Forretress (BW2 Revamp) [QC 3/3] [GP 2/3]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Doughboy, Dec 15, 2012.

  1. PttP

    PttP I'M THE JETSONS YOU THE FLINTSTONES
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    horribly sorry about not approving this earlier

    [​IMG]

    [QC APPROVED 2/3]

    make sure in the final draft you correct the capitalization of toxic spikes

    i would also like you to mention tyranitar as a teammate for its ability to get rid of jellicent and add residual damage


  2. Pocket

    Pocket Nyanko Sensei >:3
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    I approve Dark Fallen Angel's message - please add.

    Additional Comments

    ~ AC mention double spikes, since RaikouLover does have a point that having both can come in handy in certain situations. Plus 1 Spikes + 1 TSpikes inflicts more damage than 3 layers of Spikes. Not all teams carry TSpikes users, so it'll certainly see use.

    ~ 148 Atk EVs to OHKO Terrakion after 2 SR switch-ins / 1 layer of Spikes and to OHKO min HP Heatran / Magnezone after SR, but mention that the loss of bulk is usually not worth it

    ~ Change the alternative SpA EVs for HP Ice to 44 SpA EVs to 2HKO 200 HP Landorus-T after SR and lefties.

    Other Options

    ~ Remove OO mention of Custap Berry since you have already mentioned it under AC

    Checks and Counters - this section is seriously lacking

    ~ Add Sableye in a group of spinblockers

    ~ Magnezone :0 Gothitelle, too

    ~ Bulky Water-types: Tentacruel shrugs off any attack Forretress throws at it, and can spin hazards or threaten a scald burn; Rotom-W is immune to Spikes and Gastrodon is immune to Volt Switch. Politoed DGF either, and it will retaliate with Scald burns or choiced Surfs.

    ~ Ferrothorn and Forretress have a funny relationship in that they counter each other. In one hand, Forretress can switch into Ferrothorn with ease and spin away its hazards, but in the flip side, Ferrothorn can easily wear Forretress down with a combination of Iron Barbs + Leech Seed. If you want a Spiker that can pester Forretress, Ferrothorn is one of em.

    ~ Donphan takes pittance from Forretress's HP Ice and can spin, set its own rocks, or simply EQ Forretress for good damage.

    ~ Fire-types, not simply Heatran - Volcarona, Ninetales, Infernape, Victini, Chandelure, Rotom-H, etc. The list goes on.

    ~ I guess you can also add Zapdos, since it can easily set up a Substitute on Forretress or outright kill it with Heat Wave.
  3. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    Could you AC or OO mention Red Card? It works well with Sturdy, allowing you to lay hazards in the face of any setup sweeper without fear. There's also that nice chance of bringing in a great big piece of setup bait when the opponent attacks you (similar to how it's used on Deoxys-D).

    Also, I don't think I've ever used a Forretress with only toxic spikes. The chance of them being useless is too high. They can be a totally game-changing option sometimes, way more than spikes, but you need forretress to be able to do something useful when toxic spikes are not. So I would recommend that you slash toxic spikes with either Volt Switch or Gyro Ball / HP Ice if you are to slash it at all. Probably best just to mention it in AC or, unconventionally, in set comments.
  4. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
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    Bump for 3rd QC check since the analysis is written. Editing for smaller errors in the analysis as of now.
  5. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    Placeholder for grammar / quality check. Is this the first one of those ever??

    (note: this is clearly mostly fine, so I don't think we need to worry too much about the grammar on the coming QC changes)

    Content stuff will be in green, changes will be in blue, and removals in red.

    Make sure you fix the curly apostrophes.

    DOUBLE STAMP:

    [qc]3/3[/qc][gp]1/2[/gp]

    edit - that didn't come out as I'd expected lol
  6. Pocket

    Pocket Nyanko Sensei >:3
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    double stamp, what a boss!
  7. ginganinja

    ginganinja Goodbye
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    what happened to the Custap Berry mention that Pocket and I wanted somewhere :(
  8. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Also move Pain Split from OO to AC.
  9. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    The custap berry mention is there. He just spelt it wrong, copying you when you also did so earlier, so it didn't turn up in your search. Also re Pain split OO/AC thing, all the items listed fit perfectly well on the same set, and could really all go in AC. I don't think it's all that important.

    edit: if one QC member thinks something doesn't matter, but another has a preference, what do you think you should do?
  10. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming The truth is in my hands
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    ThePillsburyDoughBoy, you need to move Cutsap to the AC of the first set, as you've been told twice already.

    EDIT: And move Pain Split to AC as well.
  11. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
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    Implemented the check in the OP.

