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BW Ubers Fudge Dragon Express

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by LuckOverSkill, May 7, 2012.

  1. LuckOverSkill

    LuckOverSkill

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2010
    Messages:
    508
    Hello everyone, Luck>Skill here and welcome to my first RMT here on the Smogon Forums! I am posting this team because, while being very good, it still obviously far away from being (close to) perfect, it is lacking something, but I'm unable to find what exactly (although I really doubt it could be any better than this, it's worth a try), so here I am, asking for help. It's a team I've built principally to play in the SPL, but it had only 1 chance to being used there (since after that the tournament ended). It's a very funny team to play with, and it helped me win many battles, although I haven't laddered much with it, because I'm not a fan of the ladder. The title of this RMT was suggested by user KeyTrinity to user Bad Romance, who then suggested me to use it (he has an RMT with the same title, but in another tier).

    ~ Teambuilding process ~​


    To build this team I started from 2 pokemons I had already tried in ubers but with bad results: Ho-Oh and Heatran. I remember Heatran being amazing in the few DP Ubers matches I had, while I've always loved Ho-Oh in DW Ubers, and I wanted to use it in Wifi too, so I picked those 2.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    From there, Groudon was a pretty obvious choice, since Sun helps both Ho-Oh and Heatran, boosting their STABs and halving Water moves' damage.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Now, since Ho-Oh is SR weak, and Ubers is a metagame centralized around hazards, I wanted a spinner. Tentacruel would have helped against rain stall but honestly, I don't like Tentacruel in ubers, and if I faced another kind of team it would of sucked, also I wanted Spikes too, and fitting Ferrhotorn in here would have been impossible, so I went for Forretress, another amazing pokemon (I like it more in Ubers than in OU), that can spin, place Spikes, Toxic Spikes and resists Dragon.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Now I noticed Kyogre would have destroyed me, so I thought of putting a Gastrodon here, but it had the same problem as Tentacruel: it would have been useless vs most teams that weren't rain based, and it's Ferrothorn bait, so I went for a weird choice: a Palkia invested in Special Bulk. While the choice may seem odd, it actually works amazingly, and its moveset has a small twist that helps greatly against a lot of teams.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Now, as a last Pokemon, I wanted something that could resist Water attacks, as well as a special sweeper, that could get past Giratina. The choice was restricted, so I went simply for an Arceus, a Dragon Arceus to be precise...I had never seen one before, so I thought of using it, since it's unexpected (I think, or maybe I'm just lucky to never face any), with a SubCM set, steels aren't a problem for this team between Groudon, Ho-Oh, Heatran and Forretress that can set up on all of them or just remove them to allow my own Arceus to sweep

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    ~ Team at a glance ~​


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    ~ A closer look ~​


    [​IMG]
    Groudon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 136 SDef / 24 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Tail
    - Fire Punch
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock

    Since this is a sun team it's kinda obvious to have this big guy in the team. It always gets the weather up, unless I'm facing a REALLY slow Kyogre, and in both cases it's a free switch in to my Palkia (if early game), or even to Forry / keeping Groudon in in case of predictions or other particular situations. Max HP are pretty obvious, I need this guy to check some really dangerous threat such as SD Arceus, opposing Dual Dance Groudons, and Zekrom. The EVs in Special Defense are for it to always survive +2 Dark Pulse from LO Darkrai after SR, 24 EVs are in Speed to speed creep other base 90 (Ubers is full of those), while the rest gets dumped in Defense, with a positive nature, to check the threat I spoken of before

    [​IMG]

    Forretress (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Spikes
    - Toxic Spikes / Pain Split
    - Rapid Spin
    - Toxic​

    I used to hate this guy in OU, since well, I never could get it to work, but after using it in Ubers I could never go back. Dragon resistant, it finds quite a few opportunities to switch in and get a layer of Spikes / Spin. Toxic Spikes aren't vital to the team, but they help against quite a lot of offensive teams that rely on dealing a lot of damage in a short time, effectively shortening their lifespan, while Pain Split helps vs standard Giratina. Toxic is to avoid it to become complete set up fodder for Extremekiller Arceus.

