FU Viability Rankings

[Gary]

I think you're dramatically underrating defiant. Despite persian's physical set being a little better in terms of damage output and speed, purugly provides important pressure for hazard reliant teams since defog is one of the most common forms of removal. Considering that besides this the differences in their physical sets are largely minor such a disparity in ranking isn't representative of its actual viability- I'd choose physical purugly over physical persian any time the team really likes hazard support, which isn't a rare occurrence at all.

The issue with Purugly is that Defiant rarely comes into play enough for it to be useful. Think about all of the common Defoggers in the tier that we have and how Purugly can't really switch reliably into any of them. Swanna just clicks Hurricane and Purugly dies. Vullaby just clicks Foul Play and 2HKOs it on the switch or Knocks it off and makes it a hell of a lot weaker. The only Defogger that's left is Vibrava, which it can kind of switch into, but if it predicts you and goes for EQ then you're 2HKOed and Purugly can't OHKO back. It's nothing like Bisharp in OU which can switch into some of the most common Defoggers in the tier and proceed to trap them/immensly pressure those kind of teams. Purugly can help hazard stack teams apply more pressure, but most Defoggers just don't give a damn about it and Purugly shitty bulk/lack of resistances keeps it from being able to pressure the common defoggers. Wigglytuff may be slow, but it has the coveted Fairy-typing as well as decent natural bulk which allows it to eat up hits from the defoggers and either OHKO them or force them to Defog. To me, it just seems like the better Pokemon to have on hazard stack thanks to its wide movepool and typing.

Purugly was VERY good in a Sticky Web meta because of how good webs were and how easy it was for it to grab a +2 boost. Prinplup was also a very common Defogger, and Purugly could avoid the 2HKO from Scald and pressure it much more than any of the Defoggers we have now. In the current meta, Intimidate Krok is about the only thing that will commonly activate its ability, but most good teams wont rely on Krok as their check to Purugly. I find myself just using Persian a LOT more on hazard stack teams because of how hard it is to switch into boosted Fake Outs with hazards up. As it stands in the meta now, Purugly's attributes and heavy reliance on an ability which rarely comes into play in order to separate itself from Persian just doesn't make it that great of an option on most teams.

 

[Skankovich]

It's not just about being able to switch in safely, it's about the pressure Defiant provides. Look at Pawniard in PU- it doesn't switch into Pelipper's scald, Vibrava's earthquake or Swanna, but it's still a good choice to discourage defog (and as a general good offensive mon ofc). Purugly's presence alone discourages the use of the move while it still does basically the same thing persian does. Not only that, but Wigglytuff isn't exactly a safe switch into the defoggers outside of vullaby either- swanna kills both (purugly is 1hko'd by hurricane but wiggly is outsped anyway, so the outcome is the same) and Vibrava doesn't 2hko either of them without rocks. Besides that though I don't think they're especially comparable, wigglytuff is more of a wallbreaker once boosted while purugly has more of a chance to sweep or clean with its much higher speed, different teams will require different things.

Yeah defiant isn't something that always comes into play explicitly, but the pressure it provides even when it doesn't is important. Besides this it still largely does the same thing persian does but a bit worse, and so I think the B rank it was in previously is fine.

 

[Yuelia]

So here's a full list of FU-legal (based on this) fully evolved Pokemon that aren't currently ranked:

Hide

Ariados
Beautifly
Bibarel
Carnivine
Castform
Cherrim
Corsola
Delcatty
Dewgong
Dunsparce
Farfetch'd
Gourgeist-N
Hypno
Kricketune
Ledian
Lunatone
Luvdisc
Maractus
Masquerain
Meganium
Minun
Pachirisu
Parasect
Phione
Plusle
Spinda
Stantler
Sunflora
Tropius
Vespiquen
Wailord
Wobbuffet
Wormadam
Wormadam-Sandy

(Yeah, I was bored, what can I say.)

To be fair, most of these are unviable, but there are a few major exceptions - Gigalith, Luxray, and Sawsbuck were the main ones that stood out to me while I was making this, but there might be a few in there that I missed since it's been eons since I've actually played FU.

[list edited to reflect OP updates]

 

[Skankovich]

All three of those were PU for a while- sawsbuck was only here briefly at the beginning of the tier, luxray tends to fluctuate between PU and FU sporadically while Gigalith only rose last shift due to the nature of mid ladder PU.

They've dropped back down this shift though, and so can be ranked again.

 

[Gary]

I'm going to be pretty busy most of this week at least until like Friday so I'll try to see when I can update this later.

 

[Gary]

Update time! All of the Pokemon that rose to PU have been removed from the VR, and now I will begin adding the newly dropped Pokemon to the rankings. Most of them have been FU before, so not much testing will be needed to put them in their initial rankings:

---> A-: Gigalith was always a very solid Pokemon for its ability to check many threats as well as being one of the most reliable Stealth Rock setters before Stunfisk came around. Now that Gigalith is back, not much has really changed for it, so I see no reason to put it back in A-. It's still a fantastic Custap Pokemon with a very powerful boom boom that can pick off most Pokemon found on offense while heavily denting anything else. Its SpD set is also very bulky on both sides, allowing it to set up SR multiple times throughout the match.

