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Forretress (Ubers analysis)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by giggity69, May 12, 2011.

  1. giggity69

    giggity69

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    [​IMG]
    Forretress (Analysis)

    [Overview]

    <p>Forretress is still Forretress. He remains exceptionally good at what he does, namely providing entry hazard and Rapid Spin support, though outside of that role, he is extremely limited. Generation 5 brought him a few new toys to play with in Volt Switch, and the improvement to his long-time ability, Sturdy, which now acts as a psuedo Focus Sash. Though, unfortunately for Forretress, numerous Pokemon such as Reshiram and Magic Bounce Xatu have also come into play, making life a bit harder. All in all, play safe, support him well, and watch as your opponent is shredded and poisoned at every turn by layer after layer of entry hazards. Or, be a bit reckless, and shudder as your bagworm is repeatedly wiped out with every poor prediction you make. As long as he is not pushed too far outside his limits, Forretress will not disappoint.</p>

    name: Ubers Specially Defensive
    move 1: Toxic Spikes
    move 2: Rapid Spin
    move 3: Spikes / Stealth Rock
    move 4: Volt Change / Gyro Ball / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    nature : Calm / Sassy
    evs : 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [Set Comments]

    <p>Forretress’s amazing Bug / Steel typing, great overall bulk, and access Rapid Spin, as well as all three entry hazards, make it a great choice for a support role on nearly any team. Toxic Spikes are the crux of the set, and are incredibly dangerous in Ubers, due to the relatively limited selection of viable Pokemon immune to them, and with the prevalence of Choice item and Draco Meteor users, Forretress will find plenty of opportunities to set them up. Toxic Spikes ability to put dangerous sweepers, such as non-Flying, Steel-, or Poison-type, non-refresh-carrying formes of Arceus (Most notably the Extremekiller), Rock Polish Groudon, and Mewtwo on a timer, significantly lessens the load on a teams defensive core when dealing with such threats, and can often be the difference between getting swept, and staving off the assault. Rapid Spin is where Forretress carves out its biggest niche; thanks to its great resistances to common attacking types, including Ghost, Dark, Ice, and Dragon it is able to consistently switch in and remove entry hazards, allowing Pokemon such as Ho-Oh, Lugia, and Reshiram to come into play without loosing huge chunks of their health. Bulky grounded Pokemon, such as Groudon, Palkia, most Arceus formes, and Chansey also appreciate Forretress’s ability to remove Toxic Spikes, as they significantly reduce their staying power, even with only one layer. Spikes is generally the best option in the third slot, as there are fewer Pokemon able to reliably set them up, and it gives Forretress something to with Outrage turns, should Toxic Spikes not be as helpful against the opposing team. Stealth Rock is a fine option on more offensively oriented teams, where another member may be unable to tack it on their moveset. Volt Change, Gyro Ball, and Toxic are mainly fillers, but they have their uses. The first allows Forretress to act as a scout after it has already gotten a layer or two, and can be useful for setting up a Pursuit-trap on an expecting Spinblocker, or just building momentum. Gyro Ball provides Forretress with a usably meaty STAB attack, and can hit common switch-ins, such as Mewtwo, Darkrai, and Giratina-O for reasonable damage; if Gyro Ball is used, be sure to use a Sassy nature with a 0 Speed IV for maximum power output. Finally, Toxic allows Forretress to both cripple walls, such as Lugia and Ho-Oh, who are immune to his Toxic Spikes, as well as wear down Ghost-types blocking Rapid Spin, and punish unwary Arceus formes who may try to set up on Forretress.</p>

    <p>Max HP and Special Defense with a Special Defense boosting nature is necessary to make the most of Forretress’s relatively low special bulk, and it needs all it can get to take the repeated Draco Meteors and Ice Beams thrown around in the tier. Leftovers is the item of choice, as Forretress needs the passive recovery to help shrug off weak or resisted attacks; keep in mind, however, that even with full investment, neutral special attacks still take a fair chunk out of his health, so be sure and play off of his numerous resistances. </p>

    [Additional Comments]

