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Froslass (Analysis) [QC 0/3]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Trucy, Dec 2, 2010.

  1. Trucy

    Trucy

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    *QC Approved 0/3*

    STATUS: Written, open to comments

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Froslass Dex


    [Overview]

    <p>Froslass is quite the interesting little ghost. Once upon a time, with help from her 110 base Speed stat, she could proudly claim the title of the fastest non-uber Spiker – that is, until Accelgor came along flaunting that hefty base 145 Speed. However, Froslass still outspeeds quite a few Pokémon, including many of her would-be counters. She has the distinction of being the only Ghost-type Spiker in the game, and as such she is the only spiker immune to Mach Punch, 5th gen’s most commonly-seen priority. She does have a nasty weakness to Stealth Rock, though, and isn’t immune to any other entry hazard. Her Ice/Ghost typing provides 5 relatively common weaknesses, and low 70/70/70 defenses mean she won’t be taking many hits. An 80 in both attacking stats also leaves quite a bit to be desired. She has gained almost nothing new with the advent of the 5th gen; however, with an excellent support movepool, including access to Taunt, Spikes, Thunder Wave, Trick, Pain Split, and a move that other would-be suicide leads would die for in Destiny Bond, she has a niche all her own and can be quite useful if her cards are played right.</p>

    [SET]
    Name: LeadLass
    Move 1: Spikes
    Move 2: Taunt
    Move 3: Icy Wind / Shadow Ball / Ice Beam
    Move 4: Destiny Bond
    Item: Focus Sash
    Nature: Timid
    Ability: Snow Cloak
    EVs: 160 HP / 96 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>An immunity to Fake Out and her high base 110 Speed Stat will work with the Focus Sash to ensure that Froslass will always get at least one layer of Spikes up (barring an unforeseen flinch).</p>

    <p>Taunt allows her to prevent opposing Pokémon from getting their own hazards on the field, and Destiny Bond allows her to take down other leads who attempt to KO her before setting up their own hazards while predicting a Taunt. Destiny Bond can also be used against Pokémon that may cause trouble late-game, or those that fall under both categories. Spikes are the main focus of this set; seldom will Froslass fail to set up any hazards. It breaks other sashes and ‘mons with the Sturdy ability (assuming that they lack a recovery item such as Leftovers). The last slot is filled with the STAB move of choice. Since Froslass’s attacking stats are somewhat lacking, the options are limited to one of three moves. Icy Wind allows Froslass to lower an opponent's speed, making it easier to set up a Destiny Bond or another layer of Spikes. Ice Beam and Shadow Ball are both reliable STAB moves to hit opponents when Froslass is relatively useless (if a sash is broken or if three layers of spikes are already up). However, Froslass won’t be racking up many OHKOs with these moves and will only be able to finish off a select few; most KOs will be achieved through Destiny Bond. The Focus Sash allows for an extra layer of Spikes or a KO through Destiny Bond that would otherwise be impossible do to Froslass’s frailty.</p>

    <p>The 160 HP EVs provide Froslass with an HP stat of 321, and 96 Def allows Froslass 200 Defense, giving Froslass the opportunity to comfortably survive hits from hard-hitting walls such as Hippowdon or Vaporeon, and set up another layer of Spikes.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p> Although this is a lead set, Froslass does not have to be exclusively used as such. Focus Sash allows her to survive more than one hit, so if the opposing lead decides to switch after being Taunted, or if the opposing lead attacks and leaves Froslass with one HP after being Taunted, she can be removed from battle and saved for a surprise kill with Destiny Bond later on. To permit Froslass re-entry, there must not be any hazards on the field; thus a good Rapid Spinner for a teammate is essential.</p>

    <p> Note that Froslass loses most of its usefulness if Spikes are spun away. Another good teammate would be a separate spinblocker, as most Spikers are able to KO Froslass. Chandelure fits this position nicely, walling opposing Steel-type spikers like Forretress and Ferrothorn who would otherwise pose a large threat to Froslass. Trick can be used with a Choice item in place of Taunt, crippling other leads for the duration of the game; however, one must note that Trick is illegal with Cursed Body.</p>

    [SET]
    Name: Hail Stall
    Move 1: Fake Tears / Taunt
    Move 2: Blizzard / Shadow Ball
    Move 3: Thunder Wave
    Move 4: Substitute
    Item: Leftovers / Brightpowder
    Nature: Timid
    Ability: Snow Cloak
    EVs: 248 HP / 228 Def / 32 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Froslass in hail is a force to be reckoned with. Under hail and through Snow Cloak, if the opponent is paralyzed, there is a measly 60% chance that a 100% accuracy move will strike her.</p>

