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Garbodor (Update)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by SuperJOCKE, May 6, 2012.

  1. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    [​IMG]
    Garbodor

    [Overview]

    <p>Garbodor, despite its appearance, is not complete trash. It is actually a great Pokemon in the NU tier, and is the best Pokemon that can use both Spikes and Toxic Spikes available. Garbodor also has a good defensive typing to go with its supporting role. Poison typing gives it useful resistances to Fighting-, Grass-, and Poison-type moves, and allows Garbodor to actually absorb the opponent's Toxic Spikes as well. Garbodor has respectable bulk as well, boasting 80 / 82 / 82 defensive stats allowing it to be either physically or specially defensive depending on its team's needs. Garbodor has good Attack and Speed stats for such a defensivly oriented Pokemon, allowing it to hit hard with its powerful STAB Gunk Shot, while outspeeding many other defensive Pokemon. However, everything is not good for Garbodor. Its movepool is really shallow, and is basically limited to Gunk Shot, Clear Smog, and Rock Blast. Garbodor has no recovery outside of Rest, and that makes it difficult to keep Garbodor alive, especially because it is weak to the common Ground- and Psychic-type moves; it has to avoid Pokemon such as Golem, Musharna, and Gardevoir on a daily basis. However, Garbodor makes great use of what little it has available, and no Pokemon can match it when it comes to its main task.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Spikes
    move 1: Spikes
    move 2: Toxic Spikes
    move 3: Gunk Shot
    move 4: Clear Smog / Rock Blast
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Stench
    nature: Impish
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>As the most reliable user of both Spikes and Toxic Spikes in the tier, this set is a given. With great bulk and defensive typing, Garbodor has no trouble getting several layers of each entry hazard up. Gunk Shot is Garbodor's best STAB move at disposal, as its bad Special Attack makes it unable to use Sludge Bomb effectively. Despite its low accuracy, Gunk Shot's high Base Power more than makes up for it, being able to KO big threats such as Exeggutor and Ludicolo. Clear Smog, while being rather weak and redundant with Gunk Shot, serves a useful purpose: to remove any stat boosts the opponent might have acquired. However, Rock Blast is useful, as it allows Garbodor to break through the opponent's troublesome Substitutes which is extremely helpful against Pokemon such as Haunter. Rock Blast is also Garbodor's most reliable answer to Cryogonal.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>In Garbodor's shallow movepool lies a few other useful moves. Body Slam is the most prominent one, as the chance of paralyzing a foe is always helpful. Protect is also good for Garbodor, especially if it is used on a stall team, as it allows Garbodor to recover health with Leftovers while stalling the opponent with poison damage. In a similar vein, Toxic can also work over Toxic Spikes for inflicting immediate Toxic status to the opponent, and is especially useful if you only want to set up Spikes. A physically defensive spread is chosen to make it easier for Garbodor to switch in on moves such as Close Combat from Sawk, but a specially defensive EV spread is perfectly viable as well. Even though Garbodor is weak to Psychic-type moves, which are more often special, it's also weak to Ground-type moves which are more often physical, so neither EV spread is better than the other. A specially defensive spread makes it easier for Garbodor to switch in on Grass-type moves that are also often specially oriented, as well as the rather common Sludge Bomb from the likes of Vileplume and Amoonguss. Focus Blast becomes easier to tank as well. A more offensive spread can also be used to make Garbodor hit harder with Gunk Shot. While it won't be able to take hits as well when doing so, Garbodor is now able to hit Pokemon such as Exeggutor and Gorebyss much harder.</p>

