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Garbodor (BW2 Update) [QC 3/3] [GP 0/2]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by The NU Tuber, Jun 10, 2013.

  1. The NU Tuber

    The NU Tuber

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    [​IMG]
    Trash Boat

    skeleton (open)
    [Overview]
    • Garbodor's main niche in the meta is that of a bulky hazard setter
    • Has access to both forms of Spikes/the bulk to survive a few hits and reliably set them up
    • Decent defensive typing that gives it key resistances and the ability to absorb opposing T-Spikes
    • Base 95 Attack lets it dish an attack or two if it needs to
    • Poison typing a double-edged sword; gives it weaknesses to two extremely common attacking types in NU
    • Faces stiff competition as a Spiker from Scolipede, who is much more offensive and packs STAB Megahorn to ward off Psychics
    • However, no other Spiker is as bulky and reliable as Garbodor
    [SET]
    name: Spikes
    move 1: Spikes
    move 2: Toxic
    move 3: Pain Split / Toxic Spikes
    move 4: Rock Blast / Gunk Shot
    item: Rocky Helmet / Black Sludge
    ability: Aftermath
    nature: Impish
    evs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Garbodor’s best set in the current meta
    • Focuses on Garbo’s utility, bulk, and typing to the fullest
    • Spikes is Garbo’s best way to support its team especially w/ the switches it forces, making it a staple
    • Toxic is a great way to cripple walls/force them to heal, letting Garbo escape
    • Pain Split is its most reliable form of recovery
    • Important as Garbo’s survivability is its main niche over Scolipede
    • Toxic Spikes are another option for further team support, but PS is usually preferred as it lets Garbo stick around for a while/you already have Toxic on this set anyway
    • Rock Blast is a good choice as an attacking option b/c of its great utility, notably hitting stuff like Armaldo, Scolipede and Haunter
    • Gunk Shot is another good option that gets STAB/the ability to touch Fighting-types like Sawk and Primeape
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Physically defensive EV spread to make the most out of Garbo’s resistances to Close Combat/Megahorn
    • 16 Speed EVs outspeed max Speed Golem so you can set up more Spikes
    • Rocky Helmet punishes many physical attackers Garbo likes to switch in against (Fighting-types, Scolipede, etc.), and makes sure Primeape can't just U-turn out for free
    • Works well in conjunction w/ Aftermath when stacking up residual damage, even when Garbo is low on health
    • Black Sludge is an option for passive recovery, focusing more on Garbo's survivability
    • Air Balloon can be used for a one-time Ground immunity, but Garbo loses to most Ground-types even w/ Air Balloon, and only works once
    • Garbo has several interesting other options in the last two slots
    • Seed Bomb could be used to dent Grounds such as Seismitoad and Golem
    • Clear Smog prevents you from being set-up fodder
    • Protect is useful for scouting/Toxic stalling, but Garbo doesn't generally have room for these moves
    • If you opt to use T-Spikes, Ground-types make good partners to combat Poison-types/set up SR
    • Lacks reliable recovery, so a Wish passer is recommended to make up for that
    • Alomomola is a good partner as it can provide Wish support and handles Ground-types with ease
    • Lickilicky/Audino are also good partners, providing Heal Bell support as well
    • Sweepers also appreciate Garbo’s presence to abuse the Spikes that Garbo provides
    • Samurott/CM Serperior/Sawsbuck are great examples, with decent type synergy and both can easily dispose of Grounds with their STABs (SD Samurott can also beat Psychics w/ Megahorn)
    • Finally, spinblockers make great partners to keep Garbo’s Spikes on the field
    • Misdreavus is arguably the best partner w/ its immunity to Ground/threatens out Psychics
    • Works on many kinds of teams b/c of its many uses, and can prove to be a key team player as long as you support it right
    [Other Options]
    • Any offensive set is far outclassed by Scolipede
    • A suicide lead w/ Weak Armor could work, and does somewhat separate itself from Scoli, but wastes Garbo's good bulk and resistances
    • Can use Explosion, but its longevity is its main selling point
    • Has a fairly wide special movepool, but an awful Special Attack to abuse it with
    • Has several setup options (Curse, Stockpile, Amnesia), but Curse doesn’t bring out Garbo’s best potential and the latter two are just a waste of a moveslot
    • Also has access to Rock Polish, but is again outclassed by Scolipede who also can boost its Speed w/ Agility
    • Can set up Rain Dance/Sunny Day, but it has far better things to be doing
    • Substitute is a decent option, but doesn’t have the room for it and would rather use free turns to set up Spikes
    • Finally, RestTalk can be used as an alternative form of recovery, but Garbo loses far too much utility for this to work
    [Checks and Counters]
    • Ground-types, such as Golurk/Golem/Seismitoad, can easily switch in anything but Seed Bomb and smash it w/ their STABs
    • Bulky Psychics, such as Musharna, can take anything Garbo throws and threaten it out
    • The frailer Psychics (Jynx, Gardevoir) can check Garbo as well, but have difficulty tanking Gunk Shot
    • Most powerful special attackers can beat Garbo 1v1, w/ Garbo’s more physically-inclined nature
    • Ghost-types (Missy/Haunter) are immune to Spikes, resist Gunk Shot, and can either Taunt in Missy’s case or set up a Sub in Haunter’s
    • However, Haunter must beware of Rock Blast which will break its Subs
    • Bulky Rock/Steel-types laugh at Garbo’s attacks and can hurt it with their Ground coverage moves
    • Spinners can get rid of Garbo's Spikes, defeating its purpose on a team
    [Overview]

