Follow The Leader [Pre Viability Ranking Discussion!]

[readytolose]

What do people think about Linoone? Not calling for a suspect, just want some discussion about it.

I've been using Linoone as a leader (I posted the team a while back) and it's actually decently effective. It's super matchup based though, and you still struggle against Steel-types, Ghost-types, and unlike Talonflame, you don't have enough tech to deal with them. Linoone does have some alternate options like Pursuit, Thunderbolt, and Switcheroo, all of which help deal with Ghosts, Steels, and passive Unaware Pokemon on Clefable teams. Still pretty one-dimensional, though. You need to play super aggressively to bring in something you can set up on. And it's super fun.

As for Talonflame, I think it isn't the most broken leader in the metagame (I think Dragonite and Sableye are more broken), but it still probably warrants a ban. Will post more if I get reqs.

 

[eat pray balk]

luke has quite a few limiting factors:
-steadfast, inner focus, and justified are all garbage abilities
-shallow support pool means no hazards, no hazard clear, and only one status move
-only speed boost is agility
-special pool is a little limited, and followers may have to give up boosting for unresisted coverage
-priority moves struggle against ghost and fighting-neutral steel

dragonite does most of luke's tricks better, and is only really disadvantaged by a lack of alternate priority moves and nasty plot
-multiscale can be slapped onto pretty much anything without a hitch, and is rather strong
-strong (if narrow) support pool including roost, heal bell, tailwind, twave, and defog
-access to dragon dance
-wide special pool including hurricane, focus blast, flamethrower/fire blast, thunderbolt, ice beam, and surf

 

[Sethevere]

I've faced so much stall on this meta... On one hand, I like the changes, but on the other, every mon can be turned into a stall mon.

 

[b3362]

Has anybody else tried running Arceus with a Mew leader? Throw in Chansey, Kyurem-B, Alakazam, and Mega-Pinsir, and not much can beat you.

 

[Da Random Bro]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/followtheleader-410640512
Battle against b3362 where I didn't make the best plays but I also didn't expect to win against a boosting Arceus soo...

As G-Luke said earlier, Arceus and Genesect forms can be used because of a loophole in the code. This is pretty annoying and game-breaking and I think a lot of us would like it fixed. The Immortal

EDIT: YAY I beat the Arceus before it did anything http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/followtheleader-410646598

 

[SS445]

After reconsideration i think that gale wings teams should be banned.
Even though they can be countered their strategy is pretty stale and solely relies on trying to set up and then spamming brave and doesnt offer much creativity in turns of move sets.
P.S: Here is how you can use a GW team and totally miss the plot
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/followtheleader-410703300

 

[IcE BraNd]

Does zoroark works well with the meta? 6 illusion mons sounds a bit troll :D

 

[Isa Simple]

I personally am all for a Talonflame ban.
I've played a decent amount amount of Follow the Leader on a range of alts, nothing too competitive just throwing together random teams to test more underused leaders, and have found Talonflame to have a rather unhealthy influence on the meta. It's just too restricting. Yes, a prepared team can probably 6-0 or 6-1 a Talonflame team with relative ease using just 1 or 2 pokemon, but it's all the other pokemon that suffer. Talonflame teams simply invalidate 90% of offensive mons, and severely restrict defensive mons too if they're able to boost. From what I've seen from playing the meta and spectating a bunch of games, their seems to be very few ways to actually (semi)reliably beat Talonflame teams. Here is what I've seen:
1. Utilising Extreme Speed spam.
2. Having a stupidly bulky Unaware boosting mon.
3. Rocky Helmet + Rough Skin spam on Druddigon teams.
4. Having 2 designated counters (Sometimes 1 is enough but not reliably), and sacking every other mon on your team to scout for Natural Gift.

Though no method is perfect. The first 3 are obviously leader dependant and have extremely poor distribution, not to mention the best leaders for the former two are possibly broken in themselves. And the last method isn't always reliable as certain less common sets can often blind side you and rip through your counters, and scouting for moves like Natural Gift can sometimes give the extra boost needed to muscle through your counter.
Talonflame is simply far too restricting, having few ways to beat it and invalidating any team that hasn't specifically prepared for it, and still failing to loose consistently to "prepared" teams. Ban Talonflame.