    @PKGaming i thought jc104 said it didn't matter but ok
  12. Redew

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    had to rush half of OO and the rest of it

    i would also like to ask for a third check on this

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    [OVERVIEWverview]
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    <p>When one thinks of Forretress, one word springs to mind: utility. Forretress's role in OU is defined by its use of the semi-exclusive Rapid Spin to clear entry hazards from the field. With Rapid Spin, it eases the use and extends the longevity for a wide range of pPokemon including, for example,, such as Dragonite and Thundurus-T. The use of Rapid Spin also acts as a line of defense against teams which heavily rely on residual damage from entry hazards. In addition, Forretress occupies a unique niche among Rapid Spinn users in that it has access to all three entry hazards. This makes Forretress flexible; it can allow your Pokemon to sweep or to stall. Perhaps what sets Forretress furthest apart from other spinners is its Steel typing and high dDefense, making it one of the best Pokemon to tank the powerful Outrages and other physical moves thrown around in the OU tier.</p>

    <p>Forretress is not without its severe disappointments. While it is the spinner that can have the highest number of utilities on a team, it is also the easiest to spinblock. Forretress's lack of powerful offensive moves outside of Gyro Ball means OU's premier spinblockers, &mdash;Jellicent and Sableye, &mdash;will have no problem coming in and tanking (if you can even call it that) a hit to block Rapid Spin. While Forretress can do little back, Jellicent and Sableye will be more than happy to cripple it with Will-O-Wisp, while Gengar can wreck it with a powerful special move. The same lack of offensive presence means Forretress is setup bait for the numerous sweepers in OU. Thus, a solid plan for dealing with setup sweepers is necessary when running Forretress. Lastly, Forretress lacks any means of reliable recovery outside of Leftovers, so it is very prone to being worn down by the hazards it is designated to remove and the hits it is designated to tank. Altogether Forretress's support can open many doors for your team, but without a solid plan for dealing with setup sweepers or spinblockers, your team might be opened up itself.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Rapid Spin
    move 1: Rapid Spin
    move 2: Spikes / Stealth Rock
    move 3: Volt Switch
    move 4: Gyro Ball / Hidden Power Ice
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Sturdy
    nature: Relaxed
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    ivs: 0 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Forretress's placement on a team should be for one reason alone: Rapid Spin. Without Rapid Spin, other Steel-types such as Ferrothorn and Skarmory are superior choices. Forretress's secondary function outside of Rapid Spinning is to tank hits, especially physical ones, for its teammates. With maximum physical dDefense investment, Forretress becomes a handy tool to take the powerful Outrages thrown out by dDragons and easily spins against opposing Pokemon that rely on weaker physical moves.</p>

    <p>Rapid Spin with an accompanying hazard of choice will allow Forretress to support its teammates whether it be in the endeavor of sweeping or stalling. Spikes is the more exclusive of the two entry hazards listed and is more effective in wearing down the spinblockers Forretress has to combat. However, if your team is lacking a Stealth Rock user, Stealth Rock can be used instead of Spikes. Volt Switch is perhaps the best attacking move in Forretress's arsenal. N; not only can it be used to escape Magnezone, but it can also be used to act as a pivot for your team. Forretress is the slowest user of Volt Switch in the game, so it can effectively tank a hit for a teammate and switch out with Volt Switch to make sure your frailer, but more offensively inclined, Pokemon can come in safely. In the last slot, Forretress can run one move to prevent becoming setup bait for certain Pokemon. Forretress's slow sSpeed and Steel typing makes Gyro Ball its most powerful move. Meanwhile, Hidden Power Ice is more effective in taking on Gliscor and Dragons 4x weak to Ice. However, generally it is a very weak morve and generally misses out on Terrakion and Tyranitar in terms of coverage.</p>


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Relaxed nature and 0 Speed IVs give the most powerful Gyro Ball possible and the slowest Volt Switch possible, which enables Forretress to get a safe switch in for another Pokemon when facing a variety of targets. If you are using Hidden Power Ice, you should use 44 Special Attack EVs with a Bold nature to 2HKO 200 HP Landorus-T after Leftovers. Another alternative EV spread has 144 Attack EV's, which can be used to OHKO Terrakion after 2 Stealth Rock switch ins and to OHKO minimum HP Magnezone and Heatran with Earthquake. However, using 144 Attack EV's compromises a lot on bulk, so much so that it's not worth using. As for other alternative moves, Toxic Spikes can be used over an attacking move or a hazard. By having two hazards on Forretress, one can choose the hazard in a battle that most appropriately fits the situation (i.e. Spikes or Toxic Spikes).) It should be noted, however, that Toxic Spikes haves very limited use in OU, more so than in other tiers. For example, Sun teams often carry Venusaur while rain teams carry Tentacruel or Toxicroack. 27 Pokemon in OU are not affected by Toxic Spikes (29 if counting the benefits gained by Conkeldurr and Breloom with their appropriate abilities), so, in many battles, they will find little use at all. Additionally, running an extra hazard over a move will compromise for Forretress's ability to spin well and prevent itself from becoming setup bait. Earthquake can be used over an attacking move to prevent Jirachi or Lucario from setting up on you. Earthquake also does heavy damage to Heatran and Forretress, who would otherwise switch -in freely. Pain Split lets Forretress have a semi-reliable means of recovery and mitigates the need for a Wish passer. In addition, Pain Split allows Forretress to beat Ferrothorn 1 vs 1, whereas before Ferrothorn could win and prevent Rapid Spin with a combination of Leech Seed and Iron Barbs. In itsthe item slot, Custap Berry can be used instead of Leftovers so Forretress can hang on with Sturdy and effectively pull out a priority Rapid Spin or a hazard of choice.</p>