    <p>Garbodor pairs well with Absol—Absol can easily take on every Psychic-type in the tier with its STAB Dark-type moves, while Garbodor resists Fighting-type moves directed at Absol and its Spikes and Toxic Spikes help Absol break down bulkier opponents. Skuntank is also good option, filling the same role as Absol, but shares a Ground-type weakness with Garbodor. Cacturne is also a good replacement as it also resists Ground-type moves. Exeggutor also appreciates the entry hazards Garbodor sets up, while it resists both Psychic- and Ground-type moves. Cleric and Wish support is crucial if you want Garbodor to be able to set up its entry hazards more than once during a match. Miltank and Lickilicky are both good options, with Lickilicky being able to pass Wishes as well while both benefit from Garbodor's Fighting-type resistance. Leafeon is another great option. While its Wishes aren't as huge as Lickilicky's, Leafeon has a useful resistance to Ground-type moves. A Ghost-type Pokemon, most notably Misdreavus, is almost a must for Garbodor, as it helps keeping Spikes and Toxic Spikes on the opponent's side of the field by blocking Rapid Spin. Misdreavus has access to Heal Bell as well, while it is immune to Ground-type moves and hits Psychic-types hard with its super effective Shadow Ball. Most other sweepers besides the aforementioned Absol, such as Magmortar, Samurott, and Charizard, benefit greatly from the support Garbodor provides as it helps in bringing down bulkier Pokemon. This is especially useful for Pokemon such as Magmortar and Charizard as they usually don't carry moves to boost their stats. Garbodor is also a great staple for most stall oriented teams, as Spikes and Toxic Spikes are great for wearing down the opponent in the stalling process.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Garbodor can utilize a faster Spikes set with the use of Weak Armor to raise its Speed, acting more as a suicide lead than a defensive support planning to sticking around for long. Garbodor can also use Rest in combination with Chesto Berry to recover its health to keep setting up entry hazards, but it's generally an inferior strategy. Unlike Clear Smog, Haze hits through Substitute, allowing for a more reliable way to remove the opponent's potential stat boosts; however, Haze can only be used with Toxic Spikes as it's illegal with Spikes. Curse, Amnesia, and Stockpile can all be used to boost Garbodor's defense stats further, which can be useful. However, Garbodor's horrible physical movepool makes a Curse set a bad way to go with Garbodor. In a similar vein, Rock Polish will boost Garbdor's decent Speed to high levels, but again its physical movepool lets it down. Explosion is also an option, although it's best left until late in the battle. Garbodor's movepool consists of a few powerful special moves such as Sludge Bomb, Focus Blast, Thunderbolt, Psychic, and SolarBeam. However, Garbodor's low base 60 Special Attack stat makes it a bad user of these moves. Air Balloon can be used to avoid Garbodor being hit by Ground-type moves. While it's decent, Air Balloon is a one-use item and the recovery from Leftovers can be crucial most times and is often the preferred choice.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Most hard-hitting Pokemon will be able to break Garbodor either in one or two hits. Exeggutor, Musharna, and Gardevoir can hit Garbodor with their powerful Psychic. While Musharna can take repeated Gunk Shots and recover the damage, both Exeggutor and Gardevoir need to avoid being hit by Gunk Shot. Gardevoir has a really low Defense stat, while Exeggutor is weak to Gunk Shot and can has a slight chance to be OHKOed with prior Stealth Rock damage. Golem and Sawk have really powerful Earthquakes to take Garbdor down with, while Camerupt can aim at Garbodor's more often lower Special Defense stat with a powerful Earth Power. Misdreavus is another major threat to Garbodor as it can wear down Garbodor with Will-O-Wisp and Pain Split, while it resists Gunk Shot. Misdreavus can also stop any of Garbodor's attempts at setting up Spikes and Toxic Spikes with Taunt. Other faster Taunt users are a huge problem as well. Golbat, for example, is really bulky, resists Gunk Shot, and can successfully break Garbodor down with Super Fang and Brave Bird. Pokemon with respectable physical bulk, such as Gorebyss and Samurott, can set up on Garbodor lacking Clear Smog and blast away powerful STAB moves at it.</p>

    [Unreleased]

    <p>Garbodor receives Aftermath as its Dream World ability. Aftermath is much more useful than Stench on defensive versions of the Spikes set, as the only offensive moves Garbodor use, bar Body Slam, don't make physical contact and the potential extra damage is always useful.</p>
  2. Endorfins

    Endorfins Your Worst Nightmare
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    Personally, I prefer to have Clear Smog in the last slot. With Jynx gone, Rock Blast isn't that useful and Clear Smog is important for keeping Gurdurr and Scraggy at bay. Rock Blast can flinch with Stench so it is probably better than Body Slam.
  3. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    It's not a question about Clear Smog, rather Rock Blast vs. Body Slam. Clear Smog is a given.
  4. Endorfins

    Endorfins Your Worst Nightmare
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    Personally I'd have both in AC. But if anything were to have the slash in the last slot it would be Rock Slide.
  5. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
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    I'd mention Rest with a Chesto Berry or preferably cleric support from somewhere, as Garbodor really appreciates the recovery and there are so many good clerics in the tier, such as Altaria, Lickilicky, Vileplume, Misdreavus, etc. It really helps Garbodor's longevity on stall teams.
  6. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    Forgot about Wish support and such. Added.
  7. Django

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    "Only two weaknesses, though they are the common Grass- and Ground-types."

    I think you meant Psychic types?
    Anyway I've used Garbador loads recently so I think there are a few things that should be added.

    • Chesto Rest definitely needs some hype somwhere, when used correctly it can last for ages.
    • You should also mention how Rock Blast is the most reliable way Garbador has of beating Cryogonal.
    • Spinblocking support? Misdreavus is the best option, followed by...eh probably Drifblim or Frillish. Garbadors only purpose is to set up hazards, it needs to keep them up.
    • A mention of Protect, probably in AC. The extra Leftovers recovery, as well as a possible extra turn of Toxic Spikes damage on something can really really come in handy. It also makes prediction a lot easier against powerful choice users like Emboar.
    • Emphasise Garbadors role on a stall team, being the most viable T-Spikes and Spikes setter. Phazers will really rack up damage quickly so partners like Roar Altaria and Dragon Tail Lickilicky can do wonders.
    If I think of anything else I'll comment again later...
  8. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    Added ChestoRest to OO and a spinblocker mention. The rest is too nitpicky for a skeleton.

    I'll hold off on Protect so that QC can decide where to put it, if it needs to be mentioned.

