Atk / 112 Spe
    Good luck with your team, and congrats on hitting 2k!
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2013
  9. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    4,019
    @Trinitrotoluene -- one who has xXy010m4$t3r360n0$c0p3$w4gXx

    I just died a little typing that.

    In all seriousness, thanks for the rate and congrats! I like your proposed Venusaur set, and will be sure to test it out.
  10. Oopa

    Oopa

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2012
    Messages:
    131
    Three words. Dogbirds. Are. Strongth.
    ? are you trying to say strong or strength ?
    Congrats on your 2000th post and im sorry for framing you on #dogbirds T_T though you were probs AFK
    BTW, why did you choose Fire Blast > Fiery Dance, as Fiery Dance has a nice chance to raise the Special Attack and is 100% accurate so you won't be sad. Also, you could tweak Dugtrio's IVs and Nature as it allows it to do crazy stuff - I think Lavos Spawn's
    Simulation of a Drought in the RMT archive has nice explanations on it. But just minor changes which could help :)
    Hmmph you didn't read past the first two lines. Imma gonna shoot you in the head now >:|
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2013
  11. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    4,019
    I meant what I said and I said what I meant~
  12. RoyalBlue

    RoyalBlue

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2013
    Messages:
    95
    Congrats on 2K! Pretty nice sun team you have going on here, I really like it.

    On Ninetales, I think you should run Pain Split over Sunny Day. Maybe it's just me, but SD seems really pointless on Tales and a waste of a move slot in most situations. With Pain Split, you can bring opponents down to a comfortable amount of HP for another Poke to finish it off while gaining a bit of recovery at the same time.


    On Volcarona, I tried HP Rock and its great! Giga Drain is to hit Water types (I think so anyways) but they can't exactly touch you in the sun. Also, Venusaur can handle the Waters so you shouldn't need to worry too much about them.

    On Venusaur, I think you should keep HP Fire. Dragons can be easily killed by boosted Sludge Bombs. Like you said, Venusaur is a late game sweeper so the Dragons will probably be weakened enough for you to kill them off. HP Fire can also help you get around Scizor, which can stop your sweep with Venusaur.

    That's it! I hope I was able help you out, even if it was only a little bit. Good Luck!
  13. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,301
    *shoots you in the face* :p

    OK all seriousness this team is pretty solid that I don't have much to offer, only nitpicks I'm afraid (this is a good thing since it means the team synergizes well enough to where I don't have much to fix :D).

    1.) I'm not sure how good Substitute is on Ninetales, especially since you want it alive and with SR flying around as it is you're already hard-pressed just spinning (even more so to keep Tales healthy). Firstly, 184 speed should be used to hit 310, which is pretty neat to get the jump on Jolly Max LandoT (not that it's used often, but a lot of Pokemon speed creep 289 in general or 299 and you're better of outspeeding the randoms too). I'd use maximum HP and put the rest into SpA. Nextly, I'd replace Substitute for Roar so you prevent Ninetales from being total set up bait. (Personally, FB over Flamethrower since offensive, but it's preference choice.)

    2.) How useful is Stone Edge on Dugtrio? I would think Memento would be insanely better for those pesky Dragon types bombarding this team (and this gives Volca / Venu easy set up opp.). I'd run the additional bulk on Jirachi that @Jimbon suggested (108 HP / 252 Atk / 148 Spe) so it's a better answer to those dragon types. Lastly, Volcaroa can lure out Dragonite's with HP Rock all day long (Bug Buzz hits Lati@s and HP Rock smacks Salamence so I don't recommend HP ICe) since it hits Heatran neutrally (which make come in handy depending on how weakened it is) as well as hitting other Volcarona hard as well. Also, you might want to run 204 speed evs on Venusaur over your current to hit 271 since otherwise Agi ThundyT outspeeds you at +2 (analysis from BKC suggest running 128 spe on ThundyT). (I also advocate Firey Dance on Volcarona but that's preference for you. The miss rate on FB is so unappealing.)

    Thanks for sharing such a cute team! I hope I helped :)
  14. BKC

    BKC autumn leaves
    is a Tutoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Castle Valetis a Past WCoP Winneris the Smogon Tour Season 16 Champion

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,617
    max/max on jirachi and volcarona is a waste. use enough spe to hit 290 (scarf kyu-b) and throw the rest in hp. the choice of +spe or +(s)atk is up to you.

    stone edge dug sucks, use memento instead so you can set up your sweepers.

    sub on tales is worthless, use protect to scout choice pkmn and gain lefties.

    grats on 2k!!!
    dcae likes this.
  15. asterat

    asterat

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Messages:
    972
    I have to agree with t that mixed venusaur is better than purely special sets because it lets you build a sun team without using a dugtrio. That means you can run something else there, if you run donphan you have a way to check landorus therian and then starmie can become a jellicent or something of that sort.
  16. dwarfstar

    dwarfstar mindless philosopher
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    578
    Actually, Donphan isn't a reliable check to Landorus-T. You need significant Attack investment to reliably 2HKO Scarf Lando with Ice Shard even if you're not Intimidated and even a 252+ Atk Donphan can't do the job after Intimidate, meaning any variant of Landorus can smack Donphan with Hidden Power Ice or just U-turn out of there. Keep that Starmie.

    I do recommend that you test out that mixed Venusaur, though. Other than that, I can't really think of anything to improve the team, despite all my experience with sun. Kudos to you, Jukain, and congrats on your 2k!
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2013

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)