Metagame Full Potential



The first one of those is Tailwind. I got reqs easily with Tailwind because of how strong Celesteela + Tailwind is. There are also other mons that are really good in Tailwind like Nihilego and Tapu Lele, but Celesteela stands out because of it's natural bulk. There aren't many ways to beat Tailwind teams, the only bad matchups that Tailwind has are TR and other Tailwind teams. It's is also much more broken if paired with Aurora Veil, because it lets Celesteela get an Autotomize off, which is most of the enough to win. Tailwind is generally unhealthy and uncompetitive for the metagame and I would say that it's really similar to Baton Pass in OU before it was banned.
To be fair if tailwind is to be suspected then shouldnt agility/rock polish/autotomize get suspected as well?

If anything tailwind gives us some sort of check to those agility sweepers, seriously without it how do u even revenge mons like landorus celesteela or lopunny? They hit way too hard and, just like tailwind, they outspeed everything.

The only difference is they keep their boosts until they switch out, basically after u set up a rock polish or agility you just stay in and sweep cause youre not forced to switch out after 3 turns. Idk about u but agility spam sounds just as bad as tailwind spam
 
Likes: nv

branflakes

formerly Branflakes325
is a Tiering Contributor
I went into this meta thinking that tailwind was absolutely busted and utilized a couple prankster setters along with extremely fast wallbreakers and also celesteela. I can say with confidence that there is a LOT of counterplay to tailwind-focused teams, specifically trickroom and strong priority. The latter is all over most teams and it really makes it difficult to get any significant mileage out of tailwind especially when playing around priority just wastes tailwind turns.

This isn't to say tailwind isn't potent, but even with tapu lele it pales in comparison to the influence of priority in this metagame. Specific users of Tailwind, specifically whimsicott, are still extremely good but this isn't so much a testament to the power of tailwind itself. Whimsicott is just a really good standalone threat with strong priority in nature power and an amazing utility movepool made even better with prankster.
 
Likes: nv
To be fair if tailwind is to be suspected then shouldnt agility/rock polish/autotomize get suspected as well?

If anything tailwind gives us some sort of check to those agility sweepers, seriously without it how do u even revenge mons like landorus celesteela or lopunny? They hit way too hard and, just like tailwind, they outspeed everything.

The only difference is they keep their boosts until they switch out, basically after u set up a rock polish or agility you just stay in and sweep cause youre not forced to switch out after 3 turns. Idk about u but agility spam sounds just as bad as tailwind spam
The difference is that agility users have to set up and take damage first which makes them way more vulnerable to priority. Tailwind abusers don't have to set up because tailwind is already set for them. Agility users are also mostly weaker than tailwind users. That's because some agility users have to run items like sash, while tailwind abusers are able to easily run scarf which puts them at +3 in tailwind. Rock polish lando-t takes way too much damage from special attacks, which makes it easy to revengekill it with priority. +3 Celesteela is still outsped by scarf Koko and M-Lopunny is easily revengekilled by Sylveon or M-Scizor.

I went into this meta thinking that tailwind was absolutely busted and utilized a couple prankster setters along with extremely fast wallbreakers and also celesteela. I can say with confidence that there is a LOT of counterplay to tailwind-focused teams, specifically trickroom and strong priority. The latter is all over most teams and it really makes it difficult to get any significant mileage out of tailwind especially when playing around priority just wastes tailwind turns.

This isn't to say tailwind isn't potent, but even with tapu lele it pales in comparison to the influence of priority in this metagame. Specific users of Tailwind, specifically whimsicott, are still extremely good but this isn't so much a testament to the power of tailwind itself. Whimsicott is just a really good standalone threat with strong priority in nature power and an amazing utility movepool made even better with prankster.
It's true that Tailwind is easily countered by trick room, but it isn't easy at all to counter tailwind with priority and I can't really see how there's a LOT of counterplay against tailwind, you have to bring up some more examples for me to agree with you on that. Priority isn't really that great of a counterplay against Tailwind. Celesteela's natural bulk and good typing make it much less vulnerable to priority, especially when you pair it with aurora veil. You also can't really run many strong priority users on your team because of item clause. Tapu Lele also shuts down priority, Celesteela isn't affected by it because it's a flying type, but Lele is supposed to be used as a late-game sweeper and it does that job really well. Scarf lele cleans most teams up after they've been weakened by Celesteela. Teams really need to try and keep either TTar or 1 special tank and 1 physical tank to avoid being swept by Lele at the end of the game. And doing that is pretty hard when you have to try to stop Celesteela first.

