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For the Birds - an updated OU RMT

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Arcticblast, Aug 11, 2012.

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  1. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast Danned Beucer.
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    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Ooo I like the color scheme now

    So hi! I made a rain team because I originally planned to build this team around Jolteon, but never really bothered taking Politoed off. So it's built around a Pokemon I'm not using! Mostly it's built off of itself, adding Pokemon to cover synergy issues and missing roles. My original plan was to build a team around some set that isn't used (Yawn Jolteon? lol) and I think I kept that goal alive through this team. Like every team, though, it has its problems, which will be outlined to the best of my ability in the second post (to save some room on this one, I guess...) so I'm looking for some feedback on it - I could always use a bit of help!

    Full teambuilding process will go here later (open)
    Add Jolteon
    Add Politoed
    Add Tornadus-T
    Add Ferrothorn
    Add Forretress - at this point I found I'd built myself into a hole
    Remove Tornadus-T, Ferrothorn and Forretress
    Add Dragonite
    Remove Dragonite, add Moltres because fuck yeah Moltres!
    Remove Jolteon, add Empoleon
    Add Amoonguss
    Add Donphan
    Add Terrakion
    Remove Amoonguss, add Ferrothorn again
    Making a new team with Genesect, morphs into this team...
    Remove Moltres
    Remove Terrakion
    Add Genesect
    Add Tornadus-T again


    Before you give me suggestions, I should tell you this - I delight in running unexpected sets and under-appreciated Pokemon, oftentimes going out of my way to incorporate a UU Pokemon I find interesting.

    With that, onto the Pokemon!

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    [​IMG]
    Politoed @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 Def / 248 HP / 8 SAtk
    Calm Nature
    - Scald
    - Toxic
    - Encore
    - Substitute

    Most Rain teams would never work at their best without Politoed's Drizzle, and mine is no exception. When I remade the team, I took Electrolyte's advice and made Politoed physically defensive. Scald is pretty much standard fare, Toxic puts the hurt on bulky Pokemon not immune to it, and Encore is fun little option to temporarily deal with something. Substitute is also quite an enjoyable move to use, as I can use Substitute against a Gastrodon or Ferrothorn and prevent myself from being completely crippled, and on the next turn Encore them into their last move.

    I think here would be a good place to note that getting Rain up is never my first priority. That would be stopping whatever plans the opponent has in place. For this reason, I never lead with Politoed.

    [​IMG]
    Tornadus-T @ Life Orb
    Ability: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spe / 4 Atk
    Naive Nature
    - Hurricane
    - Focus Blast
    - Superpower
    - U-turn

    I know I said that I prefer Moltres to Tornadus-T as a Hurricane spammer, but I didn't replace Moltres with this guy - I replaced Terrakion with this guy. Luckily, he still fits the bird theme too. This is actually my first time using Tornadus-T on one of my main teams, and I never realized just how good he was until now - he absolutely blasts through practically everything. It's a pretty standard set. Hurricane for STAB, Focus Blast to provide excellent neutral coverage, Hidden Power Ice for a few select situations (Hi Dragonite) and U-Turn for scouting. Superpower over HP Ice because I'm having pink blob problems and to mess with people's heads. Thanks Valhalla!

    RIP Terrakion (open)
    [​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 6 SpD
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    - Rock Slide

    Terrakion was actually just kind of tacked onto my team because I lacked a revenge killer, but it's listed second here for my own reasons. It really is a solid revenge killer, capable of outspeeding +1 base 100s, Tornadus-T, and all sorts of fun things, and threatening with the appropriate move. Close Combat and Stone Edge are standard STAB moves, while X-Scissor provides extra coverage against things like Celebi or Latias. The last slot is actually Rock Slide / Sacred Sword / Earthquake / Iron Head / Focus Blast / Round / Swagger because I never use it.

    Also, the Sugimori art for Terrakion is lame.