    EDIT: I will mention what you said when I write this up though, just so we are clear.
  9. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
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    I'd put a mention of Protect in Other Options. Sure, it can be generally useful in stalling out opponents, but if I were to use it there'd probably be a lot of moments where I'd wish I had Clear Smog / Rock Blast / Body Slam / Rest instead. You could say that "if you don't find yourself using any of the options in the last slot, then Protect is useful for stacking Toxic damage on opponents, playing around Choiced Sawk, and gaining Leftovers recovery." or something along those lines.
  10. DTC

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    I'd put Protect in AC. I've seen it used very effectively and it's amazing for stall teams to be able to tell what move powerful choice attackers are using. The most effective stall teams that I've seen lately use like 3-4 Protect users.
  11. erisia

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    That's fair enough, I haven't seen a lot of Garbodor lately, so you're probably right.

    I think Weak Armor deserves a mention on the analysis, as although it's counter-productive on stall teams, it makes Garbodor a much better suicide-Spikes user on offense teams. With a Focus Sash, Garbodor is pretty much guaranteed to set up two layers of Spikes or Toxic Spikes against anything other than Golem, as it outspeeds even Swellow if it runs 188 Speed EVs and a Jolly nature. Pretty hilariously, Weak Armor lowers its Defense after each hit from a multi-hit move, so don't leave Weak Armor Garbodor in on their users under any circumstances. :p

    As Garbodor can somehow outrun Modest Scarf Rotom-S with max investment, the spread for the Weak Armor set should either be 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe Jolly or 252 HP / 68 Def / 188 Spe depending on whether you think this is important or not.
  12. tennisace

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    Imo you should mention a faster spread in AC, for those teams that want a fast spike vs other middling speed leads (for example, fast Torterra). I'll post more about it later because I have to run but just a quick mention would be good! The spread Erisia listed is good.
  13. No Luck Involved

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    Personally I don't find that Gunk Shot useful. It has poor PP and accuracy and it isn't very powerful either coming from no investment. I find Rock Blast is a much more useful attacking option to beat Ninjask, still hits Cryogonal very hard and doing a decent amount to Armaldo + flinch chance. The only thing that really fears Gunk Shot is probably pure Grass types like Serperior, which are rare and can abuse the accuracy to set up Subs or something anyway. As an offensive option I actually prefer Toxic!

    Also 16 Spe EVs allow Garbodor to outspeed fully invested neutral Golem, it's a minimal investment so I think it's worth it to have that peace of mind.
  14. Zebraiken

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    Just to clarify things for SuperJOCKE: Put Protect in AC.

    I've been playing a ton with this set lately and I'm going to write it up later. Don't worry about mentioning faster spreads or Weak Armor just quite yet, SuperJOCKE.
  15. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    So this should be ready for QC checks now then? Since Zeb will do that faster set, it should be all set. I really don't want to be too specific in a skeleton.
  16. erisia

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    Yep, if Zeb's writing that set up, I'd say this is good to go. :)

    QC APPROVED 1/3
  17. Steamroll

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    QC APPROVED 2/3
  18. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken is it true what they say, that words are weapons?
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    Make sure to clarify that Garbodor will actually outspeed any Exeggutor with little or no Speed investment (it needs at least 164 Spe EVs to outrun Garbodor) and has a 30% chance to OHKO Exeggutor with Gunk Shot after SR damage (you have it listed in checks & counters so yeah). Also, mention Toxic somewhere since it does have some utility (nailing spinners like Cryogonal, especially if you aren't using Rock Blast, etc.).

    QC APPROVED (3/3)
  19. alexwolf

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    Why would you want to hit Cryogonal with Rock Blast or Toxic? Rock Blast hits on average for less than Gunk Shot, which ohkoes max HP Cryo after SR anyway...
  20. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    I'll make any adjustments accordingly when I write this, Eggy for example. But I'll add Toxic.

    Thanks QC guys.
  21. Zebraiken

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    Both can OHKO Cryogonal on average after SR regardless; Rock Blast is simply the more accurate option.
  22. DTC

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    Add offensive Garbodor to AC. It may seem like a silly idea, but Gunk Shot is quite powerful and it's a decent offensive Spikes user. (Which, other than Cacturne, there is no good offensive Spikes user.)

    I've had some success with offensive Garbodor. Not much, however, but still enough to at least warrant an AC mention.
  23. alexwolf

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    So why list Toxic for Cryo if he is ohkoed by 2 moves in the main set?
  24. Django

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    Just something I've noticed while playing with it in the last few days, Air Baloon is actually a really good item on Garbador. It allows guaranteed layers of Spikes on common leads like Golem and Torterra, and a useful immunity to switch in on. Leftovers is probably superior when not using heavy team (read: Wish) support, but I reckon Baloon still deserves an AC (or OO) mention, particularly for a more offensive set.
  25. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    I'll put Air Balloon in OO, and then depending on what Zeb does with his faster spread, it will either sta there or be removed.

    Unless it's is something major you really want me to adress, please wait until is written.

    It may take awhile as my articles has prio 1 right now.

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