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Frosty's Revenge: Peaked at #1

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Wolfey, Aug 29, 2011.

  1. Wolfey

    VGC 2016 Masters Champion

    Jul 7, 2009
    Frosty's Revenge
    Peaked at #1
    Hi everyone, I'll start off by introducing myself, and explaining why I chose to use something as "bad" as hail. Ive always been fascinated by the idea of underrated things, namely hail and Gravity. I have yet to build a working Gravity team, so Ive always focused my efforts on team building on hail. I made a working hail team in Gen 4, and I really liked the way it ran so when Gen 5 came out I built another hail team, with the star player scarf Garchomp. The team worked great, but soon it was VGC season and I got swept up into it, forgetting all about my lonely hail team. Once VGC ended, I returned to OU, only to find my beloved hail team sent to Ubers due to Garchomp being banned. Heartbroken, I set to work searching for another hail team that could stand up against the current metagame of weather users that appeared to have the upper hand over Abomasnow. This is the fruit of my labor, a hail team that works and has proven its worth, peaking at number one, this is my hail semi-stall.

    Mamoswine @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Snow Cloak
    EV's: 252 Speed 252 Atk 4 Def
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -Sp A)
    -Stealth Rock
    -Ice Shard
    Since Generation 4, this guy has been my preferred lead on most of my teams. Mamoswines sheer attack power can tear holes in anything that doesn't resist it. Mamoswine is generally my preferred lead, with the ability to set up Stealth Rock if he threatens the opposing lead. Mamoswine can be used against all typed of other weather teams, if they lead. Tyranitar will generally switch into Skarmory/Gliscor/Rotom W allowing you to set up rocks for free. Balloon Ninetails is generally faster, so even though they'll believe they have the upper hand you can fire off 1 HP Endeavors to stop them. Politoed will generally scald if they're bulky, allowing you to Stealth Rock T1 and Endeavor T2, providing your not burned. Scarf Politoed can beat Mamo one on one, but has trouble with the lack of leftovers recovery and the lack of bulk against the rest of the team. Also, bear in mind that earthquake 2HKO's Politoed, so should you fear your opponent to be informed and toxic instead of Scald, you can take the safe route. Endeavor is a great move, and really fits Mamoswine well. He can come in late game with 1 HP under hail on a choiced electric move, and net a KO a turn. Ice shard is used over Icicle Crash because of the priority, and generally I dont find myself wanting for a stronger Ice move from Mamo. Mamo is the only Electric Immunity on the team, and also packs the only priority. With sash you should always try and keep him alive as long as possible, hes a great late game sweeper as well as hard hitter early game.

    Abomasnow @ Leftovers
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EV's: 252 Hp 252 Special Defense, 4 Speed
    Calm Nature (+Spe D, -Atk)
    -Leech Seed
    Abomasnow is the only Pokemon with the snow warning ability, which shows that even Game Freak is looking down on hail as every other Weather condition has two Pokemon with the auto Weather ability. This Abomasnow set has both Pro's and Cons. I used to run Max Hp, Max Speed Timid nature but Ive found I like the bulk more than I like the speed. The given Ev's allow Abomsnow to effectively wall Common special attackers, such as Jellicent, Starmie lacking HP fire, and most Importantly Politoed. Scarf Rotom W who is becoming ever so common also struggles against Aboma, especially with Protect. Focus Punch is an option over Protect, and although it does help against Tyranitar and Heatran, I find protect much more useful overall, and the team has other ways to deal with the previously mentioned. Substitute is great against slower status users that will attempt to hit Aboma, Chansey and Blissey being great examples as with there massive HP Aboma will heal a remarkable amount each turn with leech seed. Abomasnows biggest weakness is Stealth Rocks, which unfortunately is very common. If you can find a way to deal with Tyranitar a Magic Bounce user might be able to find a way onto this team to help deal with that. Abomasnow ice typing leaves it with alot of common weaknesses, namely Fire Fighting and Rock, however the most important thing to remember about Aboma is that you cannot allow him to die until your opponents weather has gone down. Abomsnow and Tentacruel cover each others weaknesses well, and with Toxic Spikes support Aboma can wall an entire team weakened late game.

