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Forretress (Custap Lead)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Furai, Apr 22, 2013.

  1. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    Code:
    [B][U]QC checks:[/U][/B] trickroom, shrang, syrim [B][3/3][/B]
    [B][U]GP checks:[/U][/B] Governess, NatGeo, melvni [B][2/2][/B]
    [SET]
    name: Custap Lead
    move 1: Rapid Spin
    move 2: Stealth Rock
    move 3: Spikes / Toxic Spikes
    move 4: Gyro Ball / Explosion
    item: Custap Berry
    ability: Sturdy
    nature: Brave
    evs: 252 Atk
    ivs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD / 0 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Say hello to one of Ubers's finest anti-leads and entry hazard users. The release of Custap Berry is a blessing to any Pokemon with Sturdy thanks to its BW mechanics. Even Deoxys-S, a common suicide lead that seems to outclass Forretress is beaten by this set, getting smacked by Gyro Ball and losing the entry hazards it has worked for thanks to Rapid Spin. Sturdy allows Forretress to tank even a Fire Punch or Hidden Power Fire from Deoxys-S, allowing it to go for the Gyro Ball or lay down some entry hazards if it isn't hit by Taunt. Do note that with the combination of Taunt and a Fire-type move, Deoxys-S will manage to limit this set's usefulness. The combination of Custap Berry and Sturdy is deadly on Forretress because it helps it act like an anti-lead and an entry hazard setter at the same time. This combination allows Forretress to almost always get a minimum of two entry hazards up; once when it's attacked and brought down to Custap Berry activation range, and once when Custap Berry gets activated.</p>

    <p>The set itself is pretty straightforward. Entry hazards are a blessing for offensive teams, and these are the teams this Forretress fits best on. While slower teams do often enjoy entry hazards, the fast pace of this set makes it a great addition to hyper offensive teams that wish to keep great pressure on their opponent. Rapid Spin is the key to Forretress's anti-hazard role, spinning away the entry hazards the foe worked to get on the field. Gyro Ball hits fairly hard with a Brave nature, 0 Speed IVs, and 252 Attack EVs and is a good emergency tool to take out the likes of weakened Rayquaza, Salamence, Groudon, and more if Custap Berry is in its activation range. You don't need to use Custap Berry immediately; feel free to keep it for emergency uses. Explosion lets Forretress go out with a bang and is capable of OHKOing Ho-Oh after Stealth Rock damage, along with leaving a huge dent in opponents such as Kyogre, Rayquaza, and Palkia. Explosion can also be used to block a Rapid Spin; in fact, it has a 93.75% chance to OHKO 252/32 Tentacruel after Stealth Rock. Toxic Spikes can be used over Spikes to pressure bulky offensive teams, as those teams do not appreciate the additional damage. However, many teams will find Spikes to be more useful than Toxic Spikes overall.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread and nature guarantee that Forretress's Gyro Ball will hit as hard as possible. 0 IVs in HP, Defense, and Special Defense, allows Forretress to get into Custap Berry activation range very quickly: +1 LO Earthquake from Rayquaza and Earth Plate Groudon cannot achieve a KO and activate Forretress's Custap Berry the following turn. Yet, there are many other options for IV and EV spreads. 0 HP IVs paired with 31 Special Defense IVs ensures that Forretress can take two Modest Ice Beams from Kyogre, Lustrous Orb Palkia will only have 6.25% chance to OHKO with STAB Spacial Rend after Stealth Rock, and two Dark Pulses from Leftovers Darkrai will bring Forretress to Custap Berry activation range without Stealth Rock. 13 HP IVs with 31 Defense IVs ensures that Forretress is only 3HKOed by 4 Attack Groudon's Earthquake. A bulky spread is a viable option if your team needs something to take either physical or special attacks; go for Special Defense investment if you need to tank special hits like Draco Meteor and Ice Beam, and vice versa.</p>