    <p>When selecting teammates for Forretress, its tendency to become setup bait, susceptibility to spinblockers, and its lack of reliable recovery should be kept in mind. Pokemon with the ability Intimidate, such as Gyarados, Salamence, and Landorus-T, are good partners sincbecause they mitigate the initial boosts of Pokemon attempting to raise their attack on Forretress. Choice Scarf users and priority users are also good teammates, sincbecause if a Pokemon sets up on Forretress and Forretress Volt Switches out, they can proceed to KO even boosted threats. Phazers also do well to prevent boosted threats making an impact on your team if they set up on Forretress. Pokemon with powerful Pursuits make great teammates since they can remove the spinblockers that Forretress has a lot of trouble with. Tyranitar is the best, sinc because it can cover Forretress's nasty Fire-type weakness and provide Sandstorm for additional residual damage. Wish passers are great assets to Forretress, sinc because they prevent it being worn down by the physical attackers it is supposed to tank and the hazards it is supposed to remove. Vaporeon and Chansey get the nod over other Wish passers, due to their large HP stats and their ability to take special moves that might overwhelm Forretress.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Forretress can run a specially defensive spread in order sponge special attacks, particularly those from Dragons and Gengar, more easily. However, when considering that Forretress takes over half from Latios's Specs Draco Meteor (non-choice special dragons often carry a move to cripple Forretress ) and that bulky wWater-types can now burn Forretress with Scald, the niche that Specially Defensive Forretress had is now lost. Forretress can also run a multitude of different items effectively. Forretress can be used as a lead with Mental Herb, where he is impossible to Taunt and to OHKO. Meanwhile it can set up both Spikes and Stealth Rock while stopping opposing suicide leads at the same time with Rapid Spin. Red Card can be used with Sturdy to prevent Forretress from becoming setup bait and it gives you the freedom to set up as muchany hazards as you want while the opponent uselessly sets up. Lastly, Shed Shell can be used to prevent either Magnezone or Gothitelle from trapping you. Note that with Volt Switch and proper prediction, Forretress can prevent trapping from occurring.</p>

    <p>Forretress can play around with either its hazards or attacking options, and run a couple of other moves. Explosion can be used as a last ditch effort to prevent a Pokemon from setting up and to get a teammate in unscathed. However, the power nerf to Explosion this generation makes it an unappealing option. Toxic can be used to spread status and to cripple Sableye and Jellicent who might try to spinblock Forretress.</p>


    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Jellicent, Sableye, and Gengar deserve a special place among Forretress counters, sinc because they block Rapid Spin, which is Forretress's primary purpose. It should be noted that Gengar will take hefty damage from Forretress's Gyro Ball if the Forretress useryou predicts the Gengar switch-in correctly. Heatran can come in on most of Forretress's moves and wipe it off the face of the earth with its Fire-type STAB. Other Fire-types such as Volcarona and Infernape can do the same. Gothitelle and Magnezone can trap Forretress and prey on its 4x Fire weakness to KO with HP Fire. Gothitelle can also trick Forretress to lock it into a move where he is extremely easy to set up on. However, Forretress with Volt Switch have a chance to escape if the trappers do not immediately use HP Fire. Ferrothorn can come in on Forretress and proceed to set up hazards of its own, baiting Forretress to spin them. In the long run, Ferrothorn will beat Forretress 1 vs 1 with a combination of Iron Barbs and Leech Seed should the Forretress not carry Pain Split. Donphan takes little from Hidden Power Ice or Gyro Ball and can spin away all of its hazards while slowly chipping at its health with Earthquake. Gliscor can set up a Swords Dance or Substitute on Forretress and eventually force it out with repeated Earthquakes if Forretress does not have Hidden Power Ice. It can also prevent hazard set up with the use of Taunt. Thundurus-T, Garchomp, Landorus, Jirachi, and Terrakion can all set up on Forretress quite easily if it lacks the proper moves to do significant damage to them. Lastly, Xatu and Espeon can reflect the hazards Forretress sets up with proper prediction and hit back with a fatal Heat Wave or Hidden Power Fire.</p>


    c/p (open)
    [Overview]

    <p>When one thinks of Forretress, one word springs to mind: utility. Forretress's role in OU is defined by its use of the semi-exclusive Rapid Spin to clear entry hazards from the field. With Rapid Spin, it eases the use and extends the longevity for a wide range of Pokemon, such as Dragonite and Thundurus-T. The use of Rapid Spin also acts as a line of defense against teams which heavily rely on residual damage from entry hazards. In addition, Forretress occupies a unique niche among Rapid Spin users in that it has access to all three entry hazards. This makes Forretress flexible; it can allow your Pokemon to sweep or to stall. Perhaps what sets Forretress furthest apart from other spinners is its Steel typing and high Defense, making it one of the best Pokemon to tank the powerful Outrages and other physical moves thrown around in the OU tier.</p>

    <p>Forretress is not without its severe disappointments. While it is the spinner that can have the highest number of utilities on a team, it is also the easiest to spinblock. Forretress's lack of powerful offensive moves outside of Gyro Ball means OU's premier spinblockers&mdash;Jellicent and Sableye&mdash;will have no problem coming in and tanking (if you can even call it that) a hit to block Rapid Spin. While Forretress can do little back, Jellicent and Sableye will be more than happy to cripple it with Will-O-Wisp, while Gengar can wreck it with a powerful special move. The same lack of offensive presence means Forretress is setup bait for the numerous sweepers in OU. Thus, a solid plan for dealing with setup sweepers is necessary when running Forretress. Lastly, Forretress lacks any means of reliable recovery outside of Leftovers, so it is very prone to being worn down by the hazards it is designated to remove and the hits it is designated to tank. Altogether Forretress's support can open many doors for your team, but without a solid plan for dealing with setup sweepers or spinblockers, your team might be opened up itself.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Rapid Spin
    move 1: Rapid Spin
    move 2: Spikes / Stealth Rock
    move 3: Volt Switch
    move 4: Gyro Ball / Hidden Power Ice
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Sturdy
    nature: Relaxed
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    ivs: 0 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Forretress's placement on a team should be for one reason alone: Rapid Spin. Without Rapid Spin, other Steel-types such as Ferrothorn and Skarmory are superior choices. Forretress's secondary function outside of Rapid Spinning is to tank hits, especially physical ones, for its teammates. With maximum Defense investment, Forretress becomes a handy tool to take the powerful Outrages thrown out by Dragons and easily spins against opposing Pokemon that rely on weaker physical moves.</p>