    [​IMG]
    Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 204 HP / 208 Atk / 64 SDef / 32 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Sacred Fire
    - Brave Bird
    - Substitute
    - Recover​

    One of the 2 reasons this team was built. Ho-Oh was the first Uber Pokemon I've caught in my first Pokemon Game (Gold), and...well, I've always loved this giant colored chicken. Ho-Oh hits...REALLY hard, and it's an amazing Special wall, all in the same Pokemon, how amazing is that!!! So, the EVs in HPs are to reach 404 (not sure about that, I probably should run 4 more hp evs so I can switch into SR twice...), some EVs in Special Defense to reach the extra point (394 -> 396), since it's my backup switch in for Draco Meteors and other special attacks, 32 Speed to speed creep (yes, I'm obsessed with that), the rest goes in Attack to further increase the already huge damage output. SubRoost for survivability, then the 2 STABs, Sacred Fire's chance to burn helps a lot, and Brave Bird obliterates everything that doesn't resist it (also, not many Pokemon commonly seen in Ubers resist Flying).

    [​IMG]
    Heatran (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Toxic
    - Protect
    - Flamethrower
    - Roar​

    The 2nd reason for which this team was built. I had never success with Heatran in Ubers until I've built this. First off, it's a great check to most of the Dragon types in the tier, it can also stall quite a lot of things, and it also gives me a fire immunity (Ho-Oh has problems switching into Fire moves if Rocks are up). Toxic helps mainly against Kyogre switch ins, and forces Giratina to rest, Flamethrower 2HKOs Dialga in sun and hits insanely powerful even with only 4 EVs, Protect helps me racking up Toxic damage, as well as scouting the opponent's move, especially of choiced mons, since things such as Scarf/Specs Kyogre loves switching into Heatran. Amazing Pokemon overall, although it probably is the weak link of the team.

    [​IMG]
    Arceus-Drago (Arceus-Dragon) @ Draco Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 120 HP / 252 SAtk / 136 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Calm Mind
    - Judgment
    - Recover​

    My endgame sweeper. I needed something that could resist Water, Fire, and could set up on most of the walls and kill Giratina easily, so the choice was on a SubCM Arceus, and Dragon seemed to fit this team the best. The EVs in Speed are there to outspeed max speed neutral Arceus, max Special Attack for maximum damage output, rest in HP for bulk (also, 101+ HPs substitutes for Chansey/Blissey). Abuses of the work of the rest of the team (Ho-Oh / Heatran already obliterate all the Steel types), and can set up on some walls, it also has excellent neutral coverage and not much can stop it. Also, Dragon Arceus is kinda uncommon (unless I just never face those for one reason or another).

    [​IMG]
    Palkia @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 232 HP / 96 SDef / 180 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Roar
    - Thunder
    - Spacial Rend
    - Fire Blast​

    This Palkia set is kinda weird, it's an idea I had randomly while looking for a Kyogre switch in. I was already aware of the fact that Palkia is a good switch in for the fat whale, but honestly with a standard offensive set it wouldn't have had enough survivability to withstand its assault for a whole game, so I came up with this. the speed is to outspeed neutral natured base 90s (Modest SpecsOgre mainly). I got enough Special Defense to get the extra point (328 -> 330), and the rest got dumped in HPs. I don't run a water STAB because it's kinda pointless in sun, and if I'm facing a rain team, they'd have already an excellent water resist in Kyogre + all the other dragons, so I just went for this, it hits already everything I need it to hit. Roar is the small twist I decided to use. Since I have hazards, and Palkia forces switches, Roar sounded like a good choice on paper, and it was even in practice. It helps me roasting Chansey on entry hazards, as well as other walls that come in to ruin my fun. Also, it gives me an additional weapon against SmashPass, as well as something to get rid of some setuppers that try to set up on Palkia (SD Arceus primarily)...if only Palkia got Scald...

    ~ Conclusion ~​


    So this is it, the best Ubers team I've ever built, it's not flawless, but I'm very happy with it, covering basically every threat of the metagame, while having still various ways of dealing powerful damage. In my Ubers experience, I'm yet to face a single threat that can handle this team by itself. I love using this team, it's very funny to use, and it's not super-standard. One thing I forgot to mention: Conflict helped me with this team quite a lot, and I'd like to thank him for that. Thanks in advance to everyone that will read this huge wall of text, and to whoever will rate this, I hope you'll like this team, ciao!