    <p>As the saying goes, "one man’s trash is another man's treasure," and Garbodor is a perfect example of that. Garbodor has sealed itself a niche in NU as a bulky hazard setter; with access to Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and the bulk to reliably set them up, it's not hard to see why. Its decent defensive typing also gives it key resistances as well as the ability to absorb opposing Toxic Spikes, making Garbodor a great supporter for its teammates. Thus, it is a very capable Spikes-setter in the metagame. Unfortunately for Garbodor, though, its typing is a double-edged sword; it also gives it weaknesses to two extremely common attacking types in NU. It also faces stiff competition as a Spiker from Scolipede, whose better offensive presence limits its viablility on many offensive teams. However, no other Spiker in the metagame is as bulky or reliable as Garbodor.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Spikes
    move 1: Spikes
    move 2: Toxic
    move 3: Pain Split / Toxic Spikes
    move 4: Rock Blast / Gunk Shot
    item: Rocky Helmet / Black Sludge
    ability: Aftermath
    nature: Impish
    evs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is Garbodor's best set in the metagame; it focuses on Garbodor’s utility, bulk, and typing to the fullest. Spikes is Garbodor's best way to support its team, particularly with the switches it commonly forces, making it a staple on this set. Toxic cripples walls that would normally have their way with Garbodor, such as Alomomola, letting Garbodor escape unscathed. Pain Split is Garbodor's most reliable form of recovery, which is important as Garbodor’s survivability is its main niche over Scolipede. Alternatively, Toxic Spikes can be used for further team support, but Pain Split is generally superior as it lets Garbodor stick around for a while. Besides, Toxic usually gets the job done anyway. The last moveslot prevents Garbodor from being Taunt fodder; Rock Blast is a great choice for the utility it provides, notably hitting common threats in the metagame such as Scolipede, Armaldo, and Haunter. Gunk Shot, on the other hand, provides a powerful STAB attack that hits decently hard of Garbodor's good Attack stat. Most notably, it allows Garbodor to touch Fighting-types such as Sawk and Primeape.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A physically defensive EV spread makes the most out of Garbodor's resistances to Close Combat and Megahorn, allowing Garbodor to set up in the face of common threats such as Sawk, Primeape, and Scolipede. 16 Speed EVs let Garbodor outspeed maximum Speed Golem&mdash;despite the fact that this set cannot touch Golem in any way whatsoever, it allows Garbodor to set up an extra layer of Spikes against it before dying to Earthquake. Rocky Helmet punishes many physical threats Garbodor likes to switch into, letting it stack up residual damage against them. Most importantly, it ensures Primeape can't just U-turn out against it for free. Rocky Helmet also works well in conjunction with Aftermath, letting it continuously stack up residual damage even when it's low on health. Black Sludge is also a viable alternative, providing passive recovery and focusing more on Garbodor's survivability. Air Balloon is another potential option for a one-time immunity to Ground, but Garbodor loses to most Ground-types even with an Air Balloon, and it only works once. Garbodor also has several interesting options in the last two slots, including Seed Bomb, Drain Punch, Clear Smog, and Protect. Seed Bomb lets Garbodor dent Ground-types such as Seismitoad and Golem; it also lets Garbodor make use of its particular Speed tier, outspeeding max Speed Golem and minimum Speed Seismitoad. Drain Punch allows Garbodor to touch Rock- and Steel-types, such as Probopass and Bastiodon, and provides a semi-reliable form or recovery. Clear Smog prevents Garbodor from being setup fodder, and Protect allows Garbodor to scout the opponent's next move and helps with Toxic stalling. However, Garbodor does not generally have room for any of these moves, and thus they are not preferred.</p>