    <p>Substitute can add an extra annoyance factor, making it a harder task for the opponent to KO Froslass. Coupled with Froslass’s insane speed, this allows her to stall with Substitute until she avoids an attack. Additionally, she can predict a non-attacking move such as Swords Dance and take that opportunity to Thunder Wave the opponent before continuing to stall with Substitute. Fake Tears is her pseudo-boosting move, as sadly she gains neither Calm Mind nor Nasty Plot. If Fake Tears is used, a STAB move of choice is used to continue damaging the opponent, if not outright netting a KO.</p>

    <p>248 EVs in HP give Froslass the best defensive capabilities possible through HP while leaving it with an odd HP stat, so she can switch into Stealth Rock 4 times before fainting. The 32 Speed EVs allow her to outspeed unboosted threats like Gyarados (positively natured base 81s). The rest are thrown into Defense to give her greater physical bulk. Leftovers provides her with a means of recovery if the opponent decides to set up (entry hazards of their own) instead of attacking first.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Brightpowder can be used if the opponent is attacking Froslass rather than setting up; thus, Taunt is a good choice when combined with this item. Also, hail is a MUST with this set. Froslass’s time is numbered if there is no hail on the field. Spikes can be used on this set to take advantage of any free turns provided by the evasion boosts.</p>

    <p>Rapid Spinners can greatly relieve some of the stress placed on Froslass, as can spinblockers. Again, Chandelure is a nice spinblocker who is unconcerned about Steel-types such as Ferrothorn. Bulky waters can absorb her weaknesses to Steel and Fire should the need arise, and Suicine and Swampert can phaze, racking up more hazard damage. Swampert can also set up Stealth Rock to add to the residual damage.</p>

    [Team Options]

    <p>One Pokémon immediately springs to mind: Abomasnow. What’s a hail team without hail? Bulky Waters also make great teammates; Swampert can set up Stealth Rock, and both he and Suicune can phaze the opponent for more residual damage. Tentacruel can Rapid Spin as well as set up Toxic Spikes, which only aids Froslass further. (Avoid using Toxic Spikes if you intend to Thunder Wave the opponent, however). If you have Toxic Spikes on the field in addition to the normal Spikes, Chandelure has utility as a spinblocker, taking on any Steel types who would otherwise come in for free and threaten Froslass with a Gyro Ball. Heatran can work similarly, although it is unable to block any Rapid Spins. However, Froslass can come in on a Fighting-type move aimed at Heatran, while Heatran can take almost any attack intended for Froslass, possibly setting up rocks in the process.</p>

    <p>A good Rapid Spiner is all but required. Tentacruel is your best bet for a spinner when paired with Froslass, as Starmie shares weaknesses and frailty with our ghost, while Excadrill is next to useless on a hail team. Conkeldurr and Blaziken are also options if Blissey, Chansey, Porygon2, or Tyranitar are troubling Froslass and the team. Conkeldurr is a solid counter to many sandstorm teams in general, which would otherwise trouble Froslass greatly.</p>

    [Optional Changes]

    <p>While there isn’t much use for a change in Nature or Item, Froslass can benefit from the inclusion of Confuse Ray in a moveslot. It can help pull off surprise KOs, as a Taunt and Confuse Ray combination from Froslass can shut down Conkeldurr; if it doesn’t KO itself from confusion, Froslass can help it along with a STAB move, and Taunt ensures it cannot Bulk Up to avoid a Destiny Bond. The Focus Sash relieves the pressure of perfect prediction; thus keeping the field free of Stealth Rock is invaluable. The best way to utilize this set is with the Lead set, replacing Spikes with Confuse Ray.</p>

    <p>Hex can be used on the Hail Stall set in place of another STAB move; it is more powerful than Shadow Ball if one manages to paralyze the opponent; however, bulky Ground types like Hippowdon will wall this to no end. For this reason it is advisable to keep Shadow Ball over Hex. Froslass does get Ice Shard, but her low base attack combined with its low base power rule out most chances of using this effectively.</p>

    <p> A Lead Trick Set is plausible with Froslass’s immense Speed. Simply give her a Choice Item and replace Taunt with Trick, a combo which most leads are crippled by. A gimmick Petaya Berry set is also possible to take advantage of Froslass’s ability, Snow Cloak. Substitute down to low HP, and after a Petaya Berry boost, Froslass can actually do some damage; however, the lack of a boosting move is still disappointing. Froslass also has access to Thunderbolt. Paired with her choice of Ice STAB, she can use the infamous BoltBeam combo. However, this isn’t of much use due to her sub-par attacking stats; the aforementioned Petaya Berry alleviates this, but only by a little.</p>

