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Forgetting Genesect.

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Mon, Nov 22, 2012.

  1. Mon

    Mon

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    16
    INTRODUCTION
    So, after much lurking on the OU suspect thread, it looks like Genesect is probably going to Ubers. This is terrible news for me, the introduction of Genesect into the metagame saw my ladder rating on PS rise by about 300, So this team is my scramble to find something else that works, you know, well. My first team went 1 for 4 on the suspect ladder. This team seems MUCH better, and has had good results against the mixed showdown playerbase.

    So here it is

    [​IMG]
    Deoxys-Defense @ Mental Herb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Def
    Calm Nature
    - Taunt
    - Stealth Rock
    - Spikes
    - Thunder Wave

    [​IMG]
    Breloom @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Bullet Seed
    - Spore
    - Mach Punch
    - Swords Dance

    [​IMG]
    Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Modest Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power [Ghost]
    - Icy Wind

    [​IMG]
    Volcarona (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flame Body
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Modest Nature
    - Bug Buzz
    - Fiery Dance
    - Quiver Dance
    - Roost

    [​IMG]
    Horace (Kingdra) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SAtk
    - Rain Dance
    - Dragon Dance- Waterfall
    - Outrage

    [​IMG]
    Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
    Impish Nature
    - Substitute
    - Dragon Tail
    - Roost
    - Hone Claws

    Team Plan
    That has never happened
    So the aim of the team is to get up entry hazards, knock some holes in the other side with Sashloom, then phaze team withKyurem-b, and then finally sweep with Volcarona/Kingdra. Keldeo is there for damage control.
    This, of course, has never actually happened, against rain teams, for example, the goal becomes to remove ferro so Kingdra can remind everyone why drizzle/swift swim was banned.
    With this team I tend find myself a few pokemon behind on the ko count, but sweeping to win because the ones that I took out were the respective walls for my sweepers

    [​IMG]
    Deoxys-d
    This set is for getting down my hazards, and stopping the other person from doing the same most of all, for example; lead Terrakion, combining mental herb, taunt and thunderwave turns them into dead weight for the rest of the match, Stone edge has a 60% chance to make contact if they're paralysed, so if they make the mistake of staying in you're going to get up all of your hazards, if they switch, the switch in gets taunted, making prediction a whole lot easier. It's kinda a suicide lead with no attacks, so after rocks and spikes are up it just becomes sacking material, or a last ditch attempt to stop a set up sweeper in its tracks. It does its job, and a bit more.

    [​IMG]
    Breloom
    Ran across Sashloom in the RMT "The Art of Peer Pressure" by Gary the Gengar and CTC, I gave it a go and it has worked wonders, credit where credit is due. The guarantee of putting to sleep one of the opponents Pokemon, often Tornadus-t or a Lati@s, and the havok it can cause afterwards is a great thing to have on my team. He does end up as fodder in most games, especially when it means I can take out something like Ferrothorn or Heatran, or one of my sweepers can avoid coming in on a status move.

    [​IMG]
    Keldeo
    I never actually used a scarf Genesect for very long, I preferred trolling people with e-belt, but Keldeo seems to be at least as good, for this team. The main gripe with this is how weak icy wind is, I have never really benefited from the side effect, and Keldeo losing to Garchomp because it failed to ohko after spikes put me in a really awkward position. But the revenge killing has been really useful, as has out-speeding Tornadus-T

    [​IMG]
    Volcarona
    After Heatran and pink blobs are gone this guy does amazingly well. Even with stealth rock up, this pokemon can do his best Ho-oh impression if you bring him in at the right time on something that doesn't threaten him(the Ferrothorn that just set up rocks for example). Fiery dance is chosen over fireblast for accuracy, and flamethower for the additional boosts. Roost is there for QD shenanigans. Max power and speed for outspeeding all scarfers at +2.

    [​IMG]
    Kingdra
    Rain is pain. But Kingdra has done a great job so far of giving rain teams a bruising over. I have all the usual problems with ferro,but if ferro has tried to take on Breloom after its on 1hp, or switched into Keldeo's hydropump a couple of times +1 waterfall in the rain does a surprising amount. I run Raindance for stuffing with the other's weather, and cleaning late game. Dragon/Water coverage is pretty nice, apart from Ferrothorn. I haven't felt like I have been missing anything. Does well against sun aswell, timely raindances can put in a of of pressure, especially because ninetails can't switch in to a +1 outrage with stealth rock up.

    [​IMG]
    Kyurem-b.
    His uninvested attack is higher than Breloom's at 252 (neutral). Which means that full defensive investment and makes him incredibly bulky, capable of taking an outrage from pretty much every OU dragon except itself, and possibly Haxorus and still capable of dishing out the pain. It has proven slightly difficult to get in, but once in it is going to stay there, barring bad phazing match ups. Hone claws prevents dragontail misses after one boost, combine that with 101 hp+ subs and comparable bulk to Skarmory. With the only switching move able to break its sub being that of Scizor, and roost for instant recovery he's been a very valuable member of my team.

    Notable Problems

    So I have noticed that hazards really do cramp the style of this team, Deoxys or Breloom can keep them of the field at the start reasonably well, but if they do go down sometime, toxic spikes especially, things can get quite messy. The closest battle I had was against a monoghost, Gengar tore the team apart. Since then I've given Keldeo it's scarf and changed the weird set I had on Volcarona so it can now set up on sub disable Gengar. Offence is the best defence.

    So this is my first post, and I don't want to set any records with regards to terrible posts, If you see anything missing don't hesitate to point it out.
  2. undisputed

    undisputed
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Frontier Lackeyis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2009
    Messages:
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    Hey!

