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Fun at the Beach (RMT Sun Team)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Grimmedslug, Dec 9, 2012.

  1. Grimmedslug

    Grimmedslug

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2012
    Messages:
    2
    PS: Anyone that can teach me how to use spoiler tags on this forum, please tell :D I don't think people want to see my musing through building my team.

    Fun at the Beach

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Changes in Red

    Hey all. My name is Grimmedslug. New member, been lurking for a few months now playing competitive Pokemon. (learning theory 80% of the way and only playing within the recent 2 months or so)

    At first I started with a rain team (who doesn't like rain teams?) but I gradually came to realise that my rain teams are pathetic. I can't use Pokemon like Tentacruel or Ferrothorn effectively, so I ended up with a hyper offensive team which didn't get me anywhere. After that I toyed around with other weathers (hail, sand) and eventually settled on Sun.


    Making the Team


    And with that done, now we go into the team.

    [​IMG]

    Valentina (Victini) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Victory Star
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - V-Create
    - Bolt Strike
    - U-Turn
    - Brick Break

    The victory star of the team is here! Victini under Sun shines like a star (okay enough puns). Victory Star is actually pretty decent, upping the somewhat poor accuracy of Bolt Strike (85%) to a much more reliable percentage, and any boost is necessary on this glass train.

    The EVs focus on boosting Attack and Speed, and after some decision I decided to just go for Speed to max EVs as opposed to previously, because really, why not? I have wish after all. Clearly Adamant to let it hit all the way.

    Victini is meant to OHKO majority of the competition. Blissey? Dead. Rotom-W? Dead even with V-Create. Very few things can stand up to a CB V-Create short of Multiscale Dnite (which still goes very nearly to death) or a few exceptions (Tyranitar generally comes out okay, but that's what Brick Break is for).

    The rest are for coverage: U-turn if you decide to hit and run some more while scouting (not recommended, unless you have to do it, especially not if there are hazards), Brick Break mostly for sniping Tyranitar more than anything. Bolt Strike and V-Create are the stars of this star.

    Victini's job mostly involves going in on a safe switch in (using Wish or otherwise), then forcing the enemy to decide which Pokemon he wants dead. When your stat drops and you're sure you can't outspeed the enemy, just switch out.

    There's been some discussion about dealing with Heatran. Generally I have to agree that teams packing Flash Fire/Volt Absorb have an edge over me because it forces me to second guess Victini's killer moves and make predictions, which if I miss, would cost me the game. This is rather annoying at times because sometimes teams pack BOTH Heatran/Jolteon or Heatran/Thundurus-T, which makes it a real guessing game. In such a case I would rely more on Venusaur than Victini until at least one is taken out. Otherwise if there's one alone (mostly Heatran) I would generally try to call the switch and use a CB-ed Bolt Strike which is 2HKO to Heatran, forcing him to switch out and breaking any Balloons which make Heatran easy pickings for Blissey to clean up with Seismic Toss or Donphan's Earthquake.


    [​IMG]

    Nina (Ninetales) (Female) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 132 Spe
    IVs: 0 Atk
    Timid Nature
    - Flamethrower
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Sunny Day
    - Roar

    Ninetales is a terrible Pokemon. It's mostly only here to set the sun. In my experiences, I'll rather take a Politoed, Hippowdon or even Abomasnow any other day. Still, I needed to give it some utility.

    Leftovers for survival, since we need to win the weather war, especially against Politoed, which is easier said than done. Most weather inducers find that Ninetales is 'send in bait'. Essentially, Ninetales finds it hard to touch them, especially so Politoed. Ninetales loses in the direct send in, so you need to do a switch to bring them in for sun while either their weather inducer is in, or more likely when it's not. In the latter, you can often prepare to use Sunny Day if it looks like he may send in his weather right away, ie his Pokemon cannot strike a critical blow on Ninetales. This will mess up his weather plans, especially once Donphan gets Stealth Rocks down. No one likes entry hazards.

    With my trials around SpD Ninetales, I decided that it was actually not bad. Much more power to send in, although it still distresses me that sending in against STAB water moves are still a no-go, since rain teams are generally focussed around that. I decided to skip Protect, because frankly I was barely using it, my Ninetales was mostly either going for the Will-O-Wisp by calling a switch on the weather inducer, or just staying in to set sun before going out like a ninja. So I decided that I was just going to get out of Protect and go for Roar, which allows me to phaze some Pokemon who may decide that Ninetales is complete setup bait on send in. Which, really, is better than nothing. Protect just wasn't paying for its slot with Blissey Wish support waiting in the wings.