I Also feel like touching a bit on Sableye teams. A few people have called for future suspects on this little gremlin, and however I'm definitely not against that, until then I hope I can inspire a few ideas on how to better deal with the imp.
Sableye is a tricky one to deal with, but I honestly find it more 1 dimensional than Talonflame. Pretty much every Sableye team is just Chansey supported by 5 passive bulky mons spamming Will-O-Wisp and Taunt, with Foul Play and Metal Burst thrown in to make things more difficult to break safely. Sometimes they might have 1 offensive mon. Admittedly a very difficult mashup to take down. Though there is more room to play around them than Talonflame teams, as they are much slower paced, and often over reliant of 1 or 2 special walls, which allows you to have a bit more pressure and control.
For those looking for more specific tips to get revenge on any cancerous Sableye teams that you've crumbled against in the past, here's what I've stumbled upon:
The most splashable checks to Sableye teams are probably strong Fire type wall breakers that don't need boosting to put massive holes in just about anything. I've found Emboar to be quite effective as it murders Chansey without risking a Metal Burst KO and resists Foul Play, so if you have access to Close Combat, Super Power, or HJK, that's a nice option. Victini teams with Mega Zard Y murder Sableye teams. Stray Toxics as they un-expectingly fail to Taunt you are extremely effective. If you have access to Poison Fang, use it, that shit is mint. The most effective method I've found is a Lucario set I've used on a Thundurus-I team, with Prankster Sub Nasty Plot, alongside dual STAB and leftovers. Which is just a better version of my original idea with Bisharp on this Liepard team I was toying with (Prankster Copycat shenanigans). I figured NP Lucario would be better due to being unfazed by Foul Play, but here is a replay of the Bisharp in action so you get the gist (Don't have any Luc replays sorry). But basically the only essentials to beating a Sableye team are a competent Fire type and special attacker, coupled with really careful and smart play, showing awareness of Sableye's limited tricks. Do your best to apply pressure and control the pace.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/followtheleader-409686517

So yeah, not against a Sableye suspect, but there are more ways to try handle it than with Talon, so it's not high on my priority bracket.
Other leaders notable of discussion are Dragonite, Clefable and Kecleon.

 

[Reapehify]

It's rather lazy and I haven't taken the 90 minutes of prior 13 pages of reading, but I can concur that Gale Wings needs to be banned. Talonflame has access to an alternate ability and so shouldn't be completely removed from the meta as it as a statistical breakdown doesn't have stats that break the meta. Kyurem-B on the other hand does, and while we're suspecting Gale Wings we need to also ban Kyurem-B outright until a test can be done. That shit is equally as invalidating as Gale Wings. :l

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/followtheleader-410770177

 

[SS445]

I Also feel like touching a bit on Sableye teams. A few people have called for future suspects on this little gremlin, and however I'm definitely not against that, until then I hope I can inspire a few ideas on how to better deal with the imp.
Sableye is a tricky one to deal with, but I honestly find it more 1 dimensional than Talonflame. Pretty much every Sableye team is just Chansey supported by 5 passive bulky mons spamming Will-O-Wisp and Taunt, with Foul Play and Metal Burst thrown in to make things more difficult to break safely. Sometimes they might have 1 offensive mon. Admittedly a very difficult mashup to take down. Though there is more room to play around them than Talonflame teams, as they are much slower paced, and often over reliant of 1 or 2 special walls, which allows you to have a bit more pressure and control.
For those looking for more specific tips to get revenge on any cancerous Sableye teams that you've crumbled against in the past, here's what I've stumbled upon:
The most splashable checks to Sableye teams are probably strong Fire type wall breakers that don't need boosting to put massive holes in just about anything. I've found Emboar to be quite effective as it murders Chansey without risking a Metal Burst KO and resists Foul Play, so if you have access to Close Combat, Super Power, or HJK, that's a nice option. Victini teams with Mega Zard Y murder Sableye teams. Stray Toxics as they un-expectingly fail to Taunt you are extremely effective. If you have access to Poison Fang, use it, that shit is mint. The most effective method I've found is a Lucario set I've used on a Thundurus-I team, with Prankster Sub Nasty Plot, alongside dual STAB and leftovers. Which is just a better version of my original idea with Bisharp on this Liepard team I was toying with (Prankster Copycat shenanigans). I figured NP Lucario would be better due to being unfazed by Foul Play, but here is a replay of the Bisharp in action so you get the gist (Don't have any Luc replays sorry). But basically the only essentials to beating a Sableye team are a competent Fire type and special attacker, coupled with really careful and smart play, showing awareness of Sableye's limited tricks. Do your best to apply pressure and control the pace.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/followtheleader-409686517

Read your post and saw the replay and gotta say it was nice way to counter it but what you also showed is what concerns most who are for the sableye ban:
While your team comfortably dealt with it, more often than not the battle is lost before it even begins if you do end up facing a sableye team if you do not have a fire physical sweeper or some gimmicky team like the one you used. Im okay with stall if it can be countered with strategic play but with these sableye teams you can very often find yourself incapable of doing no matter how skilled at battling you are.