    Gengar @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Levitate
    EV's: 252 Speed 252 Special A 4 HP
    Timid nature: (+Speed -Atk)
    -Shadow Ball
    -Focus Blast
    -Pain Split
    Gengar is my spinblocker, and helps check offensive threats such as Latios who otherwise gives this team alot of trouble. I run Black Sludge over Life Orb because with Hail taking 6 percent of his HP a turn, he really can not afford to run Life Orb as it makes him too easily stalled out. I like this gengar set as it can work well against both Chansy and Blissy, substituting into thier Thunder Wave then Pain Splitting back all of his HP. As Ice is weak to fighting Gengar provides the essential fighting type immunity that this team craves. Substitute is a great move to scout switches, and although Ive considered and tested other moves in its place, I find Substitute the most useful. Gengar is an excellent wall breaker, Substituting into red and healing back chunks of its Hp against a defensive Pokemon that cant one shot it.

    Skarmory @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EV's: 252 HP 252 Def 4 Spe
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Brave Bird
    - Spikes
    - Roost
    - Whirlwind
    Skarmory is my defensive wall, and although Sharing a weakness to fire with Aboma and Mamoswine he more than makes up for it with his impressive stats. Some people are probably wondering why I run max Defense and no Special Defense, but the truth is Skarmory should never be taking a special hit on this team, as anything super effective another Pokemon can take better. Any special Fire or fighting move tentacruel can take, while any electric or water Abomasnow would prefer. Without Skarmory, I have a massive Excadrill weakness which was the original reason Skarmory was added. If you wanted to, you might be able to fit Walrein in this slot instead but too many ice types are hard to cover up. Skarmory sets up spikes for the team, which is a valuable asset, as well as the ability to phase. Skarmory works better under Sandstorm, and while he doesn't wall all Tyranitar (Namely ones that pack Fire Blast/Flamethrower) Sand helps him more than hail does.

    Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Liquid Ooze
    EV's: 252 HP 136 Special D 120 Defense
    Calm Nature: (+Special D, -Atk)
    -Rapid Spin
    -Toxic Spikes
    -Knock Off/Haze
    Tentacruel is an amazing Pokemon and whenever I need a spinner I always look straight to him. Tentacruel provides a number of things for this team, the first being a special wall and good typing, being resistant to both fire and fighting he helps cover some basic weaknesses. The next being a rapid spinner, as Stealth Rock destroys this team more than any set counter. The third is that he can lay down toxic spikes, which helps wear down other weather users and defensive Pokemon, which when coupled with hail not many Pokemon can live very long. I run Knock Off in the last spot for a number of reasons. Defensive Pokemon will often switch into Tenta, and the ability to knock off leftovers under hail is amazing. Knocking off Chansys Eviolite is also very useful, on top of the fact that not many people expect knock off from Tenta for some reason. I run Tentacruel over a different spinner because of the ability to remove toxic spikes just through the switch in. Lastly, Liquid Ooze is used over rain dish as the general strategy against rain is as soon as they bring in Politoed, bring in Abomasnow to not give them any chance to take advantage of the rain and if youve set up Stealth rock as you should have, have them take damage every time they switch in. Therefore, rain dish is not useful with Tentacruel, and liquid ooze helps against Conkeldurr late game If Skarmorys gone, who otherwise might sweep you.

    Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    252 Speed 252 Special Attack 4 Hp
    Modest Nature (+Special A, - Atk)
    Hydro Pump
    Hidden Power [Fire]
    Volt Switch
    Rotom-W is the final member of this team. I always knew I wanted a scarfer, and after testing Latios, Kyurem, and several others I stumbled upon Rotom. Rotom is used mainly because of its excellent typing with little weaknesses. Choice Scarf is used mainly for the ability to revenge kill and hit unexpectedly. Volt Switch is used over Thunderbolt as most Pokemon who are weak to electric are most likely going to switch anyways, and the ability to counter that switch is essential. Modest nature is used over timid as this team does not have trouble with opposing scarfers, and the boost in power is more important to me than outspeeding other Scarfers. HP fire is to deal with those annoying Grass/Steel and Steel/Bug Pokemon, as Steel is a bad type for this team to fight against. The given EV's are fairly self explanitory. Lastly, trick is run to stop special walls from switching in over and over again to Rotom, especially against defensive teams where the speed isn't needed.