    <p>Payback and can wear down Ghost-types such as Giratina-O, who may try and block Rapid Spin, although the change in Payback's mechanics prevents it from doing much damage should you catch its intended target on the switch, and Gyro Ball is usually more consistent. A physically defensive spread (252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Def Impish/Relaxed) is viable if your team needs Forretress to take physical hits from the likes of Groudon and Garchomp better, but without the investment in Special Defense, even resisted hits such as Ice Beam and Spacial Rend can take a chunk of health out of him.</p>

    <p>A Ghost-type is a mandatory teammate to block Rapid Spin, which can make all of Forretress's hard work useless; the Giratina formes are probably the best, and both have good synergy with Forretress, though Ghost-type Arceus makes a great choice as well. Blissey and Chansey can take most any special attack directed at Forretress in stride, while supporting the team with Wish or Stealth Rock; Forretress can easily set up on many of the physical attackers that threaten the pink blobs in return, such as Garchomp and Groudon that lack a Fire-type move. Palkia can switch in on Specs Kyogre, a common, and terrifying switch in to Forretress, and threaten it out with Thunder, while also having great synergy with the shell. Sweepers like non-immune Calm Mind Arceus and Kyogre love having Forretress as a partner, to both set up, and remove Toxic Spikes. Ho-Oh and Reshiram enjoy Rapid Spin support, and can easily switch into most Fire-type attacks for Forretress; the bagworm can also tank Dragon-type moves for Reshiram in return, and can usually come in on defensive Groudon, who is a constant threat to Ho-Oh. Groudon also forms a potent physically defensive duo with Forretress, and can run Stealth Rock, psuedo haze to rack up entry hazard damage with Roar or Dragon Tail, and scare Dialga off with STAB Earthquake. Kyogre can lessen Forretress's Fire-type weakness thanks to Drizzle, and can also scare off Fire Punch Groudon, Ho-Oh, and select Arceus formes. Zekrom can stop defensive Kyogre and Ho-Oh with its STAB Bolt Strike.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>As previously mentioned, Forretress is fairly limited outside of what has already been mentioned. Shed Shell is an option to escape from Magnezone or Chandelure, in Dream World, though Forretress will greatly miss the Leftovers recovery. Pain Split can help recover chunks health while annoying some of his common switch-ins, such as Kyogre, Giratina-O, Ho-Oh, and Dialga, but the recovery is unreliable mid to late game, and it is generally hard to find a moveslot for it. Forretress learns Reflect and Light Screen, and can make decent use of them, but it is usually best to either switch out, Volt Change, or just get another layer rather than use a screen. Under Light Screen and rain, however, Forretress can be a tough nut to crack. Protect can be used in the last slot to scout for things carrying a Fire-type attack, such as Espeon and Groudon, and can also ease prediction when dealing with choice item-users, but the listed moves are generally more useful, and Forretress has four moveslot syndrome as it is. Lastly, Earthquake can be used to catch Heatran, Magnezone, and Reshiram on the switch.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Magic Bounce Espeon and Xatu with Hidden Power Fire are probably Forretress's biggest counters; they reflect his attempts to set up entry hazards and can OHKO him with a 4x super effective Hidden Power. Tentacruel can also be annoying, as it absorbs Toxic Spikes, has access to Rapid Spin, and can scare Forretress off with a potentially rain-boosted Scald, while Forretress can do little back bar Earthquake. Foretress has trouble with any Pokemon carrying a Fire-type move, as nearly all will OHKO if rain is not present; Reshiram, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina-O, and Mewtwo are the most common users. Choice Scarf Palkia can switch into Fire-type attacks coming from Reshiram, Giratina-O, opposing Palkia, and Mewtwo, and threaten them out with its STAB Dragon-type moves, though it must be very wary of coming in on an unexpected Dragon-type move itself. Although Groudon is normally set up fodder for Forretress, it will sometimes run Fire Punch or Overheat fry the bug. Both Ho-Oh and Reshiram can switch in at will and threaten Forretress with their STAB Sacred Fire or Blue Flare, respectively, while only really fearing Stealth Rock damage or Toxic. Kyogre has little to fear from any of Forretress’s attacks, and can drown it without question with its Water-type STAB moves. Although rare in today's metagame, Heatran can roast Forretress with Lava Plume or Fire Blast. Poison Heal Gliscor can freely come in and either Taunt Forretress or set up a Substitute.</p>

    [Dreamworld]

    <p>Forretress got Overcoat from Dreamworld, which protects against damage from weather. This may be a viable option should Forretress find itself on a hail-centric team, though Sturdy is generally the superior option in Uber battles. Shadow Tag Chandelure can be a great teammate as it can trap and kill several common switch-ins to Forretress after he Volt Changes out of them. A Custap Berry in conjunction with the new Sturdy mechanic can allow Forretress to function as a sort of suicide lead, but that is usually a waste of its defensive potential.</p>

    Show Hide
    Forretress (Analysis)

    [Overview]

    Forretress is still Forretress. He remains exceptionally good at what he does, namely providing entry hazard and Rapid Spin support, though outside of that role, he is extremely limited. Generation 5 brought him a few new toys to play with in Volt Switch, and the improvement to his long-time ability, Sturdy, which now acts as a psuedo Focus Sash. Though, unfortunately for Forretress, numerous Pokemon like Reshiram and Magic Bounce Espeon have also come into play, making life a bit harder. Play safe, support him well, and watch as your opponent is shredded and poisoned at every turn by layer after layer of entry hazards. Or, be a bit reckless, and shudder as your bagworm is repeatedly wiped out with every poor prediction you make. As long as he is not pushed too far outside his limits, Forretress will not disappoint.

    name: Specially Defensive
    move 1: Toxic Spikes
    move 2: Rapid Spin
    move 3: Spikes / Stealth Rock
    move 4: Volt Change / Gyro Ball / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    nature : Calm
    evs : 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [Set Comments]


    • Best defensive user of Toxic Spikes in Ubers, and the most consistent user of Rapid Spin

    • Has great resistances to common attacking types including Ghost, Dark, Ice, and Dragon.

    • Very exploitable Fire-type weakness that needs to be well covered.

    • Neutral special attacks still take a fair chunk out of his health, so play off of his great resistances,

    • Spikes is generally better as there are fewer Pokemon able to reliably set them up, and it gives Forretress something to with Outrage turns should Toxic Spikes not be as helpful against the opposing team. Stealth Rock is a fine option on more offensively oriented teams where another member may be unable to tack it on their moveset.

    • Volt Change and Toxic are mainly fillers, but they have their uses. The first allows Forretress to act as a scout after it has already gotten a layer or two, while Toxic allows Forretress to cripple walls and wear down Ghost-types blocking Rapid Spin.
    [Additional Comments]

    • Gyro Ball and Payback are both options that can deter frail threats such as Darkrai, Shaymin-S, and Mewtwo from setting up on Forretress; Payback and can wear down Ghost-types such as Giratina-O, who may try and block Rapid Spin, although the change in Payback's mechanics prevents it from doing much damage should you catch its intended target on the switch. If either attack is run, be sure to use either a Careful (Payback) or Sassy with a 0 speed IV (Gyro Ball) nature.

    • A physically defensive spread (252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Def Impish/Relaxed) is viable if your team needs Forretress to take physical hits from the likes of Groudon and Garchomp better, but without the investment in Special Defense, even resisted hits like Ice Beam and Spacial Rend can take a chunk of health out of him.
    • Blissey and Chansey can take most any special attack directed at Forretress in stride, while supporting the team with Wish or Stealth Rock.
    • A Ghost-type is a mandatory teammate to block Rapid Spin, which can make all of Forretress' hard work useless.
      • The Giratina formes are probably the best, and both have good synergy with Forretress
    • Palkia can switch in on Specs Kyogre and threaten it out with Thunder, while also having great synergy with Forretress.
    • Sweepers like Calm Mind Arceus and Kyogre love having Forretress as a partner to both set up and remove Toxic Spikes.
    • Ho-Oh and Reshiram enjoy Rapid Spin support, and can easily switch into most Fire-type attacks from Forretress.
    • Groudon forms a potent physically defensive duo with Forretress, and can run Stealth Rock, psuedo haze to rack up entry hazard damage with Roar or Dragon Tail, and scare Dialga off with STAB Earthquake.
    • Kyogre can lessen Forretress' Fire-type weakness thanks to Drizzle, and can also scare off Fire Punch Groudon, Ho-Oh, and select Arceus formes.
    • Zekrom can stop defensive Kyogre and Ho-Oh with its STAB Bolt Strike.
    [Other Options]

    • Shed Shell is an option to escape from Magnezone or Chandelure, in Dream World.
    • Pain Split can help Forretress recover health while annoying some of his common switch-ins, such as Kyogre, Espeon, Ho-Oh, and Dialga.
    • Forretress learns Reflect and Light Screen, and can make decent use of them, but it is usually best to either switch out, Volt Change, or just get another layer rather than use a screen. Under Light Screen and rain, Forretress can be a tough nut to crack, though.
    • Protect can be used in the last slot to scout for things carrying a Fire-type attack, such as Espeon, and can also ease prediction when dealing with choice item-users.
    [Checks and Counters]


    • Magic Bounce Espeon with Hidden Power Fire is probably Forretress' biggest counter. It reflects his attempts to set up entry hazards and can OHKO him with a 4x super effective Hidden Power.
    • Magic Bounce Xatu is pretty much the same.
    • Foretress has trouble with any Pokemon carrying a Fire-type move, as nearly all will OHKO if rain is not present; Reshiram, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina-O, and Mewtwo are the most common users. Choice Scarf Palkia can switch into Fire-type attacks coming from Reshiram, Giratina-O, opposing Palkia, and Mewtwo, and threaten them out with its STAB Dragon-type moves, though it must be very wary of comming in on an unexpected Dragon-type move itself.
    • Although Groudon is normally set up fodder for Forretress, it will sometimes run Fire Punch or Overheat fry the Bug.
    • Both Ho-Oh and Reshiram can switch in at will and threaten Forretress with their STAB Sacred Fire or Blue Flare, respectively, while only really fearing Stealth Rock damage.
    • Although rare in today's metagame, Heatran can roast Forretress with Lava Plume.
    • Poison Heal Gliscor can freely come in and either Taunt Forretress or set up a Substitute.

    [Dreamworld]

    Forretress got Overcoat from Dreamworld, which protects against damage from weather. This may be a viable option should Forretress find itself on a hail-centric team, though Sturdy is generally the superior option in Uber battles. Shadow Tag Chandelure can be a great teammate as it can trap and kill several common switch-ins to Forretress after he Volt Changes out of them. A Custap Berry in conjunction with the new Sturdy mechanic can allow Forretress to function as a sort of suicide lead, but that is usually a waste of its defensive potential.
  2. Focus

    Focus Pachiiiiii Pooowwweeerrrr!!!!!
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    No mention of the new Sturdy mechanic? Not being OHKOed by anything at full health except Reshiram's fire attacks is really neat. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Custap Berry has not been released yet and does not need to be mentioned.
  3. shrang

    shrang I AM CHAMPION CHRISTMAS!!
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    I do believe the 4th move comes before the item o_0. Anyway, Payback or Gyro Ball should be slashed on the last spot (they're better than Toxic, IMO). While Payback has its mechanics change, it still allows you to stop Sub/CM Giratina-O from setting up on you, which can be huge for a stall team.
  4. barry4ever

    barry4ever
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    -Custap isnt released yet, so it shouldnt be mentioned at all

    -Blissey should be slashed along with Chansey, as a good team mate

    EDIT: Agreeing with Shrang. The last moveslot slash should be Volt Change / Gyro Ball / Payback and Toxic should be relegated to AC. (Oh and I'm not sure about the order, but I'll put Volt Change first since it allows you to swicth out of Giratina and bring in something capable of threatening it. Also I'd mention that when using Gyro Ball, a Sassy nature with 0 Spe IVs should be used for maximum damage. Does a decent 26.1% - 30.8% to Mixed Giratina-O, while Payback does a bit more at 29.9% - 35.4%


    EDIT2: Youre missing your Counters section. -__-
  5. trickroom

    trickroom
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    Add your Counters section like what barry4ever said.