    [​IMG]
    Empoleon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 252 HP / 156 SpA / 100 SpD
    Calm Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Toxic
    - Ice Beam
    - Roar

    Empoleon has proven beyond valuable on this team. Its natural bulk allows it to take Special hits all day while hitting back hard with a STAB, Rain-boosted Hydro Pump. This was actually intended to be an incredibly specialized Volcarona counter - it can take one HP Ground from +1 252/252+ Timid Volcarona and always OHKO back with Hydro Pump in the Rain, and all other sets struggle to damage it in Rain. Even after adding Terrakion to the team, I kept Empoleon, and it has definitely been pulling its weight, even taking a couple boosted Outrages and stalling out a Starmie. Hydro Pump hits like a truck in the Rain, and Ice Beam hits pesky Grass-types and Dragons for decent damage. Toxic and Protect were also part of the Volcarona plan, and are both useful moves in their own right.

    [​IMG]
    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 166 SDef / 88 Def
    Sassy Nature
    - Spikes
    - Leech Seed
    - Thunder Wave
    - Power Whip

    Yeah, sorry, I'm being a standard asshole, running Ferrothorn on a Rain team. Ferrothorn's bulk, typing and movepool all contribute something unique to this team, and I might be lost without them. Spikes allows me to shave at least 12% health off of everything grounded. Leech Seed helps deal with walls, and nothing really likes taking a Leech Seed on the way into battle. Thunder Wave cripples anything fast, and makes Poison Heal Breloom cry if it comes in before Toxic Orb activates. Power Whip is anti-Taunt and helps against several things like Politoed and Keldeo. The Sassy nature is there to take Thunderbolts better.

    [​IMG]
    Donphan @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 128 Attack / 128 Defense
    Impish Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Shard
    - Rapid Spin
    - Stealth Rock

    Elephants are awesome, and Donphan is certainly no exception. Donphan's incredible Defense and wonderful movepool pretty much does everything I didn't have when I added it in - a sturdy (no pun intended) physical wall, Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin. Its typing also gives me an immunity to Electric and a Rock resist, and all of that other stuff Ground does. Earthquake hits surprisingly hard for a Pokemon meant to wall, and Ice Shard is useful for taking out stuff at low health or Dragons who think they can get along fine on low health.

    [​IMG]
    Genesect @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spe / 4 Atk
    Hasty Nature
    - U-turn
    - Hidden Power Ground
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunder

    Oh my God, Genesect really is amazing. You can build a team around it, you can tack it onto a team, you can sweep teams with it, you can probably toast bread with it. But there's no butter. Anyway, Genesect provides me with a frightening mixed attacker (depending on the boost!) and a potential sweeper, as well as finally having something that can use Thunder! U-Turn allows me to scout and beat the crap out of Tyranitar. Bug Buzz provides a strong STAB in place of Flamethower. Ice Beam hits Dragons and Flying-types hoping to tank U-Turn, and Thunder hits pretty much everything hard. Hidden Power Ground gives me an extra tool against Sun teams, who can otherwise beat me easily. Hasty nature again to not boost Genesect's Special Attack.

    RIP Moltres (open)
    [​IMG]
    Moltres @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 228 Spd / 240 HP / 40 SAtk
    Timid Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Hurricane
    - Substitute
    - Roost

    Who said Fire-types don't like Rain? Moltres loves it! When BW2 rolled around, Moltres gained a powerful new move in Hurricane. Hurricane isn't just a power boost though - it makes Moltres the second Fire-type to be able to abuse a normally detrimental weather condition. Hurricane is obviously the crux of this set, being a powerful STAB move with 100% accuracy in the rain (and against Machamp!) with excellent coverage in the current metagame. Substitute and Roost allow Moltres to keep itself healthy and free of status. Fire Blast hits Steel-types pretty hard even in Rain and gives Sun teams a taste of their own medicine. When making this set, I decided that a bulky spread would be best so I could use Moltres's respectable 90/90/85 bulk to take hits in a pinch, while still hitting hard off of base 125 Special Attack. The HP EVs give me 381 HP - enough to come in on Stealth Rock twice from full health, should I accidentally come in on Trick. The Timid nature and Speed EVs put me at 300 Speed, enough to outpace neutral base 100 Pokemon. The rest is dumped in Special Attack for a little extra punch.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Well, that's my team. Say whatever you want about it, but it's been doing pretty nicely. Have fun!
  2. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast Danned Beucer.
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    Importable and pending threatlist

