Froakie (QC 3/3)


Overview
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  • Fast, hits a nice 17 Speed
  • Protean, obviously. 1.5x STAB boost on every attacking move is great.
  • Its special movepool is predictable, but effective
  • Has quite a few physical attacking and support options to take advantage of as well
  • Bulk -- not so great


Life Orb
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name: Life Orb
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Grass
move 4: U-turn
ability: Protean
item: Life Orb
evs: 68 Atk / 28 Def / 184 SpA / 188 Spe
ivs: 0 HP / 30 SpA / 30 SpD or 0 HP / 30 SpA
nature: Naive

Moves
========
  • Hydro Pump is Froakie’s hardest hitting move (tied with Blizzard actually), backed by STAB and Life Orb
  • Ice Beam hits Grass-types hard, as well as removing Froakie’s weakness to Grass
  • Hidden Power Ground is very important for hitting Chinchou. Not only does it deal super-effective damage, but it also makes Froakie immune to Electric.
  • U-turn is important for scouting purposes, and it gets the Protean boost as well
  • Hidden Power Grass can be used over ground to hit other Water-types harder

Set Details
========
  • Special Attack and Speed are maxed out so he can hit as hard and as fast as possible
  • 68 EVs then go into attack to boost U-turn’s power
  • The remaining EVs go into Defense, which helps against opposing priority (and it’s the only stat left that can be boosted)
  • Froakie’s base stats are pretty weird, so the EVs are clunky and some are left over
  • The IV spreads allows for 19 HP (only 1 HP of LO recoil) and Hidden Power Ground/Grass.
  • The given EV spread is compatible with both IV spreads without wasting any EVs.

Usage Tips
========
  • Froakie has a hard time switching into non-resisted attacks; so bring it in after a teammate has fallen or lead off with it
  • Go easy on the prediction with Froakie. Protean/Life Orb boosted attacks will still do a good amount to switch-ins, and a misprediction can cost Froakie its life
  • If in doubt, U-turn outta there

Team Options
========
  • A slow VoltTurn partner can help Froakie come in safely and threaten the opponent
  • Defog/Rapid Spin is good since Froakie will otherwise get worn down quickly by Life Orb and entry hazards.
  • A team mate that can handle priority moves aimed at Froakie is greatly appreciated. Larvesta resists several common priority moves and threatens to burn their users with Flame Body. Spritzee also makes a good team mate, since its great bulk and typing allows it to take on several.


Choice Scarf
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name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Grass
move 4: U-turn
ability: Protean
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 28 HP / 68 Atk / 28 Def / 184 SpA / 188 Spe
nature: Rash / Naive

Moves
========
  • Hydro Pump is Froakie’s hardest hitting move and is a useful revenge-killing tool
  • Ice Beam is for blasting those Grass- and Flying-types
  • Hidden Power Ground is great for Chinchou (and Volt Switch users in general), giving you the upper hand in the match early on.
  • Hidden Power Grass secures the OHKO on Tirtouga, and is Froakie’s best option against most Water-types
  • U-turn because, U-turn

Set Details
========
  • With full investment in Special Attack / Speed and Rash nature, Froakie hits 16 SpA and 24 Speed
  • Naive nature can be used to give Froakie an extra point in speed in exchange for a point in SpA
  • 68 EVs in Attack to give U-turn a little oomph
  • The remaining EVs go into HP and defense

Usage Tips
========

  • Froakie hits a great 24 speed, so in addition to outrunning the entire unboosted metagame, it can outspeed boosted mons such as +2 Adamant Tirtouga, as well as other common Choice Scarf users such as Chinchou and Mienfoo.
  • Naive nature allows Froakie to outspeed +2 Jolly Tirtouga.
  • Scarf Froakie outspeeds threats that would normally check it such as Ponyta and Staryu, allowing it to do good damage against them and/or pivot on them with U-turn.
  • Scarf Froakie is a momentum grabber early match, and a revenge killer mid-late match, and should be played as such
  • Froakie is still very frail, so don't go haywire with the predictions. U-turn if there is any doubt in your mind.

