1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

Froslass

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by OmegaForte, Oct 1, 2010.

  1. OmegaForte

    OmegaForte

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    805
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]/[​IMG]
    # 478 - Froslass

    Froslass! She returns in the 5th generation, ready to set up some Spikes and block Rapid Spin at the same time.

    Abilities
    Snow Cloak -Raises the Pokémon’s evasion during a hailstorm by one level.

    Dream World
    Ability
    Cursed Body -If it is attacked, it will occasionally cause the attacking move to be Disabled. 30%

    Base Stats
    70 HP | 80 Atk | 70 Def | 80 SpAtk | 70 SpDef | 110 Speed
    Level Up Moves (open)

    Lv1 - Powder Snow
    Lv1 - Leer
    Lv1 - Double Team
    Lv1 - Astonish
    Lv4 - Double Team
    Lv10 - Astonish
    Lv13 - Icy Wind
    Lv19 - Confuse Ray
    Lv22 - Ominous Wind
    Lv28 - Wake-Up Slap
    Lv31 - Captivate
    Lv37 - Ice Shard
    Lv40 - Hail
    Lv51 - Blizzard
    Lv59 -
    Destiny Bond


    Learnable TMs (open)

    TM06 - Toxic
    TM07 - Hail
    TM10 - Hidden Power
    TM12 - Taunt
    TM13 - Ice Beam
    TM14 - Blizzard
    TM15 - Hyper Beam
    TM16 - Light Screen
    TM17 - Protect
    TM18 - Rain Dance
    TM19 - Telekinesis
    TM20 - Safeguard
    TM21 - Frustration
    TM24 - Thunderbolt
    TM25 - Thunder
    TM27 - Return
    TM29 - Psychic
    TM30 - Shadow Ball
    TM32 - Double Team
    TM41 - Torment
    TM42 - Facade
    TM44 - Rest
    TM45 - Attract
    TM48 - Troll
    TM56 - Fling
    TM63 - Embargo
    TM66 - Payback
    TM68 - Giga Impact
    TM70 - Flash
    TM73 - Thunder Wave
    TM77 - Psych Up
    TM79 - Ice Breath
    TM85 - Dream Eater
    TM87 - Swagger
    TM90 - Substitute


    Egg Moves (open)

    Block
    Spikes
    Rollout
    Disable
    Bide
    Weather Ball
    Avalanche
    Evil Eye
    Fake Tears

    *In bold is what I think are good moves for Froslass.*

    Potential Sets

    Froslass @ Focus Sash
    Ability - Cursed Body
    Nature - Timid
    EVs - 252 SpAtk/4 SpDef/252 Spe
    ~Spikes
    ~Taunt
    ~Ice Beam/Shadow Ball
    ~Destiny Bond

    Standard Froslass set. Her main purpose is to be a lead. Spikes is the main thing you want to set up. Taunt allows her to stop opposing leads from setting up their own entry hazards, cause status problems, or set up on you. (Stat boosting moves) After that, use Destiny Bond to take down the opposing Pokemon to tie up the match while having Spikes on the field. Ice Beam is your main attack, to destroy most Dragons while Shadow Ball is to hit ghost types such as Shadera and Desukan. About her Dream World ability, it actually makes good uses. Here, scarletnova states a possible scenario how Cursed Body has it's uses. It's nice to have a move disable because this opens up a turn for a Pokemon to set up Swords Dance, Stealth Rock, etc, if the opponent decides to switch out.

    Froslass @ Bright Powder
    Ability - Snow Cloak
    Nature - Timid
    EVs - 248 HP/228 Def/32 Spe
    ~Fake Tears
    ~Blizzard
    ~Thunder Wave/Substitute
    ~Substitute/Shadow Ball

    Okay, so this looks very similar to the Snow Cloak abuser set; though different because of a new egg move! With Fake Tears, Froslass can be a bit of a support. You must run Froslass with Abamasnow to have Hail weather in effect. The best way to make this work is to scare off a Dragon type, use substitute, and then use an appropriate move depending on he Pokemon. Most of the time T-Wave is best to use after sub. Fake Tears can be used first instead of T-Wave because we want a 2 SpDef drop. From there, attack of switch out to an appropriate counter. Counters that benefit from the drop are obviously specially based Pokemon. Now for some reason I think about Shandera comes into mind because of that huge 140 SpAtk. Despite of the ghost type weakness, Shandera benefits from paralyzed opponents or Pokemon with a 2 SpDef drop. With Shadow Tag, opposing Pokemon won't escape and will be OHKO'ed most of the time. There is one flaw... switching out ruins this set but like I said before, it's a combination of the Snow Cloak abuser set. Toxic Spikes support is excellent since she can possible avoid an attack and cause some sort of stall.