    Solid team. Deoxys-D teams are very dangerous, and I think you have a good mix of sweepers. The only Pokemon I'm worried about is Kyurem-b. I don't think it fits well on your team, much less the set you've chosen. Instead, I think you could really benefit from some Steel power (really the best defensive type in the game), and a way of eliminating defensive Starmie.

    To accomplish this, I'm going to recommend Choice Band Scizor over Kyurem-b. Not only will it give you a bulky, hard-hitting defensive Pivot, but it will also use Pursuit to trap those annoying Starmie. On top of that, Scizor will be a great check to Dragons like Dragonite, Lati@s, etc that just run you over right now. If Dragonite got a DD, all it would have to do is click Outrage for at least one kill. If Keldeo is dead, you would lose the entire battle to Outrage. A Life Orb Latios would be even worse. You have no way to kill that. Scizor will do a great job rectifying this problem for you.

    After that, I have a couple minor suggestions. Use Giga Drain instead of Roost on Volcarona. I don't like Roost that much when you don't control the weather. Giga Drain will give you a pseudo Recovery move anyway. Most importantly, you're able to beat Terrakion after a Quiver Dance. I think the times where Roost will be better than Giga Drain are few and far between. For you consideration, you could also try Lum Berry on Volcarona. If you do, change your nature to Timid. Lum Berry has the great perk of allowing you to set up vs. opposing Lead Deoxys-D's at the start of the match. Sometimes you can pull off a straight up sweep.

    If you don't feel like you're getting enough power out of Breloom, or you're finding that Breloom doesn't come in with full health, I'd highly recommend Life Orb. I think it's the best item for Breloom in almost every situation. Always having a boosted Mach Punch is huge because you'll kill tons of threats.

    Good luck!
  3. Mon

    Mon

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    16
    Thanks heaps I can't say I'm really noticing any lack of power on loom, and the Pokemon that the sashed spore can take out are often quite important to the other teams strategy, plus, I now have a banded Scizor :) But I'll keep this in mind
    And yeh, the only reason I've won my battles against dragon spam is that Kingdra got set up first, so I think I'll take your advice about swapping out Kyurem-b for Scizor, and the same with Giga-drain over roost on Volc. That should give Keldeo a nasty surprise as well.
  4. GaryTheGengar

    GaryTheGengar believe me sweety I've got enough to feed the needy

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    136
    Hey man, pretty good team. Nice to see a deo-d team vary from the standard sweepers they usually do.

    I'd definitely go with undisputed's suggestion of giga drain on volc. 3 attacks volc is a monster, and can tear through many common playstyles, even rain now that you're running giga drain. I'd suggest running timid and a life orb, as giga somewhat offsets the recoil, while life orb gives you a power boost. Timid is really useful to speed tie base 100 scarfers, such as salamence. I'd also suggest running a timid nature on keldeo, as getting the jump on base 100s, while speed tying with scarf terrakion is pretty huge. Hp Ghost is mainly for calm mind sets, I'd try running hp ice over it, and using surf over icy wind for situations where you can't afford to miss. I'm glad you like scarfloom, but that was a really team specific pokemon for my team. I'd assume that you lead with deo-d most of the time, and hazards often come up later in the game. I don't like life orb recoil on my breloom, you might feel the same. try fight gem in that situation. If you really like the boost to bullet seed and don't mind the recoil, go with life orb like undisputed mentioned.

    One thing I noticed is that you're going to have trouble with hazards. You have no ghost to block rapid spin, and you also have a very hazard weak team yourself. Unfortunately, no ghost type gets rapid spin. You could try starmie over kingdra, to support your kyurem and volcorona. I like what you're doing with kingdra, using it to beat other weathers, but three water types would be too much, and starmie is really the only viable offensive spinner. If you really want to dictate weather, you could try using a weather changing move on starmie, such as rain dance or hail.

    Another option would be using a ghost over kyurem-b, to somewhat lessen your hazard weakness. This also lets you keep your hazards down in the face of spinners. I'll leave the set up to you if you decide to go down that road, as which set you use determines which spinners you can and can't block.

    Nice first post dude, and welcome to smogon!
  5. Mon

    Mon

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    16
    Thanks again. Yeh, aside from the shameless theft of sashloom; I have found it doing extremely well on my team, I do often lead with it, if something looks like it's going to give deoxys a hard time, or someone is running generic rain. Writing the RMT I was pretty concious of the fact that one of the most effective pokemon on my team was from the RMT right below me that had over 100 luvdisks :/
    Swapping out Cube for Scizor has made my team a little bit more resistant to stealth rock, and spinning more difficult for Starmie. Other spinners tend to have a worse time of it, as lum volc can now set up on all of the common ones I can think of.
    I do see the need for a spinner, but having made most of undisputed's changes I'm no longer sure where to put it
  6. malomyotismon

    malomyotismon

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2008
    Messages:
    348
    On iPhone so this will be brief if your after an offensive ds and anti rappid spinner then I would go for starmie and gengar over keldeo and kingdra. This would makes your team look more like mine but who cares may as well use the best eh?
  7. Mon

    Mon

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
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    So after making a few changes of the changes, i am now getting destroyed by HO. My team cant keep pace with them. Kingdra is also having problems sweeping with LO recoil..
  8. malomyotismon

    malomyotismon

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    as i said before you need gengar to block rappid pin and keep up the momentum or there i a high chance you will loose all your hazard set up by deoyxs-d.
  9. shrang

    shrang Go to your room
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

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    The very first thing I notice when I look at this team is the lack of a Rapid Spinner when you're using Volcarona. Always carry a Rapid Spinner, or at least a Magic Bounce Pokemon if you're going to be using Volcarona. I normally hate this Pokemon, but Donphan seems a good replacement if you want SR and Rapid Spin in the same spot. Otherwise, what everyone else had said pretty much applies in my post.

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