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Forretress (full revamp) (Stage 2) GP Check: 2/2

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by kd24, Mar 25, 2013.

  1. kd24

    kd24 yo daddy musta been a drug dealer? why, cuz you're dope
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    The consensus is max SpD Forretress is the way to go: let's make it happen

    [Overview]

    <p>Forretress has an easy time setting up Spikes, making it a good choice on standard teams; it can also Rapid Spin, which is always a plus. However, Forretress has one really, really big problem: its offense blows. It has to resort to type advantages from Hidden Power Bug and Earthquake, status from Zap Cannon or Toxic, or Explosion to pose any sort of a threat. While its excellent resistances make it a great wall, Forretress is easily rendered useless by threats with a setup move.</p>

    <p>In addition, Forretress faces competition as a wall from Skarmory, which has the advantage of phazing capability and Flying-type STAB; the former lets it take advantage of the entry hazards it sets up while the latter enables it to keep Gyarados and Heracross at bay. Forretress, on the other hand, can barely touch them outside of Explosion, Hidden Power, or Zap Cannon. Furthermore, Skarmory is a better bet against most physical hitters, as it is immune to Ground, resists Flying, and 4x resists Bug, while Forretress takes neutral damage from Ground and Flying and only has a 2x resistance to Bug. Forretress has the slight advantage of having only one weakness as opposed to Skarmory's two, namely to Fire and Electric. However, Forretress will be OHKOed by any Fire move because its weakness is 4x, while Skarmory will usually survive one unexpected Thunderbolt or Flamethrower. All in all, if you want Spikes and Rapid Spin on your team or need a Pokemon that both walls Metagross and can actually hurt it, Forretress is your friend. As long as you know where it shines (walling and utility) and where it sucks (stopping setup), it will be a welcome addition to your team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Standard
    move 1: Spikes
    move 2: Rapid Spin
    move 3: Hidden Power Bug
    move 4: Explosion / Earthquake / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Careful
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Forretress doesn't have many weaknesses, so setting up Spikes should be a manageable task. Forretress can also Rapid Spin opposing Spikes away, but beware of Ghost-types. Hidden Power Bug provides STAB that hits Tyranitar, Starmie, Celebi, and random switch-ins such as Blissey. Earthquake can be used to repel Magneton and keep Metagross at bay. Explosion is for when Forretress's job is done, namely when the opponent's Spikes or Rapid Spin user is removed, you have enough Spikes yourself, and you no longer need Forretress's walling capabilities. Alternatively, Toxic can weaken some of Forretress's switch-ins and really hurt Cloyster if your opponent is relying on it for Rapid Spin.</p>

    <p>Maximize HP and Special Defense; it allows Forretress to set up Spikes in the face of special attackers like Milotic and Regice much more easily. The Special Defense is also a major ally when facing Starmie, which normally threatens Forretress with Surf. A more physically defensive spread can be used to set up on physical attackers, but because many of them set up so easily, Forretress can easily find itself having switching out every time they come in to prevent a sweep. Specially defensive Forretress can also manage versus Magneton and Jirachi much easier, especially if using Earthquake. That being said, don't rely solely on Forretress to keep Jirachi at bay&mdash;its high defenses and ability to Calm Mind will eventually take out Forretress, but in most cases it will want to avoid allowing Forretress to set up all three layers of Spikes.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Zap Cannon can paralyze the likes of Skarmory, Gengar, Gyarados, Salamence, and Cloyster, but Heracross sponges it easily and might even gain a Guts boost. Reflect and Light Screen can provide a useful boost to your team's defenses; the latter is especially handy as most people will switch in a special attacker. For instance, Light Screen enables Forretress to survive Magneton's Hidden Power Fire and OHKO it with Earthquake. Forretress survives even attacks from +6 Snorlax and OHKOes it with Counter. Hidden Power Flying lets Forretress take on Heracross and Breloom. Protect grants Forretress extra Leftovers recovery, but more importantly allows it to scout Snorlax and Salamence for Fire-type moves. Hidden Power Steel provides STAB and is the best option against Gengar bar Hidden Power Ghost, which won't do anything to Tyranitar.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>The best counter in the game to Forretress is Gengar because it is immune to Rapid Spin and packs powerful special attacks in addition to a base 130 Special Attack. In general, all Ghost-types ruin Forretress just by virtue of blocking Rapid Spin. Opposing spinners also trouble Forretress. Claydol is immune to Earthquake, Zap Cannon, and Spikes, but it is weak to Hidden Power Bug and hates Toxic. Donphan isn't scared of anything but Toxic. Gyarados can Taunt and freely set up Dragon Dance boosts for a sweep if Forretress lacks Counter or Zap Cannon. Whereas Salamence cannot Taunt and therefore allows Forretress to lay Spikes, it often packs Fire Blast or Flamethrower. Even if it doesn't, Forretress can't do much of anything to Salamence. Forretress also can't get past Heracross without using Hidden Power Flying. Magneton can trap Forretress, but has to be wary about Earthquake.</p>