 

[sin(pi)]

Sableye stall teams have no reliable way of dealing with Toxic, yes you can switch Mega Sableye into it but are you going to switch Sab in on Gardevoir (for example)? Rest doesn't count as reliable because a whole bunch of things can 3HKO your dudes, and Taunt only works if you're in already - I can switch M-Garde on your Sableye, force you out and Toxic your Chansey switching, and then proceed to spam Taunt/attacks until you die. The team also can't break through Unaware + Rest at all, and struggles with Magic Guard + CM (amongst other things). It also has no hazard control if you can beat Sab, nor phasing (Foul Play and Metal Burst are annoying though).

On the subject of stall, my "checklist" for building stall teams was:
-Recovery
-Hazards (somewhat optional)
-Hazard removal (or a movepool which can support Sableye but this is far worse)
-(p)hazing
-WoW/Scald (preferable but not mandatory)
-Pivoting (optional but nice)
-something which makes Chansey not hit like tissue paper (seismic toss/night shade, super fang, etc) (optionaly but nice)
-some way to beat opposing stall (Taunt? Magic Guard Sweeper? Mold Breaker/something to support Gyara/Amphy?)

This pretty much restricts "ideal" stall to Mew. However there are of course other options, such as Regenerator stall, Clefable stall (Quag too but Magic Guard and Heal Bell, as well as CM, make Clef really nice), Prankster stall (ie Sableye), etc. But Mew has literally everything you could want.

tl;dr you need a good stallbreaker to beat stall, and stall teams in themselves are much frailer/more restricted here.

 

[Reapehify]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/followtheleader-410785279

Is No Guard M-Pidg with Zap Cannon and Hypnosis reasonable? It's niche and depends on Mew, but Mew is a very popular lead.

 

[Bradsk1]

Thought i'd give my input for a team....

Volt turn is really nice in this metagame. Having a lead with access to both allows the team fast and slow momentum, and allows for you to beat a lot of the set-up that is currently in the meta. As you may already have realized by now, the leader of this team is Mew. Although this team isn't perfect, i've had some success with the team, currently being ranked 13 (Current Best). As you may already know, having Mew as a lead also allows for am extremely diverse team and move pool, and allows some Pokemon to shine more through its wide variety of moves.

VoltTurn

Mew @ Life Orb
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Volt Switch / Nasty plot
- Aura Sphere
- Psychic

The current Mew set I am using, although its value towards the team is somewhat limited, probably will be testing different sets in the future.

EDIT: I have found some success using it against some threats that are slower that it without priority, like Hydreigon, also gives the team a surprise factor as the opponent doesn't know what set you're running.

Beedrill-Mega @ Beedrillite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Gunk Shot
- Knock Off / Earthquake / Will-o-Wisp
- Protect

Beedrill can put in a lot of work in the current metagame, with leads like Clefable, Manaphy, Slowbro and Nidoking having limited priority, it allows Beedrill to blister past the metagame. Also with the addition of Adaptability Gunk Shot from Mew's movepool, it becomes quite a threat.

Landorus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock / Defog
- Roost / Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- U-turn

Inspired by STABmons, Lando-T becomes quite a defensive wall with the addition of roost, although losing some viability in its loss of intimidate. Rocky helmet helps beat pesky Cinccino teams, although Defog could be put on this set as a way of removing hazards.

Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Soft-Boiled / Defog
- Roar / Dragon Tail
- U-turn / Volt Switch

Dont ask me why i thought of Milotic, although it has proven to be a helpful part of the team with its special bulk. A slow turn is really handy to bring in the offensive threats in this team. Roar is handy to phase out teams with Numel/Swoobat, Clefable (Belly drum), or
linoone teams.

