1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

BW RU Foundations (peaked #1): An RU Stall Team by SilentVerse and DittoCrow

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by SilentVerse, Jun 29, 2012.

  1. SilentVerse

    SilentVerse Into the New World
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Past SPL Winner
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2009
    Messages:
    902
    [​IMG]
    DANK banner by Keiran!

    "Always make sure that you lay down a good foundation. The rest takes time, but it works without a hitch so long as the foundation is solid."

    Introduction: (DittoCrow's comments will be in italics.)

    Heya, this is SilentVerse with another RU RMT, but this time, it's a joint RMT with DittoCrow. I made this team around mid March, after I took over Windsong's stall guide. Since I was going to RMT Dancing Free soon, I knew it would no longer be as effective as it had once been. Thus, I knew I would need a new team that would be just as effective, especially with the RU Tournament coming up. I almost always use balance, so that would be expected, and I didn't really feel like making a more offensive team, as I'm usually mediocre at using them, so I decided to make a strong stall team. Rarelyused is a metagame with so many offensive threats, and unfortunately, stall hasn't been as common as it should be, even though it truly is a very respectable playstyle.

    The fun thing about making this team is that it was really inspired by a lot of different people, as their thoughts on certain Pokemon and use of the made me really consider using them for this stall team. The key to this team, like any stall team, is to counter offensive threats, while using available opportunities with Roselia and Steelix to set up their hazards, putting pressure on the opponent as they struggle to dent my walls. Of course, due to the sheer amount of threats that there are to cover in Rarelyused, I haven't been able to cover everything with this team as well as I'd like; in fact, there are certain Pokemon who, if they manage to wear down my counter enough, can easily rip through the team, and there's actually a couple of Pokemon who can tear this team apart with good prediction. Still, most threats are checked twice for insurance, and even those troublesome threats can be simply "played around", as some of the walls on this team are so bulky that even super effective hits will fail to KO, which gives me a bit of leeway for error. This team has peaked at #1 quite a few times, got me to Round 4 in the Rarelyused Tournament, and McMeghan used it to win against Leftiez in the Rarelyused Tournament finals. I also won the first Mini Rarelyused Tournament with this team!

    Hey guys, this is DittoCrow presenting a joint RMT with SilentVerse. I originally made this team for The Rarelyused Tournament II. The way I build teams in RU is by attempting to cover all of the common threats in the tier. I like balance teams, so I tried to build another version of Balance Beam with a four Pokemon core. However, since Honchkrow and Sharpedo were banned, people substituted them with new threats which made it much harder for a four Pokemon core to be successful. I needed a really solid team, so I began to study the most effective Pokemon, playstyles, and movesets. One thing that I had noticed, specifically from Zebraiken's Daylight, was that hazards were extremely efficient in wearing down the opposing team. I saw that pairing a Spikes user with two Ghost-types made sure that the opponent would never get the chance to Rapid Spin, so I started from there.

    While eavesdropping in #neverused one day, I overheard an astounding fact: Misdreavus gets Heal Bell. This could work perfectly on a more defensive oriented balance team, as removing status from bulky teammates and sweepers is extremely frustrating for the opponent; Misdreavus would also serve as a spinblocker. When building the team, I noticed that my four Pokemon core could not be perfect if I had two Ghost-types, as they both had similar weaknesses. Then, I added a fifth bulky teammate to the core. At that moment I noticed that I had less than five major weaknesses on the threatlist, so I added a last Pokemon which covered most of them, thus molding the team into a stall team. After I lost in the tournament, I decided to help SilentVerse train in the mountains. We first compared teams, and to our surprise, they were almost exactly the same! Only three Pokemon were different, and they all played very similar roles. Hopefully this RMT will be really interesting because it will show how two different teambuilding processes came together to form one awesome team!


    tl;dr this team is cool. Read the RMT.

    Team at a Glance:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    SilentVerse's Team Building Process (open)

    [​IMG]

    Yeah, I actually started out with Poliwrath for this team. Dittocrow's awesome set really inspired me for this team, and I wanted to see how effective Poliwrath would be on a more stallish team. Knowing that Poliwrath needed entry hazards to function well, since the main way it would rack up damage would be Circle Throw, I needed an entry hazard user to support it. As Poliwrath is a Water-type, I immediately decided on using a Grass-type hazard user to support it. With Ferroseed and Roselia being the best choices here, I ultimately went with Roselia, since after facing Avira's stall team numerous times on the ladder, I knew that Roselia was a wonderful hazard user who would support Poliwrath nicely.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    With Roselia supplying my Spikes and possibly Toxic Spikes, I now needed a Stealth Rock user to give my team every type of entry hazard. Furthermore, I noticed that I was starting to be a bit weak to Psychic- and Flying-type Pokemon, as Roselia and Poliwrath shared those weaknesses. Of course, because I love it so much, and I happen to use it on almost all of my teams, Steelix immediately popped into my head, and it fit into the team nicely due to its massive defenses, Stealth Rock, and Roar.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Of course, now that I had my entry hazards, I needed a spinblocker to make sure that my hazards would stay on the field and they wouldn't just be spun away. This imo was especially important considering how popular Rapid Spinners were getting due to the rise of Spikestacking teams. Once again in a nod to Avira's stall team, I went with Cofagrigus, as it is by far the bulkiest spinblocker in the tier and would surely keep my entry hazards on the field.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Now, as I glanced at the team at this stage, I immediately noticed one thing; Moltres single-handedly could sweep through this team! Once again, Avira's stall team was the first thing that came to mind, and I thought I'd try RestTalk Heal Bell Lanturn, and this seemed like it would be a wonderful addition to the team, especially considering how Cofagrigus and Poliwrath would really appreciate the cleric support. I did think of using Slowking at this stage, but RestTalk Lanturn seemed too good to resist.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Since this team looked weak to OTR Cofagrigus, I decided to slap RestTalk Drapion onto the team, since it would be an amazing phazer, and a nice alternative check to Lilligant and Sceptile, who would otherwise pose an issue for this team once Roselia was gone. And with that, the team seemed complete and ready to rock!

