Froslass [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

Ace Emerald

The hero pays the price
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
#1
[pimg]483[/pimg]
Froslass
Credit to complete_legitimacy for the current analysis

[Overview]
<p>In the Spikes-centric metagame that is UU, the ability to set up Spikes as well as to spinblock is invaluable. Froslass's niche is that she can do both. Her amazing Speed allows her to set up many layers of Spikes quickly, while blocking the opponent's setup with Taunt. Her great offensive typing lets her check both offensive threats such as Zapdos and Flygon and defensive threats such as Gligar with a super effective STAB move. However, poor offensive and defensive stats can let Froslass down, and she also has a mediocre defensive typing that leaves her weak to Stealth Rock, as well as Houndoom's and Weavile's Pursuit. In spite of these flaws, Froslass is one of the best Spikes users in the metagame.</p>

[SET]
name: Utility
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Taunt
move 3: Ice Beam / Shadow Ball
move 4: Pain Split / Destiny Bond
item: Leftovers
ability: Cursed Body
nature: Timid
evs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Froslass utilizes her blazing base 110 Speed to quickly set many layers of Spikes. Her Ghost typing provides immunities to Fighting- and Normal-type attacks, which in turn allows her opportunities to switch into battle and prevent the opponent from clearing the Spikes with Rapid Spin. Froslass can further use her Speed to Taunt opposing Pokemon, preventing them from laying hazards or boosting their stats. STAB Ice Beam gives Froslass some offensive presence, and allows her to OHKO Gligar, Flygon, and 2HKO Zapdos. Furthermore, it prevents Froslass from being useless when faced with a faster Taunt user, such as Azelf. Shadow Ball can 2HKO Azelf and usually OHKO Chandelure after Stealth Rock damage. Pain Split is Froslass's most reliable form of recovery, and can simultaneously heal Froslass and weaken a Pokemon with more HP. Alternatively, one could again take advantage of Froslass's great Speed by using Destiny Bond when she is at low health, KOing the opposing Pokemon as well.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>The EVs maximize Froslass's Speed so she can lay hazards as quickly as possible. The 248 EVs in HP increases her bulk while keeping her HP on a Stealth Rock number. The final 8 EVs in Special Defense ensure that Download Pokemon such as Porygon2 will get a less preferable Attack boost when switching into Froslass. Froslass's ability, Cursed Body, has great synergy with her Ice / Ghost typing. She has several immunities and resistances, and Cursed Body sometimes disables the only move an opponent has to damage her, allowing her to get more Spikes layers. Thunderbolt can be used in the fourth slot to grant Froslass great offensive coverage and lets her deal more damage to Blastoise, a common spinner. However, Froslass cannot even manage to 3HKO Blastoise, so the move doesn't have much merit. The best teammates for Froslass are offensive Pokemon that take advantage of the passive damage dealt by Spikes. Darmanitan, Heracross, Yanmega, and Sharpedo are just a few of the many Pokemon who appreciate Spikes damage. Froslass also likes being paired with a phazer, as forcing the opponent to switch will rack up Spikes damage. Swampert and Empoleon can use Roar to phaze and can set up Stealth Rock to deal even more passive damage.</p>

[SET]
name: Dedicated Lead
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Taunt
move 3: Destiny Bond
move 4: Ice Beam / Shadow Ball
item: Focus Sash
ability: Cursed Body
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Even with Team Preview, Froslass can still function well as an effective dedicated lead. Again, Froslass can use her above-average Speed to set many layers of Spikes, giving her team an advantage at the start of the match. Taunt prevents opposing Pokemon from setting up hazards and furthers the advantage of Froslass's team. Destiny Bond allows Froslass to KO an opposing Pokemon when she faints, ensuring both teams have the same number of Pokemon remaining. Ice Beam and Shadow Ball are reliable STAB moves that allow Froslass to deal damage after Spikes are set, or if a faster Pokemon Taunts her.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>The given EV spread maximizes Froslass's Speed and Special Attack. This allows her to lay Spikes quickly and hit a few important Pokemon hard--most notably, it lets her score a 2HKO on specially defensive Xatu as it tries to come in to bounce Spikes. It also achieves an OHKO on offensive Zapdos and Stallbreaker Crobat after Stealth Rock, should she get a chance to hit them with an Ice Beam later in the match. Focus Sash usually allows her to lay two layers of Spikes, and almost always get at least one. Cursed Body can sometimes disable a Pokemon locked into one move with a Choice item and help Froslass get more Spikes layers. Thunder Wave can be used to spread paralysis and further support Froslass's team. Pain Split can be used after her Focus Sash activates to deal a lot of damage to the opposing Pokemon while healing Froslass. Sweepers who can take advantage of the extra Spikes damage are the best teammates for Froslass. Darmanitan, Heracross, Yanmega, and Sharpedo are all good options. Even though Froslass blocks Rapid Spin with her Ghost typing, another spinblocker such as Cofagrigus or Chandelure is a good choice to keep the Spikes in place after Froslass faints. Chandelure and Offensive Trick Room Cofagrigus can also take advantage of Froslass's Spikes layers, using the passive damage to get past potential counters.</p>