    ---

    all in all, not much changed. some things warranted rewording or a fresh slate because of SpD actually being good and not shitty. the changes were basic but the set is seemingly up to date now
  2. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Although specially defensive set is the superior set, do OO mention the physical spread set. It DOES come in handy, especially if you're using Counter or using Forretress to check the likes of Tyranitar or Metagross. Forretress can survive an EQ from a +6 Snorlax with a specially defensive set, but with a physically defensive set, it can even tank a +6 HP Flying from Salamence / Gyarados. Especially on defensive teams, where they most likely have plenty of answers to special threats by using Blissey and electric sponge, etc, Forretress's physical defense would be more appreciated than sponging special moves.

    - what do you mean by physical attackers, 'setting up easily'? Why would Forry switch out of a physical set-up mon? This statement isn't clear.

    Basically, emphasize the advantages in using a defensive spread, since it's not all bad.
  3. adv

    adv formerly Triangles

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    With Jirachi, you're still doing not much to it with EQ, and it can just sit there Reflecting and Wishing and setting up on you. Forre loses to nearly all Rachis 1 on 1 - Wish CM sets up, Reflect CM makes EQ useless, you can't switch in on anything apart from SubCM's Psychic without losing 1 on 1, offensive CM sets up once and then Fire Punches you. I'm not suggesting that you add Jirachi to Checks and Counters, because it can do nothing to stop Forretress setting up Spikes, but EQ Forry doesn't beat Rachis.
  4. sandshrewz

    sandshrewz
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    I have 0 ADV experience but just wondering, is Hidden Power Fire viable for an OO mention or something on Forretress or is that just a gimmick? I've seen it from some Smogon YouTube where it's used to idk hit opposing Forry lol >_> just wondering ~
  5. kd24

    kd24 yo daddy musta been a drug dealer? why, cuz you're dope
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    when i said manage i didn't mean beats 1 on 1, i did mean what you mentioned though, setting up spikes. you'll be able to put up spikes and damage jirachi enough that you can take it down with another pokemon (dugtrio) and that'll likely force out non hp fire jirachi who dont want to let you set up full layers.

    i can edit this to make it more clear that you'll shouldnt rely on forretress to actually beat jirachi 1 on 1
  6. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    It's mostly a gimmick, could probably go in OO imo for metagames that are Forr-heavy, but of course it's a far cry from main set consideration. Forr is a bit more common in ADV than it is in GSC, and I believe that the HP Fire gimmick is worth the OO mention it gets in the GSC analysis.
  7. kokoloko

    kokoloko supersmooth
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    UU Leader

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    uploaded and chache'd but still needs gp
  8. HUARGH

    HUARGH

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    2x easily sounds a bit weird, may I suggest substituting the second easily with something like 'quickly'? Plus the sentence is a bit strange as a whole, how about this:

    EDIT: I also feel hp ghost doesn't get enough emphasis. It really messes up Dusclops and Gengar, who are common switch-ins to block rapid spin.
  9. tehy

    tehy

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    A.D.V. In the HOUSE.

    Add blue remove red comments below. Pretty nice job.

    Edit: Yo KD feel free to ignore my fixes, but I do ask that you read my comments, there's some good points in there. I also put Explosion before EQ, since it's the primary slash, although that's really your choice.