    [​IMG]

    Viola (Venusaur) (Female) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spe
    Modest Nature
    - Growth
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power (Fire)
    - Sludge Bomb

    I haven't quite gotten down the IVs best needed for Venusaur for HP Fire, so you can see this poor excuse of a Venusaur I've gotten myself. If someone can help, it would be much appreciated.

    Standard sun sweep Venusaur, using Growth on a good switch in to get +2 and following up with respective STAB. HP Fire snipes Bug/Steels like Scizor or Forretress, and opposing Venusaurs. Modest lets it hit hard. LO makes it hit even harder, making a big difference. It has Giga Drain anyways so it's not so affected by LO recoil.

    Defensive EVs are the only one I need to explain: Why not HP? Mostly I looked at Venusaur's defence, didn't like it, so I gave my last stat point to it. I'm a very impulsive person.


    [​IMG]

    Beatrice (Blissey) (Female) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpD
    Bold Nature
    - Counter
    - Softboiled
    - Wish
    - Seismic Toss

    Blissey's job is often prediction. Occasionally physical attackers like Waterfall Kingdra (assuming he's too impatient to get DD up) can be countered and killed. Meanwhile, Seismic Toss everything else. Softboiled keeps her healthy, Wish is mostly for Wish-passing, especially to my poor dear Valentina. I have no idea whether Counter works off Attack IVs and am too lazy to check, so I hadn't switched it to 0 yet.

    Now I need to explain: Why Blissey? I've experimented with Eviolite Chansey for awhile, which was actually fairly successful. However, sometimes I would wish that I would get the small recovery from Leftovers, especially when I temp-switch into Chansey for the Wish-pass to Victini between stat changes. Blissey is not exactly that much more horrible than Eviolite Chansey, so I opted for Blissey just for the Leftovers.

    Meanwhile, I tried hax-Paraflinch Jirachi for awhile as well, which I tested at the same time as Chansey in my team. The main problem I found: It exacerbated my Fire weakness in my team, and even SpDefensive Jirachi found it hard to stare down certain moves. Lack of insta-recovery in Softboiled also hurt Jirachi, even if it can land the faster Wish, because Wish doesn't care about Speed. Heavier firepower, but less support. And Victini/Venusaur core gives all the firepower the team already needs.

    I thought about what Eranu said, and after modifying my team slightly, most of all changing my Donphan to a more physically resilient set, I decided that yes, the EV spread he wanted made more sense. Blissey could focus more on her role of being a Special Attack sponger, while not completely compromising on Defence. However, I decided to keep the moves for the time being, mostly because Softboiled has saved my ass too many times for me to consider taking it out, and I generally use Seismic Toss as opposed to Toxic as a main damage tool for Blissey, since on majority of opposing Pokemon Seismic Toss can do a 3HKO. And either way, the only Pokemon that I can't Seismic Toss to death which worries me (Gengar) is immune to Toxic anyways. Other ghost types in the tier don't really bother me overly, since I have ways to deal with them eg Jellicent.


    [​IMG]

    Deborah (Donphan) (Female) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 248 HP / 80 Atk / 176 Def / 4 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Shard
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rapid Spin

    I've finally come to the conclusion that offensive Donphan is bullshit. So now it's finally got some use, which switches the image away from a card into a proper picture, since now it's got a good and proper place in the team.

    Essentially Donphan is a dragon sniper and spinner, while serving as the premier physical sponge in the team. His EVs are set to boost his defenses while not compromising overly on his ability to snipe dragons, while the 1 speed point is just there to oppose any Eviolite Chansey which, for fun, decides that she wants a single speed point from EVs in Speed. Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin allow him to play entry hazards on our side, while Ice Shard is there to hit the Salamence or weakened Dragonite on the opposing side (more too, but these are the common ones, short of Gliscor, who honestly doesn't take much damage from Ice Shard anyways). Earthquake is the basic STAB.

    I tried using Mamoswine, who can hit harder since I gave it CB, but then the loss of entry hazard support greatly weakened the role of Whimsicott. While dragons were falling like flies, everything else took much more a beating, and half the time Mamoswine died throwing out a single Ice Shard. So I made the switch back to Donphan.

    Wish has also shown great synergy with Donphan. What makes him so incredible is his ability to step in and Wish snipe Pokemon like Terrakion, who takes him down to 30% with Close Combat unsupported (who immediately gets healed to full) or to 1% with Sturdy if boosted (and gets healed to full anyway). Sturdy and Wish is an excellent combination. Donphan is nigh unkillable with careful play with Blissey, and serves to complete the defensive core of the team to back up the offensive core centered around Victini and Venusaur. The utility of defensive Donphan cannot be underestimated, since his damage isn't exactly shabby either.