    Importable:
    Code:
    Genesect @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 Atk
    Hasty Nature
    - U-turn
    - Hidden Power [Ground]
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunder
    
    Politoed @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 Def / 248 HP / 8 SAtk
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Scald
    - Toxic
    - Encore
    - Substitute
    
    Empoleon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 252 HP / 156 SAtk / 100 SDef
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Roar
    - Toxic
    
    Donphan @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 128 Atk / 128 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Shard
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rapid Spin
    
    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 88 Def / 252 HP / 168 SDef
    Sassy Nature
    - Leech Seed
    - Spikes
    - Thunder Wave
    - Power Whip
    
    Tornadus-Therian @ Life Orb
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 Atk
    Naive Nature
    - Hurricane
    - Focus Blast
    - Superpower
    - U-turn
    Real threatlist pending (open)
    How does my team fare against OU's top threats?

    POLITOED
    Offensive sets are handled by Ferrothorn and Empoleon (watch out for Focus Blast!) and defensive ones can be treated the same way, although Scald burns are evil. I generally do okay against Rain teams.
    SCIZOR
    Donphan laughs at it.
    FERROTHORN
    Fire Blast even in the Rain roasts Ferrothorn.
    DRAGONITE
    Ferrothorn can handle it without Fire Punch, while Empoleon can take on variants lacking Superpower or Earthquake. Terrakion can revenge kill it, and Moltres can take off a nice chunk with Hurricane.
    HEATRAN
    Hell, Politoed beats this thing. Terrakion hits hard with Close Combat or EQ.
    JIRACHI
    Jirachi is a tricky little bastard. The typical SR / haxmaster set can be whacked with Earthquake, Fire Blast or Hydro Pump and doesn't like a Scald burn, and CM variants also don't like Earthquake. Ferrothorn can also handle all variants without Substitute with Thunder Wave and Leech Seed.
    BRELOOM
    Generally, Moltres ends up taking care of it. Even though it hits 5/6 of my team with super effective STAB, I haven't really had any problems with it.
    GLISCOR
    Doesn't like Scald, Hydro Pump or Ice Beam (Empoleon needs to hit it on the switch) and Donphan can Ice Shard versions without Toxic. Moltres does a number with Hurricane too.
    TYRANITAR
    Terrakion and Donphan would like a word with you, Tyranitar. My team is pretty well equipped to deal with common Sand Pokemon as well.
    TORNADUS-T
    STEALTH ROCK EVERYWHERE! Tornadus-T is tricky to take out, but with SR up it's limited to 75% HP at most, and most of my attacks can hit it hard on the switch. Politoed can usually take Focus Blast in a pinch, and Terrakion scares it out with Stone Edge.
    STARMIE
    Ferrothorn says hello. Empoleon can handle defensive variants or versions lacking an Electric move.
    WEIRDASS WASHING MACHINE (Rotom-W)
    I don't really have a solid answer to Rotom-W, although I can't say it's given me much trouble. Ferrothorn takes everything but Will-O-Wisp well and can paralyze or Seed it.
    THUNDURUS-T
    Donphan and Terrakion can work together to take it out, and Ferrothorn is a decent check. Usually, just keeping Stealth Rock up will wear it off quickly enough.
    SALAMENCE
    Ferrothorn takes everything but Fire Blast. If it decides to lock itself into Outrage or Fire Blast, there's a Pokemon to take that hit.
    FORRETRESS
    What doesn't counter Forretress?
    LATIOS
    Ferrothorn does enough here, and it hates Toxic.
    MAMOSWINE
    Jesus, why are so many of the top Pokemon handles by Ferrothorn? Empoleon can also handle a Choice-locked Icicle Crash.
    TERRAKION
    Donphan is pretty good at beating it, although a Banded Close Combat hurts.
    GENGAR
    Gengar is another Pokemon I don't have a solid answer to, but it tends to switch into Hurricanes for some reason...
    TENTACRUEL
    Earthquake makes Tentacruel run away in terror. Ferrothorn can Leech Seed Rain versions (fuck Liquid Ooze) and Thunder Wave cripples it.
    SKARMORY
    Fire Blast, Hydro Pump, Scald, Leech Seed, Thunder Wave, Encore maybe?
    NINETALES
    Ninetales itself is pretty easy to beat, and I haven't run into enough Sun teams to be confident against them. Moltres loves Sun though.
    VOLCARONA
    Terrakion and Empoleon.
    INFERNAPE
    Haven't found one, although the fire monkey needs more love... Donphan can take physical versions.
    GYARADOS
    Oof. Gyarados needs to be statused as soon as possible and Stealth Rock needs to be up, and if it has a Substitute it can sweep my team. Terrakion can revenge kill it 80% of the time (Stone Edge accuracy >_>) if it lacks Substitute.