    Show Hide



    [Overview]

    <p>Forretress has an easy time setting up Spikes, making it a good choice on standard teams; it can also Rapid Spin, which is always a plus. However, Forretress has one really, really big problem: its offense blows. It has to resort to type advantages from Hidden Power Bug and Earthquake, status from Zap Cannon or Toxic, or just plain Explosion to pose any sort of a threat. While its excellent resistances make it a great wall, Forretress is easily rendered useless by threats with a setup moveon.</p>

    <p>In addition, Forretress faces competition as a wall from Skarmory, who has the advantage of phazing capability and Flying STAB; the former lets it take advantage of the hazards it sets up, while the latter enables it to keep Gyarados and Heracross at bay. Forretress, on the other hand, can barely touch them outside of Explosion, Hidden Power, or Zap Cannon. Furthermore, Skarmory is a better bet against most physical hitters as it is immune to Ground, resists Flying and 4x resists Bug, while Forretress takes neutral damage from Ground and Flying and only has a 2x resistance to Bug. Forretress has the slight advantage of having only onebeing weakness,as opposed to to Fire, while Skarmory's two, namely is weak to Fire and Electric. However, Forretress will be OHKOed by any Fire move because it's 4x weakness to Fire is 4x, while Skarmory will usually survive one unexpected Thunderbolt or Flamethrower (or Thunderbolt!).</p>

    <p>All in all, if you want Spikes and Rapid Spin on your team, or need a Pokemon that both walls Metagross and can actually hurt it, Forretress is your friend. As long as you know where it shines (walling and utility) and where it sucks (stopping set-ups), it will be a welcome addition to your team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Standard
    move 1: Spikes
    move 2: Rapid Spin
    move 3: Hidden Power Bug
    move 4: Explosion / Earthquake / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Careful
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Forretress doesn't have many weaknesses, so setting up Spikes should be a manageable task. Forretress can also Rapid Spin opposing Spikes away, but beware of Ghosts. Hidden Power Bug provides STAB that hits Tyranitar, Starmie, and random switch-ins like Blissey. Earthquake can be used to repel Magneton and keep Metagross at bay, moderately hard. Explosion is for when Forretress's job is done, namely when the opponent's Spikes or Rapid Spin user is removed, you have enough Spikes yourself, and you no longer need Forretress's walling capabilities. AlternativelEarthquake can be used to repel Magneton and keep Metagross at bay, and Toxic can weakenr down some of Forretress's switch-ins and really hurt Cloyster if they're relying on it to Rapid Spin.</p>

    <p>Maximizeing HP and Special Defense: it allows Forretress to set up Spikes in the face of Sspecial Aattackers like Milotic and Regice much more easily. The Special Defense is also a major allyhelp when facing Starmie, who normally threatens Forretress with Surf. A more defensive spread can be used to set up on physical attackers, but because many of them set up so easily, Forretress can easily find itself having to switching out every time they come in to prevent a sweep. Specially Defensive Forretress also can manage versus Magneton and Jirachi much more easierly, especially if using Earthquake. That being said, don't rely solely on Forretress to keep Jirachi at bay - its high defenses and ability to Calm Mind will eventually take out Forretress, butalthough in most cases it will want to avoid allowing Forretress to set up all three layers of Spikes.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Zap Cannon can paralyze the likes of Skarmory, Gengar, Gyarados, Salamence, and Cloyster; however, Heracross sponges it easily and might even gain a Guts boost. Reflect and Light Screen can provide a useful boost to your team's defenses; the latter is especially handy as most people will switch in a special attacker. For instance, Light Screen enables Forretress to survive Magneton's Hidden Power Fire and OHKO it with Earthquake. Forretress can even survives even attacks from +6 Snorlax and can OHKO it with Counter. Hidden Power Flying lets Forretress take on Heracross, as well as Breloom. Protect lets it gets it extra Leftovers recovery, butand more importantly, allows it to scout Snorlax and Salamence for Fire moves. Hidden Power Steel provides STAB and is its best option against Gengar bar Hidden Power Ghost/Dark, which won't do anything to Tyranitar.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>The best counter in the game to Forretress is Gengar, because it is immune to Rapid Spin, Earthquake, Explosion, and Toxic, 4x resist Hidden Power Bug, and packs powerful special attacks in addition to a base 130 Special Attack. In general, all Ghost-types ruin Forretress just by virtue of blocking Rapid Spin. Opposing spinners also trouble Forretress. Claydol is immune to Earthquake, Zap Cannon, and Spikes, but it is weak to Hidden Power Bug and hates Toxic. Donphan isn't scared of anything but Toxic. Gyarados can Taunt and then freely set up Dragon Dance boosts for a sweep if Forretress lacks Counter or Zap Cannon. While Salamence cannot Taunt and therefore allows Forretress to lay Spikes, it often packs Fire Blast or Flamethrower. Even if it doesn't, Forretress can't do much of anything to Salamence. Forretress also can't get past Heracross without using Hidden Power Flying. Magneton can trap Forretress but has to be wary aboutof Earthquake.</p>