    [​IMG]

    Wyoming (Wobbuffet) (Female) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 28 HP / 232 Def / 248 SpD
    Bold Nature
    - Encore
    - Counter
    - Mirror Coat
    - Safeguard​

    With most of the Pokemon becoming increasingly one-dimensional, Wobbuffet has come up as one of the premier revenge killers of my team, substituting Dugtrio who once tried for awhile in that spot until I realised I have absolutely no idea how Dugtrio works. In contrast to Dugtrio, Wobbuffet could actually stand up to hits and wasn't a one-trick pony that died to a revenge kill priority/scarfer immediately after taking down something. Furthermore, most Pokemon are increasingly straightforward (look: Rotom-W = Safeguard against Will-O-Wisp -> Mirror Coat etc, I love using Rotom-W as an example because he's the most one-dimensional often used Pokemon I see in teams), which makes Wobbuffet's job much simpler.

    Her Bold Nature was chosen mostly because unlike Blissey, Donphan isn't exactly the most solid physical tank, needing support. In this strongly physical dominated game, I would rather get a stronger anti-physical firepower than try to replace the job of Blissey, who generally forces their special type Pokemon to go into setup or switch out anyways. EVs are rather normal for a Wobbuffet.

    Just to show how powerful she was, I accidentally placed her EVs wrong when I first put her in my team (whoops) and planted all the Defence EVs into Attack instead. And still she was killing other Pokemon like she didn't care for about 3 games before I realised the error. Definitely a great change for Whimsicott, and as such she inherits the name Wyoming, as Whimsicott did before her.

    The only problem is that most of the time the weather starters are rather varied in their moveset (eg Tyranitar can suddenly pop out of nowhere with a Fire Blast SpA variant) which means that sometimes I may have to make decisions I don't want. Tyranitar is the key problem here because if I don't go straight for the Counter I would get 2HKO by the Crunch. Meanwhile Politoed packs really varied builds such as Stall Politoed, Specs Politoed etc. Half the time I wish for a Choice set, but then I meet Stall so much that I end up having no chance but to open Safeguard against Politoed. Fortunately in the case of a false prediction I can take a Hydro Pump, switch out to Blissey for the Wish and heal my Wobbuffet back, knowing the next encounter will be simple.





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  2. Alexander.

    Alexander.

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,837
    Hello,

    At first, I'd use Ninetales with a special defensive evs spread and with Will-O-Wisp, I think that special defensive Ninetales is better than your current Ninetales here because it can switch-in on Politoed more easily and it can, in general, takes more hits. Then, I found a weakness to Heatran, in fact, it can destroy your team easily (Donphan can't switch-in on it) and it blocks your sweepers. I believe that Whimsicott is the most useless pokèmon in your team, it's nice okay, but it isn't very useful so I'd use Dugtrio in place of it because Dugtrio kills Heatran easily.

    Set(s):

    Show Hide


    [​IMG]
    Ninetales (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 120 SDef / 136 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Sunny Day
    - Flamethrower
    - Protect

    [​IMG]
    Dugtrio (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Reversal


    Hope I helped with this rate, good luck!

    ~Alexander
  3. Shiny Charizard

    Shiny Charizard

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2012
    Messages:
    46
    Team Rate

    Hey, nice team. I have a few suggestions here.

    Specially defensive Ninetales as mentioned above. It lets you take hits better, and still does a decent amount of damage with attacks.

    Change Victini's spread to 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP. 16 HP EV's really doesn't do much. However, 252 Spe EV's keeps you as agile as possible, which is never a bad thing.

    I think that rather than replacing Whismicott, you could change Venusaur's set to the mixed set with Earthquake, as this may catch opposing Heatran off guard. But either way, Whismicott doesn't seem to be entirely pulling its weight, so I recommend using Mamoswine in its place. If you're looking for more support rather than offense, Latias can replace Whismicott. Latias can support your team, and it is also a decent check to rain. Whismicott doesn't have to be your answer to Deoxys-D style teams. Any Rapid Spinner can decently ruin the idea of them. The best at countering Deoxys-D teams is probabaly Starmie, as it is powerful and fast, and can Rapid Spin to lure out a Spinblocker (usually Gengar) and then kill it with one of its attacks. But Starmie doesn't belong on this team, so you can forget what I just said.

    Finally, if you feel as if though Donphan needs to go, I would use Xatu in its place. Xatu is decently bulky, and Magic Bounce is just amazing, as it shuts down Deoxys-D style teams by using their own hazards against them. Xatu can also "set up Stealth Rock" for you because of Magic Bouncing the opponent's Stealth Rock. It also has a variety of support moves.

