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Freeze All (Peaked #6)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Milos, Feb 2, 2013.

  1. Milos

    Milos

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    361
    FREEZE ALL


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    (i'm hardknock)

    Hello Smogon. I'd like to share with you all one of my most successful teams, revolving around the core of Sub+Roost Kyurem and Toxic Spikes. When I first saw this core, I instantly fell in love with it. However, I was skeptical if Toxic Spikes were really viable in OU. With all the Steel-types, Levitate Pokemon and most importantly Tentacruel/Amoonguss/Toxicroak, using Toxic Spikes effectively was gunna be a challenge. Fortunately, Kyurem defeats all of the above Poison-types one on one, as well as denting Steels with Earth Power or Ice Beam in the case of Skarmory. The first variation of the team peaked at #21, under the original alt "freeze all".
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
    This version of the team utilized Jellicent in the spot where Latias is now, to spinblock and stop Keldeo. However, it left my team wide open for Breloom or Thunderus-T to run through it. By changing Jellicent to Latias I lost the ability to spinblock but I was left with a way to check Thunderus-T, Breloom, and most importantly, still check Keldeo. I switched Choice Scarf Politoed for a bulkier version with Leftovers, as well as removing the Speed EVs from Landorus-T to buff his Defense. The last change I made was remove Protect from Ferrothorn to replace it with Thunder Wave, giving me a way to slow down Lati@s so Kyurem can handle them.

    Team Building Process
    Show Hide
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I started off with the core of Kyurem and Tentacruel. Tentacuel resists Fighting and Steel, the two types that threaten Kyurem, and it could also set up Toxic Spikes AND spin away Stealth Rock. It was the perfect partner. I noticed however, that they got rocked by Breloom and Terrakion, among other things, so I added Landorus-T to help eliminate these threats, weakening them through Intimidate and in the case of Terrakion, KO'ing it.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I noticed my team had nothing to take on Latios, or any Dragon for that matter. At one point in time, I had Celebi and Jirachi on this team. Jirachi for the Dragons and Celebi to absorb Electric and Water attacks. Then I thought to myself: why not combine them? Ferrothorn was the perfect addition to the team, providing Spikes support, Leech Seed to annoy the opponent, and giving me handy resistances to boosted Hydro Pumps/Thunders/Draco Meteors.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    In the first version I made of this team, SubDisable Gengar took this spot. I figured that with Toxic Spikes it would be very annoying to take down. However, his lack of bulk on a team like this meant Gengar didn't often stick around for very long. I switched over to Jellicent but that only made my Thunderus-T weakness bigger. Latias was the perfect fit.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    The last Pokemon added to the team, the one we all love and hate, Politoed. It complimented my team perfectly: it cut down Ferrothorn's Fire weakness, it provided Rain Dish recovery for Tentacruel, and gave Kyurem a pseudo-resistance to Fire, meaning that even Heatran couldn't break through its substitutes. Moreover, it helped to eliminate opposing weather inducers, ideal since Kyurem prefers rain over any other weather.


    In Depth Analysis:

    *Changes in red*

    [​IMG]
    Politoed @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 SDef / 32 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SpD,-Atk)

    -Scald
    -Toxic
    -Psychic
    -Perish Song

    Politoed is often asked to fulfill one role and one role only: set up rain and maintain it. If I am facing sun or sand teams, I generally try to keep Politoed alive as long as possible, and once the opposing weather inducer has died, Politoed is usually the first one to get sac'd. Originally, this was a Choice Scarf Politoed. I noticed my team lacked speed and thought it would be a good way to revenge kill any Dragonites that set up or get a surprise KO on Gengar or Toxicroak with Psychic. However, I noticed Politoed had no staying power. He was usually the first one to get KO'd in my matches, whether I liked it or not. Using a bulkier spread, Politoed is able to switch in on a wider variety of threats, things like Scarf Tyranitar and random Iron Heads from Jirachi aimed at Kyurem. I'm using Surf > Scald because I don't want random things that should be getting poisoned to get burned instead. Politoed lures in Rotom-W like no other Pokemon, so hitting it on the switch-in with Toxic is always nice, considering Rotom-W is one of the only bulky Water-types that isn't affected by Toxic Spikes. Psychic has remained on the set since it had a scarf, mainly to prevent Toxicroak from setting up on me. The 40 SpA EVs ensure I do at least 96%, meaning it will die from Psychic + SR practically every time. Finally, I noticed my team had absolutely NO way to deal with Baton Pass. I was easily 6-0'd by them. Perish Song solves this issue. It also forces certain Pokemon out, such as Reuniclus, and it allows me to KO any last Pokemon that is attempting to set up (if Politoed is even alive by then). Not much else to say about Politoed, it has one job and it does it well.


    [​IMG]
    Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP/ 212 Def/ 44 Atk
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)

    -Stealth Rock
    -Earthquake
    -Stone Edge
    -U-turn

    Landorus-T is such a great Pokemon. It counters practically every physical attacker in OU (unless they are Water/Ice-types) and makes dealing with physical threats a lot easier for the rest of the team. It is my #1 answer to stuff like SD/Choice Band Terrakion/Breloom/Scizor/Garchomp and Dragonite, halving the damage they produce as well as being able to hit most of them for big damage off that 145 base Attack stat. It is one of two Pokemon on my team immune to sand damage, so against sand teams I make sure to keep Lando alive. It sets up the always-necessary Stealth Rocks as well as keeping momentum with U-turn on predicted switches to Rotom-W or other bulky Water-types that Kyurem loves to set up on. Since I only have one Steel-type on this team, dealing with physical Dragons such as Dragonite or Garchomp becomes infinitely easier when I can Intimidate them and let Ferrothorn tank their Outrages. Having an Electric immunity is always a boon to stop Volt-Turn strategies and make sure I always keep the momentum. Having Ferrothorn use Leech Seed as a Fighting-type switches in lets Lando-T switch in, cut the opponent's Attack, and regain HP with Leech Seed. Landorus-T is also my best answer against SubCM Jirachi without Water Pulse, who could otherwise threaten the rest of my team. It has good synergy with the rest of my team since I have at least 3 Water resists and 2 Ice resists. All in all, an integral part of the team.