    Comments:
    Forry isn't exactly rendered useless,it can still spin and threaten some setup users and take attacks. It's rendered lolbait or w/e so i just put in set up on.
    I changed around the Weaknesses sentence. I have another change that's not as good but maintains integrity a bit more, hit me up if you don't like this and i'll show you it.
    It's true skarm can survive one unexpected Flamethrower, but I think the point is that, in contrast with Forry, it won't auto-die to an unexpected Fire move, not any SE move. It's kind of a contrast thing, and since forry isn't weak to Tbolt, surviving one is not a counterpoint against that. So i put it in parantheses.
    I included in that HP bug hits those things moderately hard on standard, i felt it needed that but feel free to ignore it if you disagree.
    I listed all of the other stuff Gengar lols at. Considering that's all of Forry's moves except Spikes, i felt like it was important to mention.
  10. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego This is what is technically known as a Firecat
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    REMOVE CHANGE COMMENTS

    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>Forretress has an easy time setting up Spikes, making it a good choice on standard teams; it can also Rapid Spin, which is always a plus. However, Forretress has one really, really big problem: its offense blows. It has to resort to type advantages from Hidden Power Bug and Earthquake, status from Zap Cannon or Toxic, or just plain Explosion to pose any sort of a threat. While its excellent resistances make it a great wall, Forretress is easily rendered useless by threats with a setup move.</p>

    <p>In addition, Forretress faces competition as a wall from Skarmory, which has the advantage of phazing capability and Flying STAB; the former lets it take advantage of the entry hazards it sets up, (RC) while the latter enables it to keep Gyarados and Heracross at bay. Forretress, on the other hand, can barely touch them outside of Explosion, Hidden Power, or Zap Cannon. Furthermore, Skarmory is a better bet against most physical hitters as it is immune to Ground, resists Flying, (AC) and 4x resists Bug, while Forretress takes neutral damage from Ground and Flying and only has a 2x resistance to Bug. Forretress has the slight advantage of having only one weakness, (RC) as opposed to Skarmory's two, namely to Fire and Electric. However, Forretress will be OHKOed by any Fire move because its weakness to Fire is 4x, while Skarmory will usually survive one unexpected Thunderbolt or Flamethrower.</p>

    <p>
    All in all, if you want Spikes and Rapid Spin on your team, or need a Pokemon that both walls Metagross and can actually hurt it, Forretress is your friend. As long as you know where it shines (walling and utility) and where it sucks (stopping setup), it will be a welcome addition to your team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Standard
    move 1: Spikes
    move 2: Rapid Spin
    move 3: Hidden Power Bug
    move 4: Explosion / Earthquake / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Careful
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Forretress doesn't have many weaknesses, (AC) so setting up Spikes should be a manageable task. Forretress can also Rapid Spin opposing Spikes away, but beware of Ghost-types. Hidden Power Bug provides STAB that hits Tyranitar, Starmie, and random switch-ins like such as Blissey. Earthquake can be used to repel Magneton and keep Metagross at bay. Explosion is for when Forretress's job is done, namely when the opponent's Spikes or Rapid Spin user is removed, you have enough Spikes yourself, and you no longer need Forretress's walling capabilities. Alternatively, Toxic can weaken down some of Forretress's switch-ins and really hurt Cloyster if they're you're opponent is relying on it to for Rapid Spin.</p>