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Yeah, the team kinda sucked. Admittedly it was really funny since almost all of my team members had Rest, which royally annoyed a bunch of people when paired alongside Lanturn's Heal Bell support (hi Texas Cloverleaf! :3), but it was dreadfully weak to Ground-type attacks, and stuff like CB Rhydon was just tearing through the team far too easily. Furthermore, entry hazards were being absolutely horrible since Rest wasn't reliable enough when entry hazards kept chipping away at my team's health. Then, Oglemi posted his stall team, and the thing that caught my eye was his use of Cryogonal. With its massive Special Defense, Levitate, Rapid Spin, and Recover, it would surely check the same Pokemon RestTalk Drapion would while providing Rapid Spin support AND checking Ground-types.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    However, Cryogonal just wasn't enough. If they predicted correctly and used Stone Edge on the switch, Cryogonal would faint and my team would be plagued by Ground-types once again. I didn't really know what I would do at this point; every member on the team looked perfect, and removing a single member would surely ruin the synergy the team had. Fortunately, I had just taken over Windsong's stall guide a few weeks prior to making this team, and I remembered that there was one spinblocker in particular who seemed like it would fit this team to a tee.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Yup, Misdreavus! Thanks to Eviolite, Misdreavus's Defense is actually quite respectable, and between Levitate and Will-O-Wisp, Misdreavus could easily take on those troublesome Ground-types who had been constantly irritating. Sure, Misdreavus lacked the sheer bulk that Cofagrigus had, but Levitate still made up for that since it ensured that Misdreavus wouldn't be worn down by Spikes and Toxic Spikes. And with that, the team actually became pretty darn solid, easily making it's way to the top 5. The last change was a bit optional honestly, but imo Lanturn wasn't quite a reliable enough check against Moltres, so I decided to change it to:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    ...because of course, I just need to use that Steelix + Slowking core lol. Really though, because I found that Misdreavus could use Heal Bell, I decided to give it to her instead, so I could free up a slot for a Pokemon who would do more than just sit there and provide cleric support. Slowking isn't really necessary, but it's a very nice addition all the same; it gives me a nice safety blanket against a variety of threats, such as Entei, Medicham, Hitmonlee, and the like, so if one of my checks to those Pokemon fall, I still have something to take them on with ease (except when it gets crit after my main check dies; that always sucks :/ ). It also gives me that necessary check against Moltres, and it spreads Toxic around the opposing team to beat opposing Slowking and the like. And with that, the team was complete!

    DittoCrow's Team Building Process (open)