    [​IMG]
    Tentacruel @ Leftovers
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 248 HP/ 240 Def/ 20 Spe
    Bold (+Def, -Atk)

    -Scald
    -Rapid Spin
    -Toxic Spikes
    -Protect

    Tentacruel, part 1 of my destructive combination. Its main job is to set up the all-important Toxic Spikes, which are key in softening up the opponent's team. If I see that it is a more offensive team (without a Poison-type) I usually set up no more than one layer, since losing 12% of their HP every turn provides more useful than gradually building up poison damage. Against bulkier teams, I aim to eliminate whatever Rapid Spinner they may have (Starmie/Tentacruel/Donphan eliminated by Kyurem, Forretress eliminated by Tentacruel) and of course, KO the opposing Poison-type. More often than not, the task is to KO the spinner, which becomes incredibly easy since Kyurem manhandles all of the above. Once they are gone, Toxic Spikes go up and eventually their team goes down. Simple as that. Aside from spinning away hazards and setting my own, Tentacruel provides a valuable check to Scizor, and a check to Keldeo in case Latias is unable to sponge its attacks in fear of Tyranitar. I went with Protect > Substitute because having a free turn is really useful for Tentacruel imo, it allows me to see what move the choice-locked pokemon is about to use, grants me free recovery, and in some cases, puts Tentacruel out of KO range from the opposing mon. You may be wondering why I chose Scald on Tentacruel when I didn't use it on Politoed, although they are similar Pokemon. This is because Tentacruel always attracts other Tentacruel to soak up my Toxic Spikes, and burning them with Scald negates their Rain Dish recovery and makes it easier for my team to deal with it. It also has the chance to burn Rotom-W on the switch-in, provided Politoed has not poisoned it already.


    [​IMG]
    Kyurem @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 52 HP/ 220 SpA/ 236 Spe
    Modest (+SpA, -Atk)

    -Substitute
    -Ice Beam
    -Earth Power
    -Roost

    Kyurem, part 2 of the destructive combination, the MVP of the team, and the reason the team was created in the first place. Kyurem is such an underrated threat in today's metagame that most teams don't really prepare for it. They brush this guy off, and assume that because their Lati@s outspeeds it, they will be safe, or that because their Scizor or Breloom can KO it with priority, they don't need to worry. Well, those people don't take into account that all it takes for Kyurem to beat them is getting a Substitute up. Kyurem takes advantage of many common Pokemon in today's metagame. For example, practically every bulky Water or Grass-type can be defeated by this guy once they are poisoned. Every single one of these Pokemon also grant Kyurem a free Substitute. That means that if Kyurem is facing a Politoed or Starmie or Tentacruel or Celebi or Rotom-W, Kyurem will get a Substitute up, while they sit there trying to break your Substitute with puny Scalds or Volt Switches. They bring in their specially defensive Jirachi, only to be 3HKO'd (2HKO with some Spikes down). They bring in Scizor, to break your Substitute with Bullet Punch, but here's the thing: Scizor will more often than not be taking Spikes + SR damage, as well as an Earth Power which does ~40%. Then it is forced out by either Tentacruel or Landorus-T, which lures their bulky Water-types back in, only to have the process begin all over again, until Scizor is dead. Once Toxic Spikes are set down, Kyurem even has the power to defeat Blissey/Chansey, not even having its Substitutes broken by Seismic Toss. In the rain it can freely set up on Heatran unless it has Roar. The only things needed for this Pokemon to work to its fullest potential is rapid spin support and entry hazards, which I happen to have. Sometimes I look at the opponent's team and think: "OK, well Kyurem beats 4 out of his 6 Pokemon, let's get to work" or "Kyurem sweeps his entire team once x is weakened and he gets a sub up on y". Do not underestimate this Pokemon.


    [​IMG]
    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP/ 68 Def/ 168 SpD
    Sassy Nature (+SpD, -Spe)

    -Spikes
    -Leech Seed
    -Gyro Ball
    -Thunder Wave

    You've probably noticed by now, Ferrothorn is my only Steel-type. It's my only line of defense against Dragonite and Garchomp Outrages as well as Draco Meteors from the likes of Lati@s. Despite this, he does his job well almost every time. Ferrothorn has an important role on this team, providing Spikes to complete my trifecta of hazards as well as healing itself and the team through Leech Seed. I opted with a more specially defensive set as opposed to the standard because I need Ferrothorn to take on rain boosted Hydro Pumps as well as Specs Draco Meteors from Latios. Speaking of Latios, it was a real pain for this team to face before I had Thunder Wave. Now if he tries to set up Calm Mind or thinks about using Recover in the face of Ferro, he gets paralyzed and becomes prey for Kyurem later in the match. Thunder Wave also helps me to slow down things like Gengar or Tentacruel if I catch them on the switch, allowing me to KO Gengar with Latias without risking a speed tie and Landorus-T to hit Tentacruel with an Earthquake before it hits me with Scald. Ferrothorn is very useful to wear down physical attackers with Iron Barbs, such as Scizor using Bullet Punch or Garchomp using Dragon Claw. It provides me with a safer option against Rotom-W, because I generally don't mind getting hit with a Will-o-wisp.


    [​IMG]
    Latias @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Spe/ 6 SpD
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)

    -Calm Mind
    -Dragon Pulse
    -Roar
    -Recover

    I was unsure of what kind of Latias to use for a while. I originally had the LO tank but I found that she often had to switch out because of the SpA drop from Draco Meteor. I tested a couple of different sets and eventually settled on a Calm Mind sweeper, which was the perfect fit. She provides me with insurance against Keldeo/Breloom and even Terrakion in the sand, as well as providing me with a late game sweeper, which I did not have before. She also checks sun teams, and makes sure I never get swept by Venusaur as long as she's alive. The EVs are kinda random, I put 252 into Speed so that Latias at least forces the speed tie, dumped 180 EVs into Special Attack to ensure I do upwards of 75% on average to Terrakion and Keldeo, and dumped the rest into HP. If anyone has a better EV spread let me know... Anyway, Latias usually rears its head into the battlefield in the later stages of the game, when things have been severely weakened or when the Steel-types are gone. Latias is my only way of defeating key threats such as CM Reuniclus, as well as KOing Lati@s or Dragonite once they've been paralyzed. She provides a solid check to Thunderus, who is annoying to face when I don't know the entire set. She also makes sure that Poison-types can't switch in with impunity to absorb my Toxic Spikes. Latias has bailed me out of many situations where she was my last Pokemon remaining, managed to set up a Calm Mind, and swept the opponent's team.