    Particular Threats

    Jellicent - Because I'm weird and lack Thunder, I only have a shaky answer to it in the form of Ferrothorn or Hurricane's confusion rate. Terrakion's Stone Edge does a decent amount, but it's still a big threat.
    HydraRest Vaporeon - This thing is a bitch, as much fun as it is to use Leech Seed on it. Moltres can hax it a tad, and Ferrothorn can also use Power Whip, but that does next to nothing if I'm burned.
    Mienshao - Hi Jump Kick does massive damage to Donphan, and the only thing with a chance to take it out without a Sub is Terrakion, who gets OHKOd by that...
  3. Shining_Latios

    Shining_Latios

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    Hey neat team man, that Moltres set looks awesome! However, I do have some suggestions for your team. First off, use Sacred Sword or Rock Slide over Earthquake on Terrakion. Having Earthquake is pretty redundant as Close Combat basically has the same coverage. Sacred Sword helps you revenge Pokemon without any of your defenses being lowered, unlike Close Combat, but with the cost of some power. Rock Slide can be used for a more accurate, but weaker, Rock STAB which also has a flinch rate. As for dealing with Jellicent and Vaporeon, try running a Specs Rotom-W over Empoleon.

    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Rotom-W @ Choice Specs
    EVs: 112 HP / 252 Special Attack / 144 Special Defense
    Modest Nature
    Moves:
    - Hydro Pump
    - Thunder
    - Volt Switch
    - Trick / HP Grass


    This Rotom-W was designed to hit hard but still maintain special bulk and take hits like your Empoleon. Specs, Rain boosted Hydro Pump obliterates anything that doesn't resist it. Specs boosted STAB Thunder OHKO's both Vaporeon and Jellicent, two Pokemon you mentioned were threats to your team. Volt Switch is for scouting, gaining momentum, and it still unleashes a lot of damage due to Choice Specs. For the last move, you can use Trick to cripple walls, namely Blissey or Chansey or use HP Grass to nail Gastrodon, a common switch in to Rotom-W. I know you really like that Empoleon, but you should try and test out Rotom-W because it really does help out against Vaporeon and Jellicent. It also isn't that bad against Mienshao since Rotom-W is naturally bulky. Hope I helped.
  4. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast Danned Beucer.
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    I don't think I've actually used Earthquake yet, so I'll throw Sacred Sword on and keep it unless I start running into a massive number of Raichu or something. I'll test Rotom-W too (I can't believe I just said that), but what nature should I run? I'm assuming Modest, but you didn't mention that...
  5. Shining_Latios

    Shining_Latios

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    Yeah, it basically has the same coverage as Close Combat. Oh and yes, Modest. Sorry I edited it a bit late.
  6. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte Spring break, motherfucker
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    Hi,

    You've got a really great team here- with an awesome use of Moltres, it's very unique. There aren't any massive holes in the team, and since you're quite the experienced player, I'm sure you can play around any threats you face, especially since this team is so flexible.

