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Frozen in the Snow

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by TheTsBasic, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. TheTsBasic

    TheTsBasic

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2012
    Messages:
    17
    FROZEN
    in the Snow

    Building Phase:
    I started from Abomasnow and Kyurem because he can spam his strong Blizzard with 100% accuracy and do great damage to many pokemon.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Then I added Heatran and Tentacruel. Basically I need Heatran to resist to draco meteors (especially from Latios) while Tentacruel is fondamental to spin away the rocks that are a real problem and to resist to Scizor's Bullet Punch and other priorities
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    For last I added Scizor and Latios to try to "counter" Terrakion that was a threat
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    As last step I replaced Kyurem with a more offensive Kyurem-B (that was Uber when I built the first version of the team) and Scizor with Landorus-t to better counter Terrakion
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    At a glance:

    [​IMG]
    Abomasnow (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Leech Seed
    - Ice Shard
    - Wood Hammer
    - Protect
    I chose the annoyer set when Genesect was still OU and that helped me a lot with it. I find this set very useful especially because of Leech Seed + Protect that allows me to recover for example the damage of steath rocks if I lose Tentacruel. Max atk to revengekill dragons and wood hammer is very useful against enemy politoeds.
    Maybe the ebelter set will work better.





    [​IMG]
    Kyurem (Kyurem-B) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 56 HP / 216 Atk / 236 Spd
    Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
    - Substitute
    - Dragon Claw
    - Blizzard
    - Fusion Bolt

    A beast. With the substitute + 3 attacks set, I gain a great offensive power against rain teams, because I can freely setup a sub in front of a politoed or a tentacruel and start destroying the enemy's team. His speed grants me to outspeed a great amount of pokemon, but the his power is considerably lowered. His main problems are Mamoswine (but behind substitute is easy to kill) and Breloom (god, I hate that thing...).




    [​IMG]
    Tentacruel (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Rain Dish / Liquid Ooze
    EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Protect
    - Rapid Spin
    - Toxic Spikes / Toxic
    - Scald
    Standard set with decent bulk. It allows me to spin on scizor and company. I'm not sure if run rain dish to recover in rain or liquid ooze to stop leech seed ferrothorn. With Toxic Spikes and Toxic is the same: the first would allow me to poison more pokemon but toxic is useful to counter jellicent and other buly waters.




    [​IMG]
    Heatran (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Toxic
    - Roar
    - Protect
    - Lava Plume

    He's really bulky too. I choiced this set with raters' advices and I can say that it works really well. With Roar, it allows me to phaze disturbing threats like SubCMLatias or SubCMRachi, that are very dangerous to this team. Also, with Lava Plume, I can burn (if I am lucky) dangerous threats hitting them in predict.




    [​IMG]
    Landorus-T (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 200 HP / 64 Atk / 244 Def
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Stone Edge
    - U-turn
    - Earthquake
    Very good bulk. With Intimidate he can enter on almost all physical sweepers and counter them. Very useful to counter Terrakion and Scizor. Stealth rocks help me to take down the enemy and start Kyurem's sweep. Earthquake is for steel types and terrakion while stone edge is for dragon types that are locked into outrage (at -1 they don't do much damage)




    [​IMG]
    Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Trick
    - Psyshock
    - Draco Meteor
    - Surf
    Originally it was specsed but I preferred to run the scarfer set to have a good revengekiller. With this set i can outspeed everything but kill jirachi is way difficult. Draco Meteor and Psyshock are the main stab (psyshock takes down special walls like chansey or blissey). Trick is to lock slower opponents in status moves and surf preferred to hpfire to kill volcarona that is a problem for my team.

    Threat list will arrive soon...

    ETT:
    Show Hide
    Abomasnow (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Leech Seed
    - Ice Shard
    - Wood Hammer
    - Protect

    Kyurem (Kyurem-B) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 56 HP / 216 Atk / 236 Spd
    Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
    - Substitute
    - Dragon Claw
    - Blizzard
    - Fusion Bolt

    Heatran (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Toxic
    - Roar
    - Protect
    - Lava Plume

    Tentacruel (M) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Liquid Ooze
    EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Protect
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Scald

    Landorus-T (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 200 HP / 64 Atk / 244 Def
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Stone Edge
    - U-turn
    - Earthquake

    Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Trick
    - Psyshock
    - Draco Meteor
    - Surf
  2. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    565
    yo there!