    Blissey probably needs to be mentioned and Blissey can fry opposing Forretress with a Fire-type attack. Forretress isn't killing an opposing Forretress lol.

    I think put Gyro Ball as the main slash in the last moveslot. Payback is pretty useless since it no longer doubles in power on the switch in. It will do lol damage to Giratina-O. Payback is only useful to beat Calm Mind Giratina-O who isn't common at all. Toxic on the other hand, cripples Giratina-O and Ghost Arceus. Toxic also prevents Forretress from being set up on by some bulky sweepers such as Arceus and Swords Dance Groudon. Gyro Ball does more damage to Mewtwo, Darkrai, Shaymin-S and Rayquaza compare to Payback would. Volt Change is fine but without Chandelure support, it is much less useful. It's probably better to set up Spikes as Giratina comes in than Volt Change out.

    Remove all Custap Berry mentions and put those in Dream World.

    Kyogre is a great partner by bringing in the rain and scaring off Fire Punch Groudon, Ho-Oh and some Arceus formes(Steel, Ground, Rock). Forretress on the other hand sets up on Blissey, Chansey and Ferrothorn easily while resisting Grass at the same time.

    Zekrom should be mentioned as a partner because it stops Ho-Oh and defensive Kyogre. Forretress can set up on some Groudon without any Fire-attack.

    Mention Chandelure as a large threat and great partner to Forretress in the Dream World Section.

    [​IMG]
    QC APPROVED (1/2)
  6. giggity69

    giggity69

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    Yeah, how I forgot an entire section is beyond me XD Most changes were implamented, but for the last slot, I think it should be Volt Change / Gyro Ball with Payback and Toxic in the AC. I would like to keep toxic on, but three slashes looks ugly, so whatever. It does have some really nice uses, though.

    It is nice to have a trapper, but volt changing out of a gira-o or something and going to Palkia is almost as good. It is more useful on offensive teams for momentum building (Lol, yes, building offensive momentum with a Forretress) then defensive ones. I usually use Toxic or Pain Split when I use him on a stall team (Pain Split lets him set up / spin on Ferro and RAPE chansey)
  7. barry4ever

    barry4ever
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    Espeon is good admitted, but i think Xatu deserves a mention as well since many Ubers(tbh i have seen only MB Xatus and not a single MB Espeon) players prefer to run Xatu over Espeon due to Roost and Ground Immune.
  8. giggity69

    giggity69

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    Ok, will mention.
  9. calze6

    calze6

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    Gyro Ball, Payback and EQ still needs a slash as it can prevent CM gira-O and mewtwo from setting up.
  10. giggity69

    giggity69

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    Too many slashes IMO. Gyro Ball may be worth it... maybe... I guess its ok sometimes, but most of the time, I would rather be able to volt change out on the switch or poison punk ass kyogre or something. Even when I have Gyro ball, I click it maybe once out of like 30 games. It is kind of nice for random terrakion, though.

    Payback is definitely not slash worthy anymore. Not being able to hit gira-o for anything more than piss (On the switch, at least) kind of detracts from the only point of using it. CM tina-o is hella rare, and Mewtwo almost always has a fire move, so ...

    Wait... why would EQ be slashed? Heatran? Magnezone? Overspecializing for pokes that are really rare doesn't make sense to me. AC at best
  11. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
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    Gyro Ball is still slash worthy in the last slot, though I feel Volt Change should still be the primary option. Having a meaty STAB attack is still useful. I also use Toxic Forry myself and feel it should stay. Tis very useful against Arceus who think they can come in for free happy set up fun time.

    EQ in Other Options to stop Heatran and Zone from wrecking you. It also stops Reshiram from coming in for free.

    Great otherwise.

    [​IMG]
  12. alex 67

    alex 67

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    I agree that Toxic is very useful especially for extremekiller arceus. I think a spread with some evs in defense and special defense may also deserve a mention. Using the special spread actually makes even resisted boosted physical hits do surprising amounts of damage while the physical spread is far too weak specially for this environment. Personally I've tried 252 Hp 56 Def 200 SDef with an Impish nature. There's probably a more efficient spread but unless I've miscalculated Scarf Palkia will 4HKO at best with Spacial Rend accounting for Leftovers and Stealth Rock while defensive variants of Groudon can only 4HKO with Eartquake under the same conditions.
  13. giggity69

    giggity69

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  14. Banedon

    Banedon

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    Amateur check

    Bold for replace, insert, etc
    Red for delete
    Blue for comments

    I'm a bit short on time at the moment, will add the comments and proofread the proofreading later.

    Ok so:

    #1 - Don't really understand this sentence. Can you elaborate on what you mean?
    #2 - You said in the overview that you should "support Forretress well". It can't be "nearly any team" then, can it?
    #3 - Might want to mention that you can Volt Switch to something like Darkrai, Mewtwo or Deoxys-A to get a frail sweeper in safely.
    #4 - Forretress is a bagworm? You also referred to it as "shell" and "bug" ...
  15. dragonboy52

    dragonboy52
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    Just a small note: you should change 'Volt Change' to 'Volt Switch' on the set moves.
  16. Calm Pokemaster

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    [Overview]

    <p>Forretress is still Forretress. He It remains exceptionally good at what he it does, namely providing entry hazard and Rapid Spin support, though outside of that role, He it is extremely limited. Generation 5 brought him it a few new toys to play with in Volt Switch, and the improvement to his long-time ability, Sturdy, which now acts as a psuedo Focus Sash. Though, unfortunately for Forretress, numerous Pokemon such as Sadly, threats such as Reshiram and Magic Bounce Xatu have also come into play, making life a bit harder. All in all, play safe, support him Forretress well, and watch as your opponent is shredded and poisoned at every turn by layer after layer of entry hazards. Or, Be a bit reckless though, and shudder as your bagworm is repeatedly wiped out with every poor prediction you make. As long as he is not pushed too far outside his limits, Forretress will not disappoint. (Avoid really cliched sentences like this)</p>

    name: Ubers Specially Defensive
    move 1: Toxic Spikes
    move 2: Rapid Spin
    move 3: Spikes / Stealth Rock
    move 4: Volt Change / Gyro Ball / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    nature : Calm / Sassy
    evs : 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [Set Comments]

    <p>Forretress's amazing Bug / Steel typing, great overall bulk, and access to Rapid Spin, as well as all three entry hazards, make it a great choice for a support role on nearly any team. Toxic Spikes are the crux of the set; they and are incredibly dangerous in Ubers, due to the relatively limited selection range of viable Pokemon immune to them, and with the prevalence of Choice item and Draco Meteor users, Forretress will find plenty of opportunities to set them up, putting threatening sweepers such as Rock Polish Groudon, Mewtwo, and any Arceus formes lacking Refresh or a Poison-type immunity on a timer. This will also lessen the load on a team's defensive core when dealing with such threats significantly. Toxic Spikes ability to put dangerous sweepers, such as non-Flying, Steel-, or Poison-type, non-refresh-carrying formes of Arceus (Most notably the Extremekiller), Rock Polish Groudon, and Mewtwo on a timer, significantly lessens the load on a teams defensive core when dealing with such threats, and can often be the difference between getting swept, and staving off the assault. Rapid Spin is where Forretress carves out its biggest niche; thanks to its great resistances to common attacking types, including Ghost-, Dark-, Ice-, and Dragon-type attacks, it is able to consistently switch in and remove entry hazards, allowing Pokemon such as Ho-Oh, Lugia, and Reshiram to come into play without losing huge chunks of their health. Bulky grounded Pokemon, such as Groudon, Palkia, most Arceus formes, and Chansey also appreciate Forretress's ability to remove the Toxic Spikes, as they which significantly reduce their staying power, even with only one layer. Spikes is generally the best option in the third slot, as there are few other Pokemon able to reliably set them up, and it also gives Forretress something to do with Outrage turns against attackers locked into Outrage, should Toxic Spikes not be as helpful against the opposing team. Stealth Rock is a fine option on more offensively oriented teams, where another member may be unable to tack it onto their moveset. Volt Change, Gyro Ball, and Toxic are mainly filler options, but they have their uses. The first allows Forretress to act as a scout after it has already gotten a layer or two of entry hazards up, and can be useful for setting up a Pursuit trap on an expecting spinblocker, or just building momentum. Gyro Ball provides Forretress with a usably meaty STAB attack, and can hit common switch-ins, such as Mewtwo, Darkrai, and Giratina-O for reasonable damage; if Gyro Ball is used, be sure to use a Sassy nature with a 0 Speed IV for maximum power damage output. Finally, Toxic allows Forretress to both cripple walls, such as Lugia and Ho-Oh, who which are immune to his Toxic Spikes, as well as wear down Ghost-types blocking Rapid Spin spinblockers, and punish unwary Arceus formes who may try to set up on Forretress.</p>

