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Frillish [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Metal Sonic, Nov 16, 2013.

  1. Metal Sonic

    Metal Sonic Turn it up!
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    [Overview]

    <p>Frillish has a lot of cons that prevent it from being effective on many teams. It has a niche on stall teams as a bulky spinblocker with reliable recovery that can check Pokemon such as Samurott and Charizard, but fails to be worth its weight more often than not. Frillish is extremely weak and slow&mdash;its only viable offensive moves are Scald and Night Shade&mdash;causing it to be setup fodder most of the time. Frillish faces a lot of competition for the role of a bulky Water-type, but as it is effective at dealing with the most common spinners&mdash;Wartortle, Torkoal, and Armaldo&mdash;it does merit some use on stall teams.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Recover
    move 2: Night Shade
    move 3: Will-O-Wisp
    move 4: Taunt / Scald
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Bold
    evs: 248 HP / 164 Def / 100 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>A physically defensive set is used as Frillish's typing is much more suitable for physical walling; with the investment, Frillish can take hits from threats such as Tauros, Pinsir, Swords Dance Samurott, and Primeape, and also avoid the 2HKO from Choice Band Sawk without Stealth Rock. With good prediction, Frillish even has a good chance to beat Skuntank.</p>

    <p>With its nice Special Defense, useful resistances, and Eviolite, Frillish can be quite specially bulky even without defensive investment. Frillish has more reliable recovery when compared to Misdreavus's Pain Split, as Recover consistently heals half of Frillish's health. Night Shade is used as the offensive move, as it deals a stable 100 damage on each use and does not rely on Frillish's horrible offensive stats. Frillish has another advantage in its typing, which permits it to defeat the common Rapid Spinners in the tier: Wartortle, Armaldo, and Torkoal. Will-O-Wisp is a great move to cripple opponents and cushion Frillish from powerful physical attacks. It is best used when predicting an opponent to switch into a physical attacker. Taunt is great to block Heal Bell users or boosting sweepers, but is more difficult to use due to Frillish's low Speed; fortunately it can still be used to reliably stop Musharna and Audino as they are slower. Scald can be used instead of Will-O-Wisp despite Frillish's low offensive stats, as strategic usage of the move can deal decent damage to super effective targets, especially on the likes of Golem, Armaldo, and Torkoal. Water Absorb is the preferred ability because Frillish appreciates the extra immunity.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>100 Speed EVs are invested to allow Frillish to outspeed and Taunt Modest Torkoal before it can use Shell Smash as well as Taunt Audino and Lickilicky before they can use Heal Bell. You can use a specially defensive set if you wish, as it is completely viable in the metagame; just shift the Defense EVs into Special Defense. 148 Speed EVs can be used to allow Frillish to outspeed minimum Speed Wartortle. This can be useful to Taunt it and prevent it from using moves such as Toxic and Foresight, allowing Frillish to reliably stop all of the Rapid Spinners in the tier. Toxic can replace Will-O-Wisp if Scald is used, although the latter is usually too good to pass up. Despite Frillish's ability to counter all the Rapid Spin users in the tier, Frillish should only be used on stall teams, as it has no offensive presence at all. One should consider Misdreavus or Alomomola as their roles overlap with Frillish; they should not be used on the same team.</p>

    <p>Good teammates for Frillish are those that set up entry hazards. Roselia and Garbodor can set up Spikes and Toxic Spikes while absorbing the Toxic Spikes that might linger on your field. Meanwhile, Probopass, Bastiodon, Golem, and Torkoal can set up Stealth Rock. Finally, great teammates include bulky Pokemon that can phaze the opponent to rack up entry hazard damage, such as Roar Bastiodon, Dragon Tail Lickilicky, Circle Throw Throh, and Whirlwind Mandibuzz.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Cursed Body can be used, but it relies on luck and is thus unfavorable. Shadow Ball and Ice Beam are other offensive options that Frillish has, but considering its low Special Attack, the moves won't hit very hard. Magic Coat is actually a really good option and can replace Taunt in the set, but is very prediction-reliant and only for advanced players. Frillish can also play a role in Trick Room support, but this is best left to other users such as Musharna, Duosion, and Audino. Frillish also has access to Acid Armor and Refresh, but these are gimmicky options at best.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Pokemon that do not fear Will-O-Wisp can take Frillish head-on. These include Toxic Boost Zangoose and Guts users such as Swellow, which take advantage of Frillish's weaker Defense stat and hit hard. Powerful Electric- and Grass-types that are common in the tier can switch in easily and KO it; Eelektross, Roselia, Rotom-A, and Ludicolo are prime examples. Finally, a faster Taunt user such as Mandibuzz, Misdreavus, or Skuntank can halt Frillish in its tracks and force it out.</p>
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2014
  2. FLCL