    [Counters]

    <p>Froslass has a weakness to the extremely common Stealth Rock; the loss of 25% of her health every time she switches in is definitely a large problem. She lacks immunity to the other entry hazards, so her sash can be broken quite easily. Walls like Blissey or Chansey can and will stop Froslass’s attacks cold; however, if Froslass carries Taunt, neither can do much to the other. Bulky waters will wall Froslass’s attacks if she does not run Shadow Ball, and even then Suicune or Swampert can phase her out. Heatran walls both of Froslass’s STABs and can OHKO back. Ferrothorn and Forretress also wall Froslass’s STABs, and if they are taunted, they can use Gyro Ball. Chandelure is also quite dangerous as both its STABs are super effective against Froslass.</p>

    <p>Sandstorm is easily the single greatest threat to Froslass. Her ability is deactivated, and as such stall isn’t nearly as viable. Her sash is broken, and if she runs Blizzard she is out of a reliable STAB option. The Pokémon all commonly associated with sandstorm, such as Hippowdon, Tyranitar, and Excadrill cause massive trouble for Froslass too. Hippowdon is quite bulky and can whip up a sandstorm to counter Froslass’s Snow Cloak. The hippo is also immune to Thunder Wave. Tyranitar walls all of Froslass’s attacking moves and can easily KO back. The sash is nullified by T-tar’s Sand Stream, Crunch easily OHKOs, and Destiny Bond is unreliable as the opponent may see it coming. If the opponent attacks with T-tar and Froslass attempts to set up Spikes on the same turn, Froslass is easily defeated. Excadrill is about as dangerous as it gets. It outspeeds Froslass in a sandstorm, and Froslass can do nothing back. A super effective Rock Slide hurts a lot, and Froslass's sash is rendered useless by the omnipresent sandstorm.</p>

    <p>Pokémon equipped with a Choice Scarf will easily KO Froslass. If Froslass is not prepared for a scarfer and as such does not use Destiny Bond in preparation, the scarfer can proceed to KO. Scarf Jirachi is among the most dangerous of these, as its STAB Iron Head is super effective against Froslass, and a flinch can nullify any move Froslass wishes to make. Similarly, Speed Boost Blaziken can outspeed and cause problems for Froslass before she can do much back, and Scizor's Bullet Punch will easily KO.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>Froslass gains Cursed Body from the Dream World. This ability is best used when Froslass does not have hail support; with the help of the Focus Sash, an opponent's move may be disabled, thus granting a teammate a safe switch-in.</p>

    please comment on wording, facts, sets, anything. Thanks for the input!
  2. Trucy

    Trucy

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    Finished the basic skeleton, please comment and suggest changes

    GET NEW TOYS FROSLASS

    also I swear that if I take on a new analysis, it WILL be more different from the on-site sets.

    feedback is appreciated
  3. eduardosunshine

    eduardosunshine

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    I am using a set in my generation 4 hail team with some sucess

    Froslass@petaya berry
    Snow Cloak
    4hp252spatk 252speed

    Shadow Ball
    Blizzard
    Thunderbolt
    Substitute


    The idea is to use snow cloak's evasion in a hail to force miss.(great agains't fire blast infernape and other users of not-perfect accuracy) if I am suceffuly protected behind a sub I can use a 100% acc blizzard, shadow ball or thunderbolt to respond the enemy pokemon.
    with a petaya boost froslass reaches 388spatk with can be painfull.
    Thunderbolt is great because froslass is normally used as a lead and froslass don't use thunderbolt wich can catch the oponent off-guard by hitting for SE damage some pokemon like gyarados.
  4. smashlloyd20

    smashlloyd20

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    Couple things to suggest here. On the lead set you may want to put 0 IVs/EVs for all the defensive stats to improve Destiny Bond's workability. In addition, slashing Icy Wind on it might be good for niche use (think Icy Wind Gengar). In addition, if you really hate Abomasnow, Hail could also be slashed somewhere.
  5. Trucy

    Trucy

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    Added Petaya Berry/BoltBeam into other options. Slashed Icy Wind into the Lead set, and mentioned Hail in other options as well.