    <p>This set doesn't have many other options bar Volt Switch, which is a brilliant move option if you wish to scout and catch the opponent's spinblocker or Xatu by surprise. Toxic Spikes should only be used over Spikes; if you use it over Stealth Rock, you get a suicide Pokemon that takes five turns to set up, which is, while somewhat viable, far too many, and if you use it over Gyro Ball or Explosion, Forretress becomes a huge setup fodder and lose versus opposing Deoxys-S.</p>

    <p>Any Pokemon that can force switches can take great advantage from this set's qualities. Double Dance Groudon is a great partner; with Stealth Rock and Spikes up, it can sweep easily. Toxic Spikes also puts huge pressure on Arceus formes, making it easier for Groudon to sweep. Rayquaza, thanks to its brute force and insane coverage, can also force switches while smacking the incoming switch with a brutal Dragon-type STAB move. Ghost Arceus and Giratina-O are advised, as they are capable of spinblocking, so Forretress's work won't go to waste. They can also beat Giratina and Xatu, which trouble Forretress in doing its job. Choice Scarf Kyogre can drown Ghost Arceus when health and can force many switches, which will become troublesome for the opponent with Forretress's entry hazards. Deoxys-S running Taunt and a Fire-type move and Darkrai are troublesome for this set. Giratina-O can handle Deoxys-S very easily, limiting it to a single entry hazard with its priority STAB Shadow Sneak, and while Darkrai is harder to deal with on offensive teams, a revenge killer, such as Genesect, Kyogre, or Arceus, should do the trick. Genesect is especially good, as it can force switches and scout the opponent's moves, rack up entry hazard damage, and help escape from the leads Forretress cannot beat.</p>
  2. trickroom

    trickroom
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    [​IMG]
    QC APPROVED 1/3


    AC mention IVs can be changed, does not always need to be 0. I found Special Defense IVs to be useful for taking Ice Beams from Specs Kyogre and Darkrai's Dark Pulse which doesn't bring you to Custap range in one hit.

    Explosion to blow up yourself so things like Tentacruel can't spin on you, and you can almost OHKO Ho-Oh and Kyogre.
  3. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    Slash Explosion with Gyro Ball IMO. I've personally found it more useful.

    [qc]2/3[/qc]
  4. Theorymon

    Theorymon ☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon IRC SOPis a Contributor to Smogonis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
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    You should mention a max HP version somewhere. While there is a chance that it won't get into Custap range, the extra bulk has general utility!
  5. Magcargo

    Magcargo
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    I once again don't see the point of running this over deoxys-s apart from T-spikes.
    I need an explanation again.
  6. Hack

    Hack formerly Hack He Must
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    By using Gyro Ball, Forretress easily beats Deoxys-S leads, which is a lead you want to avoid when using your own Deoxys-S. T spikes are actually very useful, in my experience getting one layer against a balanced team can often mean a huge advantage when trying to win weather wars etc.
  7. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    thanks guys will write asap


    fuck you kokoloko
  8. tehy

    tehy

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    Also, to add on:Rapid Spin is a great tool against suicide hazard leads. It basically limits them to one layer max while possibly getting your own layers. The only way for them to get more is if you overpredict.

    And when someone sees a Forretress, they don't KNOW what set it is, even if it's on a rather offensive team. Deoxys-S is going to be a suicide lead 99.9% of the time.
  9. Hack

    Hack formerly Hack He Must
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    By the way guys... Explosion doesn't OHKO Ho-oh and Kyogre.

    252+ Atk Forretress Explosion vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Ho-Oh: 253-298 (71.67 - 84.41%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252+ Atk Forretress Explosion vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kyogre: 254-299 (74.26 - 87.42%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    I guess with some prior damage this is ok, if you like switch out and save custap for later, but in a lead scenario where this Forretress is used it won't happen.
  10. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    trickroom probably meant after SR regarding ho-oh, idk what's up w/ ogre
  11. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    final QC please
  12. syrim

    syrim 1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1

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    Similar to the other cutsap sets I think leftovers is a better item even on offensive teams, but I guess this is viable.

    Darkrai is the biggest pain in the world for this set, and deo-s with taunt+ a fire move not only destroy you 1v1 but will also force you to lose your lead and have no hazards, or let one and probably two layers up. Both of these are really common on offensive teams.