    <p>If you are running Toxic Spikes, Ground-types make for good partners, as they both help combat the Poison-types that absorb them and set up Stealth Rock. Garbodor lacks reliable recovery, so a Wish passer is recommended to help make up for that. Alomomola is a good partner for this role, passing enormous Wishes as well as handling Ground-types that threaten Garbodor with relative ease. Lickilicky and Audino are also good partners, providing decent defensive synergy and Heal Bell support as well. Sweepers also appreciate Garbodor's presence on a team to abuse the Spikes that Garbodor provides. Examples include Samurott, Serperior, and Sawsbuck, who all provide decent type synergy and the ability to dispose of Ground-types with their STABs. As a bonus, Swords Dance Samurott can even take out Psychic-types with Megahorn. Finally, Ghost-types make great partners to spinblock and keep Garbodor's Spikes on the field. Misdreavus is arguably the best partner for this role, as it handles Ground-types thanks to Levitate and keeps Psychic-types in check with STAB Shadow Ball. Garbodor works on many different kinds of teams because of its many uses, and proves to be a key team player just so long as you support it right.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Garbodor does not have many other viable options to choose from. Almost any offensive set it could possibly run is far outclassed by Scolipede, who is much faster and packs a wider offensive movepool. However, if you're really desperate, a suicide lead with Weak Armor does have some potential; however, this wastes Garbodor's good bulk and resistances, and honestly, save yourself some trouble and just use Scolipede if you want to go down this route. In a similar vein, Explosion can be used, but Garbodor's longevity is its main selling point. Garbodor has a wide special movepool including moves such as Sludge Bomb, Thunderbolt, Giga Drain, and even Acid Spray but it has an awful Special Attack to abuse it with. It has several setup options, including Curse, Stockpile, Amnesia, and Rock Polish. However, Curse does not bring out Garbodor's best potential, Stockpile and Amnesia are just wastes of a moveslot, and Rock Polish is again outclassed by Scolipede, who has access to Agility. Garbodor can set up Rain Dance and Sunny Day, but doesn’t benefit from either of them and has far better things to be doing. Substitute is a viable option, but Garbodor doesn’t have the room for it, and would rather use free turns to set up Spikes. Finally, RestTalk can be used as a form of recovery if Pain Split doesn't cut it, but Garbodor loses far too much utility by doing so.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>You could always just wait for the garbageman to come. Jokes aside, Ground-types can easily come in on anything but the rare Seed Bomb and dispose of Garbodor with their STABs. Bulky Psychic-types, such as Musharna, have little to fear from Garbodor and can set up in its face. Frailer Psychics, such as Gardevoir and Jynx, can also check it well, but have difficulty switching in on an attack. Most special attackers can beat Garbodor one-on-one, due to Garbodor's more physically-inclined nature. Ghost-types, such as Misdreavus and Haunter, are immune to Spikes, resist Garbodor's STAB, and can set up on it, but Haunter must beware of Rock Blast. Rock- and Steel-types laugh at anything Garbodor throws at them and can dispose of it with their Ground-type coverage moves. Finally, Rapid Spin users can get rid of Garbodor's Spikes, defeating its purpose on a team. Additionally, all the viable spinners in the tier are capable of defeating Garbodor one-on-one, as Armaldo, Torkoal, and Wartortle are all bulky enough to take repeated Rock Blasts or Gunk Shots from it and whittle it down.</p>
  2. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
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    Actually, Toxic Spikes may be worth placing in AC as an option for the last slot. Not every team runs a grounded Poison-type, and Rock Blast somewhat deters Scolipede as well. In the same vein, Toxic is also a option that can go in OO or even AC. With Toxic Spikes, a Ground-type like Golurk or Golem become great teammates not only to take out Poison-types, but set up Stealth Rock as well. A Weak Armor Spike/offensive set might be worth placing in OO, since its not great, but it is better than many of the other bullets in OO.
  3. The NU Tuber