---> A+: Marinara was also a top tier threat when it was around a long time ago, and while the meta has adapted to beating offensive Grass-types pretty well thanks to Simicyook, that extra Normal-typing that Sawsbuck carries allows it to smack around Poison-types such as Swalot, Whirlipede, and Viper a lot harder than Simicyook can. It also sits at a very good Speed tier of 95, and while it wishes it were higher (being outsped by Raticate and Swanna sucks for it) it's fast enough to where it can take on a large majority of the offensive metagame. It can run a very threatening SD set, as well as being a potent revenge killer with Scarf, putting it above the Simis. Sun Sawsbuck on the other hand is incredible, and probably makes Buck an S rank threat alone, but the council and I are discussing what to do with sun itself, as it seems that anytime we get a new Chlorophyll sweeper in FU, it always seems to be unmanageable.

---> B+/B: Meowstic-M is a fantastic supporter that works very well on offensive teams thanks to its access to priority Dual Screens as well as an emergency check to sweepers with T-wave. Meowstic-F is an overall mediocre Psychic-type that faces competition from Swoobat, but it has a very interesting movepool which allows it to check a decent amount of Pokemon, an outstanding Speed tier that puts it above the Simis, and its ability allows it to be an annoying thorn in the side of teams that depend on Vibrava, Swanna, and even Vullaby to an extent, as it can grab a potential +2 from them.

---> B+: A better Illumise.

---> B+: A strong physical attacker that can run a few cool sets such as CB, Scarf, and Guts. Intimidate is a really good ability that allows it to come in a lot more often.

S ---> S+: It's safe to say that with Stunfisk gone, MLK is a LOT harder to prepare for, and wont be as easy as just slapping Fisk on all your teams like before. Now Buzz can now more freely run moves such as Focus Blast, Signal Beam, or even T-wave over Toxic because its #1 check is gone and a lot of Pokemon that are used to check it such as Bob Saget, Evio Krok, and SpD Gigalith, are all weak to Focus Blast and or Signal Beam.

 

[Dundies]

Gonna make a few quick nominations on two mons I feel are really underrated

--> A-
Scraggy has surprisingly really good bulk when fully invested, and it can clean through teams late game with ease. Bulk Up + Rest along with Shed Skin is so amazing (it's basically like Scald, it works like every turn) and in a tier with few Fairy- or Fighting-types, Scraggy finds a lot of opportunities to set up late-game, as well as weakening and crippling foes with Knock Off mid-game. While Scraggy loses to most of the higher ranks without any boosts, it still easily sets up on a lot of mons.

--> B+
While Swalot isn't that great in this current meta, its amazing movepool of attacking and support moves as well as its ability to check a lot of threats in the tier (cough cough Simicyook) are enough reason to rank this at B+. It can threaten a ton of mons in the current meta with all of its coverage moves, take on physical attackers with Counter, and stay healthy with Pain Split, while also discouraging setup with Encore.

 

[Gary]

This is in need of an update:

S- ---> A+: Quillidan is still a very solid spiker, and quillfense in general will always be potent. However, I would say that lately thanks to our good friend Simicyook, Whirlipede is being considered a lot more often on heavy/bulky offense because of its ability to set up Spikes in the face one of the biggest douche bags in the tier. Quill just invites Simicyook to a free switch-in, and seeing as how offense rarely has a RELIABLE switch into Simicyook, it should come to no surprise why Whirlipede can be so damn useful. Sawsbuck can also be a bitch for it as well, because without Roar or Drain Punch Buck can just set up all over Qullidan, whereas before Quill could get away with running just Taunt + Wood Hammer.

S- ---> A+: With Murkrow dropping, the S- sub rank has been abolished for now. Krow has been A+ for a long time in my eyes, but I just never bothered dropping it because I haven't used it enough myself recently to properly judge. Its previously best set, bulky CM, has gotten a LOT better with fisk and Rampardos leaving, although Gigalith coming back has hurt it quite a bit, and now Buzz is on every team again so it's hard pressed to set up. Life Orb is still good, but its Speed tier is unfortunate with Buck being faster and Sucker not killing without significant prior damage. Rock-types in general are just so annoying for Krow at the moment, and it's not nearly as successful at pressuring teams these days. It could go back up in the future, but for now, it's not on par with Sear or even a few of the things in A+ right now.

B+ ---> A-: A very good sweeper that's so damn bulky it can set up on like half the meta, and its typing is amazing offensively. Most teams are so damn weak to this little shit, and outside of hard checks like Tuff or Spritzee, there isn't a LOT of things that can reliably check this mofo once it sets up a boost or two.

B ---> B+: A phat piece of shit that never dies and wall the living fuck out of Simicyook and friends. AV can eat up hits from a +2 Sear as well as being able to pivot into Buzz and Butterfree to an extent. Its movepool is very good as well, so it can be tailored to fit your team. Pain Split sucks ffs quit using it. A mon with base 100 HP aint going to be healing shit off in a tier where base 80 HP is considered decently high.