    <p>Max HP and Special Defense with a Special Defense boosting nature is necessary to make the most of Forretress’s relatively low special bulk, and it needs all it can get to take the repeated Draco Meteors and Ice Beams thrown around in the tier. Leftovers is the item of choice, as Forretress needs the passive recovery to help shrug off weak or resisted attacks; keep in mind, however, that even with full investment, neutral special attacks still take a fair chunk out of his health, so be sure and play off of his numerous resistances. </p> (We only write about stuff like the EV spread, item, nature etc in AC, not in Set Comments - please go through the Analysis Formatting Guide for more details)

    [Additional Comments]

    <p>Max HP and Special Defense along with a Special Defense-boosting nature is necessary to make the most of Forretress's relatively low special bulk, and it needs all it can get to take the repeated Draco Meteors and Ice Beams thrown around in Ubers. Leftovers is the item of choice, as the passive recovery helps Forretress to shrug off weak or resisted attacks; keep in mind, however, that even with full investment, neutral special attacks still take a fair chunk out of its health, so ensure that you play off of his numerous resistances.</p>

    <p>Payback and can wear down Ghost-type spinblcokers such as Giratina-O, who may try and block Rapid Spin, although the change in Payback's mechanics prevents it from doing much damage should you catch its intended target on the switch, and Gyro Ball is usually more consistent. A physically defensive spread (252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Def with an Impish or Relaxed nature) is viable if your team needs Forretress to take physical hits from the likes of Groudon and Garchomp better, but without the investment in Special Defense, even resisted hits such as Ice Beam and Spacial Rend can take a chunk of health out of him deal heavy damage.</p>