[Other Options]
<p>Froslass is a very one-dimensional Pokemon and doesn't have too many other options. However, she can try an offensive set. Froslass has great offensive coverage with Thunderbolt beside her STAB Ice Beam and Shadow Ball. A Choice Specs set can even use Trick to cripple a wall. However, Froslass is often let down by her lackluster Special Attack.</p>

[Checks and Counters]
<p>Dark-types including Weavile, Bisharp, and Houndoom resist Froslass's STAB attacks and can use Pursuit to ensure Froslass is KOed. Azelf can Taunt Froslass before she sets up Spikes, and takes very little from Ice Beam. Xatu can bounce back Froslass's Spikes, but takes a lot of damage from Ice Beam. Froslass is setup bait for Calm Mind Raikou, but her Taunt ensures it can only get one boost. Cobalion resists both of Froslass's STABs and can OHKO with Iron Head, or even set up Swords Dance if Froslass doesn't use Taunt. Victini, Darmanitan, Arcanine, and Rotom-H can all switch into Froslass with impunity and OHKO with their STAB Fire moves. Blastoise and Hitmontop commonly use Foresight, allowing them to use Rapid Spin despite Froslass's immunities.</p>
 

DTC

I'll be your 1-Up girl
is a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
#3
I'd mention in the Overview that Frosslass is one of the few Pokemon that can act as a dedicated lead. Where you mention Taunt, you don't mention the fact that Frosslass can prevent other Pokemon from setting up hazards, which is pretty important.
 
#4
Thanks for the input

I'd mention in the Overview that Frosslass is one of the few Pokemon that can act as a dedicated lead. Where you mention Taunt, you don't mention the fact that Frosslass can prevent other Pokemon from setting up hazards, which is pretty important.
Mentioning Froslass as a dedicated lead and I'm pretty sure I mentioned hazard layers in the Overview
 

kokoloko

what matters is our plan!
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
#5
You should really have two sets here. Dedicated Lead and Bulky Support or some other name. I'll expand more when I get home cause doing so via my phone is annoying.
 

Heysup

I'm your rational mind.
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
#6
I also really really think Shadow Ball should be slashed with Ice Beam. What are you more afraid of setting up, something that you can Taunt and set up on (like Roserade and Gligar) or something that can fuck your whole team up that Taunting doesn't really stop to certain extent (like Chandelure, Cofagrigus, Azelf etc). Not that Ice beam isn't useful for revenging shit like Shaymin and Flygon, it's just that some people may be more scared of Chandelure, other Froslass, and the like.
 
#7
I agree with Heysup and I really think that Frosslass should be running max speed on all sets if for no other reason then to tie with other lass
 
#8
Ok hitting Chandy and Azelf are important slashing Shadow Ball

And the dedicated lead set is something like this right
[SET]
name: Dedicated Lead
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Taunt
move 3: Destiny Bond
move 4: Ice Beam / Pain Split / Shadow Ball
item: Focus Sash
etc

If I'm not mistaken then Ill unslash DBond and Focus Slash from the main set.
And as for full speed fine it can be useful for outspeeding Cobalion and Mismagius I guess
 

Nas

Banned deucer.
#12
Pain Split doesn't need to be on the dedicated lead. Destiny Bond is better to abuse your sash and it doesn't really make sense to have both. You're better off with Ice Beam or Shadow Ball for some revenge-killing capabilities.
 
#13
Pain Split doesn't need to be on the dedicated lead. Destiny Bond is better to abuse your sash and it doesn't really make sense to have both. You're better off with Ice Beam or Shadow Ball for some revenge-killing capabilities.
Fixed, Moved Pain Split to AC
 

kokoloko

what matters is our plan!
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
#19
Actually, we approved this a little too quickly. Let's hold off on GP for a couple days because RT wanted to discuss some stuff.

For one, remove Focus Sash from the Utility set. We're also discussing whether the EVs should be in SpA or HP for the Lead set, so hold tight!
 

kokoloko

what matters is our plan!
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
#21
Yeah, here:

1. Remove Sash from the Utility set.
2. 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe on the Dedicated Lead set.

Max SpA does a few cool things:

1. OHKO on Offensive Zapdos and Stallbreaker Crobat after Stealth Rock. (not too important)
2. Guaranteed 2HKO on Spikes Roserade and max HP Togekiss accounting for Leftovers. (kind of important)
3. Guaranteed 2HKO on 252/252+ Xatu (very important)

Mention the important ones in the analysis. You should also give max HP over SpA a mention in the Additional Comments of the set; saying you can avoid the 3HKO from Blastoise's Scald (assuming it doesn't burn on the firs try) with it.
 

NixHex

Doing just fine, here at the top of the world
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
#23
[Overview]

<p>In the Spike s-centric metagame that is UU, the ability to set up Spikes as well as the ability to spinblock are invaluable. Froslass's niche is that it can do both. Its amazing Speed allows it to set up many layers of Spikes quickly, while blocking the opponent's set up with Taunt. Its great offensive typing lets it check both offensive threats such as Zapdos and Flygon, and defensive threats such as Gligar with a super effective STAB move. However, poor offensive and defensive stats can let Froslass down, and it also has a mediocre defensive typing that leavinges it weak to Stealth Rock and Pursuit coming from Houndoom and Weavile. Froslass, inIn spite of these flaws, Froslass is one of the best Spikes users in the metagame.</p>

[SET]
name: Utility
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Taunt
move 3: Ice Beam / Shadow Ball
move 4: Pain Split / Destiny Bond
item: Leftovers
ability: Cursed Body
nature: Timid
evs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Froslass utilizes her blazing base 110 Speed to quickly set many layers of Spikes. Her Ghost typing provides immunities to Fighting- and Normal-type attacks, which in turn allows her oppuortunities to switch into battle and prevents the opponent from clearing the Spikes with Rapid Spin. Froslass can further use her Speed to Taunt opposing Pokemon, preventing them from laying hazards or boosting their stats. These traits makes Froslass one of the most reliable and effective user of Spikes. STAB Ice Beam gives Froslass some offensive presences, and allows her to OHKO Gligar, Flygon, and 2HKOes Zapdos. Furthermore, it prevents Froslass from being useless when faced with a faster user of Taunt, such as Azelf. Shadow Ball can be used to 2HKO the aforementioned Azelf, and can usually OHKO Chandelure after Stealth Rocks damage. Pain Split is Froslass's most reliable form of recovery, and can be used to simultaneously heal Froslass and weaken a Pokemon with more HP. Alternatively, a one could use Froslass's great Speed again and use Destiny Bond when she is at low health, KOing the opposing Pokemon as well.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EVs maximize Froslass's Speed so she can lay hazards as quickly as possible. The 248 EVs in HP increases her bulk while keeping her HP on a Stealth Rocks number. The final 8 EVs in Special Defense ensure that Download Pokemon like Porygon2 will get a less preferable Attack boost when switching into Froslass. Thunderbolt can be used in the fourth slot to gerant Froslass great offensive coverage and lets her deal more damage to Blastoise, a common user of Rapid Spin. However, Froslass's cannot even manage to 3HKO Blastoise, so the move doesn't have much merit. The best teammates for Froslass are offensive Pokemon that take advantage of the passive damage dealt by Spikes. Darmanitan, Heracross, Yanmega, and Sharpedo are just a few of the many Pokemon who appreciate Spikes damage. Froslass also likes being paired with a phazer, as forcing the opponent to switch will rack up Spikes damage. Swampert or Empoleon can use Roar to phaze, as well asnd set up Stealth Rocks to deal even more passive damage.</p>

[SET]
name: Dedicated Lead
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Taunt
move 3: Destiny Bond
move 4: Ice Beam / Shadow Ball
item: Focus Sash
ability: Cursed Body
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Even with the addition of tTeam pPreview, Froslass can still function well as an effective dedicated lead do to her sheer effectiveness. Froslass uses her above average Speed to set many layers of Spikes, giving her team an advantage at the start of the match. Taunt prevents opposing Pokemon from setting up hazards and furthers the advantage of Froslass's team. Destiny Bond allows Froslass to KO an opposing Pokemon when she faints, ensuring both teams have the same number of Pokemon remaining. Ice Beam and Shadow Ball are reliable STAB moves, that allows Froslass to deal damage after Spikes are set, or if a faster Pokemon Taunts her.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The given EV spread maximizes Froslass's Speed and HP. This allows her to lay Spikes quickly, and hopefully take a few hits in return the best she can. Focus Sash usually allows her to usually lay 2two layers of Spikes, and almost always get at least 1one. Thunder Wave can be used to spread paralysis and further support Froslass's team. Pain Split can be used after her Focus Sash is activates to deal a lot of damage to the opposing Pokemon while healing Froslass. Sweepers who can take advantage of the extra Spikes damage are the best teammates for Froslass. Darmanitan, Heracross, Yanmega, and Sharpedo are all good options. Even though Froslass blocks Rapid Spin with her Ghost -typing, another spinblocker such as Cofagrigus or Chandelure is a good choice to keep the Spikes in place after Froslass faints. All Chandelure and Offensive Trick Room Cofagrigus can also take advantage of Froslass's Spikes layers, using the passive damage to get past potential counters.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Froslass is a very one-dimensional Pokemon and doesn't have too many other options. However, she can try an offensive set with Life Orb or Choice Specs. Froslass has great offensive coverage with Thunderbolt beside its STAB Ice Beam and Shadow Ball. Furthermore, aA Choice Specs set can use Trick to cripple a wall. However, Froslass is often let down by her lackluster Special Attack.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Dark-types including Weavile, Bisharp, and Houndoom resist Froslass's STAB attacks and can use Pursuit to ensure Froslass is KOed. Azelf can Taunt Froslass before she sets up Spikes, and takes very little from Ice Beam. Xatu can bounce back Froslass's Spikes, but takes a lot of damage from Ice Beam. Froslass is set up bait for Calm Mind Raikou, but her Taunt ensure it can only get one boost. Cobalion resists both of Froslass's STABs and can set up OHKO with Iron Head, or even set up Swords Dance if Froslass doesn't use Taunt. Victini, Darmanitan, Arcanine, and Rotom-H can all switch into Froslass with impunity and OHKO with their STAB Fire moves. Blastoise and Hitmontop commonly use Foresight, and canllowing them to use Rapid Spin despite Froslass's immunities.</p>


I'm not going to include a diff because I want you to see the errors you made so you can avoid them in the future.
[gp]1/2[/gp]
 

Lee

@ Thick Club
is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
#25
personally i'd like to see a mention on the wonderful synergy of Cursed Body alongside Froslass's typing and tendency to lay hazards as it was one of the neatest things and most pleasant of surprises about this set when i used it but it has zero presence in this analysis. nothing sweeter than when something tries to hammer you to limit the amount of Spikes you can lay, only to find themselves disabled and forced to switch while you get an extra layer and rack up more residual damage, it has also saved me from Pursuit users a few times

also, two sets are a bit similar for my liking and i dont buy into the 'but they play differently' logic since I used Ice Beam/Taunt/Spikes/Destiny Bond @ Focus Sash and never had any problems deploying it as a lead or as a more resilient layer mid-game depending on who i felt the opponent would lead with, they play the exact same so i'd rather see a few sentences in the Utility set about how it can function as a dedicated lead but w/e, it looks great otherwise