Team Options
========
  • A fast Volt Switcher naturally pairs well with a fast U-turner, so Elekid and Chinchou make good teammates.
  • Hazard support from mons like Dwebble helps turn 2HKOs into OHKOs, which is important because Froakie isn't meant to be taking hits.
  • Scarf Froakie is just as prone to priority as Life Orb Froakie, so team mates who can tank priority are very helpful. Joltik (lol) resists Mach Punch and Bullet Punch, and can form a super fast VoltTurn core with Froakie.

Mixed Attacker
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name: Mixed Attacker
move 1: Acrobatics
move 2: Hydro Pump
move 3: Substitute / U-turn
move 4: Hidden Power Grass / Quick Attack
ability: Protean
item: Berry Juice / [No Item]
evs: 28 HP / 152 Atk / 28 Def / 104 SpA / 188 Spe
nature: Naive

Moves
========
  • Once Berry Juice has been consumed, Acrobatics becomes a fearsome 110 BP STAB move
  • Froakie can also opt to run no item à la Fletchling, so Acrobatics is at full power right off the bat.
  • Hydro Pump hits impressively hard even without full investment
  • Substitute is a great move to set up on an opponent’s switch, and it also provides Froakie with a decently reliable way of activating Berry Juice and powering up Acrobatics
  • U-turn is a reliable way to get Froakie out of unfavorable situations while still doing some damage to the opponent
  • Hidden Power Grass is preferred in the last slot as it provides Froakie with a method of hitting Chinchou and Tirtouga while also providing Froakie with resistances to Electric, Water, and Grass.
  • Even though it's not the strongest, Quick Attack is a solid choice for picking off that last bit of HP from a faster mon.
  • Thief can be run in the last slot to steal an item, but this has synergy issues alongside Acrobatics.

Set Details
========
  • Speed is maxed out, and the Att/SpA EVs provide Froakie with decent mixed offenses
  • The rest go into HP and Defense so Froakie can tank hits a little better.

Usage Tips
========
  • Try and set up Subtitute on Froakie forces out, and preferably outspeeds. If they stay in, no worries, you’ll be able to trigger Berry Juice faster.
  • As always, consider possible negative effects of Protean's type changing mechanic. For example, trying to set up Substitute on something like Timburr will lead to you being KO'd by Mach Punch.

Team Options
========
  • Hazard support is once again appreciated since Froakie doesn't have Life Orb's power backing it up on this set.
  • Substitute/Quick Attack turn Froakie into a Normal-type, making it vulnerable to Fighting-types, so something that can switch in on Mach Punch/Vacuum Wave such as Larvesta or Spritzee pairs well with Froakie. Trubbish also gets a special mention, since it doesn't mind Knock Off used on a predicted switch-out.

Other Options
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  • Toxic can be used, which gets 100% accuracy thanks to Protean
  • Froakie can run a full physical set with options such as Waterfall, Return, Acrobatics, Thief, Power-Up-Punch, Rock Slide, and U-turn
  • Froakie gets Toxic Spikes (but not Spikes) and Taunt for additional team support
  • I really hope the move tutors are kind to this frowg...

Checks & Counters
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**Faster Pokemon**: Anything that can beat Froakie's 17 speed such as Misdreavus, Ponyta, Staryu, Taillow etc. will outspeed non Scarf Froakie and deal massive damage.
**Priority Users**: Since it's frail with no priority outside of Quick Attack, Froakie struggles against opposing priority users. Froakie is particularly prone after it has just used Ice Beam, since it can be easily revenged by Timburr and Croagunk with their super-effective priority. Fletchling can't switch in, but it can easily revenge kill Froakie, as long as it's not behind a Substitute.
**Tentacool**: Tentacool can tank anything Froakie throws at it, including HP Ground and 110 BP Acrobatics, and heal up with Berry Juice. It can then retaliate with Scald, which will OHKO Froakie if it just used HP Ground.
**Specially bulky mons**: Munchlax and Lickitung in particular are bulky enough to easily handle all of Froakie's moves.
 