    [​IMG]
    Like I said before, the team started with Misdreavus. Heal Bell is such a great support move and I knew I had to have it on my team. With immunities to both Ground- and Fighting-type moves, Misdreavus would get plenty of chances to heal the team. She would also be able to spread status and have semi-reliable recovery with Pain Split. Misdreavus would also be one Pokemon in my dual Ghost core. I had originally made her specially defensive in order to beat Cryogonal, so the other Ghost-type only had to check physical attacking Rapid Spinners. I also meant for her to check Moltres and Typhlosion, but that didn't really work out if Misdreavus was already damaged, as she was not bulky enough.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    When going through the threat list, I noticed that physically defensive Cofagrigus checked soooo many threats in RU, especially with Haze and Will-O-Wisp on its side. It completed my dual Ghost core by countering all of the spinners that Misdreavus couldn't handle. I used a set with Shadow Ball, Will-O-Wisp, Haze, and Rest with max HP/Def and a Chesto Berry. This allowed me to beat stuff like Feraligatr, Sawsbuck, Scyther, and instantly be fully healed due to Rest + Chesto Berry. Even if my Chesto Berry was used up, Cofagrigus could use Rest and be woken up by Misdreavus's Heal Bell. I also used 0 Speed IVs in order to beat opposing Cofagrigus under Trick Room. Defensive Cofagrigus is really underrated; it's definitely better at spin blocking than offensive Cofagrigus.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Of course since I had two Ghost-types, it is necessary that I had something to set up hazards. Roselia was the premier choice, as she covers many special threats in RU which allows her to set up easily. Because I originally wanted to use a balanced team, I needed another specially defensive Pokemon to complete the core. The Pokemon that Roselia failed to deal with were left for the next best special wall in the tier: none other than Cryogonal.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    It's mandatory for every balance team to have a spinner, because hazards are so prominent in RU, and I really could not go without Cryogonal on one of my teams. Plus, with Roselia, the two checked almost every special threat except for Moltres and Typhlosion. Cryogonal was also a much needed counter to OTR Cofagrigus, so I couldn't go wrong in choosing the snowflake. By this time, the team wasn't really "balanced." It had three special walls, with only Cofagrigus to take the physical hits. I needed another physical wall.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I was severely lacking support on the physical side, I was weak to Fire-types, mainly Entei, and I needed Stealth Rock. Then, I saw complete_legitimacy talking about Rhydon all the time :p. Rhydon filled the holes perfectly. It also took out troublesome Pokemon such and Mandibuzz and Clefable, as well as being able to phaze the opponent with Roar. It has a high base Attack stat, so it could help wear down the opposing team even further, as not many Pokemon can take its powerful attacks. Rhydon was a great asset to the team, but I was still weak to Pokemon such as Crawdaunt, Sawsbuck, and Bouffalant.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Tangrowth filled up all of the holes in the team. I used a SubSeed set in order to force switches, as Leech Seed + Spikes damage added up quickly. This guy helped a lot in wearing down opposing walls, and it took some pressure off of Cofagrigus because it was able to be a more reliable counter to Feraligatr and Sawsbuck. I also used Hidden Power Fighting in order to surprise Sawsbuck and Bouffalant, and it also helped a lot against Ferroseed and Aggron. I didn't want to use Focus Blast, as it has low PP and terrible accuracy. I thought I was finished at this point, but no team can be perfect. The team looked perfect on paper, but in reality I was weak to certain combinations of Pokemon such as Aggron and Moltres. Aggron wore down Rhydon and Tangrowth, and Moltres defeated Misdreavus with ease. In fact, Life Orb Moltres absolutely plowed through my team. I needed to make some major changes.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Slowking patched up my Fire-type weakness perfectly; it was the best counter to Moltres and Typhlosion and could take most of Entei's hits. It was also a great help when dealing with Cryogonal, because that too could beat Misdreavus if I couldn't get the Pain Split off. It also resisted the Fighting-type attacks that I used Cofagrigus to take, and was even better at dealing with Fighting-types due to Psyshock. I removed Cofagrigus because Tangrowth could take most of the stuff Cofagrigus was used for, but now I had more trouble against physical spinners. Thus, I changed Misdreavus to a physically defensive set, one that SilentVerse recommended.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    After talking to SilentVerse, he convinced me to go with Steelix. Steelix is a bro, and I only really used Rhydon because I needed its power for Mandibuzz and Clefable. Now that I had Slowking to take on Entei, Rhydon was no longer needed. Steelix helped a lot with resistances due to its Ground / Steel typing, and I was no longer weak to threats such as Aggron and Druddigon. Leftovers, better typing, and all around awesomeness made me choose Steelix instead of Rhydon.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I think it's pretty cool that the last Pokemon I added to the team was the Pokemon that SilentVerse started with. It was SilentVerse who convinced me to use Poliwrath. Circle Throw was really good for racking up damage on the opponent through entry hazards; it was more effective at forcing switches than Tangrowth. Steelix + Poliwrath were used on my last team, so I already knew how good the combination was. Poliwrath also acted as a more reliable check to Aggron, as that could beat my team with some prediction. Poliwrath also beats Cryogonal, spread burns through Scald, and acted as a last-ditch check to Magmortar when Slowking got KOed. And with that, the team was completed!


    [​IMG]
    Steelix (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Gyro Ball
    - Earthquake
    - Roar

    Steelix's massive bulk, access to Stealth Rock, and Steel typing are what make this guy worth a spot on this team. Steelix, in my opinion, is probably the most reliable Stealth Rock user in the tier, as his great Defense lets him consistently switch into most physical attackers to set up the hazard. However, Steelix also walls numerous lethal threats for this team, such as Aggron, Aerodactyl, Archeops, Bouffalant, Crustle, Drapion, Druddigon, Galvantula, Klinklang, Rotom, Scolipede, Scyther, and Uxie. However, it's not this team's primary physical wall since it's lack of reliable recovery makes it so much easier to wear this guy down than Poliwrath. Still, the fact that it acts as a nice secondary check to those Pokemon, and can tank powerful hits such as Archeops's Flying Gem-boosted Arcrobatics, which the rest of the team cannot handle, makes it a welcome addition to the team. Roar also lets it beat the Substitute abusing Pokemon that Poliwrath is unable to phaze out with Circle Throw, and it just helps this team take advantage of the entry hazards it and Roselia set up.

    Steelix sets up Stealth Rock to complement Roselia's Spikes in wearing down the opposing team. Misdreavus prevents those hazards from being spun away, and can burn certain troublesome Pokemon to make it easier for Steelix to deal with them, and Misdreavus is immune to the Ground- and Fighting-type attacks that hit Steelix super effectively. Slowking laughs at specially offensive Fire-types that can try to switch in on Steelix, while Poliwrath can take on some physical threats, which makes it so that Steelix doesn't have to wall every physical threat for the team. Steelix also defeats Rock-types who enjoy switching into Cryogonal.

    Every team needs a Stealth Rock user, and Steelix is one of the most reliable Stealth Rock users out there. With Ground / Steel typing, Steelix has a ton of resistances which give it time to set up or take hits for the team, especially from powerful threats such as Druddigon and Aggron. Steelix is also a great teammate because it counters Drapion, a huge threat that recently rose very high in the usage stats. Steelix works phenomenally with Poliwrath because together they check almost all physical attackers in RU, making this defensive core one of the best out there. Finally, Roar is one of the most important moves; because Steelix walls so many things, it will have a chance to Roar its counters out which will result in the opponent taking a lot of damage from the team's entry hazards. Steelix also works really well with Slowking, as they cover each other's weaknesses and take physical and special hits, respectively. Overall, Steelix is a great switch-in to many common threats and provides the important Stealth Rock that the team needs.


    Possible Changes:

    - You can slap Rest somewhere if you really want the recovery, but all of Steelix's moves are necessary for it to do its job.
    - If you change Poliwrath to Tangrowth or Drapion, consider using Rhydon in this slot as this team is otherwise weak to Entei.

    [​IMG]
    Misdreavus (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Pain Split
    - Shadow Ball
    - Heal Bell

    Misdreavus provides a few roles to this team that make it one of the most important Pokemon for this team. First of all, it acts as both a spinblocker and a cleric for this team, and since Misdreavus is the only Ghost-type in RU and NU that has access to Heal Bell, it's presence on this team is necessary, especially considering so many of this team's Pokemon are crippled by status (and Poliwrath uses the unreliable RestTalk combination). Secondly, it's my premier check to Ground- and Fighting-type Pokemon courtesy of Levitate (which also makes her immune to Spikes and Toxic Spikes) and its Ghost typing, which solidifies its spot on this team. Overall, Misdreavus checks a variety of RU Pokemon, including Accelgor, Bouffalant (the Speed EVs allow Misdreavus to always outspeed max Speed Adamant Bouffalant), Gallade, Hariyama, Hitmonchan, Hitmonlee, Medicham, Poliwrath, Primeape, Rhydon, Sandslash, Scolipede, and Scyther, and it would be very difficult to replace her without revamping a large portion of the entire team.

    Misdreavus compliments Roselia and Steelix well, as it stops Rapid Spinners such as Sandslash from removing the entry hazards that they spent the time to set up. Misdreavus does lose to Cryogonal and Swords Dance Kabutops though, but that's where Poliwrath comes in, since even though Poliwrath will cause those entry hazards to be spun away, he also makes it so that if they dare to spin on him, they will also faint when Poliwrath uses Circle Throw. Since Misdreavus lacks Leftovers recovery, Stealth Rock can also be irritating for it. Luckily, Cryogonal can Rapid Spin away those troublesome rocks, keeping Misdreavus as healthy as possible to take on those troublesome Fighting- and Ground-types and cure the team of status. Slowking also takes on the Fire-types that may attempt to switch into Will-O-Wisp, and provides a secondary check to Fighting-types to help ease the pressure on Misdreavus.

    Misdreavus is the centerpiece of the team, spinblocking and curing the team of unwanted status conditions. She also makes a great physically defensive wall, as Eviolite boosts her Defense (and Special Defense) to high levels. Being a Ghost-type with Levitate, Misdreavus provides a ton of resistances for the team, most importantly to Fighting-type moves. She rounds off the defensive core, and is one of the most useful members on the team due to Heal Bell. I cannot tell you how many times Heal Bell has saved my walls from dying to status effects! It is, however, hard to keep her alive, as Pain Split is somewhat unreliable so you need to play carefully. Still, Will-O-Wisp allows her to cripple strong physical attackers, namely Bouffalant (who, with an Adamant nature and max Speed, is outsped by one point with the given EV spread) and Fighting-types. Finally, with Heal Bell, Misdreavus can not only cure the burns and poisons that a stall team hates, but also Poliwrath's sleep which can be necessary in order to check opposing threats. I originally used a specially defensive version of Misdreavus, but the physically defensive variant checks many more threats. While Misdreavus is an important member of the team, I would probably replace her with Cofagrigus if I had another Cleric.


    Possible Changes:

    - You can run Toxic and a more specially defensive spread to beat Cryogonal one-on-one, but then you'll have huge issues with other physical attackers since Misdreavus won't be able to burn them anymore.
    - If you have an alternative Heal Bell user, such as Lanturn > Slowking, you can attempt to use Cofagrigus or Rotom over Misdreavus, but the former is much easier to wear down with entry hazards and Rotom is much frailer.

    [​IMG]
    Poliwrath (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Scald
    - Circle Throw
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    Yup, this is Dittocrow's Poliwrath set, and it's just such a pivotal member of this team. Poliwrath is a fairly underrated Pokemon at the moment, when really, it shouldn't be. It's typing is fantastic, and it's defenses allow it to take on so many mons, including Aggron, CRAWDAUNT, Drapion, Feraligatr, Klinklang, Kabutops, Rhydon, Jynx, Smeargle, Bouffalant, Aerodactyl, Crustle, and so many others. It is my main answer to those Pokemon in most cases since it, unlike Steelix, actually has recovery in the RestTalk combination, which generally allows it to stick around for quite a while, especially with Misdreavus's Heal Bell support. Poliwrath also happens to be my team's main phazer, and between burns from Scald and damage racked up by Circle Throw and entry hazards, Poliwrath becomes a vital part of this stall team.

    Poliwrath acts as this team's primary physical wall, sponging attacks from the likes of Choice Band Drapion for the rest of the team. In return, Roselia and Cryogonal take on the pesky Electric- and Grass-type Pokemon who plague Poliwrath. Roselia also supplies Spikes to make Circle Throw all the more deadly. Slowking stops those Psychic-types from crushing Poliwrath with their attacks, and can Toxic walls that Poliwrath cannot wear down with Circle Throw. Steelix sets up Stealth Rock and deals with the likes of Archeops and other such threats, who Poliwrath is unable to deal with. Steelix can also Roar out Substitute abusing Pokemon who Poliwrath cannot phaze out with Circle Throw. Misdreavus can awaken Poliwrath when he sleeps with Heal Bell, which helps him stick around for much longer.

    Poliwrath is no doubt one of the best physical walls in RU. It brings much needed resistances to Water-, Fire-, and Rock-type attacks and also checks a huge amount of both offensive and defensive threats with Scald. Scald has a huge 30% burn rate, allowing Poliwrath to cripple offensive foes such as Drapion, Kabutops, and Gallade, as well as defensive threats such as Qwilfish, Tangrowth, Dusknoir, and Spiritomb. This will also help Cryogonal to spin, as a burned Dusknoir or Spiritomb will not be doing much to Cryogonal despite its poor Defense stat. Poliwrath is another great counter to Drapion and Aggron as well as a counter to many other upcoming threats such as Feraligatr, Sandslash, and Steelix. With Circle Throw, Poliwrath not only hits certain defensive threats such as Clefable and Cryogonal, but also allows Poliwrath to phaze the opponent, racking up even more entry hazard damage. Sadly, Rest is Poliwrath's only form of recovery, but with Sleep Talk and Heal Bell from Misdreavus, Poliwrath can continue to burn and phaze the opponent!