    Against stall I'd rather have the normal set, but this set can do pretty well against balance with something like a groudon or dialga standard lead.

    Mention that the time to use it is when you're using an offensive team with something that hates sr, not really ho-oh because you cant spin reliably but maybe something like a rayquaza or scarf kyogre.

    Counters for darkrai are hard to come by on the type of team that this fits on, but mention that you need a really good way to beat it plus a way to beat standard deo-s leads.

    Pros of this set are that it can actually reliably come out on top by 1 hazard against a Deo-a spike lead.

    The biggest drawback to this set in my opinion besides what I mentioned earlier is that against sash deo leads, either form, you are either going to lose or have to choose hazard advantage, or leaving their lead alive.

    Genesect is a good partner for this set, as you are going to need to u-turn a lot on the leads you don't beat.

    qc approved
  13. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    got it all i believe please GP
  14. Governess

    Governess A Beautiful Blossom Waiting to Bloom
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    Hihi, amateur check.
    It's great writing, Gj. Only thing is that it's entry hazard(s), not just hazard(s) alone.

    Additions
    Removes

    Amateur Check (open)
  15. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    am check implemented
  16. NatGeo

    NatGeo sun's coming up
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    Approving of above check

    [​IMG]

    GP 1/2
  17. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    thx natgeo pls more
  18. melvni

    melvni
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    GP check. Good job on writing this.
    Additions in Blue
    Subtractions in Red
    Comments in Purple

    Show Hide
    [SET]
    name: Custap Lead
    move 1: Rapid Spin
    move 2: Stealth Rock
    move 3: Spikes / Toxic Spikes
    move 4: Gyro Ball / Explosion
    item: Custap Berry
    ability: Sturdy
    nature: Brave
    evs: 252 Atk
    ivs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD / 0 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Say hello to one of Ubers's finest anti-lead anti-leads and entry hazard user users. The release of Custap Berry is a blessing to any Sturdy Pokemon with Sturdy thanks to its BW mechanics. A Even Deoxys-S, a common suicide lead that seems to outclass Forretress is actually beaten by it this set; (change to comma) Deoxys-S gets getting smacked by Gyro Ball and loses losing the entry hazards it has worked for thanks to Rapid Spin. Sturdy allows Forretress to tank even a Fire Punch or Hidden Power Fire from Deoxys-S, allowing it to go for the Gyro Ball or lay down some entry hazards if it isn't hit by Taunt. Do note that with the combination of Taunt and a Fire-type move, Deoxys-S will manage to limit this set's usefulness. The combination of Custap Berry and Sturdy is deadly on Forretress because it helps it act like an anti-lead and an entry hazard setter at the same time. This combination allows Forretress to almost always get a minimum of two entry hazards up; once when it's attacked and brought down to Custap Berry activation range, and once when Custap Berry gets activated.</p>