    Not sure about the 0 IV's, though. Destiny Bond is meant to take out threats, yes, but Froslass is frail enough to be unable to take any super effective hit at all, thus still giving Destiny Bond usefulness. With the defensive IVs left at 31, she'll be able to take some non-boosted/ non SE hits and KO with her STAB move, and you can save Destiny Bond for another Poké. Although it nullifies Froslass's sash either way, it enables her to come in later in the game and Destiny Bond without, say, having to worry about sandstorm as much.

    more opinions on the change to 0 defensive IVs, please? Since I'm not sure about this one I'd like to have as much outside input as possible.

    Also more opinions on the analysis as a whole are welcome and will begin writeup soon if no major changes are requested/required.
  6. RectumHoward

    RectumHoward

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    Constructive Criticism Coming from a Certified Critic

    First of all, pay no attention to my excellent use of alliteration in the title.

    Since you openly asked for suggestions, here is my LMFAOROTFLOL set:

    Frolass: adamant 252 att, 252 spd, 4 hp, rugged helmet, cursed body

    Sing
    Wake-up Slap
    Attract
    Double Team​

    First, you double team a bunch, then you attract if they are a male, then you sing them, then wake-up slap for uber damage. And if they manage to hit you after the double teams, they get damage from rugged helmet :D :naughty:

    I would also like to disagree with your claim that Froslass gained nothing of importance with the addition of 5th gen. SHE GAINED FRIGGIN CURSED BODY. Also, friggin evil eye, one of the best moves ever. I would also like to mention that many steel types in a steel monotype team are threats to Froslass, such as STEELIX, and GIGIGEAR.

    Don't remove the pun in the first section because it is PUNNY

    Who cares about 25% damage from Stealth Rock, URUGUMASU gets 50% damage and nobody's complaining about him or CHARIZARD.

    Change the name of set #1 from leadlass to suicide bomber

    Change the name of the set called hailstall to FRIGGIN PISSES ME OFF

    Other than that terrible work on the guide.

    Your stepmother,

    Rectum
  7. Noble Cactus

    Noble Cactus

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    Does Froslass face much competition from Agirudaa as a Lead Spiker? He's much faster (though he doesn't get Taunt) and learns Desperation, the new "Fighting Type Explosion." He also has - for reasons unknown to me - a higher Special Attack (100), but much lower defenses and pure Bug typing. So no immunities to Fake Oit and Fighting attacks.

    @RectumHoward: Don't try so hard next time.
  8. Trucy

    Trucy

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    I personally don't think Agirudaa has much of an edge over Froslass - just pointing out that Froslass was no longer unique in terms of being the fastest spiker.

    you know what, surprisingly enough, this could work on the hail stall set in conjunction with thunder wave

    btw 0/10
  9. Trucy

    Trucy

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    Written, looking for any comments/suggestions.

    And QC checks too, I guess. :3
  10. RectumHoward

    RectumHoward

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    Constructive Criticism Coming from a Certified Critic Continued...

    Why did you not incorporate the names I suggested? They were after all, valid suggestions you are asking for.
  11. (makeup)

    (makeup)
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    I think Cursed Body should be used on the spiker set. It works well with Focus Sash and is useful against Choice users. Icy Wind is extremely useless outside of Ubers, because Froslass outspeeds anything it needs to kill anyway. Also, no hail spiker?
  12. Calm Pokemaster

    Calm Pokemaster
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    I second -Charmander-'s sugestion. Snow Cloak is doing next to nothing on the first set, and you only get any use out of it if the opponent happens to run a Hail team.

    Spikes should get an AC mention on the Hail Stall set, since with Snow Cloak and Substitute, Froslass can easily get the oppurtunity to lay down 3 layers of Spikes.

    Also, I think a TrickScarf set is viable. You might want to consider writing its own set instead of just an OO mention.

    Good luck.
  13. jrp

    jrp Waves grow frigid as darkness freezes light
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    No.
    That's way too gimmicky, and double team is banned in standard. You get little coverage, and rely on sing to hit, which has horrendous accuracy. Even. If it is a lol set
  14. Neto-senpai

    Neto-senpai

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    As for an ANYTHING set:

    I have tried Froslass on a rain team with acceptable success

    Name: Rain Abuser
    Move 1: Ice Beam
    Move 2: Thunder
    Move 3: Weather Ball
    Move 4: Trick / Shadow Ball
    Item: Choice Specs / Life Orb
    Nature: Timid
    Ability: Snow Cloak
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    With the same coverage as Starmie, this Froslass has surprised a lot of challengers, with Ice STAB it downs most grass counters for rain teams, Weather Ball becomes a 100 BP / 100 Acc Water attack boosted by the rain that dents a lot of incoming fire types attempting to wall 'lass, and thunder becomes 100 acc in rain that along Ice beam gains excellent bolt/beam coverage.
    Last slot depends on the item of choice, with Life Orb Shadow Ball becomes the better move for more coverage plus STAB while Trick can hamper a lot of walls by tricking them a Choice Specs.