    Possible Changes:

    - If you have issues with sun / Lilligant, run Drapion over Poliwrath, though you have to play more carefully with Steelix since you won't have a secondary check against physical attackers.
    - You could also use Tangrowth over Poliwrath for a check against most physical attackers who doesn't have to rely on Sleep Talk, but this leaves the team more vulnerable to Entei.

    [​IMG]
    Roselia (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 248 HP / 236 SDef / 24 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Giga Drain
    - Spikes
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Rest

    In my opinion, Roselia is hands down the best defensive Spiker in RU, as it single-handledly deals with threats such as Life Orb Tangrowth (the given EVs ensure that Roselia will outspeed standard offensive Tangrowth, which lets Roselia quickly dispatch it with Sludge Bomb), Life Orb Sceptile, Lilligant, Rotom-C, Rotom, Galvantula, Manectric (watch out for Overheat), Whimsicott, and various other threats which are otherwise difficult for this team to deal with, while also providing Spikes to help wear down the opposing team. Roselia actually makes those Grass-types a welcome sight on the opponent's team, since they basically give me a free layer of Spikes whenever they switch in. Furthermore, thanks to Natural Cure and Rest, Roselia can actually set up on a ton of defensive Pokemon, including Cofagrigus, Clefable, Lanturn, and Poliwrath, as Roselia can just set up as many Spikes until she's close to fainting, then Resting up to remove all the damage and status she's been inflicted with while she set up Spikes.

    Roselia is necessary to take on the Grass-types that can easily switch into Steelix, Poliwrath, and Slowking. These three in return take on other troublesome Pokemon for Roselia; for example, Poliwrath and Steelix wall Drapion who may attempt to set up on Roselia, while Slowking deals with specially offensive Fire-types who want to switch into Roselia. Steelix also can set up Stealth Rock to accompany the Spikes that Roselia sets up. Misdreavus prevents Rapid Spinners from removing the entry hazards she works so hard to set up, while Cryogonal itself can Rapid Spin to those pesky entry hazards that chip away at Roselia's health, and gives me a secondary answer to those Grass-types so that I don't have to use Roselia for everything.

    You've already seen the best physical walls in RU, so here's one of the best special walls in RU! Grass / Poison typing is a great typing which gives Roselia many important resistances to Water-, Fighting-, and Grass-type attacks, and with Eviolite, she will be taking almost nothing from non-super effective special attacks. I chose Roselia because as I was going through the threat list, I noticed that she checked nearly half of the special attackers in the tier! She also brought Spikes to the table, one of the most appreciated moves on a stall team. With Giga Drain, Roselia can take on strong Water-types such as Omastar and Poliwrath, and with Sludge Bomb, she can annihilate powerful Grass-types such as Sceptile, Lilligant, and Tangrowth and do it all over again with the wonderful combination of Rest and Natural Cure. Roselia is no doubt one of the best special walls in the tier and maybe even one of the best Spikes users!


    Possible Changes:

    - You can run Toxic Spikes over one of her coverage moves I guess, but note that you'll be vulnerable to a ton of threats if you do so, since Roselia won't be able to hit them hard enough.
    - Also, if opposing Tangrowth start to speedcreep her, fight the power and speed creep back. Roselia needs to outspeed Tangrowth, or she's just going to keep getting put to sleep and eventually get worn down by entry hazards.

    [​IMG]
    Slowking (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 248 HP / 144 Def / 116 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Toxic
    - Slack Off
    - Scald
    - Psyshock

    Slowking is this team's safety net. While he isn't REALLY necessary to deal with anything in particular, bar Moltres and other specially offensive Fire-types, he's useful simply because he gives this team a secondary check to a ton of Pokemon. Entei, Klinklang, Hitmonchan, Hitmonlee, Moltres, Medicham, Typhlosion, Magmortar, opposing Slowking, Hariyama, Mesprit, Omastar, and so many other Pokemon can be dealt with by Slowking if necessary, which makes things a lot easier on my primary counters to those Pokemon. Slowking is also this team's sole user of Toxic, which allows me to beat certain walls, such as opposing Slowking and Tangrowth, much more easily. Slowking also makes prediction much easier thanks to Regnerator, as it basically means that I can toss it into most attacks if I don't know what the opponent is going to do, watch as Slowking lives the hit, then respond accordingly.

    Slowking deals with Moltres, who can switch into all the other Pokemon on this team with ease, and proceed to stall it out with Toxic. In return, Steelix and Poliwrath take on those pesky Pursuit-trappers that give Slowking a hard time; Steelix also sets up Stealth Rock to make Moltres even less of an issue. Roselia smashes those Grass-types that like to switch into Slowking, while Cryogonal keeps the field clean of hazards so that Slowking can consistently defeat Moltres. Misdreavus provides cleric support to cure Toxic that might be inflicted on Slowking by the likes of Entei.