    The NU Tuber

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    Thanks WhiteDMist, implemented your changes (I put Toxic in OO for now; I'll let QC decide where it should go)
  4. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent come at me winter
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    Please give Garbodor the 16 Speed EVs as the main spread. The loss of bulk is minimal and it's not Speed creeping if you're using them to outspeed a max EVd Pokemon. Even if you can't damage it it's more crucial that you can set up an extra layer of hazards on it.

    Speaking of hazards, Toxic Spikes need to be up on the main set, and not tucked away in AC. If your opponent has a Poison type you simply wait until it's dead, or if you don't set them up, that's ok too. But the sheer utility Toxic Spikes have in wearing down walls such as Alomomola, Tangela and Lickilicky, tanks such as Golem and Golurk, Life Orb sweepers such as Jynx and Serperior, not to mention entire rain teams is far, far too good to pass up. I run Toxic Spikes on nearly all my teams, and contrary to popular belief they're not useless if your opponent has a spinner or Poison-type, or if you only get one layer up. The set I use is Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Pain Split, filler. They obviously shouldn't be slashed with Spikes as dual hazards are too good and you can pick between the two if you see which one punishes the opponent more. I don't see the point really in running more than one attack, as Garbodor's purpose is to spew out as many hazards as possible before dying, which Pain Split helps accomplish. Rock Blast is generally my preferred move, but the others obviously all have their uses. I think you can remove Drain Punch and Seed Bomb though and replace them with Giga Drain, as it does more to Pokemon such as Golem. Obviously to be usee with a Bold nature.
  5. Joim

    Joim All promises become a lie, all that's bening corrups in time
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    I was just going to comment that Toxic Spikes need a slash, as if the opposing team has no Poison-type alive they will slowly dent it and they'll make a difference. I'm not really fond of using Rocky Helmet as the first option for a bulky utility Pokémon, I'd rather have it be Black Sludge since Garbodor uses it well to survive more to put help the team more.

    I don't see the point on running more than one attack either, also I'd put Giga Drain over Seed Bomb to deal with Golem and other Grass-type weak Pokémon:
    0- SpA Garbodor Giga Drain vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Golem: 184-220 (51.97 - 62.14%) -- 98.05% chance to 2HKO
    0 Atk Garbodor Seed Bomb vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Golem: 180-212 (50.84 - 59.88%) -- 84.38% chance to 2HKO
    Not only it deals more damage but it helps Garbodor with it's small recovery problem. Giga Drain could be used over Pain Split, but the latter is usually more reliable. You'd use a Bold nature, but you can see that even with negative nature it's superior to seed bomb.
  6. Amarillo

    Amarillo
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    I was under the impression that Rock Blast is the most common offensive move for Garbodor. Garbodor is not meant to usually attack, and a free attack you could get off is better replaced by the persistent threat of Spikes.