    Cursed body would have been the better ability, but it is illegal with Weather Ball and Trick.

    I know there are a lot of better rain abusers out there, but if you have problems with a lot of water types this Froslass might fit somewhere in there.
  15. GtM

    GtM

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    What a cool idea. I'm going try this out just for the sheer "lolwut" factor, and that it actually looks like a good set. It's certainly going to throw the opponent off when you have a Politoed /and/ a Froslass on your team.
  16. Neto-senpai

    Neto-senpai

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    Yeah I had soundproof aboma on the team as well, and they all thought "double weather team... interesting" xD
  17. Trucy

    Trucy

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    been a while~

    Definitely. I wasn't sure if Cursed Body had been released at the time of writing, but Cursed Body is definitely a better option overall besides under hail.

    Will do.

    I'm worried about the analysis getting excessively long, as well as the fact that there wouldn't be enough difference between the two sets. I guess I could put it into AC as well?

    if more people disagree and think its worth a set, I'll change that ;p Or if you had any significant differences in mind between using Trick, then also please let me know.

    Thanks!

    I think what you said is true; there are a lot of better rain abusers out there, and this is mostly outclassed by things like Starmie, who has an easier time coming into most attacks and hits a lot harder more quickly than Froslass can. So while it seems like an interesting set, I'm not sure if it should go into the analysis...

    opinions though? if more people feel that this works, I'll gladly put it in the set.
  18. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

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    I have a serious problem with the suicidal nature of a Spiker Frosslass ever since last Gen. Frosslass has no use for the Special Attack EVs, as by nature of Ice type will deter Dragons (He OHKOs base min / min Garchomp and Salamence easily with no EVs). Therefore, defensive EVs are MUCH more useful. The current spread I listed gives you 320 HP and 200 Def, which is respectable enough to avoid 2HKOs from walls such as Hippo and Vaporeon (the hardest hitting walls). This allows you to comfortably set up Spikes every time you see a wall, while using your speed to deter offensive power houses from setting up. This is Frosslass's best niche as a spiker, especially because she boasts the title of the only spiker that can block simultaneously. Stop using her as 100% suicidal, she can do much more.
  19. IcyMan28

    IcyMan28

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    Agreeing with Raikoulover, but suggest 156 HP / 100 Def / 252 Spe, as 320 HP is divisible by 4 and thus Froslass will die in 4 switch-ins to rocks.
  20. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

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    I actually miscalculated, it yields 321 HP / 200 Def. :)
  21. The Tyranitar

    The Tyranitar

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    This should be Icy Windnot Ice Beam, right?
  22. wilson46

    wilson46
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    I also think the bulkier spread should be used, as it isn't Frosslass' main job to attack (especially with only one attacking move) but rather to support. I think Pain Split should get at least a mention in AC, if not slashed with Destiny Bond. With the defensive investment, this allows Froslass to switch into walls such as Gliscor and the aforementioned Vaporeon to spike, and Pain Split off any damage it might have taken.

    Tyranitar should be stressed as a basically perfect counter as it can come in on any move, barring Destiny Bond, set up the sand, and trap Froslass with pursuit. Whereas with Hippowdon and Excadrill, you could at least hit them with Ice Beam and switch out without fear of pursuit if need be.
  23. Noble Cactus

    Noble Cactus

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    Now, does Froslass face any competition from Accelgor as a suicide lead? I'm thinking not, but Accelgor has access to Desperation (or whatever it's known as now), as well as the fastest spikes this side of Ubers. He also has Yawn and U-Turn to help set up, though he doesn't have Froslass' Normal/Fighting immunities, nor does he have Taunt.
  24. IcyMan28

    IcyMan28

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    Froslass' immunity to normal moves makes it the only Spiker + Spinblocker in one pokemon.

    Forry or Tentacruel, for example, can lay their hazards due to high Spd/resists, then spin against Accelgor, but they cannot do so against Froslass.
  25. Noble Cactus

    Noble Cactus

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    True. That quality is one of the main reasons I like using her. Can't forget that D-Bond makes for some nice mindgames as well, whereas Desperation is just a Kamikaze move.

    Has anyone found Cursed Body to be of any use? I mean, it's better than Snow Cloak on a non-Hail team, but… well, Froslass isn't known for taking hits well. I'm just wondering if it's had any impact on someone's match, because I can't figure out many situations where it'd be useful, aside from the safe switch-in mentioned in the OP.

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