Registeel @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Volt Switch
- Soft-Boiled / Roar
- Will-O-Wisp / Softboiled

Ive found Registeel to be a much better wall than Milotic, due to being able to resist Mega Pinsir's and Mega Altaria's boosted E-speed on some teams. It also allows me to use defog on Lando as a way of removing hazards for Beedrill. Roar can be also put on the set if necessary.

Raikou @ Choice Specs
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Scald / Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast

Having a STAB Volt Switch on the team is really powerful. Combined with Mew's great special movepool and it's base 115 speed, Raikou is a pretty strong force to be reckoned with. Scald is great for burns whilst Flamethrower is handy for Steel, Bug and Grass types, although I haven't tested many other sets so i'm sure there's a better one in Mew's Movepool :)

Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake / Sucker Punch
- Explosion

Mew gives Tyranitar what it's been missing in its movepool, Explosion. But seriously, Knock off Just makes it that much better. Combined with not having to run sand on the team, BandTar is great as a wall breaker, as well as a dark and normal resist. which the team needs.

Vs a Dnite team (beaten me twice before switching to Registeel)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/followtheleader-411825244

Let me know what you guys think should be made better on the team! hope you enjoy :]

 

[G-Luke]

Well as of this moment, the suspect has ended and Gale Wings is officially banned from Follow The Leader. And hopefully after this is implemented the glitches can be fixed.

Tagging The Immortal

 

[IcE BraNd]

I tried trickroom final gambit team and it failed. Dont try it lol

 

[G-Luke]

Thought i'd give my input for a team....

Volt turn is really nice in this metagame. Having a lead with access to both allows the team fast and slow momentum, and allows for you to beat a lot of the set-up that is currently in the meta. As you may already have realized by now, the leader of this team is Mew. Although this team isn't perfect, i've had some success with the team, currently being ranked 13 (will probably tilt like crazy after writing this). As you may already know, having Mew as a lead also allows for am extremely diverse team and move pool, and allows some Pokemon to shine more through its wide variety of moves.

VoltTurn

Mew @ Life Orb
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Volt Switch
- Aura Sphere
- Psychic

The current Mew set I am using, although its value towards the team is somewhat limited, probably will be testing different sets in the future.

Beedrill-Mega @ Beedrillite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Gunk Shot
- Knock Off
- Protect

Beedrill can put in a lot of work in the current metagame, with leads like Clefable, Manaphy, Slowbro and Nidoking having limited priority, it allows Beedrill to blister past the metagame. Also with the addition of Adaptability Gunk Shot from Mew's movepool, it becomes quite a threat.

Landorus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock / Defog
- Roost / Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- U-turn

Inspired by STABmons, Lando-T becomes quite a defensive wall with the addition of roost, although losing some viability in its loss of intimidate. Rocky helmet helps beat pesky Cinccino teams, although Defog could be put on this set as a way of removing hazards.

Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Soft-Boiled / Defog
- Roar / Dragon Tail
- U-turn/ Volt Switch

Dont ask me why i thought of Milotic, although it has proven to be a helpful part of the team with its special bulk. A slow turn is really handy to bring in the offensive threats in this team. Roar is handy to phase out teams with Numel/Swoobat, Clefable (Belly drum), or linoone teams.

Raikou @ Choice Specs
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Scald / Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower

Having a STAB Volt Switch on the team is really powerful. Combined with Mew's great special movepool and it's base 115 speed, Raikou is a pretty strong force to be reckoned with. Scald is great for burns whilst Flamethrower is handy for Steel, Bug and Grass types, although I haven't tested many other sets so i'm sure there's a better one in Mew's Movepool :)

Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake / Sucker Punch
- Explosion

Mew gives Tyranitar what it's been missing in its movepool, Explosion. But seriously, Knock off Just makes it that much better. Combined with not having to run sand on the team, BandTar is great as a wall breaker, as well as a dark and normal resist. which the team needs.

Let me know what you guys think should be made better on the team! hope you enjoy :]

This looks like an excellent team, but why not Fire Blast on Raikou?

 

[Ghoul King]

Mew @ Life Orb
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Volt Switch
- Aura Sphere
- Psychic

The current Mew set I am using, although its value towards the team is somewhat limited, probably will be testing different sets in the future.

I'd think Nasty Plot in here would be good.

Beedrill-Mega @ Beedrillite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Gunk Shot
- Knock Off
- Protect

Beedrill can put in a lot of work in the current metagame, with leads like Clefable, Manaphy, Slowbro and Nidoking having limited priority, it allows Beedrill to blister past the metagame. Also with the addition of Adaptability Gunk Shot from Mew's movepool, it becomes quite a threat.