    <p>Rapid Spin with an accompanying hazard of choice will allow Forretress to support its teammates whether it be in the endeavor of sweeping or stalling. Spikes is the more exclusive of the two entry hazards listed and is more effective in wearing down the spinblockers Forretress has to combat. However, if your team is lacking a Stealth Rock user, Stealth Rock can be used instead of Spikes. Volt Switch is perhaps the best attacking move in Forretress's arsenal; not only can it be used to escape Magnezone, but it can also be used to act as a pivot for your team. Forretress is the slowest user of Volt Switch in the game, so it can effectively tank a hit for a teammate and switch out with Volt Switch to make sure your frailer, but more offensively inclined, Pokemon can come in safely. In the last slot, Forretress can run one move to prevent becoming setup bait for certain Pokemon. Forretress's low Speed and Steel typing makes Gyro Ball its most powerful move. Meanwhile, Hidden Power Ice is more effective in taking on Gliscor and Dragons 4x weak to Ice. However, it is a very weak move and generally misses out on Terrakion and Tyranitar in terms of coverage.</p>


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Relaxed nature and 0 Speed IVs give the most powerful Gyro Ball possible and the slowest Volt Switch possible, which enables Forretress to get a safe switch in for another Pokemon when facing a variety of targets. If you are using Hidden Power Ice, you should use 44 Special Attack EVs with a Bold nature to 2HKO 200 HP Landorus-T after Leftovers. Another alternative EV spread has 144 Attack EVs, which can be used to OHKO Terrakion after 2 Stealth Rock switch ins and to OHKO minimum HP Magnezone and Heatran with Earthquake. However, using 144 Attack EVs compromises a lot on bulk, so much so that it's not worth using. As for other alternative moves, Toxic Spikes can be used over an attacking move or a hazard. By having two hazards on Forretress, one can choose the hazard in a battle that most appropriately fits the situation (i.e. Spikes or Toxic Spikes.) It should be noted, however, that Toxic Spikes has very limited use in OU, more so than in other tiers. For example, Sun teams often carry Venusaur while rain teams carry Tentacruel or Toxicroack. 27 Pokemon in OU are not affected by Toxic Spikes (29 if counting the benefits gained by Conkeldurr and Breloom with their appropriate abilities), so, in many battles, they will find little use at all. Additionally, running an extra hazard over a move will compromise for Forretress's ability to spin well and prevent itself from becoming setup bait. Earthquake can be used over an attacking move to prevent Jirachi or Lucario from setting up on you. Earthquake also does heavy damage to Heatran and Forretress, who would otherwise switch-in freely. Pain Split lets Forretress have a semi-reliable means of recovery and mitigates the need for a Wish passer. In addition, Pain Split allows Forretress to beat Ferrothorn 1 vs 1, whereas before Ferrothorn could win and prevent Rapid Spin with a combination of Leech Seed and Iron Barbs. In the item slot, Custap Berry can be used instead of Leftovers so Forretress can hang on with Sturdy and effectively pull out a priority Rapid Spin or a hazard of choice.</p>

    <p>When selecting teammates for Forretress, its tendency to become setup bait, susceptibility to spinblockers, and its lack of reliable recovery should be kept in mind. Pokemon with the ability Intimidate, such as Gyarados, Salamence, and Landorus-T, are good partners because they mitigate the initial boosts of Pokemon attempting to raise their attack on Forretress. Choice Scarf users and priority users are also good teammates, because if a Pokemon sets up on Forretress and Forretress Volt Switches out, they can proceed to KO even boosted threats. Phazers also do well to prevent boosted threats making an impact on your team if they set up on Forretress. Pokemon with powerful Pursuits make great teammates since they can remove the spinblockers that Forretress has a lot of trouble with. Tyranitar is the best because it can cover Forretress's nasty Fire-type weakness and provide Sandstorm for additional residual damage. Wish passers are great assets to Forretress because they prevent it being worn down by the physical attackers it is supposed to tank and the hazards it is supposed to remove. Vaporeon and Chansey get the nod over other Wish passers due to their large HP stats and their ability to take special moves that might overwhelm Forretress.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Forretress can run a specially defensive spread in order sponge special attacks, particularly those from Dragons and Gengar, more easily. However, when considering that Forretress takes over half from Latios's Specs Draco Meteor (non-choice special dragons often carry a move to cripple Forretress ) and that bulky Water-types can now burn Forretress with Scald, the niche that Specially Defensive Forretress had is now lost. Forretress can also run a multitude of different items effectively. Forretress can be used as a lead with Mental Herb, where he is impossible to Taunt and to OHKO. Meanwhile it can set up both Spikes and Stealth Rock while stopping opposing suicide leads at the same time with Rapid Spin. Red Card can be used with Sturdy to prevent Forretress from becoming setup bait and it gives you the freedom to set up as many hazards as you want while the opponent uselessly sets up. Lastly, Shed Shell can be used to prevent either Magnezone or Gothitelle from trapping you. Note that with Volt Switch and proper prediction, Forretress can prevent trapping from occurring.</p>