    FLCL
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    -physically defensive should be the first set since its typing is much more suited to physical walling. can actually take hits from threats such as tauros, pinsir, sd rott, scolipede, and primeape now while avoiding the 2hko from cb sawk if sr is not on the field. will also give it a good chance to beat skuntank if you can outpredict it. specially defensive should receive a big mention though in ac as it is completely viable.
    -mention how its only to be used on stall as it has no offensive presence at all. even then one should consider misdreavus and alomomola as they most likely will not be used if frillish is on the team
  3. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
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    Minor nitpick, the EV spread in AC to outspeed Wartortle needs a mention on how a faster Taunt can also prevent it from using Foresight as well, this preventing a spin
  4. Metal Sonic

    Metal Sonic Turn it up!
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    implemented
  5. FLCL

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    just a nitpick the nature should be bold
  6. Lolk

    Lolk you can't stop the beat
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    Fix C&C, as it still all implies that Frillish is a special wall. The guts users are still fine, but that bit about phyisical attackers that must avoid Wow is not a prime example. Mention stuff life Eel and Rotoms and Ludicolo and roselia that can switch in and easily kill it.
  7. Metal Sonic

    Metal Sonic Turn it up!
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    FLCL
    Lolkomori



    skeleton for reference

    Show Hide

    [Overview]
    • 3 immunities (normal fighting water)
    • hard counters physical samurott i think (maybe even special samurott cause grass knot does jack)
    • great abilities in water absorb and cursed body although cursed body is mainly for trolls
    • one of the best special defensive spinblocker
    • RECOVERY YAYYYY
    • STRONG MOVEPOOL: TAUNT W-O-W RECOVER SCALD NIGHT SHADE TOXIC
    [SET]
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Recover
    move 2: Night Shade
    move 3: Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
    move 4: Taunt / Scald
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Bold
    evs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • physically defensive is the first set since its typing is much more suited to physical walling. can actually take hits from threats such as tauros, pinsir, sd rott, scolipede, and primeape now while avoiding the 2hko from cb sawk if sr is not on the field. will also give it a good chance to beat skuntank if you can outpredict it.
    • Eviolite + high special defense + workable HP = STRONG WALL
    • Recover is best, better than Misdreavus' unreliable pain split
    • Night Shade = 100 damage per turn, quite stable
    • cockblock the spinners: armaldo wartortle torkoal
    • quite slow though so gotta use the Taunt right
    • will o wisp is to burn opponents (on the switch is optimal), cripple opponents and arguably cushions frillish from physical attacks on its weaker spectrum
    • taunt is to block heal bell/boosting sweepers but since frillish is very slow this may be tough; but is good for blocking musharna or audino or something
    • water absorb is used because an extra immunity is great! and cursed body is hax-friendly
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • 44 speed to outspeed min speed golem
    • specially defensive set can be used as it is completely viable; just swap the defense EVs into Special Defense
    • 148 speed evs can be used to outspeed min speed wartortle and taunt him to prevent him from toxic or foresight you = full cockblock
    • its only to be used on stall as it has no offensive presence at all. even then one should consider misdreavus and alomomola as they most likely will not be used if frillish is on the team
    • Scald can be used as primary burn mechanism instead of will-o-wisp so that it can deal a not-so-painful water STAB onto opponent, but actually can be used smartly with super-effective coverage e.g. on golem armaldo torkoal to actually be PAIN
    • if scald is used instead of W-o-w then obviously toxic replaces w-o-w
    • Good teammates are obviously hazard setters: Scolipede Roselia Garbodor for T/Spikes and Stealth Rock setters are commonly Probopass, Torkoal, Golem, etc
    • And then those who love hazards on the opponent's field: aka Powerful cleaners, try Charizard Jynx Kanghaskhan Sawk Ludicolo and more...

    [Other Options]
    • Shadow Ball and Ice Beam are offensive options that Frillish has, but considering its low Special Attack, it won't hit very hard.
    • Magic Coat is actually a really good option, but is very prediction-reliant and only for advanced players. (Can actually replace Taunt in my opinion but ?????)
    • Frillish can be a Trick Room supporter but this isn't its main set
    • Access to Acid Armor and Refresh are interesting options but are gimmicky at best

    [Checks and Counters]
    • Anything that doesn't fear Will-O-Wisp can take Frillish head-on.
    • Guts users make Frillish very scared. This includes Gurdurr, Swellow and maybe Zangoose with Toxic Boost activated
    • Powerful Electric or Grass-types are common in the tier can switch in easily and kill it. Eelektross, Roselia, Rotoms and Ludicolo are prime examples.
    • A faster Taunt user such as Mandibuzz or Misdreavus or Skuntank can halt Frillish in its tracks
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2013
  8. FLCL

    FLCL
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    qc 1/3
  9. Soulgazer

    Soulgazer
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    [SET COMMENTS]

    This should be the first bulletpoint:
    And this should go in AC (first bulletpoint, make the spdef mention second):
    [​IMG]
    QC 2/3 Metal Sonic
  10. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast DOES THIS LOOK LIKE THE FACE OF MERCY TO YOU!?!?
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    I know you're still writing this but that Overview needs some serious work. The end of the first sentence is wrong, Electric and Grass are definitely not its only "common weaknesses." Ghost and Dark are actually very common attacking types (see: Golurk, Haunter, Skunk, Liepard), and your wording makes it seem like those weaknesses don't even cripple it when they definitely do. Frillish is also not the most specially bulky spinblocker in the tier (although it is one of them), that award goes to Missy. You don't include a lot of Frillish's negatives in the Overview: it's weak as shit, it's very slow, it's often setup fodder, and it faces extreme competition from both bulky Waters and Missy. The Overview makes it sound like Frillish should be on every team when in reality it hardly finds a place on any team. You need to rehaul it into basically saying: Frillish has a lot of cons and weak points that prevent it from being effective on many teams. It has niche on STALL TEAMS as a bulky spinblocker that can check Pokémon such as Samurott and Charizard and has reliable recovery, but still fails to be worth its weight more often than not.

    Also pls put your skeleton in hide tags.
  11. Metal Sonic

    Metal Sonic Turn it up!
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    Dat Blast fixed overview, take a look please!

    my skeleton is on post #7
  12. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
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    For teammates, you have a lot of offensive teammates when the analysis (and most players) calls Frillish a stall pokemon only. i suggest more stall-oriented teammates such as roar bastiodon, Dragon tail lickilicky, circle throw throh, whirlwind mandibuzz, etc. I'd make a mention of toxic spikes being absorbed by poison types that you have.
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  13. Metal Sonic

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  14. Metal Sonic

    Metal Sonic Turn it up!
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    removed all mentions of jynx and scolipede
  15. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
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    Feel free to disagree with me, but I think that you should mention in the overview that while it isn't the best option on a stall team for a wall, it DOES handle the three (most common) spinners pretty well. Armaldo and Torkoal are naturally threatened by a possible Scald and the former hates Will-O-Wisp/Toxic while the latter needs to Shell Smash to actually beat it. Wartortle outright loses due to Frillish actually having recovery to outlast Toxic/Will-O-Wisp damage and hates Taunt. Basically, while Missy has better overall use, Frillish isn't as easily worn down by Armaldo that have SD, Torkoal that have Lava Plume, and Wartortle that have Scald. No need to list ALL of that, just say that it handles the most common spinners well.

    tl;dr: you should make a bigger mention of its effectiveness as a spinblocker, as that is really the ONLY reason to use it (walling SD rott and checking zard are just nice pluses that really can be done better by other walls otherwise).
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  16. Metal Sonic

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  17. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
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    Maybe just shorten all this to: "Frillish faces a lot of competition for the role of a bulky Water-type, but as it is effective at dealing with the most common spinblockers&mdashWartortle, Torkoal, and Armaldo&mdashit does merit some use on stall teams." You can adjust this to your writing style, but it just looks a bit cleaner like this imo.
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  18. Metal Sonic

    Metal Sonic Turn it up!
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    implemented WhiteDMist

    would love it if you could 3rd check this <3
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  19. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
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    I left QC, so sadly I can't. Dat Blast maybe?
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  20. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast DOES THIS LOOK LIKE THE FACE OF MERCY TO YOU!?!?
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    [Overview]
    • The wording of this is really weird. You don't have to specifically list all of the types it's immune / resistant / weak to since everyone knows that. If anything, you should list specific threats that it can switch into (Samurott, Zard, Pinsir, Ape, etc) since that's much more relevant.
    [SET]
    • I don't think 44 Spe is really that great of a benchmark since Golem commonly invests in Speed. 100 Spe is a better benchmark as it allows you to Taunt Modest Smashkoal before it Smashes and Taunt Audino + Lickilicky before they Heal Bell but I'm not 100% sure if the loss of bulk is worth it since it gives Sawk a chance to 2HKO with EQ.
    • Toxic to AC, Wisp is way too good to pass up. Even with Scald it's a much more reliable way of burning things.
    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Frillish doesn't have decent HP, base 55 is horrible. It can still take special hits due to Eviolite and its useful resistances but change the bolded part.
    • Don't mention Cursed Body in SC. Move it to OO.
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Move the Scald mention to SC as it's a listed move.
    • ???
    • You should also add Bastiodon to the list of SR setters.
    [Checks and Counters]
    • Remove Gurdurr because with only the standard Drain Punch + Ice Punch coverage it still loses. Meanwhile, pivot sets can cripple with Knock Off but usually run Iron Fist so they can't absorb burns, so Gurdurr isn't a good answer to Frillish at all.
    Implement Metal Sonic and I'll check back later
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  21. Metal Sonic

    Metal Sonic Turn it up!
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    implemented Dat Blast

    disagreed with sending toxic to AC so i left it there but if u insist i can remove it
  22. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
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    should be spinners right?

    cockblock is not a word I'd like to see in an analysis, the word "stop" or "defeat" are far more appropriate.

    Also, WoW is to good to pass up most of the time, so I would move it to AC as well.

    For the most part, the content is here, but the writing is quite subpar in a few areas (checks and counters in particular), it's readable, but there are a lot of common formatting mistakes as well. Check the thread for the rules on formatting before you send this to GP.

    I'll give this a 2/3 for now, but make sure you work on your formatting before sending it to GP!
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  23. WhiteDMist

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    Oops sorry, that was my bad not Metal Sonic's :P
  24. Metal Sonic

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    you meant 3/3? :>

    also implemented changes
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  25. GatoDelFuego

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    Metal Sonic

    REMOVE CHANGE COMMENTS

    Show Hide

    [Overview]

    <p>Frillish has a lot of cons and weak points that prevent it from being effective on many teams. It has niche on stall teams as a bulky spinblocker that can check Pokémon such as Samurott and Charizard and has reliable recovery, but still fails to be worth its weight more often than not. Some Pokemon that Frillish can switch into are Frillish is extremely weak and slow&mdash;its only viable offensive moves are Scald and Night Shade&mdash;causing it to be setup fodder most of the time. Frillish faces a lot of competition for the role of a bulky Water-type, but as it is effective at dealing with the most common spinners&mdash;Wartortle, Torkoal, and Armaldo&mdash;it does merit some use on stall teams.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Recover
    move 2: Night Shade
    move 3: Will-O-Wisp
    move 4: Taunt / Scald
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Bold
    evs: 248 HP / 164 Def / 100 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>A physically defensive set is used as Frillish's typing is much more suitable for physical walling; with the investment, Frillish can take hits from threats such as Tauros, Pinsir, Swords Dance Samurott, (AC) and Primeape, and also avoid the 2HKO from Choice Band Sawk without Stealth Rock. With good prediction, Frillish can even have a good chance to beat Skuntank.</p>

    <p>With Frillish's nice Special Defense and useful resistances, it can be quite specially bulky even without defensive investment when equipped with an Eviolite. Frillish has more reliable recovery when compared to Misdreavus's Pain Split, as Recover consistently heals half of Frillish's health. Night Shade is used as the offensive move, as it deals a stable 100 damage each use, (RC) without having to rely on Frillish's horrible offensive stats. Frillish also has another advantage in its typing, permitting it to defeat the common Rapid Spinners in the tier: Wartortle, Armaldo, (AC) and Torkoal. Will-O-Wisp is a great move to cripple the opponents and cushion Frillish from powerful physical attacks. It is best used when predicting an opponent to switch into a physical attacker. Taunt is great to block Heal Bell users or boosting sweepers, but is more difficult to use due to Frillish's low Speed; fortunately it can still be used to reliably stop Musharna and Audino since as they are slower. Scald can be used instead of Will-O-Wisp despite Frillish's low offensive stats, as strategic usage of the move can deal decent damage on super effective targets, especially to the likes of Golem, Armaldo, (AC) and Torkoal. Water Absorb is the preferred ability because Frillish appreciates the extra immunity.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>100 Speed EVs are given to allow Frillish to outspeed and Taunt Modest Smashkoal before it uses Shell smash and also Taunt Audino and Lickilicky before they use Heal Bell. You may use a specially defensive set if you wish, as it is completely viable in the metagame; just swap the Defense EVs into Special Defense if you so prefer. 148 Speed EVs can be used to allow Frillish to outspeed minimum Speed Wartortle&mdash;this can be useful to Taunt it and prevent it from using moves likes Toxic or Foresight, allowing Frillish to reliably put a full stop onto all Rapid Spinners in the tier. Toxic can be used to replace Will-O-Wisp if Scald is used, although Will-O-Wisp is too good to pass up most of the time. Despite Frillish's ability to counter all the Rapid Spin users in the tier, Frillish should only be used on stall teams, (AC) as it has no offensive presence at all. One should consider Misdreavus or Alomomola as their roles overlap with Frillish; they should not be used on the same team.</p>

    <p>Good teammates for Frillish will be those that set up entry hazards. (period) Roselia or Garbodor can set up Spikes and Toxic Spikes, (RC) while absorbing the Toxic Spikes that may might linger on your field. Meanwhile, Probopass, Bastiodon, Golem, (AC) or Torkoal can set up Stealth Rock. Finally, great teammates also have to include those which can phaze the opponent to rack up entry hazard damage, including bulky teammates like Roar Bastiodon, Dragon Tail Lickilicky, Circle Throw Throh, and Whirlwind Mandibuzz and more.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Cursed Body can be used, but it relies on luck and is thus unfavored. Shadow Ball and Ice Beam are other offensive options that Frillish has, but considering its low Special Attack, it won't hit very hard. Magic Coat is actually a really good option and can replace Taunt in the set, but is very prediction-reliant and only for advanced players. Frillish can also play a role in Trick Room support, but is best left to other users such as Musharna, Duosion, (AC) and Audino instead. Frillish also has access to Acid Armor and Refresh, but these are gimmicky options at best.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Anything that doesn't fear Will-O-Wisp can take Frillish head-on. These include Guts users such as Swellow or Toxic Boost Zangoose, (AC) which take advantage of Frillish's weaker Defense stat and hit hard. Powerful Electric- or Grass-types that are common in the tier can switch in easily and kill KO it; (SC) Eelektross, Roselia, Rotom-A, (AC) and Ludicolo are prime examples. Finally, a faster Taunt user such as Mandibuzz, (AC) or Misdreavus, (AC) or Skuntank can halt Frillish in its tracks and force it out.</p>

    [​IMG]
    1/2
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2014
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