B+ ---> B: Many of you probably didn't even know Solrock is FU. Yeah I forget too lol, but it's not a terrible mon at all. However, with all the recent shifts going on such as Simicyook getting a ton of usage, Water-types such as Duck, Swanna, Toed, and Huntail being very good, Zweilous rising in viabilty, and Arbok leaving which took away its biggest niche of walling one of the best Pokemon in the metagame, Solrock is just not as useful as it once was. It's still a cool check to Gabite, Shelgon, Gigalith, Fearow, but as a defensive AND offensive Rock-type, I'd much rather be using Lairon or Gigalith most of the time. However, if you happen to be weak to everything I Just listed, then Solrock is still a great option, and it has plenty of niches on some teams.

B ---> C+: Venipede doesn't outspeed anything too relevant that can outspeed and Taunt it, and the only real reason to use it is as a lead on offense seeing how it can outspeed the simis and shit after +1, while Whirl can't. Still, Whirls bulk is very useful and I'd much rather have a more reliable spiker than Veni. The opportunity cost of using it over Whirl even on offense just doesn't seem like enough to keep it so high. C+ seems fine for it, as it can still function like whirl on HO but without the ability to check Simicyook and others Grass-types.

A few other things were changed in the lower ranks that I don't feel like pointing out because they're too small for most of you to care anyway. Also whoever was the fuck that PMed me telling me that I'm retarded for having Watchog in E rank because it pairs well with Cate, go fuck yourself. Low Kick isn't enough to save its ass from mediocrity when Marinara exists and can Jump Kick Lairon/Klang into the ground. Seriously though, there is literally no reason to use Watchog unless you want to use like offensive Hypnosis or some shit. Maybe if Deer leaves FU than Watchog can be D or something, but I'd still rather use like Drain Punch Regi or even special Persian as a better Normal mon to use alongside Cate. Muh Analytic Low Kick. Fuck off lol.

 

[Joe Career]

So I noticed Stantler isn't ranked. I was curious as to why, thought it might be PU, but it actually has enough usage to be FU. I'm not sure if it has been mentioned or not, but I'd like to talk a bit about it.

Stantler is sort of a physical counterpart to Girafarig (it has very similar stats, and although it lacks Psychic STAB and a strong Hyper Voice), but you'll must likely see it as a weaker Sawsbuck (slower and lacking Swords Dance and STAB Horn Leech). However, Stantler has a very useful ability in Intimidate and access to priority in Sucker Punch.
What makes Stantler stand out from the other Intimidate users (Luxray and Krokorok) is the ability to put some pressure on the opponent with its STAB Double Edge (the other two users lack an amazing STAB as this one) and Sucker Punch. Stanler can also spread status with Thunder Wave, and can pull off a mixed set with its surprising special movepool. It does have its issues namely the speed tier and the inability to take many hits.
I might edit this post later to add some calculations.

For these reasons, I think Stantler is worth of being B- rank.

This is my first post ever on these forums, having been a lurker for a long time, so I'm sorry if my post seems to lack more information. I really just want to put Stantler back on the map and give it some mentioning. Also, excuse me if my English sucks.

 

[Venoxio]

Yay, a nomination! This may be a weird one but...

Frogaider for B+ Rank

Yes, yes, some of you may be thinking, "What? Most top-tier mons destroy or outclass this thing!" Well, I don't think that is the truth. Frogaider has a great ability in Protean, and many coverage options to go along with it. That means it has almost zero reliable switch-ins. Ice Beam and Gunk Shot kill Grass and Fairy types. Grass Knot hurts Grounds and Waters, which is especially good since there is an abundance of the latter in the tier. (Not to mention most ground types have water as a side typing with the main exceptions being Krokorok and Gabite.) It also has other options such as HP Fire, Dark Pulse, and HP Electric to hit some obscure Pokemon. Frogaider also has a good speed tier, outspeeding most high-rank mons (not the S Ranks) and speed-tying with Raticate. It does have faults, such as it's frailty, but I think it is deserving of B+ rank.

EDIT: Toxic Spikes

 

[Gary]

Yay, a nomination! This may be a weird one but...

Frogaider for B+ Rank

Yes, yes, some of you may be thinking, "What? Most top-tier mons destroy or outclass this thing!" Well, I don't think that is the truth. Frogaider has a great ability in Protean, and many coverage options to go along with it. That means it has almost zero reliable switch-ins. Ice Beam and Gunk Shot kill Grass and Fairy types. Grass Knot hurts Grounds and Waters, which is especially good since there is an abundance of the latter in the tier. (Not to mention most ground types have water as a side typing with the main exceptions being Krokorok and Gabite.) It also has other options such as HP Fire, Dark Pulse, and HP Electric to hit some obscure Pokemon. Frogaider also has a good speed tier, outspeeding most high-rank mons (not the S Ranks) and speed-tying with Raticate. It does have faults, such as it's frailty, but I think it is deserving of B+ rank.

ctrl F Toxic Spikes: No results

If you're not using Frog for T-spikes, than you really shouldn't be using it at all. Its extra Speed is nice and Protean is cool I guess, but outside of those things, it really doesn't have much over Toed, Swanna, or Duck. Toed is bulky as fuck, hits harder, and has an ability which allows it to pretty much hard counter an entire playstyle. It also has some great utility with Encore and Perish. Duck can destroy offense with its Rain Dance sets and just hits really hard in general. Swanna is practically impossible to switch into and provides valuable hazard removing support which is very hard to come by in FU. Froggy's extra coverage doesn't really come into play that often considering all a Water-type really needs to survive in this tier, is something to hits Grass-types and opposing bulky Water-types with. T-Spikes Frog is a cool set that I've used often on offensive teams as Frog itself is a pretty cool Pokemon cause it can hit hard and is hard to switch into, adding on top of the fact that whatever wants to switch into it bar Swalot is probably T-spike bait.