    <p>Maximize HP and Special Defense, (comma) it allows Forretress to set up Spikes in the face of special attackers like Milotic and Regice much more easily. The Special Defense is also a major ally when facing Starmie, which normally threatens Forretress with Surf. A more defensive spread can be used to set up on physical attackers but because many of them set up so easily, (RC) Forretress can easily find itself having switching out every time they come in to prevent a sweep. Specially defensive Forretress can also manage versus Magneton and Jirachi much easier, especially if using Earthquake. That being said, don't rely solely on Forretress to keep Jirachi at bay&mdash;its high defenses and ability to Calm Mind will eventually take out Forretress, but in most cases it will want to avoid allowing Forretress to set up all three layers of Spikes.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Zap Cannon can paralyze the likes of Skarmory, Gengar, Gyarados, Salamence, and Cloyster, (comma) however, but Heracross sponges it easily and might even gain a Guts boost. Reflect and Light Screen can provide a useful boost to your team's defenses; the latter is especially handy as most people will switch in a special attacker. For instance, Light Screen enables Forretress to survive Magneton's Hidden Power Fire and OHKO it with Earthquake. Forretress survives even attacks from +6 Snorlax and can OHKO it with Counter. Hidden Power Flying lets Forretress take on Heracross, as well as Breloom. Protect gets it grants Forretress extra Leftovers recovery, but more importantly, (RC) allows it to scout Snorlax and Salamence for Fire moves. Hidden Power Steel provides STAB and is its the best option against Gengar bar Hidden Power Ghost, which won't do anything to Tyranitar.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>The best counter in the game to Forretress is Gengar, because it is immune to Rapid Spin and packs powerful special attacks in addition to a base 130 Special Attack. In general, all Ghost-types ruin Forretress just by virtue of blocking Rapid Spin. Opposing spinners also trouble Forretress. Claydol is immune to Earthquake, Zap Cannon, and Spikes, but it is weak to Hidden Power Bug and hates Toxic. Donphan isn't scared of anything but Toxic. Gyarados can Taunt and then freely set up Dragon Dance boosts for a sweep if Forretress lacks Counter or Zap Cannon. While Salamence cannot Taunt and therefore allows Forretress to lay Spikes, it often packs Fire Blast or Flamethrower. Even if it doesn't, Forretress can't do much of anything to Salamence. Forretress also can't get past Heracross without using Hidden Power Flying. Magneton can trap Forretress but has to be wary about Earthquake.</p>


    [gp]1/2[/gp]

    This has been SCMSed
  11. mikel

    mikel frizy will carry ocn
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    gato, if you change the colon to a comma in the second sc paragraph, you introduce a nasty comma splice. keep it a colon, or make it a semicolon or a period.

    a comma before "while" makes it mean "whereas", in which case the comma usage in the second overview para was correct. if you don't have the comma, it strictly is temporal and means "during the time that".

    just some things i noticed
  12. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego This is what is technically known as a Firecat
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    yeah what mikel said, those things just kind of sounded better in my head.
  13. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
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    Worked over the SCMS edition again.

    diff (open)

    [Overview]

    <p>Forretress has an easy time setting up Spikes, making it a good choice on standard teams; it can also Rapid Spin, which is always a plus. However, Forretress has one really, really big problem: its offense blows. It has to resort to type advantages from Hidden Power Bug and Earthquake, status from Zap Cannon or Toxic, or Explosion to pose any sort of a threat. While its excellent resistances make it a great wall, Forretress is easily rendered useless by threats with a setup move.</p>