    Threat List
    Show Hide
    Standard OU Offensive Threats

    [​IMG] Tyranitar:
    • Choice Band - landorus-t takes any of its moves with intimidate, ferrothorn can switch in on stone edge.
    • Choice Scarf - same as above, except politoed can now switch in on it easier.
    • Dragon Dance -i've only faced this once, but landorus-t handles it very well.
    [​IMG] Rotom-W:
    • Choice Scarf / Specs -kyurem switches into any of its moves with impunity, and proceeds to set up a sub. ferrothorn can use it to set up spikes/leech seed something if it doesn't get tricked.
    • Support - latias is usually my go to for the will-o-wisp, possibly tentacruel if i can guarantee rain will be up. kyurem sets up a sub for free and volt switch does not break its substitute. hydro pump gets stalled out of pp if it decides to go 1on1 vs kyurem. ferrothorn takes any volt switch/hpump as well.
    [​IMG] Scizor:
    • Choice Band - lando-t. tentacruel switches in for free if it is using bullet punch. easiest to handle since it gets worn down due to entry hazards + u-turn.
    • Swords Dance - landorus-t. tentacruel can fish for burns with scald and politoed can smack it hard with surf.
    • Bulky Swords Dance - lando-t handles this even at +6, same as above basically
    [​IMG] Dragonite:
    • Choice Band - lando-t intimidates it first. this makes it infinitely easier to deal with. if locked into outrage, ferrothorn uses it as set up fodder, t-waves it, or KOs with gyro ball.
    • Dragon Dance - again, landorus-t. i usually lure it into using outrage in which i bring in ferrothorn to whittle it down.
    • Mixed - make sure sr is up, haven't really seen this but latias and kyurem both outspeed and KO.
    • Parashuffler - tentacruel makes sure the hazards are gone. ferrothorn handles it well.
    • Rain Abuse - ferrothorn + kyurem
    [​IMG] Politoed:
    • Choice Specs / Scarf - ferrothorn all the way. latias can switch into hydro pumps if needed.
    • 3 Attacks - same as above
    [​IMG] Heatran:
    • Standard - tentacruel spins away hazards, politoed nerfs fire attacks making kyurem set up a free sub on him. landorus-t outspeeds spD variants and KOs.
    • Choice Scarf / Specs- politoed nerfs this 100%, must watch out for the rare hp grass..
    [​IMG] Jirachi:
    • Substitute + Calm Mind / Wish + Calm Mind - thunder/psyshock or flash cannon variants are no problem for lando-t, while thunder/water pulse variants are taken care of by kyurem. wish calm mind with thunder and water pulse gets seeded by ferrothorn and then i bring kyurem in to try to tank its attacks and eventually KO.
    • Expert Belt - haven't seen this once but lando-t intimidates and KOs. similar case for kyurem.
    • Choice Scarf - lando-t intimidates the iron heads or u-turns. i prefer facing scarf variants since i can wear them down with hazards. no wish = i can hit it hard and it cant recover.
    [​IMG] Latios:
    • Life Orb / Expert Belt - ferrothorn takes most of its attacks, can even tank hp fire with rain up.
    • Choice Scarf / Specs - protect scouting with tentacruel helps vs this. ferrothorn takes any surf/psyshock/draco meteor. must make sure to keep ferro alive and well to tank repeated dm's.
    • Calm Mind - one of the reasons why i switched protect on ferro for t-wave. usually thunder wave and go to kyurem. if it has gotten more than 1 boost it may survive kyurem ice beam and KO back, meaning latias revenge kill.
    [​IMG] Reuniclus:
    • Calm Mind - huge threat. cm/shadow ball/psyshock/recover has to be forced out with perish song and if toeds gone i have to go to cm war with latias. cm/psyshock/focus blast/recover = latias. cm + 3 attacks is probably the deadliest. landorus has to smack it as hard as possible and then latias has to try to cm up against it.
    • Offensive Trick Room - basically just stall it out until trick room is up. hit it as hard as possible. smart switching required here.
    [​IMG] Haxorus:
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Band - landorus-t all the way. scarf is easier to deal with, since ferrothorn can tank its outrages and whittle its health down with leech seed and iron barbs. band hits like a truck, but i can outspeed and KO with latias if needed.
    • Dragon Dance - landorus-t to canccel out its attack boosts. latias comes in to lure the outrage and switch to ferrothorn. from there i just whittle its health down till i can KO it.
    • Double Dance - same as above
    [​IMG] Ninetales:
    • Nasty Plot - lol do people even use this? politoed switches in to change the weather and then either latias sets up on it or tentacruel hits it hard with scald. lando can also EQ it.
    • Choice Specs - same as above, but easier to handle since it cant switch moves.
    • Special Attacker - same as above, except way less powerful
    [​IMG] Conkeldurr:
    • Bulk Up - annoying to deal with, but lando-t cancels out attack boosts. ferro on the predicted ice punch to rack up iron barb damage. smart switching focused on getting lando-t to negate its boosts.
    • Flame Orb + 3 Attacks - same as above, but easier to take down because intimidate + iron barb damage on resisted hit means it dies quicker.
    [​IMG] Celebi:
    • Nasty Plot Sweeper - havent seen this too often but, kyurem survives even psychic at +2 and KOs back with ice beam.
    • Tinkerbell - thunder wave is a nasty surprise, but this set is also uncommon. kyurem takes leaf storms like its nobody's business and sets up a sub on it.
    • Choice Specs / Choice Scarf - same as above but locked into move.
    [​IMG] Terrakion:
    • Double Dance - keep terrakion alive at all costs, it takes anything it throws at it and KOs with earthquake
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Band - landorus-t is not even 2HKO'd by -1 cb intimidate.
    • Substitute + Swords Dance / Salac Berry - again, landorus-t.
    [​IMG] Gyarados:
    • Offensive / Bulky Dragon Dance - take away its atk boosts with intimidate, perish song with toad forces it out. huge threat on paper, fotunately it isnt common.
    • Choice Scarf - nothing to be worried about. tentacruel walls it/politoed walls it and lando-t takes away atk.
    [​IMG] Gengar:
    • Substitute + Disable / Pain Split - annoying to face, tentacruel can scald it to break its subs or make sure it doesnt switch in for free. latias speed ties with it and KOs with psyshock. ferrothorn gyro balls it but it gets disabled.
    [​IMG] Starmie:
    • Life Orb - ferrothorn handles anything it can throw at it. kyurem must be wary of hpump, but it can pressure stall it.
    • Rapid Spin - kyurem laughs at it.
    • Choice Specs - taken advantage of by whichever move it is locked into.
    [​IMG] Landorus:
    • Rock Polish / Swords Dance - latias can take an hp ice and KO it after prior damage. tentacruel can survive earth power at full health and KO back with scald. politoed also survives earth power and can KO. ferrothorn survives focus blast and hits it hard with gyro ball. can be problematic if team is severely weakened.
    • Choice Scarf - lando-t laughs at it, except for hp ice.
    • Special Attacker - see original rock polish above^
    [​IMG] Infernape:
    • Mixed Attacker - tentacruel laughs at it. latias with psyshock.
    • Nasty Plot / Swords Dance Booster - sameas above, politoeds rain goes a long way in nerfing it.
    • Choice Band - same as above.
    [​IMG] Volcarona:
    • Offensive Quiver Dance - big threat. lando in the rain can survive bug buzz/fire blast and KO with stone edge/earthquake.
    • Bulky Quiver Dance / Roost -same as above
    • Chesto Rest -same
    • Substitute - same
    [​IMG] Magnezone:
    • Substitute - must make sure to not let ferrothorn get trapped, as its my only steel. landorus/kyurem can smack it hard with their respective ground type attacks.
    • Choice Scarf / Specs - again, must not let ferro get trapped, easier to play around though because if it gets locked into thunderbolt lando/kyurem and even ferro get a free switch in
    [​IMG] Espeon:
    • Calm Mind - ferrothorn can paralyze it or hit it hard with gyro ball
    [​IMG]Salamence:
    • Dragon Dance - lando intimidates. when its forced to outrage ferro tanks it.
    • Mixed - sr + latias dpulse KOs it. in the rain, cant do enough to ferro with fire blast and gets KO'd by gyro ball in return. can be twaved also and killed by kyurem.
    • Defensive - most of my pokemon are special attackers which dont mind being intimidated, not a big threat
    • Choice Scarf / Band - scarf can be deadly late game but lando can intimidate it and ferro can tank its hits since it is less powerful.
    [​IMG] Hydreigon:
    • Offensive - ferro tanks draco meteor, lures in fire blast for politoed, latias outspeeds and KOs after LO damage.
    • Choice Specs / Scarf - same as above but easier to play against when locked into a move.
    • Substitute - tough to play against. usually requires me to sac a pokemon.
    • Mixed Attacker - latias outspeeds and KO, same as offensive
    [​IMG] Breloom:
    • Bulk Up - lando-t, ice beam from kyurem KOs
    • Sub Seed - lando-t, kyurem blocks seed with sub and KOs with ice beam
    • Sub Punch - lando-t walls this to hell and back
    • Sword Dance - most problematic, something takes spore (usually ferro), lando-t and latias handle the rest
    • Choice Band - lando-t
    [​IMG] Latias:
    • Calm Mind - like latios, a huge threat. unlike latios, it has better special bulk meaning kyurem may not always be able to KO it once its paralyzed. ferrothorn can go toe to toe with it using gyro ball or outright paralyze it.
    • Offensive Tank - ferrothorn
    • Choice Specs / Scarf - ferrothorn walls it, must be wary of trick though
    [​IMG] Toxicroak:
    • Swords Dance - lando-t intimidates, politoed KOs with psychic and kyurem can sub and use earth power on it.
    • Bulk Up - lando-t murders it, same with kyurem
    [​IMG] Lucario:
    • Swords Dance - lando-t. politoed can take a hit and hit it with surf.
    • Nasty Plot - latias walls it. as well as tentacruel
    [​IMG] Venusaur:
    • Special Growth - make sure the weather is rainy. latias is a good check with psyshock once something has taken sleep powder. kyurem also fears nothing from venusaur and KOs with ice beam.
    • Mixed Growth - same as above
    • SubSeed - kyurem and latias.
    [​IMG] Metagross:
    • Stealth Rock - politoed, tentacruel can fish for scalds.
    • Choice Scarf / Band - politoed/tentacruel is my best bet, depending on its move, i can play accordingly
    • Agility - politoed can hit it hard with surf. ferrothorn can leech seed it while making it take damage from iron barbs. kinda problematic on paper, never seen one though
    [​IMG] Mienshao:
    • All-Out Attacker - landorus-t to intimidate. latias KOs with psyshock.
    • Choice Scarf / Band - same as above, its usually seen u-turning, hjk goes to lando or tentacruel.
    [​IMG] Cloyster:
    • Shell Smash - politoed and tentacruel have to hit it hard in the rain.
    • Utility - not a problem, see above
    [​IMG] Mamoswine:
    • Physical Attacker - annoying to deal with, intimidate helps then switching to politoed on ice move. from there politoed forces it out with surf.
    • Focus Sash + Endeavor - haven't seen this but it will require me to have something die. not a good matchup for me
    [​IMG] Tornadus:
    • Rain Abuser - ferrothorn can paralyze it or hit it hard with gyro ball
    • Choice Specs - this thing is a nuke. will kill at least one pokemon, but once ferrothorn gets in safely, see above
    [​IMG] Abomasnow:
    • Choice Scarf - blizzard/ice shard go to politoed or tentacruel, wood hammer to kyurem/lando-t and ferro
    • SubSeed - kyurem outspeeds and sets up sub before it
    • Mixed Attacker - kyurem
    [​IMG] Alakazam:
    • Offensive Calm Mind - deadly force to be reckoned with. i can break its sash but since i have no priority it can be annoying to take down. requires me to sac a mon. i hate this guy.
    • Focus Sash - same as above but thankfully cant sweep. i hate this guy.
    [​IMG] Azumarill:
    • Choice Band - very strong pokemon, ferrothorn can take an aqua jet as well as politoed, lando-t can intimidate it on double edge or superpower, toxic spikes wear it down though
    [​IMG] Deoxys-D:
    • Fast Spiker - deo-d teams always lead with it. tentacruel leads. im naturally slower so if he decides to stay in everything will be spun away. if he switches out, no hazards. its a win win.
    [​IMG] Dugtrio:
    • Focus Sash - can only trap tentacruel, everything else kills it easily
    • Choice Band - same as above
    [​IMG] Kingdra:
    • Dragon Dance - keep ferrothorn alive AT ALL COSTS
    • Rain Dance - same as above
    • Choice Specs - same as above
    [​IMG] Kyurem:
    • Choice - ferrothorn
    • Substitute + 3 Attacks - something is going to have to die, but latias forces it out afterwards
    • Substitute + Roost - ironically im very weak to my own kyurem! lol politoed needs to perish song to force it out..
    [​IMG] Victini:
    • Choice Band / Scarf - is annoying, but politoed does well against it. lando-t can intimidate it on bolt strike or u-turn
    • Physical Attacker - same as above
    [​IMG] Stoutland:
    • Choice Band / Life Orb - keep lando-t alive and you'll be alright. change the weather with politoed and half the team can outspeed it
    [​IMG] Sharpedo:
    • Speed Boost - ferrothorn doesn't mind its attacks that much. lando-t can intimidate it and switch out to politoed or tentacruel. not a problem.
    [​IMG] Garchomp:
    • Sword Dance - lando-t takes away its boosts, latias KOs or revenge kills
    • Choice Scarf - lando-t once again, latias lures into outrages for ferro to tank
    [​IMG]Landorus-T:
    • Standard - lack of physical attackers makes it useless. kyurem destroys it.
    • Choice Scarf - ironically, my own lando-t.
    [​IMG]Thundurus-T:
    • Nasty Plot - latias
    • Agility - kyurem/latias
    • Choice Scarf - latias/kyurem/ferro can all take volt switch. lack of electric attacks means it wont be able to recover from sr switch-ins.
    [​IMG] Keldeo:
    • Substitute + Calm Mind - must get toxic spikes down asap. politoed can perish song it. latias doesn't care about its boosts and hits it with psyshock.
    • Choice Scarf / Specs - latias/tentacruel
    [​IMG] Gothitelle:
    • Calm Mind - latias can go into a cm war with it and win.
    • Choice Scarf / Specs - whatever it traps will be able to hit it once. ferrothorn hates trick.
    [​IMG] Meloetta:
    • Relic Song Mixed Attacker - kinda rare but definitely a pain to deal with. i've had an instance where relic song put lando-t to sleep first try, then ice punch froze both politoed and ferro on the first try. i ragequit and never saw this pokemon again.
    • Calm Mind + 3 Attacks / Substitute - with toxic spikes down it puts a timer on it. never faced it, but probably dangerous.
    Standard OU Defensive Threats