    The team has been built to cover many of the Pokemon who gave it trouble, but there are still some that need to be addressed. Taunt Gliscor can be a problem if both Abomasnow and Rotom are gone. Sun teams are especially hard for this team to fight against. Volcarona is a massive pain, and the original reason Gengar was added to help deal with spinners clearing away my rocks. Tornadus can be a huge pain as none of my special walls resist flying, but Rotom+Ice Shard+Stealth Rocks normally take care of him. Spin blockers are also a major threat as Stealth Rocks is Abomasnows biggest weakness.
  2. Nails

    Nails Plot Armor.
    is a Battle Server Moderatoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a defending World Cup of Pokemon champion

    May 14, 2010
    Huge weakness to special stuff. You rely on endeavor or one (obvious) trick user or your suicide lead to block calm mind reuniclus. Calm minding latias and latios, given stealth rock support, can really hurt your team, especially if they happen to be carrying psyshock, and both can set up against any of rotom's attacks. Similarly, unless i'm missing something, you lack a switch into choice specs latios's draco meteor. Skarm is always 2hkoed without sr support. Abomasnow has a chance to be ohkoed after sr, tentacruel is always 2hkoed with sr, and nothing else stands a chance. A scizor set with pursuit helps to solve the issue of calm minding foes, something like this though you could always play around with the set.

    Scizor (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bullet Punch
    - U-turn
    - Pursuit
    - Roost

    The set is a standard trapper set with roost and leftovers to try to heal off damage from hail and draco meteors. A standard choice band set would work well too. It shouldn't be your first switch into latios due to hidden power fires, but after it's used draco meteors it can ensure a revenge kill which is better than anything you currently have on it.

    The issue is replacing a team member. The only pokemon that's really replacable is mamoswine, and you can use stealth rock over brave bird or spikes on skarmory to avoid losing stealth rock on the team.

    Volcarona and Conkeldurr also give this team pretty big issues. Volcarona can force a switch on abomasnow or skarmory and set up +1, and at that point th only thing that can tnak an attack is tentacruel, who is set up bait. Conkeldurr can set up +1 against a switching abomasnow and then knock a decent chuck out of skarm's health before you can phaze it. This is a relatively easy fix, run clear smoghaze over knock off on tentacruel. Yes, losing knock off sucks, but with hail damage and scald it allows you to effectively stall out both.

    Congrats on #1
  3. Rewer

    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Mar 15, 2009
    As Nails said before, special hits from like Specs Latios will wear this team quick, also Tornadous, CM Reuniclus and these kind of stuff. I'd give SpDef Rachi a shot:

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    236 HP, 40 Def, 232 SDef
    ~ Fire Punch
    ~ Iron Head
    ~ Body Slam
    ~ Wish

    This solves your Reuniclus issues, gives you a swich-in for Latios and it's a great special sponge overall. Replacing someone is indeed, a problem. Mamo must be pretty sweet if they lead with like Politoad, who gets to 1HP then dies to hail damage when aboma switchs in. I'd give it a shot over Rotom. What exactly are you revenge killing with him that you can't save mamo for. If you feel you lose too much "revenge killing" power make aboma a scarf variant but I don't think thats needed. Also, you could make your aboma a subpuncher sets. A few pepole expect it, and you can get ttar off guard with that lol. Better use fire punch last slot else CM Jira is 6-0 xD

    Helping with volca weakness and also tran, you could give Jellicent a shot over Gengar:

    Jellicent @ Leftovers
    248 HP, 216 Def, 44 Spe/SpD
    ~Taunt / Shadow Ball

    Since you're cutting Rotom-W off the team for Jirachi, a Jellicent would be cool. It checks Infernape, who else could 6-0 you with out Rotom-W. Also it's a good Volcarona check, and spin blocker. Taunt it's optional since you don't have to worry about spiking on him: you have cruel to spin anyway. Shadow ball is an option to revenge kill better Starmie, and Toxic is here to deal with Volcarona, outstalling him. The EVs are from analysis but if you use Shadow Ball there's no need for Speed imo.