    <p>Forretress can play around with either its hazards or attacking options and run a couple of other moves. Explosion can be used as a last ditch effort to prevent a Pokemon from setting up and to get a teammate in unscathed. However, the power nerf to Explosion this generation makes it an unappealing option. Toxic can be used to spread status and to cripple Sableye and Jellicent who might try to spinblock Forretress.</p>


    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Jellicent, Sableye, and Gengar deserve a special place among Forretress counters because they block Rapid Spin, which is Forretress's primary purpose. It should be noted that Gengar will take hefty damage from Forretress's Gyro Ball if you predict the Gengar switch-in correctly. Heatran can come in on most of Forretress's moves and wipe it off the face of the earth with its Fire-type STAB. Other Fire-types such as Volcarona and Infernape can do the same. Gothitelle and Magnezone can trap Forretress and prey on its 4x Fire weakness to KO with HP Fire. Gothitelle can also trick Forretress to lock it into a move where he is extremely easy to set up on. However, Forretress with Volt Switch have a chance to escape if the trappers do not immediately use HP Fire. Ferrothorn can come in on Forretress and proceed to set up hazards of its own, baiting Forretress to spin them. In the long run, Ferrothorn will beat Forretress 1 vs 1 with a combination of Iron Barbs and Leech Seed should the Forretress not carry Pain Split. Donphan takes little from Hidden Power Ice or Gyro Ball and can spin away all of its hazards while slowly chipping at its health with Earthquake. Gliscor can set up a Swords Dance or Substitute on Forretress and eventually force it out with repeated Earthquakes if Forretress does not have Hidden Power Ice. It can also prevent hazard set up with the use of Taunt. Thundurus-T, Garchomp, Landorus, Jirachi, and Terrakion can all set up on Forretress quite easily if it lacks the proper moves to do significant damage to them. Lastly, Xatu and Espeon can reflect the hazards Forretress sets up with proper prediction and hit back with a fatal Heat Wave or Hidden Power Fire.</p>


    [gp]2/3[/gp]
  13. Woodchuck

    Woodchuck <kryptonite intensifies>
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    i guess you could say i took some time to re-dew this check
    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>When one thinks of Forretress, one word springs to mind: utility. Forretress's role in OU is defined by its use of the semi-exclusive Rapid Spin to clear entry hazards from the field. With Rapid Spin, it eases the use and extends the longevity ofor a wide range of Pokemon, such as Dragonite and Thundurus-T. The use of Rapid Spin also acts as a line of defense against teams whichthat heavily rely on residual damage from entry hazards. In addition, Forretress occupies a unique niche among Rapid Spin users in that it has access to all three entry hazards. This makes Forretress flexible; it can allow your Pokemon to sweep or to stall. Perhaps what sets Forretress furthest apart from other spinners is its Steel typing and high Defense, making it one of the best Pokemon to tank the powerful Outrages and other physical moves thrown around in the OU tier.</p>

    <p>Forretress is not without its severe disappointments. While it is the spinner that can havefill the highemost number of utilities on a team, it is also the easiest to spinblock. Forretress's lack of powerful offensive moves outside of Gyro Ball means OU's premier spinblockers&mdash;Jellicent and Sableye&mdash;will have no problem coming in and tanking (if you can even call it that) a hit to block Rapid Spin. While Forretress can do little back, Jellicent and Sableye will be more than happy to cripple it with Will-O-Wisp, while Gengar can wreck it with a powerful special move. The same lack of offensive presence means Forretress is setup bait for the numerous sweepers in OU. Thus, a solid plan for dealing with setup sweepers is necessary when running Forretress. Lastly, Forretress lacks any means of reliable recovery outside of Leftovers, so it is very prone to being worn down by the hazards it is designated to remove and the hits it is designated to tank. Altogether, Forretress's support can open many doors for your team, but without a solid plan for dealing with setup sweepers or spinblockers, your team itself might be opened up itself.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Rapid Spin
    move 1: Rapid Spin
    move 2: Spikes / Stealth Rock
    move 3: Volt Switch
    move 4: Gyro Ball / Hidden Power Ice
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Sturdy
    nature: Relaxed
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    ivs: 0 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Forretress's placement on a team should be for one reason alone: Rapid Spin. Without Rapid Spin, other Steel-types such as Ferrothorn and Skarmory are superior choices. Forretress's secondary function outside of Rapid Spinning is to tank hits, especially physical ones, for its teammates. With maximum Defense investment, Forretress becomes a handy tool to take the powerful Outrages thrown out by Dragons and easily spins against opposing Pokemon that rely on weaker physical moves.</p>

    <p>Rapid Spin with an accompanying hazard of choice will allow Forretress to support its teammates whether it beis in the endeavor of sweeping or stalling. Spikes is the more exclusive of the two entry hazards listed and is more effective in wearing down the spinblockers Forretress has to combat. However, if your team is lacking a Stealth Rock user, Stealth Rock can be used instead of Spikes. Volt Switch is perhaps the best attacking move in Forretress's arsenal; not only can it be used to escape Magnezone, but it can also be used to act as a pivot for your team. Forretress is the slowest user of Volt Switch in the game, so it can effectively tank a hit for a teammate and switch out with Volt Switch to make sure your frailer, but more offensively inclined, Pokemon can come in safely. In the last slot, Forretress can run one move to prevent becoming setup bait for certain Pokemon. Forretress's low Speed and Steel typing makes Gyro Ball its most powerful move. MeanwhileOn the other hand, Hidden Power Ice is more effective in taking on Gliscor and Dragon-types 4x weak to Ice. However, it is a very weak move and generally misses out on Terrakion and Tyranitar in terms of coverage.</p>


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Relaxed nature and 0 Speed IVs give the most powerful Gyro Ball possible and the slowest Volt Switch possible, which enables Forretress to get a safe switch -in for another Pokemon when facing a variety of targets. If you are using Hidden Power Ice, you should use 44 Special Attack EVs with a Bold nature to 2HKO 200 HP Landorus-T after Leftovers. Another alternative EV spread has 144 Attack EVs, which can be used to OHKO Terrakion after 2two switches into Stealth Rock switch ins and to OHKO minimum HP Magnezone and Heatran with Earthquake. However, using 144 Attack EVs compromises a lotso much on bulk, so much so that it's not worth using. As for other alternative moves, Toxic Spikes can be used over an attacking move or a hazard. By having two hazards on Forretress, one can choose the hazard in a battle that most appropriately fits the situation (i.e. Spikes or Toxic Spikes.) It should be noted, however, that Toxic Spikes has very limited use in OU, more so than in other tiers. For example, Sun teams often carry Venusaur while rain teams carry Tentacruel or Toxicroack. 27 Pokemon in OU are not affected by Toxic Spikes (29 if counting the benefits gained by Conkeldurr and Breloom with their appropriate abilities), so, in many battles, they will find little use at all. Additionally, running an extra hazard over a move will compromise for Forretress's ability to spin well and preventcan make itself from more likely to becominge setup bait. Earthquake can be used over an attacking move to prevent Jirachi or Lucario from setting up on you. Earthquake also does heavy damage to Heatran and Forretress, who would otherwise switch- in freely. Pain Split lets Forretress have a semi-reliable means of recovery and mitigates the need for a Wish passer. In addition, Pain Split allows Forretress to beat Ferrothorn 1 vs 1one-on-one, whereas befotherwise Ferrothorn could win and prevent Rapid Spin with a combination of Leech Seed and Iron Barbs. In the item slot, Custap Berry can be used instead of Leftovers so Forretress can hang on with Sturdy and effectively pull outff a priority Rapid Spin or a hazard of choice.</p>

    <p>When selecting teammates for Forretress, its tendency to become setup bait, susceptibility to spinblockers, and its lack of reliable recovery should be kept in mind. Pokemon with the ability Intimidate, such as Gyarados, Salamence, and Landorus-T, are good partners because they mitigate the initial boosts of Pokemon attempting to raiseboost their attack onagainst Forretress. Choice Scarf users and priority users are also good teammates, because if a Pokemon sets up on Forretress andwhile Forretress Volt Switches out, they can proceed to KO even boosted threats. Phazers also do well to prevent boosted threats from making an impact on your team if they set up on Forretress. Pokemon with powerful Pursuits make great teammates since they can remove the spinblockers that Forretress has a lot of trouble with. Tyranitar is the best because it can cover Forretress's nasty Fire-type weakness and provide Sandstorm for additional residual damage. Wish passers are great assets to Forretress because they prevent it from being worn down by the physical attackers it is supposed to tank and the hazards it is supposed to remove. Vaporeon and Chansey get the nod over other Wish passers due to their large HP stats and their ability to take special moves that might otherwise overwhelm Forretress.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Forretress can run a specially defensive spread in order to better sponge special attacks, particularly those from Dragon-types and Gengar, more easily. However, when considering that Forretress takes over half50% from Latios's Specs Draco Meteor (non-choice special dragons often carry a move to cripple Forretress ) and that bulky Water-types can now burn Forretress with Scald, the niche that Specially Defensive Forretress had is now lost. Forretress can also run a multitude of different items effectively. Forretress can be used as a lead with Mental Herb, where h to make ist impossible to Taunt and tor OHKO. M; meanwhile, it can set up both Spikes and Stealth Rock while stopping opposing suicide leads at the same time with Rapid Spin. Red Card can be used with Sturdy to prevent Forretress from becoming setup bait, and it gives you the freedom to set up as many hazards as you want while the opponent uselessly sets up. Lastly, Shed Shell can be used to prevent either Magnezone or Gothitelle from trapping you. Note that with Volt Switch and proper prediction, Forretress can prevent trapping from occurring.</p>

    <p>Forretress can play around with either its hazards or attacking options and run a couple of other moves. Explosion can be used as a last ditch effort to prevent a Pokemon from setting up and to get a teammate in unscathed. However, the power nerf to Explosion this generation makes it an unappealing option. Toxic can be used to spread status and to cripple Sableye and Jellicent who might try to spinblock Forretress.</p>


    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Jellicent, Sableye, and Gengar deserve a special place among Forretress counters because they block Rapid Spin, which is Forretress's primary purpose. It should be noted that Gengar will take hefty damage from Forretress's Gyro Ball if you predict the Gengar switch-in correctly. Heatran can come in on most of Forretress's moves and wipe it off the face of the earth with its Fire-type STAB. Other Fire-types such as Volcarona and Infernape can do the same. Gothitelle and Magnezone can trap Forretress and prey on its 4x Fire weakness to OHKO with HP Fire. Gothitelle can also tTrick Forretress to lock it into a move where he is extremely easy to set up on. However, Forretress with Volt Switch have a chance to escape if the trappers do not immediately use HP Fire. Ferrothorn can come in on Forretress and proceed to set up hazards of its own, baiting Forretress to spin them. In the long run, Ferrothorn will beat Forretress 1 vs 1one-on-one with a combination of Iron Barbs and Leech Seed should the Forretress not carry Pain Split. Donphan takes little from Hidden Power Ice or Gyro Ball and can spin away all of its hazards while slowly chipping at its health with Earthquake. Gliscor can set up a Swords Dance or Substitute on Forretress and eventually force it out with repeated Earthquakes if Forretress does not have Hidden Power Ice. It can also prevent hazard set up with the use of Taunt. Thundurus-T, Garchomp, Landorus, Jirachi, and Terrakion can all set up on Forretress quite easily if it lacks the proper moves to do significant damage to them. Lastly, with proper prediction, Xatu and Espeon can reflect the hazards Forretress sets up with proper prediction and hit back with a fatal Heat Wave or Hidden Power Fire.</p>

    c/p (open)
    [Overview]

    <p>When one thinks of Forretress, one word springs to mind: utility. Forretress's role in OU is defined by its use of the semi-exclusive Rapid Spin to clear entry hazards from the field. With Rapid Spin, it extends the longevity of a wide range of Pokemon such as Dragonite and Thundurus-T. The use of Rapid Spin also acts as a line of defense against teams that heavily rely on residual damage from entry hazards. In addition, Forretress occupies a unique niche among Rapid Spin users in that it has access to all three entry hazards. This makes Forretress flexible; it can allow your Pokemon to sweep or to stall. Perhaps what sets Forretress furthest apart from other spinners is its Steel typing and high Defense, making it one of the best Pokemon to tank the powerful Outrages and other physical moves thrown around in the OU tier.</p>

    <p>Forretress is not without its severe disappointments. While it is the spinner that can fill the most roles on a team, it is also the easiest to spinblock. Forretress's lack of powerful offensive moves outside of Gyro Ball means OU's premier spinblockers&mdash;Jellicent and Sableye&mdash;will have no problem coming in and tanking (if you can even call it that) a hit to block Rapid Spin. While Forretress can do little back, Jellicent and Sableye will be more than happy to cripple it with Will-O-Wisp, while Gengar can wreck it with a powerful special move. The same lack of offensive presence means Forretress is setup bait for the numerous sweepers in OU. Thus, a solid plan for dealing with setup sweepers is necessary when running Forretress. Lastly, Forretress lacks any means of reliable recovery outside of Leftovers, so it is very prone to being worn down by the hazards it is designated to remove and the hits it is designated to tank. Altogether, Forretress's support can open many doors for your team, but without a solid plan for dealing with setup sweepers or spinblockers, your team itself might be opened.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Rapid Spin
    move 1: Rapid Spin
    move 2: Spikes / Stealth Rock
    move 3: Volt Switch
    move 4: Gyro Ball / Hidden Power Ice
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Sturdy
    nature: Relaxed
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    ivs: 0 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Forretress's placement on a team should be for one reason alone: Rapid Spin. Without Rapid Spin, other Steel-types such as Ferrothorn and Skarmory are superior choices. Forretress's secondary function outside of Rapid Spinning is to tank hits, especially physical ones, for its teammates. With maximum Defense investment, Forretress becomes a handy tool to take the powerful Outrages thrown by Dragons and easily spins against opposing Pokemon that rely on weaker physical moves.</p>

    <p>Rapid Spin with an accompanying hazard of choice will allow Forretress to support its teammates whether it is in the endeavor of sweeping or stalling. Spikes is the more exclusive of the two entry hazards listed and is more effective in wearing down the spinblockers Forretress has to combat. However, if your team is lacking a Stealth Rock user, Stealth Rock can be used instead of Spikes. Volt Switch is perhaps the best attacking move in Forretress's arsenal; not only can it be used to escape Magnezone, but it can also be used to act as a pivot for your team. Forretress is the slowest user of Volt Switch in the game, so it can effectively tank a hit for a teammate and switch out with Volt Switch to make sure your frailer, but more offensively inclined, Pokemon can come in safely. In the last slot, Forretress can run one move to prevent becoming setup bait for certain Pokemon. Forretress's low Speed and Steel typing makes Gyro Ball its most powerful move. On the other hand, Hidden Power Ice is more effective in taking on Gliscor and Dragon-types 4x weak to Ice. However, it is a very weak move and generally misses out on Terrakion and Tyranitar in terms of coverage.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Relaxed nature and 0 Speed IVs give the most powerful Gyro Ball possible and the slowest Volt Switch possible, which enables Forretress to get a safe switch-in for another Pokemon when facing a variety of targets. If you are using Hidden Power Ice, you should use 44 Special Attack EVs with a Bold nature to 2HKO 200 HP Landorus-T after Leftovers. Another alternative EV spread has 144 Attack EVs, which can be used to OHKO Terrakion after two switches into Stealth Rock and to OHKO minimum HP Magnezone and Heatran with Earthquake. However, using 144 Attack EVs compromises so much on bulk that it's not worth using. As for other alternative moves, Toxic Spikes can be used over an attacking move or a hazard. By having two hazards on Forretress, one can choose the hazard in a battle that most appropriately fits the situation (i.e. Spikes or Toxic Spikes.) It should be noted, however, that Toxic Spikes has very limited use in OU, more so than in other tiers. For example, Sun teams often carry Venusaur while rain teams carry Tentacruel or Toxicroack. 27 Pokemon in OU are not affected by Toxic Spikes (29 if counting the benefits gained by Conkeldurr and Breloom with their appropriate abilities), so in many battles, they will find little use at all. Additionally, running an extra hazard over a move will compromise Forretress's ability to spin well and can make it more likely to become setup bait. Earthquake can be used over an attacking move to prevent Jirachi or Lucario from setting up on you. Earthquake also does heavy damage to Heatran and Forretress, who would otherwise switch in freely. Pain Split lets Forretress have a semi-reliable means of recovery and mitigates the need for a Wish passer. In addition, Pain Split allows Forretress to beat Ferrothorn one-on-one, whereas otherwise Ferrothorn could win and prevent Rapid Spin with a combination of Leech Seed and Iron Barbs. In the item slot, Custap Berry can be used instead of Leftovers so Forretress can hang on with Sturdy and effectively pull off a priority Rapid Spin or a hazard of choice.</p>