    Slowking is virtually necessary for any team that doesn't want to get swept by Moltres or Typhlosion. I noticed how Cryogonal and Roselia together checked almost every special attacker in RU, but they shared a common weakness to Fire-type moves, and Poliwrath was too weak on the special side to watch over them. Then I noticed Slowking, who took care of the final weaknesses and provided great team support. With reliable recovery in Slack Off as well as the Regenerator ability, Slowking can take many hits from even physical attackers such as Entei and shrug them off with ease. It is also one of the best counters to Choice Specs Slowking, another huge threat on the rise. With Toxic, my own Slowking can wear down these threats making it hard for the opponent to recover due to hazards and status conditions. Scald is the obligatory STAB move, preventing threats such as Rhydon and Aggron from switching in safely. Psyshock disposes of strong special walls such as Roselia and Cryogonal by taking advantage of their weaker Defense stat; this helps to prevent hazards and keep my hazards on the field. Psyshock is also great for dealing with Calm Mind Entei and Fighting-types such as Hitmonchan. Slowking is becoming less and less useful, especially due to the new threats that BW2 brought, but he is still a great teammate and I couldn't ask for more!


    Possible Changes:

    - If you're fed up with Magmortar, use RestTalk Lanturn over Slowking. RestTalk Lanturn still counters specially offensive Fire-types, while being a full-stop to Magmortar, and can also provide Heal Bell support. However, it doesn't do much else, so stick with Slowking unless you hate Magmortar with a passion.

    [​IMG]
    Cryogonal @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 168 Def / 92 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Rapid Spin
    - Recover
    - Ice Beam
    - Haze

    Honestly, Cryogonal is probably my favorite Pokemon in the current metagame. It's a fabulous check against the omnipresent OTR Cofagrigus, and unlike stuff like Himonchan, Cryogonal can actually beat it one-on-one, which ensures that it can Rapid Spin away the troublesome entry hazards that usually accompany OTR Cofagrigus. It's also lovely that Cryogonal has Levitate, as it means that it doesn't get worn down by Spikes, as opposing entry hazards can be fairly troublesome for this team, so it would suck if my Rapid Spinner were to get worn down by them! Cryogonal also serves as my back-up check to most specially offensive mons, such as Manectric, Rotom, Sceptile, Tangrowth, SubCM Uxie (non-Psyshock variants), Rotom-C, and a bunch of other mons, though because most of these Pokemon have a way to hit Cryogonal hard, it's not this team's premier special wall unless Roselia has gone down (not to mention that Pursuit trappers are awful for it, though my EV spread helps alleviate that as it ensures that Cryogonal will always survive Choice Band Spiritomb's Pursuit if Cryogonal switches). Still, Cryogonal's ability to act as a secondary check against most special attackers while spinning away hazards is something that's irreplaceable for this team.

    Cryogonal is an easy switch in for Pokemon like Entei and Aggron, as Ice Beam does pitiful damage to them. Poliwrath thus shares excellent synergy with Cryogonal, as it takes on those two troublesome Pokemon with ease. Similarly, Misdreavus and Slowking beat the Fighting-types that might try to switch into Cryogonal, and they can status opponents to help Cryogonal stall out Pokemon such as Cofagrigus, and Misdreavus can sometimes manage to burn Drapion and Spiritomb, which makes it makes life much easier for Cryogonal, as it no longer has to fear Pursuit from them. Roselia and Steelix can also set up entry hazards to wear down opposing spinblockers, making it easier for Cryogonal to successfully Rapid Spin.

    Since I first used Cryogonal, it was love at first sight. Cryogonal is no doubt the best spinner in RU. People have started noticing the rise of Cryogonal, so they try to counter it with spinblockers such as Spiritomb. However, they fail to realize that there are some obvious ways of getting around that, such as changing Cryogonal's EV spread. With 248 HP / 168 Def / 92 SDef, Cryogonal will always survive Choice Band Spiritomb's Sucker Punch or Pursuit upon switching out. It will also take hits such as Scyther's U-turn or Feraligatr's Aqua Jet, allowing for a free turn to spin. This allows it to beat nearly all Ghost-types one-on-one except for Dusknoir, who will usually be burned thanks to Poliwrath. It's also great that Cryogonal beats the most common Ghost-type and offensive threat, Cofagrigus, with Haze. Haze is also really useful against Pokemon such as Magneton with Charge Beam, Sigilyph, Lilligant, Jynx, and Calm Mind Mesprit. However, I will usually have to switch Roselia into threats such as Manectric or Lilligant first because Cryogonal is a bit weaker on the special side with this EV spread. Cryogonal can still check these threats if Roselia is down, but with less success due to its Stealth Rock weakness. Then again, Levitate gives Cryogonal immunity to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, a great asset for any spinner. Cryogonal is definitely irreplaceable, as no other spinner in RU can reliably spin and counter so many threats.


    Possible Changes:

    - Make the EV spread 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe Calm if you want to take on Manectric etc more reliably, but this will make Cryogonal very vulnerable to Pursuit from Drapion and Spiritomb.
    - Uhh, I guess you could use Toxic over Haze if you want something other than Slowking to spread it around, but Haze is needed to reliably counter OTR Cofagrigus, so eh.

    Conclusion:


    Hopefully, this RMT has proven to you guys that stall is in fact very viable in RU, and has inspired some of you to try it out in BW2. While RU does have a huge amount of threats to cover, this doesn't mean that stall is unviable! RU also happens to boast wonderful entry hazard users, Rapid Spinners, and a nice selection of walls to make covering all those threats in RU a reality. I hope you enjoyed the RMT, and feel free to try it out to see just what stall is capable of in RU!

    This team is one of the best teams I've ever built. It has two counters/checks to almost every threat in RU, leaving very few opportunities for opposing Pokemon to sweep. This team really fits my playstyle, as I love to have near-perfect teams :D. Who doesn't? Unfortunately, with BW2 around the corner and a rise in stallbreakers (coughmagmortarcough), this team is becoming less and less effective. I still think that stall can be effective, even with all of the offensive teams around. You just need to be creative with the Pokemon and sets! I'm really glad I got to work on the team with SilentVerse, it was fun!