    One thing I'm noticing is however, your lack of Rain use. All you have is Politoed's Scald, Empoleons's Hydro Pump, and Moltres's Hurricane that actually rely on Rain. (and, Ferrothorn's fire weakness, but really that doesn't count.) Since you say that you really think Rain is necessary, I think it would be a good idea to throw in some rain sweepers, so Politoed isn't just a mediocre use of a teamslot.

    I think Moltres should go. It doesn't really help much except hit Sun teams, which, are handled by Donphan / Terrakion / Empoleon. Its Fire Blast is also expendable; it doesn't hit anything that isn't hit by Terrakion. I think you should replace Moltres with Tornadus- I know, cliche, but it really is very effective in the rain. Take note; I did not say Tornadus-T; the lack of power really hurt in your case, especially because Tornadus doesn't get STAB in Heat Wave.

    Tornadus @ Life Orb
    4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid nature
    ~Hurricane
    ~Heat Wave
    ~Focus Blast
    ~Rain Dance / Taunt

    Tornadus is a bit weaker than Moltres; his Hurricane is stronger however his Heat Wave is much weaker. Still, he gets Focus Blast, which hits Tyranitar, and is much faster than Moltres. With Prankster Rain Dance you won't have to worry about losing a weather war. It also has Taunt, which stops other pokemon from setting up on you.

    Smaller changes:
    Politoed needs to be physically bulky, with 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD Bold. You already have a fantastic Special wall, Empoleon, so investing in defense is a better option.
    Empoleon needs roar instead of Protect. It allows you to phaze Volcorona out, handling it better than Toxic stall.
    Donphan needs a more offensive spread- 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe Adamant. It's priority Ice Shard a is very valuable revenging strategy.

    That's all for now- good luck!
  7. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast Danned Beucer.
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    Shining Latios, I tried Rotom-W and didn't like it at all. It doesn't have nearly as much bulk, and while the power was nice I didn't find it particularly useful. Not to mention that a Hydreigon basically 5-0'd me...

    Electrolyte, I'll try Tornadus and maybe Roar, but the other changes I don't find too appealing, as I rely on Donphan and Politoed to take hits.

    In other news, BUMPer cars!
  8. TehLulleBulle

    TehLulleBulle

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    If the Donphan is gone, Rock Polish Terrakion ohkos every single pokemon.
  9. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast Danned Beucer.
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    Thank you for your excellent contribution to this thread, TehLulleBulle. I will make sure that Donphan stays alive every single time I see a Terrakion even though Rock Polish is perhaps its least common set. Thank you again for your oh so valuable input! Okay, maybe that was a bit uncalled for :\

    EDIT @The Great Mighty Doom: I would never go without Ice Shard on Donphan; being able to finish off a Dragonite or any Therian and having the only priority move on the entire team is much too important to give up. I'm also going to test Roar on Empoleon anyway. Terrakion's third slot could be Round for all the use I get out of it, and Stone Edge generally hits when I need to revenge something (it's when I subsequently try to pull a sweep with it that it misses...), although I guess I could try it out.
  10. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
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    Hey Arcticblast,
    you may want to try out Roar over Ice Shard on Donphan. Tbh I dont really see the need for Ice Shard on this team, dragons are covered with your 2 Steel types (one of them with Ice beam) and Terrakion. Other than that Ice Shard is too weak on defensive Donphan to really kill anything notable. Roar is an amazing move on Donphan and supplies some awesome emergency phazing, and it's great on this team to rack up some hazard damage with your Spikes and Stealth Rocks.

    You should try out Rock Slide over Earthquake or Sacred Sword, although Earthquake is good mostly for Toxicroak who resists your dual STABs and hitting pokemon such as Jirachi and Tentacruel a bit harder than your Dual STABs would, it really isn't necessary on this particular team because you already have Toxicroak covered with Moltres and Donphan. Rock Slide is great for revenge killing when you don't want to risk the accuracy of the terrible move known as Stone Edge, there are many times when you may have a well played game in the bag but then Stone Edge misses and you lose. Although Rock Slide lacks power you only use it in a situation where Rock Slide will KO the thing you are trying to revenge kill but you dont need the power and shaky accuracy of Stone Edge. Shining Latios has already suggested Sacred Sword, but Close Combat is 100% accurate anyway and the defense drops are almost never relevant.