    But then there's the problem of Garbodor not being able to directly hurt an opposing sawk, which does kind of suck...
  7. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    Garbodor should be using a 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe spread with an Impish nature for the reasons that CherubAgent stated.

    Toxic Spikes should definitely be included in there as even though Scolipede is really common, it also doesn't last too long in a battle since it's weak to Stealth Rock and might end up playing a suicide lead for Spikes.

    The set should look like this:
    [SET]
    name: Spikes
    move 1: Spikes
    move 2: Toxic
    move 3: Pain Split / Toxic Spikes
    move 4: Rock Blast / Gunk Shot
    item: Rocky Helmet / Black Sludge
    ability: Aftermath
    nature: Impish
    evs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe

    Add Seed Bomb, Clear Smog, and Protect to Additional Comments. Seed Bomb lets you hit Golurk, Golem, Carracosta, and Seismitoad, Clear Smog prevents you from being set-up fodder, and Protect lets you stall with Toxic and scout Pokemon.

    [Overview]
    • Remove the first 3 points. Instead mention that Garbodor's niche is being a physically bulky Pokemon with Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and survivability.

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Remove the last two points as they are no longer main options

    • Change the order of Rock Blast and Gunk shot. They should be the last things talked about and Rock Blast before Gunk Shot. Mention that Rock Blast is mainly to hit Scolipede and break Haunter's Substitutes. Say that Gunk Shot's advantage over Rock Blast is being able to hit Sawk and Primeape.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Out of the first 4 points the remove the last 3. Mention that 16 Spe EVs allow Garbodor to outspeed max Speed Golem.

    • Mention that Rocky Helmet specifically punishes Fighting-type Pokemon such as Sawk, Primeape, and Gurdurr. Mention how Rocky Helmet also makes sure that Primeape doesn't U-turn out for free. Also mention that Rocky Helmet + Aftermath can rack up a lot of damage on anything and can make Garbodor useful even at low HP.

    • Remove the mention of TSpikes since it's a main move now.

    • Add Sawsbuck to the list of Pokemon that pair well with Garbodor. Sawsbuck + Garbodor cover each others weaknesses and Sawsbuck very much appreciates Spikes.

    [Other Options]
    • Remove Toxic from here. It is a really good move on Garbodor, hence why it is the main slash for move 2.

    [Checks and Counters]
    • Specify that Haunter can only set up a Substitute on Garbodor if it is using Gunk Shot instead of Rock Blast

    Implement pls.
  8. FLCL

    FLCL
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    @ ebeast you should slash toxic spikes over pain split instead of toxic because the latter is way too important for hitting bulky pokemon when the opponent has a toxic spikes absorber.
  9. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    @FLCL hi

    ok.
  10. The NU Tuber

    The NU Tuber

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    Implemented all the above changes.
  11. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    Add Seed Bomb, Clear Smog, and Protect to Additional Comments. The reasons for them I put in my last post.

    [qc]1/3[/qc]
  12. The NU Tuber

    The NU Tuber

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    Implemented, ready for the next check!
  13. tennisace

    tennisace
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    [​IMG]

    ready for writeup
  14. The NU Tuber

    The NU Tuber

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    The write-up is now finished, ready for the 3rd QC check! :)
  15. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
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    in checks and counters, I'd clarify that Garbodor can't hurt the most common spinners, and loses 1v1 against them. Torkoal, Armaldo, and Wartortle can all switch in and spin. It's rock blast isn't going to do too much damage. And the former have earth power and earthquake, respectively, to dish damage back.

    Also for the overview, it seems a little bit fluffy at times. I want to know what Garbodors role is (bulky spiker) and how good it is at it (very good). It's attack stat isn't really relevant at all, even if it was quite a bit weaker it would still be used. Scolipede's STAB megahorn definitely doesn't belong in a Garbodor overview. Mentions of Scolipede should be limited to how it makes garbodor less viable on offensive teams.

    Fix these and i'll stamp this!
  16. The NU Tuber

    The NU Tuber

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    Implemented Raseri's changes.
  17. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
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  18. The NU Tuber

    The NU Tuber

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    Now ready for GP!

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