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Are any of these Hidden Powers worth it to take advantage of their immunitites?

-Ground
-Flying (it gets Acrobatics though)
-Ghost
 
Are any of these Hidden Powers worth it to take advantage of their immunitites?

-Ground
-Flying (it gets Acrobatics though)
-Ghost
Several Hidden Powers are viable on Froakie since Protean is backing them up. I'm thinking about HP Fire since it hits Steel-types even harder than hydro pump, especially Ferroseed. However, HP Fire loses coverage against Water-types, which HP Grass provides. As far as taking advantage of immunities provided by the Hidden Powers you mentioned, it seems a little risky given Froakie's low defense. For example, using HP Ghost on a predicted Drain Punch could lead to you being OHKO'd by Knock Off. With correct prediction it works, but Froakie is usually better off launching Hydro Pumps or U-turning out than playing around with Hidden Power.

I'd say grass knot in at least oo as it can hit heavier threats harder even though most pokemon are lighter in lc.
What threats in particular would be heavy enough to warrant Grass Knot? If Grass Knot was included in OO there should be a prominent example(s) listed. I know that Chinchou, Tirtouga, and several water-types are hit harder by HP Grass while Slowpoke, Staryu, and Hippopotas are hit equally hard by HP Grass and Grass Knot. The only example of Grass Knot hitting harder I can think of right now is Onix, which takes 300% from Grass Knot as opposed to 200% from HP Grass...
 
never used froakie before, but have you tested a choice scarf set? could be a pretty potent revenge killer, especially that it gets u-turn and STAB everything
Having tested Froakie myself, this is a fantastic idea. I used one myself. It hits a nice 25 Speed.
 
Would slashing Life Orb and Choice scarf on the same set make sense? (since the moveset would likely be very similar)
 
From what I remember, it only gets Toxic Spikes through breeding. Greninja gets Spikes as a level up move, but not Froakie.
 
Oh. Stupid Bulbapedia.

What about a mixed set?

Froakie (F) @ Berry Juice
Ability: Protean
Level: 5
EVs: 152 Atk / 104 SAtk / 188 Spd
Naive Nature
- Acrobatics
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Grass] (/ U-turn??)
- Substitute (/ U-turn??)

STAB Water / flying is awesome, especially w/ no SR weak. hp grass hits chinchou+tirt and breaks mag sturdy while giving electric / water resist. sub lets you scout and activate Berry Juice.

Also Substitute doesn't seem half bad on standard LO set.
 
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Would slashing Life Orb and Choice scarf on the same set make sense? (since the moveset would likely be very similar)
Choice Scarf sets are typically separated from other sets even if they use very similar movesets because Choice Scarf changes the role of the Pokemon into a revenge killer.

DarkAmber's mixed set utilizing Acrobatics + Substitute set looks really nice. I definitely recommend testing that out. It seems even better than the LO set to me, but of course I haven't tried it out yet.
 
Oh. Stupid Bulbapedia.

What about a mixed set?

Froakie (F) @ Berry Juice
Ability: Protean
Level: 5
EVs: 152 Atk / 104 SAtk / 188 Spd
Naive Nature
- Acrobatics
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Grass] (/ U-turn??)
- Substitute (/ U-turn??)

STAB Water / flying is awesome, especially w/ no SR weak. hp grass hits chinchou+tirt and breaks mag sturdy while giving electric / water resist. sub lets you scout and activate Berry Juice.

Also Substitute doesn't seem half bad on standard LO set.
Why not go full physical? While Froakie has larger base SpAtk than Atk, at level 5, both Atk and SpAtk are equal.

I tested out this moveset on Froakie, and it worked very well ^^

Froakie (Itemless)
Ability: Protean
Level: 5
EVs: 28 HP / 228 Atk / 28 Def / 4 SDef /188 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Acrobatics
- Waterfall
- Thief
- U-turn

Froakie can take resisted hits pretty well, and thanks to protean's type changing shenanigans, it's easy to beat a lot of Pokemon one-on-one. Water/Flying is great neutral coverage, and also gives Froakie 7 resistances and one immunity to abuse. Thief is for stealing berry juices, and U-Turn is U-Turn. I guess you could use rock slide or substitute over thief if you use berry juice. EVs are max speed and attack, and the rest go into increasing every other stat bar SpAtk by one point.
 