    Anyway I hope these small sugestions helped, and GL with the team :)
  11. branhoff

    branhoff

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    Moltres! That's pretty awesome! Personally, I have had a lot of bad luck with pokemon super weak to stealth rock. I had a Yanmega team I really liked but having to fear stealth rock so heavily just made Yanmega not worth it anymore. I see you're testing out Tornadus over Moltres. Probably a better choice if the purpose is hurricane sweeper.
  12. alkinesthetase

    alkinesthetase <@dtc> every day with alk is a bad day
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    i'm not much of a team rater so i don't usually post in here, but i have a lot of love for donphan and i think the fact that it carries type-advantageous priority is one of the best things about it (besides the fact that it, yknow, learns rapid spin), so i will weigh in. that being noted, i will say this: donphan's ice shard is crap awful weak. having only 40 power and not even stab behind it REALLY sucks. you need 16 atk EVs with adamant, or 128 without, to guarantee 50% minimum on 0/4 dragonite with its multiscale down. this is a good place to start, imo, if you're looking for a more aggressive spread. sadly that's a lot of investment - either you have to change natures, or dump a ton of EVs. that's what you get for trying to use a 40 power move lol. i'd frankly rather run stone edge 90% of the time (2x stone edge is already stronger than unstabbed 4x ice shard) but as you yourself noted, the priority can be really really useful, and i too would rather run ice shard than stone edge on donphan if i could only choose one.

    i tend to use this as my benchmark, because if nite comes in through rocks and decides to roost (to try to restore its scales), i can knock off the roosted health before scales come into play and thereby stall dnite's recovery out with ice shard. (ice shard having a crapton of PP is REALLY helpful in situations like these) if it attempts to boost or attack even once it dies to the second hit on the next turn and there's no way it's gonna OHKO me without a super effective move (standard dnite rarely carries something to hit donphan super effectively) which is good enough for me. this was on a sand team so i was guaranteed to be breaking scales/negating leftovers, which also helps. plus the whole time it's trying to stall me, i'm getting leftovers recovery (especially nice if in sand because that means dnite is not getting any recovery where as i am) and slowly my sturdy will come back into play if dnite thinks it can troll me. if that happens the opponent's team in general is now really really screwed because donphan with an active sturdy is actually a viable revenge killer. the combination of sturdy and priority is absolutely beautiful on donphan because if it gets a safe switch in that means it can eq for a strong hit as it's knocked to 1HP, and then survive to finish off the target with ice shard. i pulled this off against a friend's rivalry haxorus once, coming in as it DD'd, and it won me the game. (he forgot to give it mold breaker, which would have cracked my sturdy. hah.)

    be advised that you need 252+ investment for your ice shard to hit 50% minimum on 252/4 dragonite. (with the 16+ investment, against 252/4 dragonite, you deal 50% MAXIMUM. yeah it's that weak) that's a LOT and i don't think you'd be willing to go that far in reducing donphan's bulk. in addition, dnite that are carrying that much HP investment are almost always carrying leftovers, and since this is a rain team, those leftovers would let dnite stall its way back into play (252+ ice shard deals up to 59%, so maybe you'll win, but maybe you won't), so i would forget about hurting those variants. in situations like that i prefer to have stone edge so i can play mindgames with the dnite - if it roosts it risks me ice sharding, which means it just wasted pp, but if it doesn't roost maybe i'll stone edge instead which will hit harder (overcoming its lefties recovery), doing too much damage for it to take another shard next turn which would put it beyond hope of being saved. however since you're running rocks on your donphan, there is no slot to run stone edge so this is out of the question.