But like I said before, you can make arguments that tailwind isn't "broken", but there's no denying it that tailwind is unhealthy for the metagame and generally just an uncompetitive playstyle.
 
I dont think its as broken as u make it out to be, other abusers 70% of the time dont get to make use of tailwind since it takes one turn to set it up (so 3 turns left) one turn to switch out or faint (2 turns left, also u need to make sure your abuser doesnt get too weakened from the switch cause priority) and then 2 turns (3 if u set up a suicide tailwind) to abuse tailwind and then ur easily forced out. Its kinda like tr in ou, very effective in tr turns but short lived.

Im not saying it isnt uncompetitive (it is, it requires like almost no skill to use) im just saying u cant say agility is fine and is just "easily revenged by priority and scarfers" and then say its not the case for tailwind users.

Agility users can abuse aurora veil, psychic terrain and z moves too its not like not running scarf hinders them that much
 
Like I said you can make arguments that tailwind isn't broken. However I wouldn't put agility and tailwind in the same category. As I said before, agility users have to take damage first which makes them more vulnerable to priority unlike tailwind abusers. The turnlimit doesn't really matter tbh. The main tailwind abuser Celesteela only needs tailwind to set up the sweep. Same goes for other abusers like Nihilego or Kartana, but they're way more vulnerable to priority. Lele also doesn't mind the turnlimit, because her main role is to sweep late-game. I'd say the best agility user rn is mew because z-psychic protects it from priority, which makes it more reliable than agility koko. I don't know much about aurora veil + agility because I've never seen or used it before, but I might try it out to see if it's comparable to tailwind.
 
The thing about tailwind and Speed strategies in general are that Trick Room not only exists, but has very potent users such as Magearna, Slowbro, and Diancie. That last one especially is concerning due to Diamond Storm suddenly doubling its bulk, meaning it runs away with games some of the time, simply due to the fact that almost nothing can take a Diamond Storm, Moonblast, or Earth Power after +4.

That being said, the current abusers of speed boosts are pretty powerful themselves, and can run away with games easily, due to either coverage or just sheer power.

Also speaking of Trick Room, I'd like to draw everyone's attention to an overlooked threat.



Rhydon @ Eviolite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Earth Power/Earthquake
- Flamethrower/Surf/Thunderbolt
- Rock Blast/Stone Edge
- Thunderbolt/Stealth Rock/Ice Beam

While we know Rhyperior is not great here, the same is not true for Rhydon. Eviolite gives Rhydon incredibly powerful attacks right out of the gate with a large 558 Defense, making it pretty lethal in Trick Room. It can suddenly also use the whole of its special movepool now, giving it quite a few options.to nail pretty much the whole metagame. Ice Beam isn't that good, but I listed it for the rare Garchomp, along with Latias, which is only a marginal boost at best...

While I feel it certainly is better than Onix, it still has problems with special attacks. However, it wears down pretty much anything it hits to below half (speed abuser Mew takes ~65 percent from an Earth Power, for reference), which lets a priority user sneak in there and finish Rhydon's assailant off.
...Unless it's a Trick Room Steelix, which I hope you aren't having Rhydon tussle against.
 

Knuckstrike

Hi I'm FIREEEE
I'd like to introduce a very anti-metagame mon right now which I feel should see more use. Not only does it have a great movepool for this metagame, its stats are nothing to scoff at and its typing is amazing.

Heatran @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD + speedcreep
Calm Nature
- Overheat
- Iron Head / Flash Cannon
- Earth Power / Stone Edge
- Earth Power / Stealth Rock / Protect

Other possible items include AV, Leftovers and Shuca/Chople.

Balloon Heatran is a great fit for most teams as it beats many of the top tier threats whenever rocks are up. It can be considered a counter to Swellow, Steelix, Ferrothorn, Scizor, Regice, Sylveon, Diancie and many other top threats. It also checks Tyranitar, Koko, Alakazam and Altaria. Having rocks on a mon that can take a hit from practically anything is great as you can still threaten 75% of the meta even after you get them up.