    Uberslass @ Focus Sash
    Ability - Cursed Body
    Nature - Timid
    EVs - 252 SpAtk/4 SpDef/252 Spe
    ~Spikes
    ~Icy Wind
    ~Shadow Ball/Ice Beam
    ~Destiny Bond/HP Fire

    This set still has uses in the 5th generation. Icy Wind is to slow down leads such as Deoxys. It still works well if the opponent decides to switch because many will not like the speed drop. Follow up with Spikes. Shadow Ball is so you can stop Deoxys-S from setting up more than one layer of Spikes, only set up Stealth Rock, or none at all if Deoxys-S decides to taunt Froslass. Ice Beam also works out fine due to a few more Pokemon to hit super effectively like Zekrom. Destiny Bond is to take down one Pokemon as a last resort while HP fire is to take out Forretress and Genosekuto. (Assuming Genosekuto gets into ubers)

    Final Thoughts
    Froslass is still a good lead when you pair her up with other Pokemon. Those would be the ones who want to sweep a team since layers of Spikes helps them eliminate Pokemon more easier. Even with GameFreak enabling to see each others Pokemon, she can still pull something off with her 110 base speed.

    Thoughts, criticism, new sets to work out with Cursed Body, etc, are welcomed.
  2. KokoaKiwi

    KokoaKiwi

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2010
    Messages:
    743
    Most stall teams I've encountered so far carrie the stell/grass thingie to spam entry hazards and gyro ball. Can Froslass counter it somehow?
    Other than that, I think Froslass can work as a viable check to many current threats, like Chomp, Shandera, Ono, Land/Voltros, Viridion, etc.
  3. IronGross

    IronGross

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    24
    I love this thread!

    Can Froslass on a Hail team play more offensively than usual without beeing outclassed by Gengar, and what about TormentLass?
  4. eduardosunshine

    eduardosunshine

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2010
    Messages:
    16
    I think this new ability could be useful against something choiced.

    Like you are hit by a choice scarf stone edge from heracross and the ability disables the move, heracross will be forced to use struggle or switch giving you a free turn.

    the same can happen with locking moves like outrage/petal dance.

    if this is the case then froslass can also do something mid-game or at the lead position if facing a choice pokémon like band scizor using bullet punch
  5. Green Mage

    Green Mage

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2008
    Messages:
    567
    As her old ability was completely useless on her lead set, her new one is strictly better, even if it only goes off 30% of the time. Removing cb scizor's bullet punch would be gravy.

    Unfortunately she has problems with erufuun and sableye and any other mischievous heart dudes with taunt and status. She could ice beam erufuun after getting stun spored, but she can't do anything to sableye really. Misvhievous heart is going to kill the whole 'suicide lead' concept imo.
  6. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,677
    Froslass can 2HKO all Miscievous Heart Pokemon with Ice Beam so they won't be as big of a problem as you might think.

    I don't see why you're assuming Deoxys-A and Genosekuto will be Uber. In the begining at least, they're most likely going to be allowed in OU and may end up staying there. I haven't seen anyone say that Genosekuto will be anywhere near an initial banlist.

    Edit: Why does Froslass need to counter Natorei? Shouldn't you have something like Heatran or Shanderaa to take it on?

    Even if you're just trying to take down leading Natorei, you either get up one layer of Spikes as it attacks and KO it with Destiny Bond, Taunt it as it attacks and get either KO it with Destiny Bond or set up a layer of Spikes, Taunt it as it tries to set up Spikes/SR and fails (you'll then get either two layers of Spikes or one layer and KO it), or you both set up 3 layers of Spikes, it gets up SR, and you kill it.
  7. Immaterial

    Immaterial

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2010
    Messages:
    98
    Spiker Froslass HP Fire against Nattorei, 252 HP / 252 SDef, +SDef nature: 40.9% - 48.9%
    Most Nattorei don't run max SDef, so you're pretty much guaranteed a 2HKO... unfortunately, Gyro Ball completely destroys Froslass no matter what, so you'll need your Focus Sash for this to work. Destiny Bond works too, I guess, and you could always hope for Cursed Body to activate. No truly reliable way of countering it with Froslass though.