    <p>The set itself is pretty straightforward. Entry hazards are a blessing for offensive teams, and these are the teams this Forretress fits best in on. While slower teams do often enjoy entry hazards, the fast pace of this set makes it a great addition to hyper offensive teams that wish to keep great pressure on their opponent. Rapid Spin is the key to Forretress's anti-hazard role, spinning away the entry hazards the foe worked to get on the field. Gyro Ball hits fairly hard with a Brave nature, 0 Speed IVs, and 252 Attack EVs, (remove comma) and is a good emergency tool to take out the likes of weakened Rayquaza, Salamence, Groudon, and more, (remove comma) if Custap Berry is in its actication activation range. You don't need to use Custap Berry at once immediately; feel free to keep it for emergency uses. Explosion lets Forretress go out with a bang, (remove comma) and is capable of OHKOing Ho-Oh after Stealth Rock damage, along with leaving a huge dent in opponents such as Kyogre, Rayquaza, and Palkia. Explosion can also be used to block a Rapid Spin; in fact, it has a 93.75% chance to OHKO 252/32 Tentacruel after Stealth Rock. Toxic Spikes can be used over Spikes to pressure bulky offensive teams, as those teams hate Toxic Spikes&mdash; do not appreciate the additional damage is not appreciated. However, many teams will find Spikes to be more useful than Toxic Spikes overall.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread and nature guarantee that Forretress's Gyro Ball will hit as hard as possible. 0 IVs in HP, Defense, and Special Defense, allows Forretress to get into Custap Berry activation range very quickly: +1 LO Earthquake from Rayquaza and Earth Plate Groudon cannot achieve a KO with Earthquake, while activating and activate Forretress's Custap Berry the following turn. Yet, there are many other options for IV and EV spreads. 0 HP IVs paired with 31 Special Defense IVs ensures that Forretress can take two Modest Ice Beams from Kyogre, Lustrous Orb Palkia will only have 6.25% chance to OHKO with STAB Spacial Rend after Stealth Rock, and two Dark Pulses from Leftovers Darkrai will bring Forretress to Custap Berry activation range without Stealth Rock. 13 HP IVs with 31 Defense IVs ensures that Forretress is only 3HKOed by 4 Attack Groudon's Earthquake. A bulky spread is a viable option if your team needs something to take either physical or special attacks, (change to semicolon) yet it depends on what you wish to tank better. Go go for a Special Defense investment if you need to tank special hits like Draco Meteor and Ice Beam, and vice versa.</p>

    <p>This set doesn't have many other options bar Volt Switch, which is a brilliant move option if you wish to scout and catch the opponent's spinblocker or Xatu by surprise. Toxic Spikes should only be used over Spikes; if you use it over Stealth Rock, you get a suicide Pokemon that takes 5 five turns to set up, which is, while somewhat viable, far too much many, and if you use it over Gyro Ball or Explosion, you became Forretress becomes a huge setup fodder and lose versus opposing Deoxys-S.</p>

    <p>Any Pokemon that can force switches can take great advantage from this set's qualities. Double Dance Groudon is a great partner; with Stealth Rock and Spikes up, it can sweep easily. Toxic Spikes also puts huge pressure on Arceus formes, makiing making it easier for Groudon to sweep. Rayquaza, thanks to its brute force and insane coverage, can also force switches while smacking the incoming switch with a brutal Dragon-type STAB move. Ghost Arceus and Giratina-O are advised, as they are capable of spinblocking, so Forretress's work won't go to waste. They can also beat Giratina and Xatu, which trouble Forretress in doing its job. Choice Scarf Kyogre can drown Ghost Arceus Ghost when healthy, (remove comma) and can force many switches, which will become troublesome for the opponent with Forretress's entry azards hazards. Deoxys-S running Taunt and a Fire-type move and Darkrai are troublesome for this set. Giratina-O can handle Deoxys-S very easily, limiting it to a single entry hazard with its priority STAB Shadow Sneak, and while Darkrai is harder to deal with on offensive teams, a revenge killer, such as Genesect, Kyogre, or Arceus, should do the trick. Genesect is especially good, as it can force switches and scout the opponent's moves, rack up entry hazard damage, and escaping escape / help escape / what you meant here if I'm misinterpreting this from the leads Forretress cannot beat.</p>


    [gp]2/2[/gp]
  19. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    i didnt remove the "while somewhat viable" as i believe it should stay there.

    upload!~
  20. tehy

    tehy

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    Ah, just a few quick things:

    "Forretress becomes a huge setup fodder and lose versus opposing Deoxys-S"
    Shouldn't it be loses? Originally it was you lose, but now it's Forretress, so that no longer applies.

    "Choice Scarf Kyogre can drown Ghost Arceus when health"
    Healthy?

    Also, I feel like "Ghostceus and Gira-O are advised" sentence and the one after it are a little confusing and clunky, it's not advising them as partners just...advising them? Little weird. And maybe make both 1 sentence?

    The end of the bulky spread AC sentence is kind of eh "Do special if you want special attacks and vice versa". You could just say "Dracos and Ice Beams/Outrages and Eq's", or just cut that part out entirely.
  21. Nexus

    Nexus Day 358: Believe
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    Upoloaded. gj furry

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