    <p>In addition, Forretress faces competition as a wall from Skarmory, which has the advantage of phazing capability and Flying-type STAB; the former lets it take advantage of the entry hazards it sets up while the latter enables it to keep Gyarados and Heracross at bay. Forretress, on the other hand, can barely touch them outside of Explosion, Hidden Power, or Zap Cannon. Furthermore, Skarmory is a better bet against most physical hitters, as it is immune to Ground, resists Flying, and 4x resists Bug, while Forretress takes neutral damage from Ground and Flying and only has a 2x resistance to Bug. Forretress has the slight advantage of having only one weakness as opposed to Skarmory's two, namely to Fire and Electric. However, Forretress will be OHKOed by any Fire move because its weakness is 4x, while Skarmory will usually survive one unexpected Thunderbolt or Flamethrower. All in all, if you want Spikes and Rapid Spin on your team, or need a Pokemon that both walls Metagross and can actually hurt it, Forretress is your friend. As long as you know where it shines (walling and utility) and where it sucks (stopping setup), it will be a welcome addition to your team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Standard
    move 1: Spikes
    move 2: Rapid Spin
    move 3: Hidden Power Bug
    move 4: Explosion / Earthquake / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Careful
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Forretress doesn't have many weaknesses, so setting up Spikes should be a manageable task. Forretress can also Rapid Spin opposing Spikes away, but beware of Ghost-types. Hidden Power Bug provides STAB that hits Tyranitar, Starmie, Celebi, and random switch-ins such as Blissey. Earthquake can be used to repel Magneton and keep Metagross at bay. Explosion is for when Forretress's job is done, namely when the opponent's Spikes or Rapid Spin user is removed, you have enough Spikes yourself, and you no longer need Forretress's walling capabilities. Alternatively, Toxic can weaken down some of Forretress's switch-ins and really hurt Cloyster if your opponent is relying on it for Rapid Spin.</p>

    <p>Maximize HP and Special Defense; it allows Forretress to set up Spikes in the face of special attackers like Milotic and Regice much more easily. The Special Defense is also a major ally when facing Starmie, which normally threatens Forretress with Surf. A more physically defensive spread can be used to set up on physical attackers, but because many of them set up so easily, Forretress can easily find itself having switching out every time they come in to prevent a sweep. Specially defensive Forretress can also manage versus Magneton and Jirachi much easier, especially if using Earthquake. That being said, don't rely solely on Forretress to keep Jirachi at bay&mdash;its high defenses and ability to Calm Mind will eventually take out Forretress, but in most cases it will want to avoid allowing Forretress to set up all three layers of Spikes.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Zap Cannon can paralyze the likes of Skarmory, Gengar, Gyarados, Salamence, and Cloyster, but Heracross sponges it easily and might even gain a Guts boost. Reflect and Light Screen can provide a useful boost to your team's defenses; the latter is especially handy as most people will switch in a special attacker. For instance, Light Screen enables Forretress to survive Magneton's Hidden Power Fire and OHKO it with Earthquake. Forretress survives even attacks from +6 Snorlax and OHKOes it with Counter. Hidden Power Flying lets Forretress take on Heracross, as well as and Breloom. Protect grants Forretress extra Leftovers recovery, but more importantly allows it to scout Snorlax and Salamence for Fire-type moves. Hidden Power Steel provides STAB and is the best option against Gengar bar Hidden Power Ghost, which won't do anything to Tyranitar.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>The best counter in the game to Forretress is Gengar, because it is immune to Rapid Spin and packs powerful special attacks in addition to a base 130 Special Attack. In general, all Ghost-types ruin Forretress just by virtue of blocking Rapid Spin. Opposing spinners also trouble Forretress. Claydol is immune to Earthquake, Zap Cannon, and Spikes, but it is weak to Hidden Power Bug and hates Toxic. Donphan isn't scared of anything but Toxic. Gyarados can Taunt and freely set up Dragon Dance boosts for a sweep if Forretress lacks Counter or Zap Cannon. Whereas Salamence cannot Taunt and therefore allows Forretress to lay Spikes, it often packs Fire Blast or Flamethrower. Even if it doesn't, Forretress can't do much of anything to Salamence. Forretress also can't get past Heracross without using Hidden Power Flying. Magneton can trap Forretress, but has to be wary about Earthquake.</p>



    c/p (open)

    [Overview]

    <p>Forretress has an easy time setting up Spikes, making it a good choice on standard teams; it can also Rapid Spin, which is always a plus. However, Forretress has one really, really big problem: its offense blows. It has to resort to type advantages from Hidden Power Bug and Earthquake, status from Zap Cannon or Toxic, or Explosion to pose any sort of a threat. While its excellent resistances make it a great wall, Forretress is easily rendered useless by threats with a setup move.</p>