    [​IMG] Tyranitar:
    • Specially Defensive - must not let latias get trapped, since its usually paired with keldeo. lando-t handles it well and politoed gets a free switch in..
    [​IMG] Ferrothorn:
    • Standard - kyurem stalls it out of gyro ball pp, 3HKOs with ice beam. rocky helmet versions are a pain in the ass when i have to spin with tentacruel
    [​IMG] Politoed:
    • Defensive - kyurem gets a sub up on this everytime, must not get hit with toxic. tentacruel also uses it to set up toxic spikes
    [​IMG] Gliscor:
    • Swords Dance - lando-t. kyurem rapes it.
    • Substitute + Protect - kyurem also rapes this once behind a sub.
    • AcroBat - see above.
    • Defensive - see above
    [​IMG] Heatran:
    • Specially Defensive - lando-t all the way. kyurem 2HKOs it with earth power. politoed and tentacruel.
    [​IMG] Jirachi:
    • Specially Defensive - kyurem hits it with earth power. lando-t also fucks it up
    [​IMG] Skarmory:
    • Physically Defensive Spiker - kyurem rips it to shreds, politoed and tentacruel hit it hard, tenta spins away its hazards
    • Specially Defensive Spiker - don't really have a way to hit this hard enough.. fish for scald burn with tenta while spinning away its hazards and take it from there
    [​IMG] Ninetales:
    • Specially Defensive - politoed changes weather and smacks it with surf/ lando-t KOs with earthquake
    [​IMG] Celebi:
    • Physically Defensive - kyurem manhandles it
    [​IMG] Forretress:
    • Physically Defensive Spiker - tentacruel spins away its hazards and hits it hard with scald
    • Specially Defensive Spiker - same as above, must kill it asap for latias/kyurem to sweep
    [​IMG] Gyarados:
    • RestTalk - havent ran into one of these but poison it and make it take sr damage. hit it as hard as possible with latias/kyurem or leech seed it with ferrothorn.
    [​IMG] Jellicent:
    • Utility Counter - get toxic spikes down quick and kyurem handles the rest. must be wary of WoW.
    [​IMG] Tentacruel:
    • Toxic Spikes - tentacruel absorbs the tspikes, kyurem manhandles it with earth power. annoying because i need it gone to set up toxic spikes.
    • Substitute + Toxic - kyurem comes in, outspeeds, and sets up sub. from there it uses earth power and forces it out
    [​IMG] Gastrodon:
    • Tank - get toxic spikes down quickly and kyurem will lead you to victory.
    [​IMG] Espeon:
    • Dual Screens - landorus u-turns, basically just try to hit it hard
    • Baton Pass - this is why politoed has perish song
    [​IMG] Blissey:
    • Support - GET TOXIC SPIKES DOWN ASAP. once it is poisoned, kyurem stalls it to death easily.
    [​IMG] Vaporeon:
    • Wish Support - toxic spikes and kyurem spell doom for it
    • Rest Hydration - hard to take down. try to perish song with politoed or set up on it with latias,
    [​IMG] Bronzong:
    • Tank - hit it hard with surfs and scalds, although it lacks recovery i have a hard time getting rid of it.
    • Dual Screens - same as above, just try to kill it asap
    [​IMG] Slowbro:
    • Tank - lando-t u-turns out of it, ferrothorn sets up spikes on it, politoed poisons it and of course if it gets hit with t spikes kyurem stalls it out.
    [​IMG] Quagsire:
    • Curse - get toxic spikes down asap and KO it from there, fears ferrothorn
    • Specially Defensive - same
    • Physically Defensive - same
    [​IMG] Hippowdon:
    • Physical Tank - kyurem really scares this guy. versions w/o whirlwind gets set up on by latias. politoed obviously helps against him.
    [​IMG] Xatu:
    • Standard - avoid toxic and force it out with kyurem. lando-t makes it fear stone edge.
    [​IMG] Wobbuffet:
    • Bulky - nothing i can do here, lando-t u-turns out, ferro sets up spikes, politoed perish songs, kyurem uses sub, latias calm minds, tentacruel sets up t spikes.
    [​IMG] Whimsicott:
    • Prankster - kyurem has it on lock. ferro can hit it with gyro ball.
    [​IMG] Tangrowth:
    • Physically Defensive - kyurem destroys it.
    [​IMG] Sableye:
    • Prankster - a son of a bitch to deal with. hit it with scald when it spinblocks and hope for a burn. something is going to have to be burned in order to take it down, which is annoying.
    [​IMG] Porygon2:
    • Defensive - toxic spikes and kyurem stalls it out. ferrothorn sets up spikes on it.
    [​IMG] Chansey:
    • Support - make sure to get tspikes down asap, and kyurem stalls it to death.
    [​IMG] Amoonguss:
    • Standard - something takes the spore, kyurem walks all over it


    Importable:


    Code:
    Kyurem @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 54 HP / 220 SAtk / 236 Spd
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Substitute
    - Ice Beam
    - Earth Power
    - Roost
    
    Tentacruel @ Leftovers
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 248 HP / 240 Def / 20 Spd
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Scald
    - Rapid Spin
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Protect
    
    Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 44 Atk / 212 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - U-turn
    
    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 68 Def / 168 SDef
    Careful Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Spikes
    - Leech Seed
    - Gyro Ball
    - Thunder Wave
    
    Latias (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 76 HP / 180 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Calm Mind
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Psyshock
    - Recover
    
    Politoed @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SAtk
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Surf
    - Toxic
    - Psychic
    - Perish Song

    Conclusion:


    So that's the team. It has really shown me how effective Kyurem and Toxic Spikes are in this metagame, and it goes to show that BL Pokemon can be deadly on the right team. I wanna give a shout out to yee for being an awesome tutor last round, helping me improve my skills in BW2 overall and moreover, suggesting I use bulky toed which helped the team improve greatly. Also wanna give a shout out to Novaray for testing the team out and helping me improve it and to Venom, for being a bro (same to Novaray). That's about it, I hope you liked the RMT, and thank you if you read the whole thing. Leave a little luvdisc if you enjoyed it! :toast:
  2. TheStriker

    TheStriker

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2012
    Messages:
    117
    this will be my shortest and most infromal rate I have given in my life. lol.

    try black sludge over leftovers on tenta. it will be a nice way to cripple latios w/ trick and rotom too. try Choice Specs on politoed, this team has little to no offensive presence where stuff like stall though rare today will make you ragequit. considering that kyurem doesnt need rapid spin support due to the fast roost and that amazing bulk, tentacruel is a useless member on the team as it main job is easily countered by the rest of your other team members. Jirachi is a safe alternative as it gives you another steel to stop alakazam and has amazing typing that actually counters most the pokemon you have trouble with! bronzong is there if you want to keep defense and metagross is there for balancing the team 50, 50. anyways thats all I got. great team and gl!

    very informal.....

    EDIT: Jirachi has the ability to use Thunder and getting pseudo-STAB on Water Pulse lets you abuse the rain which none of your teammates do.
  3. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,301
    The biggest problem I'm seeing is Sub -3 attack Kyu-B, but Ferrothorn is a great check to it (although Blizzard in hail will hurt if it can safely spam it behind substitute). Another problem I can foresee is DubDance Landorus-T, which can sweep after setting up +2 / +2, although if you react fast enough you should be able to beat him too.

    So, ultimately, my only major concerns are Sun Teams and that Sub 3-attack Kyu-B. +2 Venusaur will sweep all day long. However, a team so solid can barely afford to change anything at all, and Kyu is a great check.

    So basically this post was to just say congratz to such a well crafted team! If you really found yourself more Venu weak than you would like, Rain Dance over Toxic Spikes on Tenta would ensure that you always win vs. Sun, but due from lack of using this team I'm not sure if you really abuse the poison TS can spread so you might just want to keep it ^^. I'm luvdic'ing, please continue to post teams! :3
  4. Gimmick

    Gimmick Electric potential

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    Messages:
    167
    Hey Milos!

    From what I can see, this team is really, really solid and seems to be able to play around just about everything--except Sun. Volcarona is very problematic, and since it's often paired with Venusaur and Spinners or Magic Bouncers, you'll have trouble getting it poisoned or weakened with hazards. It's able to set up on Tentacruel, Kyurem, Ferrothorn (is it worth it to risk a Thunder Wave?), and Latias, so I feel like something should be changed. I think you should try out a Specially Defensive Politoed over your Physically Defensive one with the exact same moves--they compliment your team brilliantly. You mentioned that you wanted to avoid ScarfTar and Jirachi with Politoed, but Landorus-T already does that very efficiently. Specially Defensive Politoed can switch into Volcarona quite often and Toxic or Perish Song depending on the situation. All you really need is for Volcarona to be poisoned to take it down, which will generally require you to take a +1 Bug Buzz if you switched on its Quiver Dance. That would force your current Politoed to take heavy damage and eventually lose the weather war, which is NOT good against Sun with this team. Here's the set (with a new EV spread):
    Politoed (open)
    [​IMG] (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 SDef / 32 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Toxic
    - Perish Song
    - Psychic

    The Spe EVs allow you to outspeed most Jellicent, Skarmory, and Scizor. Toxic Jellicent before it Taunts, Scald Skarm before it Roosts or Spikes, and Scald Scizor before it U-turns. The rest of the EVs maximize defensive capabilities. I did replace Surf with Scald because of the change in defenses--halving their attack is much more useful now. Toxicroak is still forced to set up to be able to OHKO you, so I don't think it will be too much of a problem. Other physical threats like Lucario and Terrakion are handled by Tentacruel and Landorus-T.

    Next up, I'd like to make a few changes to apprehend the weakness to Venusaur, which is in the same boat as SubCM Jirachi. Although Latias is normally seen as a good answer to Venusaur, your current spread can only dream of tanking +2 Sludge Bombs (252 +2 SpAtk Life Orb Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs 76 HP/0 SpDef Latias: 79.69% - 93.75% (43.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock). SubCM Jirachi, on the other hand, can set up on quite a few of your Pokemon and really just sweep flat once it gets some boosts going. Two simple changes on Latias can help drastically with both of these threats. First, change the EV spread to the standard CM one, which is 252 HP / 252 Spe / 4 SDef. It rarely dies (12%) to even +2 Modest Sludge Bombs after Stealth Rock, so it's something you can totally rely on. It also helps it take other hits, such as HP Ice from Sheer Force Landorus (another big threat). Next, to abuse all 3 of your hazards AND deal with CM wars, try out Roar over Psyshock. This assures that you will always beat SubCM Jirachi (unless it's the last Pokemon) and not have to worry about it setting up Substitutes on everything. Also, it Roars out +2 Venusaur so it won't have a chance to Growth again later. Venusaur isn't a problem outside of Sun, so prevention is viable here. Roar is useful in several other situations as well, like against Pursuiting TTars or other set-up sweepers. Yes, you do miss out on a Psychic STAB, but Landorus-T already deals with Terrakion. Keldeo can't 2HKO you anyway, so you don't need to OHKO it 93% of the time. Abusing hazards and dealing with threats efficiently is more useful than SE coverage on fighting types.

    And that's it. Like I said, it's a very solid team. Nice work! Good luck! ^-^
  5. Milos

    Milos

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    361
    Thank you guys for your rates!

    @TheStriker: i've considered black sludge > leftovers before but i don't like the fact that they can then trick it back onto my other pokemon. i only have ferrothorn aside from tenta that isn't damaged by poison, so i'm kinda iffy about it. as for politoed, i used to have a more offensive variant but to tell you the truth, this defensive set is really helpful. i wouldn't say stall is a problem, with toxic spikes down kyurem can handle most members of stall one on one. i'd have to disagree with you on tentacruel being a useless member; its actually one of the most important members on the team! although it would be nice to have another steel type, i feel like tentacruel is too important to this team. if anything i'd consider forretress over it since it can set up toxic spikes, spin, and give me an extra steel type... thanks for the rate!

    @Shurtugal: first of all, thank you for the rate and the lovely comments :) i only faced kyu-b a handful of times with this team and everytime it was- you guessed it- sub + 3 attacks. the way i maneuver around it is using lando-t to get off an intimidate if possible, and then tanking its hits with ferrothorn, breaking subs with gyro ball if needed. however i do feel like volc and venu are huge problems if not addressed quickly enough. basically, to be able to KO volc i need 2 things: rain up, and stone edge not to miss with lando-t. as for venu, latias must be kept alive at all costs and if needed i'll switch to something else to scout for sleep powder, but those with HP ice can be a real issue. again, thanks for the rate!

    @Gimmick: i'm really liking that specially defensive toed. it mitigates my volc weakness and leaves me less prone to RP lando (which can be a pain to handle).. i'll definitely be testing that out! i also love the latias suggestion... it makes sense to have roar on a team stacked with hazards although i'll miss psyshock for KO'ing breloom :( but i think the pros outweigh the cons here. thank you for the rate!!
  6. Linkjuhh

    Linkjuhh

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    27
    Hey dude,first of all,you have here a good and solid rain team,normally i don't like thoses team :D.
    But i don't know why ferrothorn.Sdef jirachi's better for you,really.You will enable to check big threat of your team like reuniclus,gengar,alakazam,Latias can't deal with them alone,its not enough.
  7. Trainer Au

    Trainer Au Insert custom title here

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2012
    Messages:
    269
    Milo you suck :P, I was just about to post my own T-spikes+SubRoost Kyu team but I can't now because they are basically the same team.
  8. Milos

    Milos

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    361
    @Linkjuhh: although jirachi gives me a better advantage over those pokemon you mentioned, i'm kind of on the fence about it because ferrothorn is one of my few counters to strong rain boosted attacks. it also provides spikes support which is crucial for this team. i'll have to test out jirachi though! seems like it could be useful to pass wishes along to lando-t... thanks for the rate!

    @Trainer Au: :p sorry about that!
  9. TheStriker

    TheStriker

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2012
    Messages:
    117
    oh hi, i just forgot that if you put an extra 20 or 32 EVs in SAtk you can ohko annoying cloyster leads with psychic try it
  10. Jok

    Jok

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2012
    Messages:
    9
    Dat uber mention
    Very solid team here, I can see you having trouble against Dugtrio+Volcarona (hp ice) or a great deal of dragons boosting over your face, considering that ddmence, ddhaxorus and ddnite always have lum Berry statusing them won't be that good, while intimidate landorus is good, is ultimately not a great answer.
    Have you considered running a Revengekiller like Choice Scarf keldeo over landorus? You can give sr to Ferrothorn, he can use sr+spikes without problems thanks to it's typing and bulk, Keldeo surpasses modest venusaur, the majority of dragons (all except the rare scarflatios) after a boost, and of course he checks Volcarona.
    Hope it helped, good luck
  11. Milos

    Milos

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    361
    @TheStriker: Cloyster leads are usually KO'd by Surf/Scald anyway, but thanks!

    @Jok: I agree, boosting Dragons ARE a big threat to this team, but I don't think replacing Lando-T fixes this problem. He's probably the most important team member when facing physical mons, and while Scarf Keldeo would help me out against those threats, it would open me up to a ton of more threats. Thanks for the rate anyway :)
  12. asterat

    asterat

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,048
    Well as boosting dragons and landorus-i are big threats I think this team would benefit from turning some stuff around to give you some more offense. I understand how toxic spikes and sub kyurem work in theory but with how BW2 works nowadays I don't see how they are that useful. I think spikes are always a better hazard, I know you want to keep your originality and shit but you want a good team, no? Defensive Donphan is a monster that can work over landorus which frees up tentacruel for a more offensive water type like azumarill or feraligatr or whatever. To fully abuse your hazards I would run a sharpedo or gyarados but that is my opinion. Donphan is so bulky it can always avoid 2HKO from CB terrakion's close combat, or almost always. Priority ice shard would help against DDnite/mence and (rock polish) landorus. Revenging latios and venusaur is nice too. Using HP electric over psychic on politoed would patch up any annoying gyarados weakness, toxicroak is not that big of a threat to this team with donphan's earthquake, latias' psyshock and sharpedo's earthquake/zen headbutt.
  13. Milos

    Milos

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    361
    @ Asterat: I have both Spikes and Toxic Spikes, so I don't understand what change your want me to make in that regard... Anyway, you say that Donphan is not even 2HKO'd by CB Terrakion's Close Combat... however Lando-T is literally not 2HKO'd by ANY of CB Terrakion's moves. I don't think you understand that Tentacruel is pretty much necessary for this team, a "more offensive" Water-type is not suited for this team, especially not Feraligatr or Azumarill (smh). In regards to changing Psychic to HP Electric and saying that Toxicroak is handled by the rest of the team: Donphan (which I will not be using, sorry) cannot take an Ice Punch. Latias gets mauled by Sucker Punch. Sharpedo (which I also do not think is a good fit for this team) would also get nailed by Sucker Punch.

    I'm not trying to come off sounding like an asshole for rejecting your suggestions but truthfully it just sounds like you didn't even read the RMT. You're suggesting I replace one of the most important Pokemon on this team (Tentacruel) to use something like Gyarados or Sharpedo, which have absolutely no synergy with the rest of the team, nor do they accomplish anything towards the goal of the team...

    Anyway, UPDATE: In regards to the Rock Polish Landorus weakness I previously had, I've tested the CM Latias suggested by Gimmick with the new EV spread and Roar and its been working amazingly. I've also decided to use his specially defensive spread on Politoed.
  14. Leftiez

    Leftiez *Stars*

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,014
    Hi there.
    It is a very interesting and very effective team, I can't really rate your team because it seems very correct, but I see a big weakness against Tornadus, you have nothing for tank properly his Hurricane, Latias is 2HKO, Politoed also, Ferrothorn is 2HKO by Hurricane and can't tank a Focus Blast, Tentacruel is 2HKO Hurricane and Kyurem also, then Tornadus can come on Ferrothorn/Tentacruel/Landorus-t, your team is very disadvantaged against Thundurus-T also, if the opponent has Nasty plot, you're 6-0'd, Ferrothorn is OHKO by Focus Blast, Landorus-T is OHKO by Hidden Power Ice, and Latias can not kill him with Dragon Pulse, I suggest you to Jirachi specially defensiv on Latias, Jirachi is a very good pokemon for your team it can come easily on Tornadus, but also on Thundurus-T because it can paralyze it with Body Slam and treated with Wish, then now you can counter Tyranitar or Scizor + Reuniclus/Alakazam, because the opponent can trapp Latias and set up to finish your team easily.

    Then your team is build around Kyurem, a pokemon weak against the Stealth Rocks, even if you possess Tentacruel you can not spinn correctly because the opponent can have a Ghost type as Gengar-Sableye-Jellicent, I suggest you put Tentacruel in Sub Toxic, with this set Tentacruel is very good for your team, it can use substitute and kill the Ghosts type, because Jellicent can not use Will-O-Wisp and does not break the substitute with Scald, you can try to burn Sableye with Scald because it cannot use Will-O-Wisp, Gengar is 2HKO by Scald under rain and Tentacruel has his ability Rain Dish to heal.

    Jirachi (open)
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 228 SDef / 28 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Body Slam
    - U-turn
    - Iron Head
    - Wish


    Tl;dr
    Show Hide
    Latias--->Jirachi
    Tentacruel--->SubToxic


    Hope I Helped and good luck with your Team.

    ~Leftiez
  15. Milos

    Milos

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    361
    @Leftiez: You're absolutely right about Tornadus. Thankfully, I've only faced it once, and the only reason I didn't lose to it was because it had taken SR damage + Dragon Pulse + LO recoil. I have been thinking about replacing Latias with Jirachi as well, but I'm not sure about it because Latias is my late game sweeper and my best answer against Breloom and Keldeo. I guess I have to pick my poison..

    As for SubToxic Tentacruel, I'll have to test it out. The way that I defeat Jellicent is to set up Toxic Spikes ASAP, then proceed to stall it out with Kyurem until it switches. Once it has switched out, it will come back in poisoned, making it a lot easier to handle. Gengar on the other hand is a bitch to play against, I basically have to hit it with Scald on the predicted switch-in. The hardest thing about playing against it is knowing its set. Against SubDisable I try to use Toxic Spikes as he Disables Scald, and then alternate to try to break its subs. Against SubSplit I just hit it with Scald repeatedly and recover HP with Protect when I can. And Sableye.... I don't think its worth making the change for this Pokemon. I'd rather be weak to it and be effective against the majority. However, SubToxic for Gengar and Jellicent sounds interesting, so I will definitely test it out! Thanks for the rate Leftoverz :)

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