    While the new ability is better than Snow Cloak for non-Hail teams, it's a bit sad to see that Froslass didn't gain any interesting new moves in Gen V. Oh well.
  8. IronGross

    IronGross

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    24
    I personally don't think Froslass changed much from D/P, and I also don't see how Snow Cloak is useless when you opponent might as well lead with an Abomasnow.
  9. OmegaForte

    OmegaForte

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    805
    I was thinking of a set consisting of torment. The problem is that she isn't bulky enough to pull it off.
    Snow cloak isn't useless but with these 2 sets, Cursed Body is better.
    Wow. I complete forgot about band/scarf Pokemon. Sorry everyone, I will add that info in and run some calcs later. (I'm not on my computer)
  10. IronGross

    IronGross

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    24
    Torment+what? Maybe pair with T-Wave and Spite?
  11. OmegaForte

    OmegaForte

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    805
    Not too sure about the ev spread but...
    Froslass @ Bright Powder/leftovers
    Nature: Timid
    Ability: Cursed Body
    EVs: 252 HP/6 SpAtk/252 Spe
    ~T-wave
    ~Torment
    ~Confuse Ray
    ~Ice Beam/Shadow Ball

    Problem is that I think the Snow Cloak abuser set works better. Therefore that set should be used.
  12. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,677
    Does Cursed Body work on the same counter as Disable? If it doesn't, you could potentially run Disable to stop your opponent from using two different moves.
  13. OmegaForte

    OmegaForte

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    805
    Froslass doesn't learn Disable. I don't think any Pokemon with this ability learns Disable.
  14. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,677
  15. Lucindril

    Lucindril

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2010
    Messages:
    243
    I'm so glad you made a thread on one of the most awesome Gen. 4 Pokemon. I hope she lives up to her previous standards this generation. =D Oddly enough, she still outspeeds a large portion of the metagame, including lots of new Pokemon, so I reckon she'll still be very effective.
  16. Griffen78

    Griffen78

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    81
    her MAIN threats are dark and fire types yes? well a stab ice beam should be able to get a dark type down pretty easy. this might sound odd. but possibly give her hp water?
  17. OmegaForte

    OmegaForte

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    805
    I'm so sorry. I forgot to post egg moves! I will post them a soon as I get home. I assume it is a egg move unless my eyes are playing tricks on me. Problem is Froslass needs Spikes.

    I have faith she will. Froslass speed and the only ghost type to set up Spikes makes her unique in this new metagame. My top favorite as well.

    Griffen: Froslass only has 80 base SpAtk. She needs stab-moves to hit hard. (Cause at least 2OHKOs or one for most dragons.)
  18. Griffen78

    Griffen78

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    81
    She is the maiden frozen by sorrow. Ofcorse she will be effective this gen. her new ability even makes her extremely useful outside of the hail, but weather teams are skyrocketing in usefulness so I have a feeling she will be a comman hail team member (that is if people use weather teams besides rain and sun which we all know will skyrocket even more this gen)
  19. XxSaiyanxLordxX

    XxSaiyanxLordxX

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2010
    Messages:
    44
    Fross can barely take a hit. Unless @ full health w/focus sash, there is no doubt a stone edge from heracross will OHKO. plus cross is uu now. -.-
  20. OmegaForte

    OmegaForte

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    805
    There are rare occasions where I have revenge killed a Pokemon because of a Scarfslass. (Sometimes I end up not using Trick)

    I updated with a new move set, though I think it's too hard to pull off. I need thoughts on it. Also I might add a Scarf set. I just need someone to explain to me the new mechanics on using Trick with a Band/Scarf/Specs.
  21. Wafflez

    Wafflez

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2010
    Messages:
    414
    Interesting...Another ability that relies on hax and is equally as annoying >__>.Frosy may make a staple Spiker/Spin Blocker/Revenge Killer this gen.Lets wait and see =P
  22. red12345

    red12345

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Messages:
    166
    Substitute attacker just got more annoying :S
  23. Griffen78

    Griffen78

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    81
    she worked well as a hail abuser last gen. why not this gen? (aspecially with all the new weather team hype)
  24. Noble Cactus

    Noble Cactus

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2010
    Messages:
    133
    Glad to see one of my favorite Gen IV Pokémon is getting some attention. It's just too bad Froslass really didn't get a whole lot.

    My main concern is how she'll fare against the new proposed suicide lead, Aguurida the clam ninja (who, admittedly, is one of my favs from this gen). As another fast–extremely fast–spiker who also gets a suicide mover (Desperation) and also has average coverage, will Froslass' niche lie in her ghost-typing's benefits?
  25. OmegaForte

    OmegaForte

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    805
    Red: Yes, it did.
    Griffen: That's just it. You will need Abamasnow alive or at least have a Pokemon access to Hail.
    Noble: That's my biggest worry. Though Froslass being a spin blocker should make her different from Aguurida as a lead.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)