But yeah, I agree that Frog is a pretty underrated Pokemon and MAYBE could be moved up in the future if more people started using it, but with Whirl around T-spikes isn't nearly as hard to come by any more, and there are plenty of good Water-types to go around. Besides, your nom failed to recognize Frog's true niche in this meta, so no, I cannot say that it is has convinced me to raise up Frog anytime soon.

 

[Kushalos]

Can we rank Trapinch in C+ bitte schon jaja

 

[Froggyboy]

Can we please call Pokemon like Simisage by their actual names? Saying Zwelious is Bob Saget is not only confusing to newer players, but it's just not funny.

 

[Skankovich]

I agree that it's not a big deal, but it does make the tier come across as closed and clique-y in a way, which isn't ideal for a meta so in need of players. With this being rude to the players doesn't help either, but whatever.

Anyway I have some noms:

Mienfoo Unranked -> B/B+
A ridiculously hard-hitting scarfer that takes advantage of how under-prepared many teams of the tier are for fighting moves. 1hkos most frailer offensive mons like the Simis off the bat and the bulkier ones like Buzz with 2 rounds of rocks and its speed tier lets it outspeed Persian, unlike Meditite. Also over Meditite it has u-turn giving momentum mid-game and knock off to cripple some switchins. I know Tect has used a bulky pivot regen set to some success too, but I don't know much about it myself. Have some replays:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pu-259381339 vs. Kingler - After getting rocks up Mienfoo kills the 5 remaining mons
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pu-253593558 vs. RawMelon - Here I all I had to do was weaken Stunfisk (ya its old meta but still) and Swanna first before Mienfoo could sweep
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pu-255662780 vs. MaroGodd - No big sweeps here, but as a scarfer grabs some momentum early game and cleans up at the end

Dewgong Unranked -> B-
I remember someone mentioning this mon in the old thread and thinking it sounded cool, and in trying it out its actually an ok cleaner. Thanks to its combo of Ice Shard and Aqua Jet it hits a large variety of mons in the tier super effectively with priority, including 7 of the 9 S to A+ mons, which is pretty impressive. With a decent enough defensive typing, bulk and ability it can switch in with relative ease and is difficult to take out with neutral hits. It needs a layer of spikes and rocks at least to net most of the kills, and also a way to remove water types, but its overall a pretty nice mon that deserves a rank- the main issue is that Murkrow's neutral sucker punch hits just as hard as Dewgong's super effective priority, but not worrying about status/sub, and different offensive STABs give it a niche.

Only one replay here, I've got another two that aren't working for some reason though, just showing a blank screen.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pu-251332662 vs. GrimoireGod

Floette to replace Spritzee (Or to go to B and Spritzee to move down)

Floette has significantly less physical bulk but it has enough to do exactly what you want a phys def fairy type to do- deal with Zweilous and Scraggy, mainly. My issue with Spritzee has been the combination of relying on wish and eviolite, leaving it very easily worn down and pressured by strategies such as double switching and even just general offensive pressure. Floette meanwhile has synthesis, letting it act as a calm mind wincon while doing its normal fairy stuff, and it also leaves it less pressured by say, switchins that set up. For example, Simisear is a common switchin to both, but when put into a situation where either would need to heal up to continue to check what they need to, Spritzee would be forced to let Simi set up a nasty plot just to do so.

I've just never really found the situation where I value Spritzee's extra physical bulk over Floette's greater power, great special bulk and instant recovery. I suppose if you wanted a murkrow switchin Spritzee could be worth it, or if you actually needed it as a wishpasser, so perhaps it should just move down, but I'd definitely recommend Floette the large majority of the time.

Also re-iterating requests for Gourgeist-L -> B+ and Furfrou -> B from previous posts, gourgeist-L especially is just so good right now.

 

[Gary]

Okay so this is probably gonna be a pretty big update and a lot of the changes might be pretty drastic. I'm going to crack down more on the rankings of Pokemon to more reflect what the purpose of "viability" is supposed to actually represent. For example, Pidgeot in D is a perfect example of how I want the rankings to look. Pidgeot is a good Pokemon, hits hard, and has a good speed tier. But it's not viable at all in FU because it has no niche. Is it viable in a vaccuum? Of course. Could it do well on a team? Certaintly. But it's so outclassed by other Pokemon found in the tier such as Swanna and Fearow that there is literally no reason to use it on a serious team, thus making it unviable, so ranking it high would ruin the purpose of the thread. Because it isn't a terrible Pokemon and is just really outclassed, it goes in D rank. Anything that is unviable AND sucks will go in E rank; see Unown, Dustox, and Furret. Well, that's enough talking about Pidgeon, I already spoke about it before. Lets move onto the changes!