    obviously this investment also fares well against non-intimidating landorus (ie landorus-I) or salamence, both of who also take more than 50% minimum from that ice shard. neither of those mons have super effective coverage on you (okay so maybe landorus's HP ice? but with scarf and no investment it's hardly ever a 2HKO) so you can win those matchups easily. it should go without saying that you're not even gonna touch gliscor with an unstabbed 40 power ice shard lol. obviously mence with intimidate, or landorus-T, will also be able to tank it since at -1 you won't be accomplishing much. i would also forget about trying to score strong hits on 2x weak mons with your ice shard, eg tornadus-T. for example the suggested investment deals only 37% max to non-hasty tornadus-T - enough damage to be erased by a single shot of regenerator. you simply don't have enough type advantage against these mons for ice shard to pack a worthwhile amount of power. even your 252+ ice shard fails to get above max 44% vs tornadus-T. you'll have to settle for picking it off after it's been severely weakened.
  13. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast Danned Beucer.
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    Bumping because I've made some big changes to the team. I actually started building a team around Genesect and ended up rebuilding this team! Donphan is just so good...

    Empoleon now has Roar over Protect (Thanks Electrolyte!)
    Politoed's EV spread is now Bold 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA (Thanks Electrolyte!)
    Donphan's EVs are now 252 HP / 128 Atk / 128 Def with an Impish nature (thanks alkinesthetase!)
    Moltres has been replaced with a Choice Scarf Genesect
    Terrakion has been replaced with a Life Orb Tornadus-T

    What does this mean for the team? It's now much more offensive in nature. While it's having a little more trouble with weather wars, I can usually get around that and end up basically smashing everything with Tornadus-T or Genesect.

    EDIT: Thanks alkin (again).
  14. alkinesthetase

    alkinesthetase <@dtc> every day with alk is a bad day
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    small nitpick: most tornadus-T only run hasty/naive because they carry superpower for pink blobs. if you choose not to run superpower i'd rather go with timid. u-turn is pretty damn weak on tornadus-T without investment honestly and hurricane's neutral coverage is good enough that i don't see very many situations where the extra power to uturn will matter. nothing that resists both flying and fighting is taking neutral damage or better from bug anyway and your 2x uturn still has less power than a stab hurricane. in other words i would say the damage from uturn is useless anyway, so might as well go timid over hasty. with defenses left neutral, your uninvested spdef is still greater than your uninvested def so you don't have to fear a +1 satk from download, except now you aren't quite as priority vulnerable cough mamoswine (for example CB mamo's ice shard almost always OHKOs hasty tornadus-T but only 25% chance to OHKO neutral tornadus-T).
  15. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast Danned Beucer.
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    I need a little help - there are two moves I haven't been using much if at all. These are Tornadus-T's HP Ice and Genesect's Bug Buzz. I've also been having trouble dealing with Chansey/Blissey and Sun teams. What can I do here?

    Also, more rates would be cool.
  16. Valhalla

    Valhalla

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    ^^

    A few suggestions.

    Run a Naive nature on Tornadus and Superpower over Focus Blast. It does more to Chansey and Blissey and destroys Tyranitar without a Chople Berry (plus, 100% accuracy).

    Also, about Genesect, replace Bug Buzz with HP Ground. It OHKOes scarfed Heatran easily and I believe it can 2HKO specially defensive Heatran after a Download boost. You could also try HP Ground on Tornadus-T (though I would not reccomend it, because Hurricane will not OHKO a bulky Dragonite even after Multiscale is broken).

    Hope I helped.
  17. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast Danned Beucer.
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    My only issue with replacing Focus Blast is that I don't have a particularly strong Fighting move, since I'm not investing in Tornadus-T's Attack stat. Don't get me wrong, I'd love Superpower, but I'm afraid I'll lose something important if I don't keep it. I'll actually test it over HP Ice on Tornadus-T (that should make for some interesting mindgames...). As for Genesect, I was pretty much waiting on somebody to confirm that it works, so okay :D

    EDIT: Hi! If you're reading this, I got here before you, so you can't necrobump this. I rarely use this team now, but it's still a relatively solid team with few major problems. Go ahead and steal it - I'd be honored if you did!
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