    ~ One last glance ~​


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    ~ The importable ~​


    Show Hide
    Forretress (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Spikes
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Toxic

    Arceus-Drago (Arceus-Dragon) @ Draco Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 120 HP / 252 SAtk / 136 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Calm Mind
    - Judgment
    - Recover

    Palkia @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 236 HP / 96 SDef / 176 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Roar
    - Thunder
    - Spacial Rend
    - Fire Blast

    Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 204 HP / 208 Atk / 64 SDef / 32 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Sacred Fire
    - Brave Bird
    - Substitute
    - Recover

    Heatran (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Toxic
    - Protect
    - Flamethrower
    - Roar

    Groudon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 136 SDef / 24 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Tail
    - Fire Punch
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
  2. puregenius

    puregenius

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Messages:
    198
    Strange team luck

    I can see a huge weakness to subcm gira o
    He can set up on forre completely
    Nothing wants to take a hit from aura sphere or dragon pulse
    Ho oh ur special wall will lose half hp from sr so he can not take gira o at all
    Phasing with groudon will leave u weak to ek arceus and phasing with palkia (not even sure if he does survive a hit at +1) will leave u weak to kyogre

    I would put in a lugia over heatran
    If not I'd use lava plume over flamthrower

    I dislike ur lack of a revenge killer as well as priority
    I think using thunder wave over roar on palkia will be much more beneficial

    P.s any chance u can provide some replays? I'm having trouble seeing wat heatran brings to the table on this team and how this team functions as a whole
  3. gookie

    gookie Adominnustrata
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2010
    Messages:
    2,773
    hi cool team

    you look intensely weak to blaziken if it sets up on forretress

    i recommend a sdef giratina over palkia, it can phaze and switch into ogre too~

    it spinblocks as well.

    uh yeah apart from that not much i can recommend, hippowdon sand teams look somewhat troublesome as excadrill fucks over everything if groudon is weakened, also landorus fucks over everything regardless.
  4. LuckOverSkill

    LuckOverSkill

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2010
    Messages:
    508
    I'm yet to face any subCM, but all it can do is damaging my Heatran if it comes in on Forretress (since I'd "waste" a turn placing Spikes, if I'm not expecting that), since after I discover my opp has a SubCM Giratina, I'll start playing the game conservatively, using Forretress to lure out Giratina, bringing its HP down on hazards and possibly kill it with Ho-Oh.

    The main problem with Giratina is that it is a sitting duck, also, it'd leave me more Kyogre weak than I already am.

    About the Hippowdon issue, if I see Hippowdon and Excadrill on my opponent's team, I'd never let my Groudon getting weakened before Excadrill is severely damaged / out of the game. I can always play around it with Ho-Oh / Groudon (if Rocks aren't up), Arceus can survive an hit and hit back for good damage, Palkia survives an hit and kills it back, I don't find it problematic at all. Also, I've always found winning weather wars pretty easy with this team. Granted, it's not a team easy to use.

    I'd provide replays of this if I had any good replay of this team on this comp, if I find any on my other comp, I'll add them on Friday
  5. cheap_uber_battler

    cheap_uber_battler

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Messages:
    14
    Hi, some very nice originailty in this team, especially the Palkia set. Just a few querries about it- sorry if they are obvious. Is there any reason you have Dragon Tail -> Roar on Groudon (and yet Roar -> Dragon Tail on Palkia)? I've always preferred Roar on Groudon for the ability to immediately phase sub+hone claws Zekrom amongst other things. Also have you considered Taunt on Heatran? I know its kind of standard, and your team doesnt look as though it will have much trouble with stall, but tauntran can shut down so many stall members that you should have an easy time against almost any stall team.

    Finally I would consider testing CM Ghostceus over Dragonceus. Hazards seem important to the success of this team so it seems a waste to let your opponent get a free spin, although there are obvious notable dissadvantages of Ghostceus such as the need for a coverage move
  6. LuckOverSkill

    LuckOverSkill

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2010
    Messages:
    508
    Honestly, no, I should run Roar > Dtail on Groudon, I hate missing Dragon Tail, also yeah, it'd help me against most Substitute users.

    The Ghostceus suggestion seems rather interesting, although I'd lose Dragonceus' Water resist that saved me a bunch of times, definitely something I'll test though!

    What should I replace on Tran for Taunt? Toxic?

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