A- ---> A

A ---> A-

A ---> A-

A- ---> B+

B+ ---> B

B+ ---> B

B+ ---> B-

B ---> B-

B ---> B-

B- ---> C+

B- ---> C+

B ---> C

C ---> D

B- ---> C-

B ---> C-

Changes to A ranks: Because the Pokemon found in the A ranks are supposed to be the most influential and viable Pokemon in the metagame, I will put the most amount of effort trying to accurately update them accordingly in order to keep up with the ever changing metagame. Gabite was moved up because of how splashable it is and how easy it is to fit onto offense/bulky offense, the two best playstyles in FU at the moment. Outside of strong super effective hits it is very difficult to OHKO even pure offensive variants, and with Rough Skin it can heavily discourage people Volt-turn spam which is very common in FU. It may not be able to switch into shit all the time because of its lack of recovery, but it's an amazing check to many top tier threats such as Simisear, which is godly right now, Simicyook before it gets knocked off, Buzz (Evio fails to OHKO with HP Ice), Zweilous, Lairon, Krow, Viper, Klang, and Gigalith. On top of that it's one of the most consistent offensive rockers in the tier besides Lairon. If it was just a little faster or didn't depend so much on Eviolite, it would easily be A+ or even S.

Metang is pretty mediocre at the moment. As a Steel-type there's little reason to use it over Klang or Lairon seeing as how it lacks the raw immediate power of Lairon or the ability to run through weakened teams like Klang. It's also Pursuit bait and takes a shit ton from Knock Off, a VERY common move. With the rise in Zweilous, Duck, Toed, Sear, and Scraggy, Metang just doesn't have nearly as much defensive utility. The two best Dragon-types in the tier, Gabite and Nair, have something to 2HKO it with as well. Dark is just such a commonly used coverage move and most of the tier has something to hit Metang super effectively with. I would honestly drop it to B+ but that's not entirely my call.

Personally I think Gogoat is complete trash in the current meta, and I wouldn't mind seeing it in like the lower B ranks. It's sooo overhyped holy shitttt. It's bulky, yes, and has reliable recovery but outside of that it has basically nothing else going for it that would warrant it a slot over Simicyook, BUCK, or even Servine lol. Simisage has like 2 reliable switch-ins, one of which is niche and has no reliable means of recovery (Swalot) and the other hates being knocked off (Whirl). Buck is basically a frailer, faster, and stronger Gogoat with an amazing dual STAB and Swords Dance. Servine is slow but it completely ass rapes defensive builds and is bulky enough to check shit like Buzz and Toed. Offense wont like switching into a +2 Leaf Storm either, which it can easily get against lots of slower shit. Besides, the reason Goat was so hyped in the first place was because it was like a really solid offensive check to Buzz, but it just straight loses to Toxic variants. The only set I would ever use would involve Sub or Bulk Up, although probably not both at the same time. The meta has just shifted so much out of its favor with the rise in Poisons, Sear, and Sage. It's fucking awful lol, especially now that Buck exists.

Heatmor is another Pokemon that serves little purpose in the meta and there has to be very valid reasoning not to use it over Simisear. Flash Fire is cool and Sucker Punch is cool, in theory. It's main niche in the meta is how it can "check" Simisear, but like, it can't even do that. Without an Ass Vest you're being 2HKOed by practically ever Sear set in existence because every good Sear set runs Focus Blast unless you're tryin to lose to so much shit. It's slow, gets worn down so easily especially with Orb, and Sucker is SOOOO weak seeing how it can't even invest much in physical attack, so the priority is pretty much pointless in most circumstances. I wouldn't mind it in B tbh, but Kush has a boner for it so I guess it can stay B+ for now.

Changes to lower ranks: Most of these are pretty self-explanatory. Ditto is cool and can fuck up HO teams, but it provides little use against bulkier teams and is hard to warrant a slot on teams because it's so matchup reliant. If you know you're facing Kingler123456789 who loves using rain offense or Mambonerfense, use it, but if you're facing Skank stall then u should probably go fuck yourself and use SD Lum Kingler instead. Shelgon is pretty much outclassed offensively by Nair, but its DD set is cool because you can break through Lairon, which Nair struggles against on its DD sets, so B is fine. Dusclops is passive as balls and is only good on T-spikes teams. Again, Scraggy is a god, and Krok, and Zweilous, and Krow. The meta is also prepared for T-spikes now because it's so common. Not too amazing. Magcargo sucks defensively and SS is slow as fuck but it's pretty funny and you can wreck some shit. Can set up on Cate, Krow and shit. Noctowl is really bulky but has like no defensive synergy and hits about as hard as a wet paper bag. If you have bad defensively synergy in FU and no offensive presence, you're gonna have a bad time. Wind Chime is niche as fuck as a Healing Wish user, and I really haven't seen anyone ever use it at all other than blametruth the god. Might be better, but literally have never seen anyone use it and it's literally free food for Krok and Krow. What the fuck is Octillery. It's really annoying with TR support but no one is savage enough to use TR teams unless your name is Don Honchkrorleone . Glaceon is horrendous, and the only thing that saves it from D rank is 2HKOing everything with Blizzards. Magmar is useless in a Sear meta, Belly Drum is garbage. Lumineon is another Pokemon that has an extremely small niche because it can remove hazards and has like U-turn and shit. Also can Defog on like Golduck or Toed I guess (if you like getting Encored).