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84 SpA Froakie Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Ponyta: 18-24 (85.7 - 114.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Froakie Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 76 Def Eviolite Ponyta: 14-20 (66.6 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

much, much weaker, also thief is weak as shit (and its basically only for sturdysmashers who get wrecked by acro hp grass (tirt) / hp grass + hpump (dweb), also yes those are equal defenses, also most rocks / steels have worse Special bulk, also why run acro w/o juice
 
84 SpA Froakie Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Ponyta: 18-24 (85.7 - 114.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Froakie Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 76 Def Eviolite Ponyta: 14-20 (66.6 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

much, much weaker, also thief is weak as shit (and its basically only for sturdysmashers who get wrecked by acro hp grass (tirt) / hp grass + hpump (dweb), also yes those are equal defenses, also most rocks / steels have worse Special bulk, also why run acro w/o juice
The point of my set was to take a hit or two and 2HKO back. Froakie's offenses aren't all that good, so it isn't going to be OHKOing too many things without a super effective hit. So froakie often needs some defensive investment to beat stuff, something you can't have if you run SpAtk EVs and a Naive nature.

Also, I was running Itemless froakie, copy-pasting the set from PS did not make that apparent. Thief works pretty well Itemless froakie, and the immunity and resistances you get from it can be useful at times.
 
not if you steal an eviolite :|

252 Atk Froakie Waterfall vs. 236 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Pawniard: 7-9 (29.1 - 37.5%) -- 1.1% chance to 3HKO
vs
104 SpA Froakie Hydro Pump vs. 236 HP / 36 SpD Eviolite Pawniard: 10-13 (41.6 - 54.1%) -- 59.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

84 Atk Protean Froakie Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magnemite: 3-3 (15.7 - 15.7%) -- guaranteed 7HKO
104 SpA Froakie Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magnemite: 15-18 (78.9 - 94.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
(15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 18)
vs
252 Atk Protean Froakie Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magnemite: 3-4 (15.7 - 21%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Froakie Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magnemite: 10-13 (52.6 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

104 SpA Froakie Hydro Pump vs. 236 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Archen: 18-24 (72 - 96%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
vs
252 Atk Froakie Waterfall vs. 236 HP / 76 Def Eviolite Archen: 14-20 (56 - 80%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

104 SpA Froakie Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gligar: 26-32 (113 - 139.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
vs
252 Atk Froakie Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gligar: 14-20 (60.8 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

waterfall is really weak

also SE STAB thief is 15 bp stronger than neutral STAB Acro (and Hpump for that matter)

on another note quick attack could be an option on any water/flying/u-turn set w/ phys investment
 
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Added a Choice Scarf and a Mixed set. The Scarf set is a pretty straight-forward revenge killing set, which I like. I've also been pleasantly surprised by the mixed set, since it allows Froakie to get past those special walls it despises. I can't really decide what to put in the last slot though. HP Grass seems like the best option at this point, but I'm also considering Thief, U-turn, and even Power-Up-Punch (I just don't want to muddy up the final slot with fifty moves). Any suggestions?
 
In the last slot? What are in the guaranteed first three, Sub/Hpump/Acro?

104 SpA Protean Froakie Hidden Power Grass vs. 76 HP / 0 SpD Chinchou: 14-20 (56 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
104 SpA Protean Froakie Hidden Power Grass vs. 76 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Chinchou: 12-14 (48 - 56%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
104 SpA Protean Froakie Hidden Power Grass vs. 76 HP / 228 SpD Eviolite Chinchou: 12-14 (48 - 56%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

So you can maim any Chinchou without SR support, but you're risking a speed tie w/ max/max Chinchou and you only 3HKO Berry Juice Chinchou anyway.