I'd replace Gunk Shot with Earthquake. Pretty much anything willing to switch into Mega Beedrill's U-Turn is going to be something willing to switch into Gunk Shot, bar a handful of Fairies. Earthquake lets you handle non-Skarmory Steels/non-Levitrans/etc, among other issues.

Alternatively, slot in Will O Wisp to punish Skarmory switch-ins, bypass Sucker Punch attempts, and just generally give Mega Beedrill surprise utility.

The other four Pokemon look pretty good, bar maybe replacing Explosion on Tyranitar, and I don't know if that's been putting in work or not, so whatever.

 

[AquaticPanic]

Zoroark turns out to be a quite decent leader. Illusion everything, both SD and NP, somewhat good movepool. For an example, Gengar can now Nasty Plot and then Sludge Bomb the world.
You also get acces to some moves like U-Turn, Ftrower and Sucker Punch.

 

[Da Random Bro]

Team dump/criticism time!
I built this D-nite team a while ago and have had mixed results with it. On one hand, it beats some common teams on the ladder easily, such as Bellyspeed. On the other hand, I cannot beat Unaware teams, especially Cress.
I know I'm not the best teambuilder (kinda new to teambuilding), but I tried to make a decent team.

Barney (Dragonite) (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Extreme Speed
- Fire Punch
- Earthquake

The leader of this team. Puts in a ton of work as a wallbreaker and late-game cleaner.

Prototype (Archeops) @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed
- Roost

Currently the most expendable 'mon on my team. It dies to nearly any supereffective attack even at full health with Multiscale, and it isn't too effective as an E-speeder. It also compounds a critical Rock and Ice weakness on my team. tl;dr suggestions for replacing this plz.

Dat Boid (Pidgeot-Mega) @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Thunder
- Blizzard
- Focus Blast

Great mega overall. Very speedy, incredible coverage and power without missing. Pretty much the cornerstone of my team.

Carnage (Kyurem-Black) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance

Absolutely wrecks shop. One DDance and you're golden. Contemplating adding Espeed on here, but the Ice/Ground coverage is necessary and Outrage is insanely strong, so I'm not sure it's worth taking that off.

Kettle (Volcanion) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt

A bulky AV attacker with nice coverage. Its typing allows it to tank most special and a lot of physical hits, and it retaliates effectively.

Canada (Chansey) @ Eviolite
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Roost
- Heal Bell
- Toxic

Problem #2 on my team. I couldn't find a dedicated physical wall to go well on this team (Hippowdon was the first thing that came to mind, but Chansey is better in most ways). I desperately needed a defogger to keep rocks away for Multiscale, and Heal Bell is great to get rid of other passive damage to keep Multiscale intact. However, this thing is way too passive, only really doing well against Unaware Cosmic Power mons. It is completely blocked by Steel, Poison, and Magic Guard.

So any criticism is welcome and replacements for Chansey and Archeops are probably necessary. Thanks!

 

[molochicken]

I just beat a player with Genesect and Arceus in this tier. I thought uber is banned when it is stated:

• Standard OU banlist and clauses

It is 100% real as I hit the Genesect with rock blast. Checked my battle window and the tier format is Follow The Leader, rated Battle.

Can anyone explain?

 

[Da Random Bro]

molochicken Genesect and Arceus alternate forms (without needing an item, funnily enough) are a loophole in the code. They should be banned but the code hasnt changed yet.

 

[Bradsk1]

This looks like an excellent team, but why not Fire Blast on Raikou?

Not really sure, accuracy I guess? Its only mostly to hit things like ferrothorn, which OHKO's Anyway.

I'd think Nasty Plot in here would be good.


I'd replace Gunk Shot with Earthquake. Pretty much anything willing to switch into Mega Beedrill's U-Turn is going to be something willing to switch into Gunk Shot, bar a handful of Fairies. Earthquake lets you handle non-Skarmory Steels/non-Levitrans/etc, among other issues.

Alternatively, slot in Will O Wisp to punish Skarmory switch-ins, bypass Sucker Punch attempts, and just generally give Mega Beedrill surprise utility.

The other four Pokemon look pretty good, bar maybe replacing Explosion on Tyranitar, and I don't know if that's been putting in work or not, so whatever.

I tried a stallbreaker mew at the beginning and it just wasn't doing anything for my team. Although with the right coverage nasty plot might be viable.