Okay so FUCKING BASTIODON. What the hell does this thing even do? It comes in, sets up rocks, prays Sturdy is intact so maybe it can kill something with Metal Burst, than dies. Absolutely zero offensive presence, no reliable recovery, and is practically completely outclassed by Lairon in every shape or form. The ONLY thing that saves it from D rank is how Bastio can check everything Lairon can defensively but 3x as much because of its massive special bulk + Lefties. Other than that, it can't do shit, and I have never been able to use it on a team over Lairon without questioning my sexuality.

Okay I'm done bye.

EDIT: I bumped Furfrou up one rank. It's an alright Pokemon that is less niche than the stuff found in B-. It's not that splashable considering it has like no useful resistances and relies solely on its massive physical bulk to take hits. T-wave is also really nice because you can hard eat up most physical hits and T-wave the following turn. Personally I don't think a full defensive set is what makes Furfrou viable though. Investing fully in Speed in order to take advantage of its trollish 102 Speed tier in order to outspeed the Simis is far too important. Without doing that, Sear just comes in and roasts it with Blast while Sage does a HELL of a lot to it with Leaf Storm. It can also outspeed Cate and CAN take an unboosted Facade if need be and takes barely over 50% from Buck's Silk Scarf D-Edge, that's without ANY investment. It has terrible coverage though and hits like a girl, but Return is still strong, it has U-turn, and can outspeed lots of relevant shit. Being a free switch-in to any relevant Steel-, Rock, or Ghost-type sucks though, which is why it will never go higher than B.

I'm not sure about the other noms Skank, I'll have to look into those more.

 

[Mega-Pokebattlerz]

thread is dead:(

Wailord to C. It may not seem good, but it can do a fairly good job of making a dent in the opposing team. Access to Curse, Waterfall and Earthquake makes it a decent albeit niche physical attacker, and a bulky one at that. It also has Water Spout at its disposal if you want to run a special attacking set. And when its HP gets very low, it can blow up in your face and let its teammates finish the job. However, it's outclassed by other Water-types and requires a buttload of support from its team. Despite all this, I think Wailord is deserving of a spot in C or at least C-.

tl;dr Wailord: Unranked --> C/C-

 

[Rennyjesus]

Well... I guess we should also take out of the list the quick rises of:
* Politoed
* Relicanth
* Solrock
* Vullaby
* Golduck
* Linoone
* Purugly

With that being said, Wailord could have a decent niche as a Scarf Water Spout Spammer, or with Webs it could even use Specs for huge damage... Also since now FU lost a bunch of Water type pokes, I would even consider Wailord for B...

 

[Skankovich]

I don't think we take the raw 1630 PU stats here, usually they have to go through some kind of combination, which is only done every 3 months. So we don't have anything to go off for quick rises/drops, fortunately.

About Wailord, I'm not sure. I've faced a bulky specs set which isn't all that remarkable but it's nice in that it can take really any one neutral hit from offense and probably 1hko back, making it quite dangerous for the more all-out offensive teams of the tier- but the tier is mainly bulky offense now, which doesn't help it too much. Specs max hp water spout is theoretically great vs stall (Which only I run but still lmao) but after just rocks damage it struggles to break special walls such as Hypno. Scarf Spout probably isn't bad, but there's quite a lot of common water resists here which limits its ability to clean.

Its main competition is Octillery who has insane coverage and greater power outside of Water Spout, but is quite a bit slower and frailer. I'd really only use Octillery on trick room though, so fat whale is probably the less niche of the two. Overall I'd probably go for C, mainly because of the competition it faces with the other great offensive water types here rather than its individual performance.

 

[Rennyjesus]

I don't think we take the raw 1630 PU stats here, usually they have to go through some kind of combination, which is only done every 3 months. So we don't have anything to go off for quick rises/drops, fortunately.

About Wailord, I'm not sure. I've faced a bulky specs set which isn't all that remarkable but it's nice in that it can take really any one neutral hit from offense and probably 1hko back, making it quite dangerous for the more all-out offensive teams of the tier- but the tier is mainly bulky offense now, which doesn't help it too much. Specs max hp water spout is theoretically great vs stall (Which only I run but still lmao) but after just rocks damage it struggles to break special walls such as Hypno. Scarf Spout probably isn't bad, but there's quite a lot of common water resists here which limits its ability to clean.

Its main competition is Octillery who has insane coverage and greater power outside of Water Spout, but is quite a bit slower and frailer. I'd really only use Octillery on trick room though, so fat whale is probably the less niche of the two. Overall I'd probably go for C, mainly because of the competition it faces with the other great offensive water types here rather than its individual performance.

I really thought that FU was using exactly the same tiering methods than the other tiers... That being said, of course then Wailord is far from a B pokemon... But I would put it in C+ just because of that stupid PP stall set with Pressure since Attacking sets are just outclassed by Politoed, Golduck... However even if Octillery is stronger, that horrible speed (Scarf positive natured Octillery just have 310 speed) keeps it from doing well outside of just Trick Room...

 

[Skankovich]

It does have the same tiering method, it's just that we don't get our stats calculated every month like the others do- if you look at the NU usage for tiering shown here and compare it to the 1630 NU stats here, you can see they're different. Since we only have the 1630 PU stats and not the "combined" stats, we can't make any shifts :(

The PP stalling set is interesting actually, but I've never seen it used in FU. There's not many stall teams or players in the tier besides me, and mine uses other ways to beat the likes of Duosion and Klang at least. I also feel bulky waters aren't as in-demand here as they are in PU. It's worth testing for sure, but right now I wouldn't say its pushes fat whale up to a higher rank than it would be at otherwise.

 

[Mega-Pokebattlerz]

Thread is still dead guys, we need some discussion up in this bitch.

Wailord to C. It may not seem good, but it can do a fairly good job of making a dent in the opposing team. Access to Curse, Waterfall and Earthquake makes it a decent albeit niche physical attacker, and a bulky one at that. It also has Water Spout at its disposal if you want to run a special attacking set. And when its HP gets very low, it can blow up in your face and let its teammates finish the job. However, it's outclassed by other Water-types and requires a buttload of support from its team. Despite all this, I think Wailord is deserving of a spot in C or at least C-.

tl;dr Wailord: Unranked --> C/C-

reposting this for further discussion, as well as making some other noms that should be discussed:
Murkrow A+ -> S-
Stantler Unranked -> C/C-
Floette Unranked -> B
Whirlipede A- -> A/A+

btw nice signature Skankovich.

 

[Mistress Remilia]

Thread is still dead guys, we need some discussion up in this bitch.


reposting this for further discussion, as well as making some other noms that should be discussed:
Murkrow A+ -> S-
Stantler Unranked -> C/C-
Floette Unranked -> B
Whirlipede A- -> A/A+

btw nice signature Skankovich.

Floette is worthless & outclassed by Spritzee for these reasons:
- Floette throws smaller wishes
- Floette may have better Special Bulk, but the fairy type covers physical threats better, so Spritzee's bulk can be considered better.
- Spritzee is immuned to taunt.

Idk about CM shit done by Floette but that's probably bad, either way, keep it unranked unless i'm missing something.

Edit: Saw post but still not convinced, i'll go test it & give my thoughts. It's all up to others, but even with arguments brought up, still seems very mediocre.

 

[Mega-Pokebattlerz]

Floette is worthless & outclassed by Spritzee for these reasons:
- Floette throws smaller wishes
- Floette may have better Special Bulk, but the fairy type covers physical threats better, so Spritzee's bulk can be considered better.
- Spritzee is immuned to taunt.

Idk about CM shit done by Floette but that's probably bad, either way, keep it unranked unless i'm missing something.

I'm sure Skankovich would disagree:

Floette to replace Spritzee (Or to go to B and Spritzee to move down)

Floette has significantly less physical bulk but it has enough to do exactly what you want a phys def fairy type to do- deal with Zweilous and Scraggy, mainly. My issue with Spritzee has been the combination of relying on wish and eviolite, leaving it very easily worn down and pressured by strategies such as double switching and even just general offensive pressure. Floette meanwhile has synthesis, letting it act as a calm mind wincon while doing its normal fairy stuff, and it also leaves it less pressured by say, switchins that set up. For example, Simisear is a common switchin to both, but when put into a situation where either would need to heal up to continue to check what they need to, Spritzee would be forced to let Simi set up a nasty plot just to do so.

I've just never really found the situation where I value Spritzee's extra physical bulk over Floette's greater power, great special bulk and instant recovery. I suppose if you wanted a murkrow switchin Spritzee could be worth it, or if you actually needed it as a wishpasser, so perhaps it should just move down, but I'd definitely recommend Floette the large majority of the time.

 

[Skankovich]

I guess I did kind of cover it earlier but I'll throw my hat into the ring again :p

Floette is worthless & outclassed by Spritzee for these reasons:
- Floette throws smaller wishes
- Floette may have better Special Bulk, but the fairy type covers physical threats better, so Spritzee's bulk can be considered better.
- Spritzee is immuned to taunt.

Idk about CM shit done by Floette but that's probably bad, either way, keep it unranked unless i'm missing something.

They're both pretty poor wish passers basically, the difference is that Floette doesn't have to be. I'd rather use the less physically bulky Floette in exchange for not giving every setup mon bar Scraggy in the A and S ranks a free turn when it needs to heal, as moonblast isn't sufficiently threatening any of them (Spritzee's moonblast only has a like 2% chance to 2hko raticate after burn damage :[ ). Immunity to taunt is pretty minor considering the most common users are threatened by super effective moonblast anyway.

CM is just a token gesture because it has a free slot, not necessarily a big selling point. Could run magic coat in its stead for the occasional bit of status, maybe HP ground to lure Lairon, or even wish actually. If I wanted a dedicated wish passer I'd much rather go for Hypno who can threaten set up mons with Thunder Wave or Foul Play, making it less of a liability when it needs to heal. Spritzee does have a niche if you want say, a Krow + Scraggy/Zwei check and wishpasser in one, but set up bait that simultaneously needs 2 turns to heal itself is kinda lame.

EDIT: I do agree B is kinda high; B- is much more fitting as it is similar to the other defensive mons in that rank. I think I just suggested B in my earlier nom without even thinking because I saw Spritzee there. Of course, if Floette is at B- then Spritzee should be at like C imo.

 

[Rennyjesus]

Well... After a few fights I'm gonna post what I think it should be our FU VRs...

S
Electabuzz
Simisage
Simisear

Buzz and Sage are still two meta defining mons, however FU lost A LOT of water Pokemon and with that Sear also lost a lot of its checks... That's why I think that the three of them should be on the same S Rank...

A+
Zweilous
Lairon
Quilladin
Krokorok
Raticate
Murkrow
Huntail

A
Fearow
Klang
Persian
Pidgeot
Seviper
Wartortle
Whirlipede

A-
Duosion
Dwebble
Frogadier
Gogoat
Gourgeist S
Gigalith
Regigigas
Scraggy
Seaking
Swoobat
Whiscash

Some changes might feel weird but they are based on two fundamental things that happened in the shift: losing water types and losing defoggers...

Huntail is rising because right now I feel is the most consistent Water Type for the tier.

Fearow now can also take a little bit of Swanna's niche for an offensive Defogger that can support the team and deal damage.

Klang now benefits of not having powerful water types to plow it and since hazards are more frequent, avoiding TS and resisting SR is actually pretty cool.

Whirlipede now can keep the hazards with ease and Watortle can be considered a huge boon in a lot of teams because of Rapid Spin and Water Typing.

Dwebble also rised because of its ability to set up entry hazards and having less troubling water types, while Frogadier can also do that and has that useful water typing.

Duosion rised because now having immunity to Entry Hazard damage is more important than ever with so many things having so much dificulty to spin or defog.

Seaking and Whiscash are also a blessing right now since they are immune to Electric (which means that they can deal with Buzz) and have two really good moves on Knock Off and Dragon Dance respectively.

Also, in the end we got one new pokemon on Pidgeot that I feel is A worthy since even if it is a little bit weaker than Fearow, just because it has Brave Bird (Which hits even harder than Fearow's Drill Peck), can go special and, can use the added bulk to defog and it can even at least speed tie with the monkeys, something that Fearow can't do...

B+
Beartic
Butterfree
Dragonair
Heatmor
Marshtomp
Meowstic M
Noctowl
Palpitoad
Servine
Swalot
Vanilluxe
Walrein
Wigglytuff

B
Bellossom
Carbink
Ditto
Furfrou
Girafarig
Gourgeist L
Hippopotas
Meowstic F
Lampent
Shelgon
Spritzee
Wormadam T

B-
Bibarel
Croconaw
Dusclops
Hypno
Lumineon
Lunatone
Magcargo
Magnemite
Mothim
Munchlax
Natu
Pignite
Slaking
Stantler
Staravia
Trapinch

Again some important changes on B rank...
The first one is the drop of Butterfree, since now keeping SR out of the field is harder than ever on FU, which will take half of Butterfree life...

Walrein now as a water type with also STAB ice moves can help against grass types, however it needs to be careful of that Hazard weakness. And it is bulky enough to try getting a Salac Drum Sweep...

Marshtomp and Palpitoad are both pretty much similar... While Marsh is a little bit bulkier, Palpi is a little bit faster and can have Water immunity, however the reason for their rise is that both can set up SR and both have the coveted Water Typing... That also affect Bibarel, that also have Normal-Water STAB coverage (almost Flawless) and access to support moves like Thunder Wave, Taunt and more important Stealth Rock. The SR setting and not having Water Types that could be drowning it is also a reason for Wormadam T rise.

In the Hazard removal department now we have Noctowl, Lumineon and Staravia that are noeore viable thanks to defog and defensive sets or water typing. Natu also deters Hazards which helps.

Some other rises are Hippopotas (now can lay Entry hazards without worrying that much about the removal and water types), Lunatone (it was not ranked but it can do almost the same work as Solrock on PU, laying SR, having semi reliable recovery and with nice coverage moves), Trapinch (can trap some worrying pokes like Lairon, Klang, Simisear and Electabuzz and kick them out), Stantler (it was not ranked and even without Sawsbuck's Grass Typing, it could be its replacement having decent hitting Scarf and LO sets) and Pignite (Being a Fire Type without SR weakness and having decent mix of typing/bulk/coverage)


C+
Bastiodon
Carvanha
Chimecho
Dedenne
Diglett
Magmar
Octillery
Onix
Pikachu
Shedinja
Tentacool
Unfezant
Venipede
Yanma

C
Anorith
Delibird
Emolga
Glaceon
Sliggoo
Sudowoodo

C-
Frillish
Lickitung
Meganium
Sandshrew
Slowpoke
Snover
Wailord

D
Carnivine
Corsola
Dewgong
Dunsparce
Graveler
Marill
Ledian
Masquerain
Parasect
Phione
Tropius
Wormadam Sandy

E
Everything else not ranked...

Almost every change on the lower ranks were based on what I feel could work right now (since in my FU matches I haven't found almost any of those), considering that the Viability has increased for Water Types, pokes that were troubled heavily by some Water Types, Hazard Setters and Hazard Removers...

Of course this is just my opinion... All of those are more than open for discussion!

See ya guys!