    Xatu @ Leftovers
    EV's: 248 HP, 204 Def, 56 Spe
    Nature: Bold
    Moves:
    -Thunder Wave
    -U-Turn
    -Roost
    -Heat Wave/Reflect

    This set seems totally fitting, as it is bulky and can last. Thunder Wave allows you to use Banded Adamant Victini with max speed EV's to full effect, as when the opponent is paralyzed, Victini will be able to outspeed them and hit hard and those faster opponents. U-Turn can let Victini scout into Xatu, so U-Turn on Xatu can enable it to scout into Victini right after the paralyze. Roost is instant recovery. Finally, Heat Wave or Reflect is your choice. Heat Wave is extremely powerful under your sun, but Reflect can support Blissey and your whole team.

    That's all I got, nice team. Welcome to Smogon, by the way.
  4. D i a b l o

    D i a b l o Guest

    Hi,
    I love Whimsicott <3 anyway I think that Blissey is useless for u team because him lose momentum; after that, I advice you to put StunSpore>Taunt to Whimsicott because u still dangerous treath for sunnyteam like Landorus-Special (after rpolish) and Dragon (for Deo-D u have Donphan).
    Other thing to tell u is that you have a few pokemon to close the game and Hetran gives you problems so I advice you to put SubsalacKion/DoubleDancerKion>Blissey.
    While for Victini, because u havn't revengekill, u can change his set in Scarfer.
    Okay, finally I advice you to follow the advise of alexander (change Niinetales set in SDefender).
  5. Eranu

    Eranu

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2011
    Messages:
    376
    Hi, nice team.

    First of all, Heatran walls you all day. Your only way of taking it out is Donphan's Earthquake, but Donphan gets KO'd by Fire Blast before that, and Blissey's Seismic Toss which I don't think is a move you can rely on to KO Heatran since if the opponent decides to carry a offensive Heatran, Blissey gets 2HKO'd in sun by Fire Blast. Now, Whimsicott seems a little redundant on this team. The only thing it does is taunt Deoxys-D and Leech Seed random threats which I don't think is something this team really needs. A better filler for that slot would be something that can take out Heatran, since Heatran is most team's answer to Sun. Terrakion > Whimsicott could be a solution. Terrakion is also good to have versus sand teams, which your team is somewhat weak to. The reason to replace Whimsicott is in your own description. Whimsicott is annoying, but it doesn't have a niche on your team thus I find it unnecessary. Seeing as how you lack a revenge killer outside of sun, and seeing how DD Dragons, able to live an Ice Shard, can be troublesome, a scarf set seems like the best idea here. Terrakion also has great synergy with Victini, seeing as Victini's most common switch ins: Salamence, Dragonite, Tyranitar and Heatran are all dealt with by Terrakion.

    Next up, another threat to most sun teams, including your team is CM Latias. It can just set up Calm Minds on every member of your team baring Victini, on which it can just Sub up to avoid getting hit by U-turn or stall out some V-creates. A small change can solve this problem. Changing Counter > Toxic on Blissey while also changing Softboiled > Protect. In order to beat Latias, Blissey will need Toxic. Counter seems like the most replaceable move since Blissey shouldn't take physicall hits. I also think having both Wish + Softboiled isn't necessary. Seeing as how your Ninetales set is quite offensive and you carry Victini, Wish support can come in really helpful. Now, in order for this set to beat Latias I made you a custom ev spread for Chansey. a spread of 252 HP / 100 Sp Def / 156 Def allows you to wall a +6 Latias with Wish. A +6 Dragon Pulse will only do a max of 49% allowing Blissey to Wish + Protect stall it till Toxic damage kills it or it is forced to switch. Now as to how to get it Toxic'd, I'll explain that: Just Seismic Toss it till you force it to Roost and then Toxic it on that turn. Another reason to pick Wish + Protect > Softboiled if you want to toxic stall is, that Wish + Protect have a combined PP of 32, while softboiled only has 16.

    Lastly, I would recommend running max speed on Victini. Speed tieing with base 100's is something that could save you. This is however just a preferance of mine.
    Hope I helped. Good luck !

    ~Sets:

    Show Hide
    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake / Rock Slide
    - X-Scissor

    Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Toxic
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Seismic Toss
  6. Grimmedslug

    Grimmedslug

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2012
    Messages:
    2
    Edit: Well, I tried to address most of the glaring issues out in my newly edited OP. My team has generally taken on a pretty drastic turn out of the pivot Pokemon(s), which frankly makes it almost like a completely new team. Although I highly doubt there will be much new comments now that this has fallen out of front page.

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