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Importable (open)
    Steelix (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Gyro Ball
    - Earthquake
    - Roar

    Misdreavus (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 18 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Pain Split
    - Shadow Ball
    - Heal Bell

    Poliwrath (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Scald
    - Circle Throw
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    Roselia (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 240 HP / 232 SDef / 38 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Giga Drain
    - Spikes
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Rest

    Slowking (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 248 HP / 144 Def / 116 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Toxic
    - Slack Off
    - Scald
    - Psyshock

    Cryogonal @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 168 Def / 92 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Rapid Spin
    - Recover
    - Ice Beam
    - Haze
    Level 51 likes this.
  2. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,457
    YES best banner ever by Keiran!

    [​IMG]
    Level 51 likes this.
  3. complete legitimacy

    complete legitimacy Honko's Happy Funtime With Men
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,093
    Great RMT. Defining stall team, although it is Magmortar weak. I played against SilentVerse with this team and lost mainly because of Poliwrath, since how was I supposed to know it could take a Thunderbolt. But yeah, that Cryogonal spread is great, shoutouts are cool, and fuck Tangrowth.
  4. Molk

    Molk tfw zoroark
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    RU Leader

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,244
    I remember fighting this team on the ladder a lot, and i mean a LOT, i actually usually won no matter who was using the team. The team is very solid at taking on every offensive threat by themselves, but i was able to break down the team by using a combination of good prediction and using the mighty METANG to spinblock cryogonal.


    In all seriousness though, the main problem i see with this team is the lack of wish support, sure misdreavus provides heal bell support, and 5-6 of your mons have recovery of SOME sort, but im concerned about the fact that steelix lacks any kind of recovery outside of leftovers. I can totally see a player wearing down/trapping and killing your steelix and running through your team with a physical sweeper that can beat poliwrath like swellow or some shit.

    I would recommend putting some way for steelix to recover in there, whether it be rest or replacing one of the mons on your team for a mon that can fill the same niche but provide wish support. I would recommend alomomola but alomomola is infinitely bad and should rarely be considered for use, i also see a little weakness to lilligant, but cryogonal could cover that to an extent. If you are REALLY paranoid about lilligant you could use munchlax>slowking (it will counter hurricane moltres, and nidoqueen when it drops) as well. But like alomomola, munchlax is pretty bad imo and you should only use it if you are REALLY desperate for a check :/.

    anyways, great team and its the best posted RU stall team ive ever seen (come back Avira D:)

    edit: bs forgot rose
  5. Double01

    Double01 Hate it or love it the under dog's on top

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2011
    Messages:
    775
    Such a fantastic stall team and counters/checks a ton of things. I have played this team so many times whether it be on the ladder or during RU tournaments. The best way I found beating this team was setting up hazards and wearing down roselia enough so Lilligant can come in for the sweep.

    This is definitely one of the best RU BW stall teams and it's going to be extremely hard to make a stall team because of threats like offensive Nidoqueen and SubRoost Moltres. And I know how much u hate Munchlax but it could serve this team well being handle all the new BW2 special attackers.

    Overall, it is definitely a fantastic team that I have to play my absolute best to beat. Luvdisc'd ^.^
  6. SilentVerse

    SilentVerse Into the New World
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Past SPL Winner
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2009
    Messages:
    902
    @complete legitimacy: Yeah, Magmortar is admittedly a bit of a problem (why did you have to popularize it :< ). iirc DittoCrow tried using Grumpig and Lanturn to check it, so those might be used over Slowking if Magmortar becomes even more popular, though Slowking just has so much more overall use, so I'm not really sure if I'd want to use them.

    @Molk: I've always wanted to stick Wish support somewhere on this team, but I just have no idea what to replace. I did try Alomomola over Poliwrath for a short time, but it was just set up bait most of the time. Honestly, I don't really think that Wish is really necessary for this team though, since like you said, almost everything has recovery (except for Steelix, but as long as I play him carefully he'll last throughout the match), and there's not many Wish users who would actually fit into the team well.

    @Double01: Ehhh, I really don't like Munchlax. It's just way too easy to wear down, and I feel that there's probably something better who can actually support the team. And yeah, Lilligant + hazards is dumb :< .

    Thanks for the rates everyone!
  7. Hot N Cold

    Hot N Cold PLUTO
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,171
    This is a great stall RU, i used this team very similar.

    My only suggestion is a bit different evs spread in Steelix: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SDef , since the team is weak to Sceptile SD acrobatics, with this evs spread never is 2HKO by EQ with +2 (without hazards).

    Very weak against Exeggutor with Leaf Storm and Psychock but fortunately isn't common.

    Great job guys !
  8. SilentVerse

    SilentVerse Into the New World
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Past SPL Winner
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2009
    Messages:
    902
    Thanks Hot N Cold! That Steelix spread does look really interesting; while Swords Dance Sceptile hasn't been that common recently, I'll admit that it can be a bit of a threat if they use Earthquake instead of Brick Break. I do like the extra Special Defense that our current spread gives us though, since it helps Steelix deal with stuff like Rotom more easily, but your spread is worth a try.

    And yeah, Eggy is a problem even though it's really uncommon. Fitting Drapion on the team somewhere would probably be the best solution to it, but like a lot of other possible changes we could make, I have no idea what to replace :/.
  9. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,457
    @Hot N Cold: Yeah SD Sceptile with EQ is a big threat. Luckily, Steelix does around 75-80% with Gyro Ball, so if I see Sceptile in the team preview I'll usually try to get up SR and 1 layer of Spikes so it OHKOes. Yes, Steelix has no recovery, but Poliwrath can take most of the threats that Steelix is used for, so we can usually still manage if Steelix is down. Anyways there aren't many weaknesses besides Magmortar. The rest of the weaknesses are stuff like the Exeggutor you posted and SunnyBeam Typhlosion. Thanks for the rate!
  10. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn the hidden heart of the ocean
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2012
    Messages:
    2,832
    Is it just me, or is this team flat out swept by expert belt Magmortar? Edit: ok 2645374 people already said that sorry

    Bleh, whatever. I also note you are very weak to stall with a pursuit user, as a strong pursuit from a bunch of stuff can ko Misdreavus, Cryogonal, and leave you very susceptible to hazards.

    Solid team otherwise. Congrats on your peak.
  11. SilentVerse

    SilentVerse Into the New World
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Past SPL Winner
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2009
    Messages:
    902
    Ehh, remember, the Magmortar user has to predict pretty well since I can keep pivoting Slowking out to Misdreavus or something to take Thunderbolts, and if they predict incorrectly and Fire Blast Slowking, I can quickly Scald Magmortar, which has a good chance to OHKO if one layer of Spikes and Stealth Rock is on the field. It's definitely still a huge problem, but the team won't get completely swept by it as long as we play correctly. The rise of Magmortar is actually one of the reasons we RMT'd this team; Magmortar was almost never used when we made this team, but now it's everywhere to make this team less effective.

    Pursuit users are annoying, but it's not really as awful as it seems. Thanks to Cryogonal's EV spread, it actually beats Choice Band Spiritomb if it switches into Cryogonal's Ice Beam and Stealth Rock is on the field. Misdreavus isn't too bad either; she's very bulky physically, and most of the time, I can keep her in on stuff like Drapion if she hasn't taken too much prior damage, and then burn them as they try to Pursuit.

    I guess switching to Lanturn might help alleviate both of those problems, and since Magmortar is becoming increasingly common, I guess I'll try it out again. Thanks for the rate!
  12. Bigblue

    Bigblue

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2011
    Messages:
    140
    Oh God how much I hate this team. I have faced it around 10 times and each time I can never break your amazing wall combo except for that one time I had the expert belt electivire which scored a crit wildcharge on the Misdreavus and the first time you played my team and you didn't realize my Sceptile was SD Grass Gem. Aside from that this team is amazing and is really hard to break unless you are running direct counters to it like Magmortar and Pursuit trappers for Misdreavus and Cryogonal. The only suggestion I have is to put rest on steelix and take out the Gyro ball as in the overall it will benefit you but you will lose a check to Aero leads but switching right into Misdreavus or Poli can fix that.(Actually reading more, this will lose the check to SD Sceptile so it would be something more to test out rather than ulitmately use)

    Note: When Skill link Cincinno and Tinted Lens Sigilyth are allowed on Smogon this team will have a hard time against them. (CB Adamant Cincinno Bullet Seed does 26.85-32.5% to steelix each turn with a high chance for a crit and without recovery steelix will easily be worn down. Which also happens to be the set I like the most, so watch out :P)
  13. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,457
    Removing Gyro Ball makes Earthquake the only attack, so then Steelix gets walled by a lot of things with Levitate and such. Like I said, Steelix needs all four of its moves and doesn't really need Rest because Poliwrath takes a lot of hits for Steelix. Steelix is only used for threats such as Druddigon, Drapion, Aggron, etc because Earthquake does a good amount to them. And yeah this team won't really be viable in the BW2 metagame :(

    Thanks for the rates guys!
  14. SilentVerse

    SilentVerse Into the New World
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Past SPL Winner
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2009
    Messages:
    902
    Ehh, I kinda have to disagree that this team won't be viable in BW2. As long as we replace Slowking with Lanturn, we should cover most of the new threats; Nidoqueen is checked by Cryogonal, Escavalier is walled by Steelix, Imposter Ditto doesn't do much against this team, etc. Actually, I might try it out a bit sometime once things have settled down again to see if it still works. I guess we'll just have to see!

    (also @Bigblue: Misdreavus still checks Cinccino and Slowking still checks Sigilyph ;p)
  15. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,294
    Awesome team guys! Just be carefull of Bulky SD Lum Gallade that sweeps through this team at +2 and you will be fine :D

    One little thing you could do is speed creep a bit with Misdreavous. This way you will outspeed any Gallade that runs 210 Speed (but not mine ;D) and you can try to burn it twice with WoW (~55% chance i think), or 2hko with Shadow Ball which does 40.97 - 49.54%, a 2hko after Spikes 78.13% of the time, and a sure 2hko after SR and Spikes.

    Offensive SD Gallade is even worse for this team as nothing at all is able to stop it at +2. At least almost everything in your team can prevent him from SDing with one way or another (Steelix has Roar, Cryo has Haze, Slowking has Toxic, Poliwrath has Circle Throw, Misdreavous has WoW), except from Roselia, which you should never let in for more than one turn, but you will still be losing 1 poke every time he comes in.
  16. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,457
    Thanks! Yeah SD Gallade is one of the biggest threats, especially with Lum Berry. We have to hope that the opponent does something stupid and switches it into Slowking's Scald xD. Poliwrath can live Close Combat at full health, but Zen Headbutt Gallade certainly destroys it x.x. It's hard to replace something on this team without opening up bigger holes. I guess I'll try speed creeping with Misdreavus then!

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)