    <p>A Ghost-type is a mandatory teammate to block Rapid Spin, which can make all of Forretress's hard work useless; the Giratina formes are probably the best, and both have good synergy with Forretress, though Ghost-type Arceus makes a great choice as well. Blissey and Chansey can take most any special attack directed at Forretress in stride, while supporting the team with Wish or Stealth Rock; Forretress can easily set up on many of the physical attackers that threaten the pink blobs in return, such as Garchomp and Groudon that lack a Fire-type move. Palkia can switch in on into Choice Specs Kyogre, Reshiram, Giratina-O, opposing Palkia, and Mewtwo, a common, and terrifying switch-ins to Forretress, and threaten it them out with Thunder or its STAB Dragon-type attacks, while also having great synergy with the shell thus making a great teammate. Sweepers like non-immune such as most Calm Mind Arceus and Kyogre love having Forretress as a partner, to both set up, and remove Toxic Spikes. Ho-Oh and Reshiram enjoy Rapid Spin support, and can easily switch into most Fire-type attacks for Forretress; the bagworm can also tank Dragon-type moves for Reshiram in return, and can usually come in on defensive Groudon, who which is a constant threat to Ho-Oh. Groudon also forms a potent physically defensive duo core with Forretress, and can run Stealth Rock, psuedo haze to rack up entry hazard damage with Roar or Dragon Tail, and scare Dialga off with STAB Earthquake. Kyogre can lessen Forretress's Fire-type weakness thanks to Drizzle, and can also scare off destroy Fire Punch Groudon, Ho-Oh, and select Arceus formes. Zekrom can stop defensive Kyogre and Ho-Oh with its STAB Bolt Strike.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>As previously mentioned, Forretress is fairly limited outside of what has already been mentioned. Shed Shell is an option to escape from Magnezone, or Chandelure, in Dream World Ubers, though Forretress will greatly miss the Leftovers recovery. Pain Split can help recover chunks health while annoying some of his common switch-ins, such as Kyogre, Giratina-O, Ho-Oh, and Dialga, but the recovery is unreliable mid- to late-game, and it is also generally hard to find a moveslot for it. Forretress learns Reflect and Light Screen, and can thus make decent use of them a dual screens set, but it is usually best to either switch out, Volt Change, or just get another layer of entry hazards up rather than use a screen. Under Light Screen and rain, however, Forretress can be a tough nut to crack with even Fire-type attacks. Protect can be used in the last slot to scout for things carrying a Fire-type attack, such as Espeon and Groudon, and can also easing prediction when dealing with Choice item users, but the listed moves are generally more useful, and Forretress has the four moveslot syndrome as it is. Lastly, Earthquake can be used to catch Heatran, Magnezone, and Reshiram on the switch.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Magic Bounce Espeon and Xatu with Hidden Power Fire are probably Forretress's biggest counters; they reflect his its attempts to set up entry hazards and can OHKO him with a 4x super effective Hidden Power. Tentacruel can also be annoying, as it absorbs Toxic Spikes, has access to Rapid Spin, and can scare Forretress off with a potentially rain-boosted Scald, while Forretress can do little back bar Earthquake. Foretress has trouble with any Pokemon carrying a Fire-type move, as nearly all will OHKO if rain is not present; Reshiram, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina-O, and Mewtwo are the most common users. Choice Scarf Palkia can switch into Fire-type attacks coming from Reshiram, Giratina-O, opposing Palkia, and Mewtwo, and threaten them out with its STAB Dragon-type moves, though it must be very wary of coming in on an unexpected Dragon-type move itself. (I shifted most of this sentence to AC; do not talk about a Pokemon's teammates in the Counters section) Although Groudon is normally setup fodder for Forretress, it will sometimes run Fire Punch or Overheat to fry the bug. Both Ho-Oh and Reshiram can switch in at will and threaten Forretress with their STAB Sacred Fire or Blue Flare, respectively Fire-type attacks, while only really fearing Stealth Rock damage or Toxic. Kyogre has little to fear from any of Forretress's attacks, and can drown it without question with its Water-type STAB moves. Finally, although rare in today's metagame, Heatran can roast Forretress with Lava Plume or Fire Blast, and Poison Heal Gliscor can freely come in and either Taunt Forretress or set up a Substitute.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>Forretress got Overcoat from Dreamworld, which protects against damage from weather. This may be a viable option should Forretress find itself on a hail-centric team, though Sturdy is generally the superior option in Uber battles. In Dream World Ubers, Shadow Tag Chandelure can also be a great teammate as it can trap and kill several common switch-ins to Forretress after he it Volt Changes out of them. A Custap Berry in conjunction with the new Sturdy mechanic can allow Forretress to function as a sort of suicide lead, but that is usually a waste of its defensive potential.</p>


    There was a certain amount of inconsistency with ''he'' and ''it'' - I just changed everything to ''it'', and also the ''who''s to ''which'' as a result. Other than that though, this was mostly pretty good.

    [​IMG]

    GP 1 / 2
  17. giggity69

    giggity69

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    I am currently busy with finals and other school stuff, if someone wants to edit the changes in go for it.
  18. dragonboy52

    dragonboy52
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  19. giggity69

    giggity69

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    There is a new thread, this can be locked

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