    <p>When selecting teammates for Forretress, its tendency to become setup bait, susceptibility to spinblockers, and lack of reliable recovery should be kept in mind. Pokemon with the ability Intimidate, such as Gyarados, Salamence, and Landorus-T, are good partners because they mitigate the initial boosts of Pokemon attempting to boost their attack against Forretress. Choice Scarf users and priority users are also good teammates, because if a Pokemon sets up on Forretress while Forretress Volt Switches out, they can proceed to KO even boosted threats. Phazers also do well to prevent boosted threats from making an impact on your team if they set up on Forretress. Pokemon with powerful Pursuits make great teammates since they can remove the spinblockers that Forretress has a lot of trouble with. Tyranitar is the best because it can cover Forretress's nasty Fire-type weakness and provide Sandstorm for additional residual damage. Wish passers are great assets to Forretress because they prevent it from being worn down by the physical attackers it is supposed to tank and the hazards it is supposed to remove. Vaporeon and Chansey get the nod over other Wish passers due to their large HP stats and their ability to take special moves that might otherwise overwhelm Forretress.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Forretress can run a specially defensive spread in order to better sponge special attacks, particularly those from Dragon-types and Gengar. However, when considering that Forretress takes over 50% from Latios's Specs Draco Meteor (non-choice special dragons often carry a move to cripple Forretress ) and that bulky Water-types can now burn Forretress with Scald, the niche that Specially Defensive Forretress had is now lost. Forretress can also run a multitude of different items effectively. Forretress can be used as a lead with Mental Herb to make it impossible to Taunt or OHKO; meanwhile, it can set up both Spikes and Stealth Rock while stopping opposing suicide leads with Rapid Spin. Red Card can be used with Sturdy to prevent Forretress from becoming setup bait, and it gives you the freedom to set up as many hazards as you want while the opponent uselessly sets up. Lastly, Shed Shell can be used to prevent either Magnezone or Gothitelle from trapping you. Note that with Volt Switch and proper prediction, Forretress can prevent trapping from occurring.</p>

    <p>Forretress can play around with either its hazards or attacking options and run a couple of other moves. Explosion can be used as a last ditch effort to prevent a Pokemon from setting up and to get a teammate in unscathed. However, the power nerf to Explosion this generation makes it an unappealing option. Toxic can be used to spread status and to cripple Sableye and Jellicent who might try to spinblock Forretress.</p>


    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Jellicent, Sableye, and Gengar deserve a special place among Forretress counters because they block Rapid Spin, which is Forretress's primary purpose. It should be noted that Gengar will take hefty damage from Forretress's Gyro Ball if you predict the Gengar switch-in correctly. Heatran can come in on most of Forretress's moves and wipe it off the face of the earth with its Fire-type STAB. Other Fire-types such as Volcarona and Infernape can do the same. Gothitelle and Magnezone can trap Forretress and prey on its 4x Fire weakness to OHKO with HP Fire. Gothitelle can also Trick Forretress to lock it into a move where he is extremely easy to set up on. However, Forretress with Volt Switch have a chance to escape if the trappers do not immediately use HP Fire. Ferrothorn can come in on Forretress and proceed to set up hazards of its own, baiting Forretress to spin them. In the long run, Ferrothorn will beat Forretress one-on-one with a combination of Iron Barbs and Leech Seed should the Forretress not carry Pain Split. Donphan takes little from Hidden Power Ice or Gyro Ball and can spin away all of its hazards while slowly chipping at its health with Earthquake. Gliscor can set up a Swords Dance or Substitute on Forretress and eventually force it out with repeated Earthquakes if Forretress does not have Hidden Power Ice. It can also prevent hazard setup with the use of Taunt. Thundurus-T, Garchomp, Landorus, Jirachi, and Terrakion can all set up on Forretress quite easily if it lacks the proper moves to do significant damage to them. Lastly, with proper prediction, Xatu and Espeon can reflect the hazards Forretress sets up and hit back with a fatal Heat Wave or Hidden Power Fire.</p>

    [​IMG]
    GP Approved 3/3
  14. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
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    this is now DONE. finished product in op
  15. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming The truth is in my hands
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    Nice work

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