The set can either be 4 attacks for maximum coverage, or swapping 1/2 of them for useful support.
Overheat doesn't drop you and is obvious STAB. Iron head is generally preferred over Flash cannon as it hits tyranitar for over 75%, in addition to a flinch chance and having good mixed options. If diancie's defense boost scares you, you could opt for flash cannon.
Earth power is 100% accurate which makes it a safer option on a koko/steelix than overheat. Edge can hit talonflame and araquanid for an OHKO which can otherwise annoy it.
I personally already had a rocks mon but protect/rocks can be placed over a coverage option if you prefer a more traditional heatran set.

Its downsides in regular OU were its speed and weakness to ground. Fortunately, in Full Potential many of the mons that are commonly used are either at scarfed swellow level or below ttar speed, so its speed is not a problem here. With air balloon being harder to pop as chip damage is harder to get in, its weakness to ground is migated a bit. In addition, air balloon is an item with use on a limited amount of pokemon and won't limit teambuilding as much as for example a scarfer or an AV mon.

It is quite weak to getting chipped, plus it allows some mons like Greninja, Mew and fast Celesteela (after the balloon is lost) to boost up. In addition, its nice 130spA stat is not used in favour of its spD stat. It's still stronger than in regular OU but only by 15% which isn't a whole lot by FP standards.

Regardless, its strong matchup vs many of the tier's giants is worth an A ranking imo.
 

Funbot28

Breaking hearts since '09
is a Pre-Contributor


Vote: Ban
Tapu Koko is just too strong and versatile of a threat to remain in the metagame imo. With the option to go either fully special, physical, or even mixed with relatively equal viability means that finding true counters to it is seemingly impossible. Added to the fact that it outspeeds pretty much most of the unboosted metagame (and when its Scarfed or under Tailwind its even worse) makes it extremely hard to revenge kill as well. Really only stuff like Chansey and Specially Defensive Mega Steelix can truly take it on a majority of the time, and I find this really stagnates teambuilding greatly.

Some fun teams I used along the ride:

http://pokepast.es/6e6c2fe90f5988dd

Really effective balance team that provides great offensive momentum through both Mega Scizor and Tapu Koko, since the pair can break through most of eachothers checks. A solid defensive backbone of Chansey + Toxapex (even AVest Sylveon tanks quite a few hits) also allows the team to handle as many threats as possible. Scarf Zydog was added for simple speed control and is a great cleaner lategame.



http://pokepast.es/47fca04c82834777

So I wanted to jump on the whole "TailVeil" trend and I must say I wasn't disappointed. Under Tailwind, threats such as Celesteela and Mew become extremely difficult to properly handle, and the added bulk that comes from Aurora Veil means they also have a much more easier time setting up Speed boosts of thier own. Mega Ttar is hear as a reliable rocker while I decided to use both Tornadus + Whimsicott for Prankster Tailwind.


Also expect a few VR updates alongside a few other resource updates soon!

1.5K Post woo woo. Special coming soon(tm)
 
Last edited:
Alright I got some sets.

BASTIODON

Bastiodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Avalanche
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide

This makes Bastiodon a thicc sweeper. He can deal hits and take hits. With his 168 attack and defense and 138 special defense, this is one thicc boi.


REGICE

Regice @ Choice Specs
Ability: Ice Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Signal Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon

Another thicc boi, except this time in the special department. You can see instead of Bastiodon's leftovers, Regice has choice specs instead. This is because he can use any of his moves and be fine with his base 200 attack stats, 100 defense, and 200 special defense.

MEGA MAWILE

Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch
- Crunch

I might be sounding like Verlis right now, but Mawile is quite amazing in this meta. With huge power, Mawile's attack stat is a whopping 766. If you consider using a mega, use Mawile.

NINJASK

Ninjask @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Bug Buzz
- Final Gambit
- Shadow Ball
- Giga Drain

Since Speed Boost is banned, we're forced to stick with Infiltrator with Ninjask. It's not the best, but is by no means the worst either. Anyway onto his pros. His 160 base speed makes for a good fast sweeper. I admit, Final Gambit is a filler, but if you need it, it's always an option.

GENGAR

Gengar @ Choice Band
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Trick
- Sucker Punch

In Gen 3 and below, all of these moves were special. Now you can relive Gen 3 with the elemental punches being special...in a way! Trick is good against special sweepers like Regice. It might not be the best moveset, but it sure is a fun one!