    Nice team you have there, i like aboma because its cool, so ill give you some suggestions. First, your team struggles in general against Latios and latias, mainly because your only steel lacks of any hp investiments. I think your Heatran in general should be changed, im not really sure if heatran appreciates the damages of the hail in combination with the sub, this set probably works better under sand. Also, without roar or hp ice either you are not going to anything to others dragons, for sure you have others way to deal with them but still i think your steel should be able to beat DDnite or the likes. So, the set i would suggest you is the standard Special defensive Heatran with Lava plume / Toxic / Roar / Protect | Earthpower and a spread of 252 Hp / 252 Spd / 4 Spe with a calm nature. Lava plume is better than fire blast on defensive Heatran, because it can burn stuff like Tentacruel or Politoed, and roar will help you phazing stuff like Sub Calm mind Latios, calm mind Jirachi or volcarona. You can choose protect if you want to check choiced pokemon and to regain health if there isnt hail up, or heatran to catch other heatran or stuff like Tentacruel. The bulk is really appreciated in general since you are weak to Latios, and this will let you have some more switchs.

    The other thing i would try here is an another set for Kyurem-b. While choice band clearly destroys everything, i think your team can benefit more from the Sub+3 attacks Kyurem. Something like Substitute / Fusion bolt / Blizzard / Outrage | Dragon clawn with the same spread and a-def +atk nature is what you should try. Outrage and dragon claw are both usable, i prefer dragon claw to avoid being locked. The reason why im suggesting this is that choiced kyurem does not take advantage of his resistances, like water, grass, and eletric, who are usefull against rain teams. In this way you can sub against Politoed, Tentacruel and all the other things that cant break the sub and wreak things. In this way you are lesser weak to status and revenge kill, since with cb kyurem once you click on Outrage and you get a kill, you are probably losing it due to Terrakion/scizor/breloom whatever else. You can also try roost instead of ice beam if you want to keep toxic spikes on tentacruel, this will let you ppstall some things and it would be nice.
  3. dice

    dice RAP GAME GiTTARACKUR
    is a Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Arcade Star

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,055
    Hey!

    Nice team. It's very refreshing to see a Hail team in such a Rain and Sand infested metagame. Surprisingly, there are very few noticable problems I see with your team, so I won't be recommending much. One of the most prominent problems I can see with your team, however, is the lack of a good status absorber. Nothing on your team want to tank a Scald, and nothing on your team can switch into a Scald or set up on a Scald user. Because of this, I'd just use a Mixed Sub Kyurem-B. Mixed Sub Kyurem-B can abuse Hail unlike your current Kyurem which makes it a cool poke to use. A set of Substitute / Blizzard / Fusion Bolt / Dragon Claw @ Leftovers with EV's of 56 HP / 216 Atk / 236 Spe with a Hasty Nature should work well. Teravolt allows you to do some cool things like hit Mamoswine with Blizzard without it resisting it and even hit the amazing Marvel Scale Milotic! /lol/ The EV's give it 405 HP Substitutes and enough speed to outspeed Mamoswine and co. I recommend a -Def nature because you want to set up on Scalds and most Physical priority is going to kill you anyways. I also recommend moving 12 EV's from HP on Abomasnow to speed to outspeed 0 Speed Tyranitar. Good luck.
  4. Funkasaurus

    Funkasaurus i know what is next, but you won't believe me
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2011
    Messages:
    668
    Hi there,

    Nice hail team. It seems to be built solidly without any glaring weaknesses, which is a good thing. With that said, here are some things that you could consider. First off, in my experience, I found that Tentacruel on a non-rain team is pretty unreliable. While it may be excellent against one opponent, it may not be very effective against another. Without reliable recovery, in hail, it will not able to survive very long to remove the hazards that would otherwise injure your team greatly. With that said, I recommend using a bulky Starmie over Tentacruel. Like Tentacruel, Starmie can Rapid Spin and hit the opponent with STAB Scalds, and burn if you're lucky enough. You lose out of the ability to set up Toxic Spikes, however, the needed recovery can prove to be quite helpful. Also, you get a coverage move like Psyshock which is helpful in hitting things Scald can't such as Toxicroak and Breloom, which Tentacruel can be set up bait against.

    Next, I recommend reverting your Latios' item back Choice Specs / Life Orb. I find that using a Choice Scarf on Latios ultimately isn't the best item for it. While with a Choice Scarf, you outspeed things like Choice Scarf Terrakion / Keldeo or Modest Venusaur, your team can handle those Pokemon with relative ease. Starmie handles Keldeo. Terrakion is handled by Landorus-T / Starmie. And Modest Venusaur, Heatran. Latios' potential is being wasted as a Choice Scarfer since what it's used to outspeed are handled by other team members. With Choice Specs / Life Orb, the damage output will be quite noticeable. Like Choice Scarf, you can Trick your Specs to cripple a certain threat. Or with Life Orb, you can switch moves and still hit pretty hard. Either can help put holes in the opponent's team, which is something a Choice Scarf Latios cannot do.

    Next, I'd recommend changing Kyurem-B's item to Choice Scarf to compensate for the loss of a Choice Scarfer. However, Choice Scarf Salamence could do the same job as a Choice Scarf Kyurem-B, but better. With Moxie and a Choice Scarf, a Salamence has the potential to sweep late game. Although you lose the hard hitting monster in Kyurem-B, you'll have a hard hitter in Choice Specs / Life Orb Latios which will fulfill the same purpose.


    Sets (open)

    Latios
    Choice Scarf --> Choice Specs / Life Orb

    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 248 HP / 44 SAtk / 216 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Psyshock
    - Recover
    - Rapid Spin

    Salamence (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Outrage
    - Dragon Claw
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast


    With these changes said, great team and good luck.
  5. TheTsBasic

    TheTsBasic

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2012
    Messages:
    17
    @neliel: (sei castform, giusto?) I tried the Kyurem-B's set you suggested and it's very nice but it lose so much power. Blizzard allows me to hit more threats like landorus (if I have the substitute on) and mamoswine too. Specially defensive Heatran is nice too but with that spread Scizor becomes a great problem and facing it when landorus dies it's very hard (impossible, i would say)

    @princess bri: same as above, thanks for your suggestion ^^

    @funkasaurus: I tried all of your sets and my team loses too much offesive. This is an offensive team and it has some problems with stall teams and the changes you suggested make me weaker to that type of team: Salamence only does 50% to blissey that can ppstall me with softboiled and I can't kill her in any way because neither latios can deal with it. Starmie is a nice and fast rapid spinner but it's too weak and in particular it is completely destroyed by scizor (like many other pokemons of my team)
  6. Funkasaurus

    Funkasaurus i know what is next, but you won't believe me
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2011
    Messages:
    668
    Where do I start? You say your team "loses too much offensive." Ok, Starmie is doing more damage than Tentacruel would ever and Life Orb / Specs Latios does more than any Scarf variant would ever. With that said, you aren't losing any offensive prowess. If anything, you are gaining it.

    Moving on, with Choice Scarf Salamence, you say it isn't pulling its weight. Ok, let's analyze that. If you refer to the second quote in this post, it says "With Moxie and a Choice Scarf, a Salamence has the potential to sweep late game." I bolded the part you should be reading. Sweeping late game. What does that mean? Well, it means you should not be bringing your Salamence in on a full hit points Blissey and expect it to kill. You should be using your other five team members to wither down the opposition in order for Salamence to sweep through with Dragon Claw, Outrage, Earthquake, what have you. With that said, it's not Moxie Mence not pulling its weight, it's misuse of it.

    You say Starmie and the rest of your team is beaten by Scizor. I'm not sure that you notice that you have a Landorus-Therian and a Heatran on your team. They can handle Scizor with relative ease; I don't see the issue here. You shouldn't be going for the Scald burn on Scizor as you don't need to. You have two perfectly good checks to it in Heatran and Landorus-T.

    Just a few things to consider.
  7. FallenFoliage

    FallenFoliage

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2007
    Messages:
    37
    Awesome team! I like the elemental hail and solidity of it altogether.

    I'm gonna go ahead and second Funkasauras' advice, as the proper use of Salamence is gonna give you a lot more offensive in exchange for a slightly different gameplay with your team. I've swapped Starmie for Tenta before and it has opened a Scizor weakness, but I don't think this is the case on your team. Of course, you want to have as many Scizor switch-ins as possible, but Heatran and Landorus already do a great job keeping it at bay, and it's not going to like switching in to Starmie's scalds anyway.
    - You'll lose some defense against Scizor, but Tenta had a lot on its hands anyway, and from the read I see its main job is to be able to constantly spin, not to fend off Scizors.

    I hope you can do some more testing and just change up the method a little, as I can see this improving your teams loads. Good luck!
    -Luvdic'd for the originality.
  8. TheTsBasic

    TheTsBasic

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2012
    Messages:
    17
    Added changes in red. Now, with the Tornadus-T ban, the main problem is Breloom (in particoular the Techniloom set) but Gengar is really hard to kill, too.

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