Gunk shot is really handy because it OHKO's keldeo after rocks. Although I have seen myself use knock off alot less, so maybe it could go there instead?
Will-o Is pretty neat but I think Beedrill needs that power from gunk shot in order to shine. Could be instead of Knock off though, will change, Thanks.

 

[jamashawalker]

Team dump/criticism time!
I built this D-nite team a while ago and have had mixed results with it. On one hand, it beats some common teams on the ladder easily, such as Bellyspeed. On the other hand, I cannot beat Unaware teams, especially Cress.
I know I'm not the best teambuilder (kinda new to teambuilding), but I tried to make a decent team.

Barney (Dragonite) (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Extreme Speed
- Fire Punch
- Earthquake

The leader of this team. Puts in a ton of work as a wallbreaker and late-game cleaner.

Prototype (Archeops) @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed
- Roost

Currently the most expendable 'mon on my team. It dies to nearly any supereffective attack even at full health with Multiscale, and it isn't too effective as an E-speeder. It also compounds a critical Rock and Ice weakness on my team. tl;dr suggestions for replacing this plz.

Dat Boid (Pidgeot-Mega) @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Thunder
- Blizzard
- Focus Blast

Great mega overall. Very speedy, incredible coverage and power without missing. Pretty much the cornerstone of my team.

Carnage (Kyurem-Black) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance

Absolutely wrecks shop. One DDance and you're golden. Contemplating adding Espeed on here, but the Ice/Ground coverage is necessary and Outrage is insanely strong, so I'm not sure it's worth taking that off.

Kettle (Volcanion) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt

A bulky AV attacker with nice coverage. Its typing allows it to tank most special and a lot of physical hits, and it retaliates effectively.

Canada (Chansey) @ Eviolite
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Roost
- Heal Bell
- Toxic

Problem #2 on my team. I couldn't find a dedicated physical wall to go well on this team (Hippowdon was the first thing that came to mind, but Chansey is better in most ways). I desperately needed a defogger to keep rocks away for Multiscale, and Heal Bell is great to get rid of other passive damage to keep Multiscale intact. However, this thing is way too passive, only really doing well against Unaware Cosmic Power mons. It is completely blocked by Steel, Poison, and Magic Guard.

So any criticism is welcome and replacements for Chansey and Archeops are probably necessary. Thanks!

Replacing archeops with bulky CB Ursaring gets rid of your rock weakness and gives you a powerful immediate attacker/ Cleaner.

Ursaring @ Choice Band
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Superpower
- Facade/Return
- Earthquake/Ice punch/iron head

Most of the time you'll be spamming Extremespeed unless you predict the Steel/rock switch in,then click superpower. Facade is so your not completely screwed against sabeleye teams. Which turns Ursaring into a terrifying monster against them. The coverage is just up there for anything. Dnite doesn't offer much against ghost... So kinda screwed against every ghost not named Gengar.

 

[Da Random Bro]

jamashawalker Thanks! I had actually considered Ursaring but didn't think of a set for it. It should work pretty well.

 

[Deck Knight]

I'm still toying around with the team and will have to play more later, but one of the leads I decided to try (that hasn't been mentioned yet from the looks of it) is Rhyperior.

+ 2 Solid Abilities - Lightning Rod for free Electric Immunity and SpA boost on predicted hit, Solid Rock for Fatmons, (and I guess Reckless Double-Edge for Normals but eh).
+ Huge Movepool - It has elemental everything [It only really lacks Fairy moves and Special Dark/Ghost attacks), Metal Burst, Megahorn and Poison Jab for M-Beedrill to use. It also has Endeavor if you like shenanigans.
+ Boosting Moves: Swords Dance, Curse, and Rock Polish.
+ Phazing: Phazing moves in Dragon Tail and Roar, and Stealth Rock access so they're actually effective.
+ Rhyperior itself isn't dead weight. Assault Vest, Solid Rock, and Max SpD EVs allowed Rhyp to tank a Volcanion Surf and KO back with EQ. Since a lot of mons have restricted movepools, anything without special grass or water has a difficult time OHKOing it, whereas STAB EQ + Stone Edge is effective against most opponents and again, Rhyp teams do not lack for coverage or STAB options.

- No Priority
- Limited Support and No Reliable Recovery

Basically Rhyperior teams act like Rhyp itself, tanking attacks and dishing out their own.