TALONFLAME

Talonflame @ Charti Berry
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Tailwind
- U-turn
- Roost

OH GOD WHY

This set makes talonflame...better. Brave Bird has more damage output, Tailwind has more of a use, and roost...is roost.

So that's my team! Tell me your thoughts!
 
Alright I got some sets.

BASTIODON

Bastiodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Avalanche
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide

This makes Bastiodon a thicc sweeper. He can deal hits and take hits. With his 168 attack and defense and 138 special defense, this is one thicc boi.


REGICE

Regice @ Choice Specs
Ability: Ice Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Signal Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon

Another thicc boi, except this time in the special department. You can see instead of Bastiodon's leftovers, Regice has choice specs instead. This is because he can use any of his moves and be fine with his base 200 attack stats, 100 defense, and 200 special defense.

MEGA MAWILE

Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch
- Crunch

I might be sounding like Verlis right now, but Mawile is quite amazing in this meta. With huge power, Mawile's attack stat is a whopping 766. If you consider using a mega, use Mawile.

NINJASK

Ninjask @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Bug Buzz
- Final Gambit
- Shadow Ball
- Giga Drain

Since Speed Boost is banned, we're forced to stick with Infiltrator with Ninjask. It's not the best, but is by no means the worst either. Anyway onto his pros. His 160 base speed makes for a good fast sweeper. I admit, Final Gambit is a filler, but if you need it, it's always an option.

GENGAR

Gengar @ Choice Band
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Trick
- Sucker Punch

In Gen 3 and below, all of these moves were special. Now you can relive Gen 3 with the elemental punches being special...in a way! Trick is good against special sweepers like Regice. It might not be the best moveset, but it sure is a fun one!

TALONFLAME

Talonflame @ Charti Berry
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Tailwind
- U-turn
- Roost

OH GOD WHY

This set makes talonflame...better. Brave Bird has more damage output, Tailwind has more of a use, and roost...is roost.

So that's my team! Tell me your thoughts!
Run Assault Vest on Regice
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
Alright I got some sets.

BASTIODON

Bastiodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Avalanche
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide

This makes Bastiodon a thicc sweeper. He can deal hits and take hits. With his 168 attack and defense and 138 special defense, this is one thicc boi.


REGICE

Regice @ Choice Specs
Ability: Ice Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Signal Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon

Another thicc boi, except this time in the special department. You can see instead of Bastiodon's leftovers, Regice has choice specs instead. This is because he can use any of his moves and be fine with his base 200 attack stats, 100 defense, and 200 special defense.

MEGA MAWILE

Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch
- Crunch

I might be sounding like Verlis right now, but Mawile is quite amazing in this meta. With huge power, Mawile's attack stat is a whopping 766. If you consider using a mega, use Mawile.

NINJASK

Ninjask @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Bug Buzz
- Final Gambit
- Shadow Ball
- Giga Drain

Since Speed Boost is banned, we're forced to stick with Infiltrator with Ninjask. It's not the best, but is by no means the worst either. Anyway onto his pros. His 160 base speed makes for a good fast sweeper. I admit, Final Gambit is a filler, but if you need it, it's always an option.

GENGAR

Mawile @ Choice Band
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Trick
- Sucker Punch

In Gen 3 and below, all of these moves were special. Now you can relive Gen 3 with the elemental punches being special...in a way! Trick is good against special sweepers like Regice. It might not be the best moveset, but it sure is a fun one!

TALONFLAME

Talonflame @ Charti Berry
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Tailwind
- U-turn
- Roost

OH GOD WHY

This set makes talonflame...better. Brave Bird has more damage output, Tailwind has more of a use, and roost...is roost.

So that's my team! Tell me your thoughts!
silly boy. the way the meta works your essentially wasting your mons. the way the meta works is the highest stat your mon has becomes the "attacking stat" so regice would utilize special defense (running a + spc def nature, and also running AV) in order to fully reap the benefits of the metas concept. investing in attack or special attack would be completely pointless, enless its something like kyurem B, or gengar which wants to utilize coverage from the other side it cant normally use.

to put it in a way to easily understand, physical and special attacks are still split when inflicting damage, but your "attacking stat" is determined via your highest stat (except HP)

and to fix all your sets ev all of them like such(and so its easier to understand my explination since im terribad at explaining):

bastiodon:
252 hp / 252 def +def nature

Regice:
248 HP / 252 sp. def +spc def nature, AV > choice specs

Mawile
just use adamant, huge power doubles attack only. so maybe add on fire blast or something to help with its coverage issues.(its special, but its hitting off its attack stat...if that makes sense ;_;)

Ninjask
run max speed and ditch the special attack EV's. all you really need is to go fast. throw the rest into either hp, def to tank priority a bit better.