    <p>In addition, Forretress faces competition as a wall from Skarmory, which has the advantage of phazing capability and Flying-type STAB; the former lets it take advantage of the entry hazards it sets up while the latter enables it to keep Gyarados and Heracross at bay. Forretress, on the other hand, can barely touch them outside of Explosion, Hidden Power, or Zap Cannon. Furthermore, Skarmory is a better bet against most physical hitters, as it is immune to Ground, resists Flying, and 4x resists Bug, while Forretress takes neutral damage from Ground and Flying and only has a 2x resistance to Bug. Forretress has the slight advantage of having only one weakness as opposed to Skarmory's two, namely to Fire and Electric. However, Forretress will be OHKOed by any Fire move because its weakness is 4x, while Skarmory will usually survive one unexpected Thunderbolt or Flamethrower. All in all, if you want Spikes and Rapid Spin on your team or need a Pokemon that both walls Metagross and can actually hurt it, Forretress is your friend. As long as you know where it shines (walling and utility) and where it sucks (stopping setup), it will be a welcome addition to your team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Standard
    move 1: Spikes
    move 2: Rapid Spin
    move 3: Hidden Power Bug
    move 4: Explosion / Earthquake / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Careful
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Forretress doesn't have many weaknesses, so setting up Spikes should be a manageable task. Forretress can also Rapid Spin opposing Spikes away, but beware of Ghost-types. Hidden Power Bug provides STAB that hits Tyranitar, Starmie, Celebi, and random switch-ins such as Blissey. Earthquake can be used to repel Magneton and keep Metagross at bay. Explosion is for when Forretress's job is done, namely when the opponent's Spikes or Rapid Spin user is removed, you have enough Spikes yourself, and you no longer need Forretress's walling capabilities. Alternatively, Toxic can weaken some of Forretress's switch-ins and really hurt Cloyster if your opponent is relying on it for Rapid Spin.</p>

    <p>Maximize HP and Special Defense; it allows Forretress to set up Spikes in the face of special attackers like Milotic and Regice much more easily. The Special Defense is also a major ally when facing Starmie, which normally threatens Forretress with Surf. A more physically defensive spread can be used to set up on physical attackers, but because many of them set up so easily, Forretress can easily find itself having switching out every time they come in to prevent a sweep. Specially defensive Forretress can also manage versus Magneton and Jirachi much easier, especially if using Earthquake. That being said, don't rely solely on Forretress to keep Jirachi at bay&mdash;its high defenses and ability to Calm Mind will eventually take out Forretress, but in most cases it will want to avoid allowing Forretress to set up all three layers of Spikes.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Zap Cannon can paralyze the likes of Skarmory, Gengar, Gyarados, Salamence, and Cloyster, but Heracross sponges it easily and might even gain a Guts boost. Reflect and Light Screen can provide a useful boost to your team's defenses; the latter is especially handy as most people will switch in a special attacker. For instance, Light Screen enables Forretress to survive Magneton's Hidden Power Fire and OHKO it with Earthquake. Forretress survives even attacks from +6 Snorlax and OHKOes it with Counter. Hidden Power Flying lets Forretress take on Heracross and Breloom. Protect grants Forretress extra Leftovers recovery, but more importantly allows it to scout Snorlax and Salamence for Fire-type moves. Hidden Power Steel provides STAB and is the best option against Gengar bar Hidden Power Ghost, which won't do anything to Tyranitar.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>The best counter in the game to Forretress is Gengar because it is immune to Rapid Spin and packs powerful special attacks in addition to a base 130 Special Attack. In general, all Ghost-types ruin Forretress just by virtue of blocking Rapid Spin. Opposing spinners also trouble Forretress. Claydol is immune to Earthquake, Zap Cannon, and Spikes, but it is weak to Hidden Power Bug and hates Toxic. Donphan isn't scared of anything but Toxic. Gyarados can Taunt and freely set up Dragon Dance boosts for a sweep if Forretress lacks Counter or Zap Cannon. Whereas Salamence cannot Taunt and therefore allows Forretress to lay Spikes, it often packs Fire Blast or Flamethrower. Even if it doesn't, Forretress can't do much of anything to Salamence. Forretress also can't get past Heracross without using Hidden Power Flying. Magneton can trap Forretress, but has to be wary about Earthquake.</p>


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