    Congrats on the peak, and gl! =]
  4. BTzz

    BTzz spams overhand rights
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    May 22, 2011
    HP Ground Volcarona will give you a lot of trouble and Mamoswine isn't doing much for your team. I recommend using Balloon Heatan over Mamo. Heatran @ Balloon | 4 HP 252 SAtk / 252 Spd | Modest | HP Ice | Fire Blast | Earth Power | Stealth Rock. Heatran does a couple things for youe team. He sponges fire attacks for Abomosnow and he gives you a reliable way of dealing with Volcarona and Excadrill.

    Edit: congratz on the peak!
  5. BKC

    BKC Why are you such a stupid asshole?
    is a Tutoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 16 Championis a defending World Cup of Pokemon champion

    May 22, 2010
    Nails mentioned how you struggle against special attackers (namely Lati@s and Volcarona) and you've outlined your pretty nasty weakness to sun teams. How about using a specially defensive Heatran over Mamoswine? It's a great counter to all of these threats, provides SR so you don't have to drop a moveslot on Skarmory, and fits in with the defensive theme of the team, unlike Mamo (you don't want a frail Focus Sash attacker when the overall focus is on bulk and longevity).

    Heatran @ Leftovers | Calm | EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
    Stealth Rock | Lava Plume | Roar | Protect

    Unfortunately, Reuniclus is still threatening. This can be fixed with a simple item change to Life Orb on Gengar. This means Shadow Ball will still do a ton of damage even when Reu has set up a Calm Mind - if you take Nails's Haze Tentacruel suggestion, it won't even have +1. It also means you'll take more recoil damage each turn, allowing you to steal more HP from your opponent when you use Pain Split. If this change doesn't appeal to you, simply keep Rotom alive and Trick off your Scarf once Reuniclus is the last Pokemon, and beat it down then.

    Congrats on #1, good luck with the team.
  6. Wolfey

    VGC 2016 Masters Champion

    Jul 7, 2009
    @ Nails: I agree with you that I definitely need something to take special hits. However, Im not sure that Mamoswine is the Pokemon to replace. I might take out Rotom W for that Scizzor you suggested, as he can use priority bullet punch could work as a revenger of sorts. Ill test it out. And I dont see how Haze Stops Volcarona, there still hitting me for hard damage and Tenta can't even 2hko some Volcarona, Ill be swept by it.
    @ Rewer: I actually tested both of those Pokemon (I ran protect over fire punch and Hail over taunt), and I really liked Rachi, Jelly not as much I just didn't know how to fit Rachi in. Might a specially defensive Scizzor work over Rachi, maybe the one that nails suggested? And also tenta stops Nape solid, so I wont get swept by him as I used to have a huge weakness to him (most nape dont run EQ)
    @ Brizznetz: I tested this heatran but I didnt like it very much truthfully, and a Volcarona would just bug buzz after a quiver dance when I brought tran in, break baloon and kill me
  7. Wolfey

    VGC 2016 Masters Champion

    Jul 7, 2009
    BKC: Ive tested Heatran and I will again, but with Heatran over Mamoswine I lose a few things, first I only have one physical attacker outside of mamo and thats Skarms brave bird, so thats already an issue VS. the Pink Blobs. Secondly, I lose my focus sash which is very nice both early and late game. I also lose my ground immunity, which was nice to have against rotoms locked into volt switch. My weakness to sun and Volcarona have gone down a bit because of spin blocking SR removal, and although LO on gengar could help against reuniclus it makes it to easily stalled out against most everything else, when you consider every turn your taking LO damage and hail.
  8. Wolfey

    VGC 2016 Masters Champion

    Jul 7, 2009

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