GENGAR
252 special attack and 252 speed
use specs(your special attack is higher, so all your physical attacks will hit from the special side) and might as well throw in shadow ball for stab.

TALONFLAME
same with jask, run max speed, use overheat if you want (since your using your speed stat, overheat will deal a LOT of damage without lowering talon's speed)

hopefully i explained this in a way thats somewhat easy to understand.

edit: oh, and since im constantly updating this to make it as descriptive as i possibly can, might as well give you some thoughts on the team. i like it. the only issue is your team gets eaten alive by stealth rocks, so you might want to consider having a spinner or defogger. especially with both jask AND talonflame.
 
Last edited:

branflakes

formerly Branflakes325
is a Tiering Contributor


Gonna vote no ban on koko. It's definitely one of the best of the speedy attackers available, but it has some exploitable weaknesses:
-It doesn't really like being choice locked into anything other than u-turn
-It usually gets 2HKO'd by common priority attacks like espeed, bullet punch, fake out, aqua jet, shadow sneak, pixilate quick attack, ice shard
-This puts it on equal footing with stuff like Jolteon under the effects of tailwind. If the Koko set is relying on tailwind support rather than a choice item then it's easily outsped by any other scarf user.
-It can't be supported by psychic terrain
-It may be able to run a mixed set like almost everything else in the meta, but its physical coverage is really lacking
-It's a sitting duck in trick room

Some of these points may seem like a stretch, but I gotta stress that priority and trick room are everywhere. I totally agree with the point that tapu koko has no safe switchins, but this can be said for about 30 other common threats in this metagame. It's simply a characteristic of this metagame that we should accept. There are few/zero safe switchins to a mixed jolteon, steelix, tapu lele, greninja, toxapex, tyranitar, electrode, cloyster, dusclops, kecleon, ninjask, swellow, etc etc. Electric terrain support is really nice for activating seeds and beefing up electric type moves, but I fail to see how this is unhealthy or broken. Anyways I don't have any strong opinions either way, and I acknowledge that tapu koko is simply more well-rounded overall than most of its competition. I just don't think it has this impeccable grip on the metagame in a way that some people see it.
 
http://pokemonshowdown.com/users/kokock
upload_2017-11-9_14-56-23.png

Got to the requirements on this crudely named alt. With tailwind support this guy is an unstoppable late-game monster, but the same can largely be said of any scarfed lad. Paired with an Onix to remove opposing Steelix (and even some other ground types), it's quite the fearsome duo. Koko's extra advantage comes from the terrain, which definitely seemed like enough to warrant his questioning. I find that terrain wars with opposing Lele, Fini etc. are fun when they happen, and losing out on one of these would be a bit of a shame. I can't bring myself to come to a final decision just yet.

Update: I'm gonna vote BAN in favor of diversity.
 
Last edited:
Terrain wars are fun, however they rarely happen because lele and fini don't get much usage. Which is again because of item clause. I wish I could write more but I don't have the time rn.
 
Hiya, I have some thoughts about the viability ranking. From what I've seen it doesn't reflect the current meta very well, on certain pokemon at least. Please weigh in on what you disagree/agree with.