Honestly I think you need U-turn OR HP Grass because Chinchou is really common and it completely shits on you. But I also think that U-turn is kinda redundant with Substitute, and you need HP Grass with Substitute so you don't waste a sub whenever Chinchou comes in.

So:

Mixed Attacker
########
name: Mixed Attacker
move 1: Acrobatics
move 2: Hydro Pump
move 3: Substitute / U-turn
move 4: Hidden Power Grass / Quick Attack / Thief
ability: Protean
item: Berry Juice / [No Item]
evs: 28 HP / 152 Atk / 28 Def / 104 SpA / 188 Spe
nature: Naive

I don't like Power-up Punch. It's very weak, Rock-moves aren't even that common (and you shit on Rock-types anyway, unless they're Tyrunt, and Tyrunt will be scared of special set w/ Ice Beam), and Froakie is too slow to sweep anyway.

i also wouldn't use thief but i suppose it is viable

So, the two sets are Acro/Hpump/Sub/HP Grass @ Berry Juice and Acro/Hpump/U-turn/[Quick Attack / Thief] @ [No Item], imo. Not different enough to have separate sets, just mention that you need Substitute with Berry Juice in AC or whatever it's called now.
 
Hidden Power Ground has proven to be far superior to Grass after testing, so I think it definitely deserves the main slash in the LO and Scarf sets. Chinchou (arguably the most relevant Water-type) is hit equally hard by both moves and can't hit back with Volt Switch, while other things like Tirt aren't OHKO'd by HP Grass anyway thanks to Sturdy. The one thing you kinda miss out on is Slowpoke, and you're better off U-turning out on it anyway to avoid paralyzation. Water/Ice/Ground is different from the usual Water/Ice/Grass, but it suits Froakie/Protean very nicely.
 
84 SpA Froakie Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Ponyta: 18-24 (85.7 - 114.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Froakie Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 76 Def Eviolite Ponyta: 14-20 (66.6 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

much, much weaker, also thief is weak as shit (and its basically only for sturdysmashers who get wrecked by acro hp grass (tirt) / hp grass + hpump (dweb), also yes those are equal defenses, also most rocks / steels have worse Special bulk, also why run acro w/o juice
Except because of protean why do you need a water move at all? I'm thinking of testing out a full physical set with rock slide. Purely just to see what kind of situations I could take advantage of with the type change. Itemless with acrobatics, thief quick attack and rock slide. Although I might run u turn over quick attack. I'll let you know how it goes.
 
Except because of protean why do you need a water move at all? I'm thinking of testing out a full physical set with rock slide. Purely just to see what kind of situations I could take advantage of with the type change. Itemless with acrobatics, thief quick attack and rock slide. Although I might run u turn over quick attack. I'll let you know how it goes.
If you use Thief, you'll weaken Acrobatic's power.
 
But if you're smart with what you use thief on you can get berry juice. Most of the time. Waterfall is weak. Rock slide too. But because of protean froakie doesn't even need to run a water move. I'm not arguing against the op's set. I'm simply saying that ability of his opens up a wide range of things he can do. I need to look at his move pool again.
 
Waterfall is weak. Rock slide too. But because of protean froakie doesn't even need to run a water move.
i dont understand

you dont need a water move, you need hpump, because hpump has coverage + base power that the rest of its movepool lacks

i don't get why rock slide is so great when running it gets you walled by steels

But if you're smart with what you use thief on you can get berry juice. Most of the time.
how does this compensate for not being able to hurt stuff that resists acrobatics
 
Because if you get hit below 50% you just stole the opponents berry juice and used it against them. Coming in to the battle itemless opens up opportunities. Depending on the the situation you can acrobatics a lead mienfoo. You can steal a berry juice from a mon that usually carries it. Or you can u turn out of there. This is all referring to a full physical set.

EDIT I concede the special life orb set is its hardest hitting set after looking at his movepool. I still think the utility of the physical set is useful, regardless whether you're opponent knows or not. That speed lets it move first most of the time.
 
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You realize that Team Preview shows if the Pokémon doesn't have an item, right? (Meaning it'll be a dead giveaway that it has Acrobatics/Thief)
 

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