A+ -> A
Though swellow is a great threat, it's quite prediction heavy and doesn't fare too well against the other S/A tier threats. It doesn't see nearly as much usage as Steelix and don't think it's as good. It's also frail compared to the other top tier threats, meaning it can't get a prediction wrong or it dies. Plus the scarf item is revered.
A -> B+
Alakazam is a very fast mon but can't run scarf. It doesn't even get a boost compared to regular OU. Don't think it's all that good, def not A level.
A -> B+
Cotton guard is a good move but it can't get it off all that often. It's still very weak to getting revenge killed by special attackers (koko, swellow) after setting up.
A -> B+
Worse than it appears. It's still quite frail on the physical side and gets OHKO'd by most high tiered mons while not being able to outspeed. Its special bulk and strength is impressive but still has an abysmal defensive typing.
A- -> B+
Think steelix has a definite edge over aggron as a better SR setter and it has an actual powerful ground stab. Plus it doesn't cost a mega slot.
A- -> A
Is always on decent ladder teams. Has a great movepool and is one of the only answers to koko.
A- -> A
Similarly to chansey, it isn't actually weak to common attacks and is still really strong. Ghost+fighting is unresisted so all the coverage you need. No real counters (other than fast sab maybe).
A- -> B
What is this used for again? Havent seen it do very much, its dracos don't do that much.
A- -> B
Has better answers to it than for example swellow, koko or gren. Quite predictable, dont think it's A rank material.
B+ -> A
Good tailwind setter and sash lead. Does a lot for the team archetype which is currently quite strong.
B+ -> B-
Why
B+ -> A-
Ash gren is very scary and with more sturdy/sash mons it's easy to pick one off and get ash gren. Water shuriken is very welcome too.
B+ -> C
Haven't seen this being used much at all, still has a bad defensive typing and doesn't get that good a boost. Movepool is lackluster.
B+ -> B-
Elec "use koko" trode has good speed but there's better options.
B+ -> A-
Its STABs come off a better 170 now, plus it has great coverage for the top tiers. Can take a hit as well.
B+ -> A/A-
Great sweeping potential. Haven't used it but quite strong vs common teams.
B -> A-
One of the only fast set-up mons that can take hits too. Very scary to face.
B- -> A/A-
Made a post about this already. It has a great match-up vs most top-tier threats and can reliably set up rocks.
B- -> B+
Without rocks up works very well. Has tailwind too.
B- -> A/A-
Don't get why this is so low. Prankster tailwind and priority attacks under terrain coming off 116 base, yes please.
C -> B
8 turns of veil is a lot in this tier since most battles are over quickly. Shame about ttar, but you can run hail.

Think Slowbro, Kartana, Electrode, Florges can drop as well a bit maybe.
 
I'll post my own vr after the suspect, but Latias is really good. It's one of the best utility mons in the meta rn and shoudn't drop to B rank. I actually think it should rise to A rank. Latias fits on so many different teams because of the many options it has. It gets defog, both screens, healing wish, tailwind, spammable draco, it can even lure TTar with Z-Earthquake. Soul Dew is also amazing in a meta where so many mons are almost unviable because of item clause.
 
Assault Vest Latias is incredibly strong, with good attacking options such as Draco Meteor, Psychic, BoltBeam, Earthquake, Surf, and Sucker Punch.

Attacking:
+1 252+ SpD Latias Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tyranitar: 330-390 (81.6 - 96.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ SpD Latias Surf vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Steelix: 456-538 (128.8 - 151.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ SpD Latias Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Dusclops: 186-220 (65.4 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ SpD Latias Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-Black: 764-900 (195.3 - 230.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ SpD Latias Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 258-304 (84.8 - 100%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ SpD Latias Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Regice: 179-211 (49.1 - 57.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ SpD Latias Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Regice: 125-148 (34.3 - 40.6%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Defending:
252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar Dark Pulse vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Latias in Sand: 216-254 (59.3 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Def Life Orb Sheer Force Steelix Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Latias: 230-272 (63.1 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Def Eviolite Dusclops Shadow Ball vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Latias: 174-206 (47.8 - 56.5%) -- 86.7% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Teravolt Kyurem-Black Ice Beam vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Latias: 236-282 (64.8 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Def Toxapex Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Latias: 177-208 (48.6 - 57.1%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpD Assault Vest Regice Ice Beam vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Latias: 270-320 (74.1 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


A few things Latias cannot handle is Scizor-Mega, Sylveon, Tapu Koko, Talonflame, and Zygarde-10%. It also suffers from 4MSS, due to all of its options.
 

rip 11-0

Vote: BAN

Reasoning: This is just a classic case of 2stronk2fast. His versatile Scarf/Agility+Sash sets are basically a coin flip and with electric surge, you have what's essentially a pseudo unburden/weather abuser running amok, which in and of itself was deemed broken. Not only that, he's probably one of the most over-centralizing mons I've seen in a non-ubers meta, to the extent that every team must carry an answer. Of course, he's not infallible; priority can easily pick him apart, bulky offensive can handle him well(with the right synergy) and he's not the most difficult mon to cteam. That being said, my opinion still stands; he's just a little too powerful in an increasingly bulky meta, which is why I'm voting ban.
 
Last edited: