Garchomp (Analysis)

[whistle]

I don't understand the use of Leftovers numbers in this case, because the optimization problem is overall defenses while the constraint is a small amount of Speed EVs. Leftovers numbers are only useful when the constraint is a large amount (>256) of non-HP EVs, in which case you have to maximize the efficiency of each quadruple of HP EVs you choose to invest. in this case, we aren't constrained by the need to save too many EVs for Atk/Def/etc which means it is more efficient to just maximize HP.

the only deviation from this would be when there is a specific threat that you need to cover on either the physical or special side (to avoid a 3HKO or something). in that case, you would compromise overall defenses to enhance one specific defense. but if there is nothing of that sort, maximizing HP is best.

 

[Chou Toshio]

ok, duely noted. :P

 

[Alan]

bumping this

although i dont really play that much anymore so my testing isn't in depth or whatever ive been playing around with a RestTalk Shuffler Chomp set.

Garchomp (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Sand Veil
EVs: 160 HP / 156 Def / 192 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Dragon Tail
- Swords Dance


its supposed to work well with spikes and sr support and basically resttalk with SD gets you either massively high attack stat or you get to shuffle whatever switches in. the EVs are probably off and not optimized. i used X-Acts applett, for a faster set, and with 270 evs leftover (reaching 330 speed to outpace +spe base 100s ie mence, rachi etc) with a more physically defensive EV spread it suggested 172 hp/96 def/240 spe @ jolly but im not sure how well that would work since it would have considerably less bulk.. anywho yeah i guess someone who has more konwledge of gen 5 and more time/interest than me should test this but i think it has potential.

 

[Chomper The Sharptooth]

bumping this

although i dont really play that much anymore so my testing isn't in depth or whatever ive been playing around with a RestTalk Shuffler Chomp set.

Garchomp (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Sand Veil
EVs: 160 HP / 156 Def / 192 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Dragon Tail
- Swords Dance

I haven't tested this yet, but I could imagine Dragon Dance working over Swords Dance. Seeing as Dragon Tail has regular priority when selected by Sleep Talk being able to outspeed everything but priority and shuffle them for less damage. Still has problems with Nattorei, Erufuun, and other Iron Barbs/Mischievous Heart pokemon. I think DW Shanderaa would make a good partner when he is released.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Garchomp doesn't learn Dragon Dance-- and I've already written about a potential Sleep Talk / Rest / Dragon Tail set in additional options. I don't think it deservers its own set, especially since there's been relatively little record of the sets success.

I've only done some cursory testing and didn't find it too good (though it's not bad).

 

[Megan_Fox]

LO should get slashed on the SD set or atleast an AC mention, the power boost is nice.

 

[Snunch]

On Chomp Tank, using 76 EVs in defense allows Chomp to always survive an adamant dory +2 EQ, so taking 16 EVs out of SpD and moving them to Def should make the spread more metagame-geared.

 

[Chou Toshio]

upgraded from skeleton to full writeup, and awaiting QC checks :D

 

[panamaxis]

Everything looks great to me.
Quality Control Approved (1/2)

 

[Fireburn]

Quality Control Approved (2/2)

Nice job.

 

[iDunno]

I would condense the Overview if I were you. It doesn't really need to contain any detailed backstory from Gen 4. Just say that it's not as great as it used to be and state an explanation of manageable length; you don't really need to explain the entire story leading up to its ban.

 

[Curtains]

I have been using a bulky chomp swords dance with max attack and max hp .

Garchomp @ lum berry
impish nature
252hp/4 def/ 252 atk
swords dance
outrage
earthquake
fire fang

with sand veil this set can be frustrating because it can take weak ice beams with ease. pair this with a wish max defense jirachi to check stuff like scizor and have max synergy.Really effective sweeper and tank.Has good enough speed to outspeed stuff you body slam haxed with rachi.Fantastic duo.Plus 2 Fire fang 2hkoed most skarm i faced. While outrage 2-1hko's everything in the game.use sand support.

please consider this set

 

[astrohawke]

I would condense the Overview if I were you. It doesn't really need to contain any detailed backstory from Gen 4. Just say that it's not as great as it used to be and state an explanation of manageable length; you don't really need to explain the entire story leading up to its ban.

This. You don't need it's gen IV life story in a gen V analysis.

 

[Calm Pokemaster]

I have been using a bulky chomp swords dance with max attack and max hp .

Garchomp @ lum berry
impish nature
252hp/4 def/ 252 atk
swords dance
outrage
earthquake
fire fang

with sand veil this set can be frustrating because it can take weak ice beams with ease. pair this with a wish max defense jirachi to check stuff like scizor and have max synergy.Really effective sweeper and tank.Has good enough speed to outspeed stuff you body slam haxed with rachi.Fantastic duo.Plus 2 Fire fang 2hkoed most skarm i faced. While outrage 2-1hko's everything in the game.use sand support.

please consider this set

An AC mention will be the most it can get, and anyway, it is completely outclassed by BulkyDD'Nite.

I agree with the other posters, regarding the Overview. Some flavor text is nice, but devoting the major part of the Overview to the history of Garchomp is pretty much unnecessary. The last 2 paragraphs in the Overview are all that is required.

You misspelt Ononokusu in the last point of AC for set 1. The sentence preceding it is grammatically incorrect.

Garchomp’s impressive defensive stats will let it survive even Choice Specs Latios’ Dragon Pulse, taking 70.9% - 83.5%, letting you revenge kill it with your own Dragon attack.

Bold is the correction.

There are a few other grammatical errors, correct them before you open this for GP checks. Otherwise, this is a solid analysis. Good luck.

 

[Ice-eyes]

Stress on Haban SD that Lati@s can and will OHKO with Draco Meteor.

 

[Curtains]

An AC mention will be the most it can get, and anyway, it is completely outclassed by BulkyDD'Nite.

um not at all. For one garchomp has less weaknesses and a electric resist. 2 its pretty much on par with swampert as far as defenses go not to mention the sr resist.3 with sand support along with its bulk it can be very difficult to take out using non super effective moves making it easier to decide the team support. The ev's could use some work but basically it can sweep 2-3 pokemon pretty cleanly unlike bulky dragonite who can't afford to run 252 Atk/252 Hp because of stealth rock and its poor defenses and speed because it would need roost and lose coverage.adamant 252 speed dragonite sits at about 250 speed while 0 spe garchomp sits at 240 iirc. Heal bell dnite sits at about 190 speed and cant outspeed shit after 1 or 2 dd's.

 

[Calm Pokemaster]

Bulky DD Nite has MultiScale, Roost, much higher Special Defense, slightly higher Attack, same base Defense and a valuable Ground resist. It shares the 4* Ice weakness with BulkySD Chomp. Even though it is weak to SR, it can heal off the damage with Roost, activating MultiScale once again. MultiScale+Roost gives Dragonite many, many oppurtunities to set up more than 2 Dragon Dances, and at +3 or +4 Speed you don't need to worry about ''not outspeeding any shit''.

Where was I even talking about Heal Bell? A simple moveset of DD / Roost / Dragon Claw / Fire Punch gives Dragonite great coverage, and the ability to take on Nattorei and Skarmory easily.

With minimal EVs in Speed, Dragonite can even beat max Speed base 130s after 2 Dragon Dances, and as emphasised, Dragonite can get a LOT of oppurtunitites to set up Dragon Dance and sweep, which is not something Garchomp, with only Swords Dance, no recovery and no way to boost its Speed, cannot do that easily.

Dragonite cannot hope to compete with Garchomp in terms of power or Chomp's other sets, but when it comes to a bulky set-up sweeper set, Dragonite clearly outclasses Garchomp, with MultiScale, Roost and immunity to Earthquake.

Still, BulkyChomp deserves an AC mention at best. I hope this helps.

 

[Curtains]

Even with multiscale the omnipresent sandstorm cancels it out. If you get burned or poisoned your done.It still need tremendous illegal ev's to maximise bulk , speed and attack . Your dd nite set has more type weaknesses , no sand veil.Less coverage .less power , slightly higher speed after 1 turn of setup.Less bulk.A worse ability.No Lum berry for status.And so on.You can't call it outclassed by dragonite by refering to a gimmick ability.Therefore its not.

 

[ForteAnly]

Even with multiscale the omnipresent sandstorm cancels it out. If you get burned or poisoned your done.It still need tremendous illegal ev's to maximise bulk , speed and attack . Your dd nite set has more type weaknesses , no sand veil.Less coverage .less power , slightly higher speed after 1 turn of setup.Less bulk.A worse ability.No Lum berry for status.And so on.You can't call it outclassed by dragonite by refering to a gimmick ability.Therefore its not.

Relax Curtains no need to get upset. Sandstorm does not cancel out multi-scale since bulky ddnite almost always run leftovers to compensate for sand storm damage. I don't understand how you can say that multi-scale is gimmicky. I'm not going to say that Multi-scale is some perfect ability when it's not it does have it's problem like any pokemon's ability but sand veil is no better. Without sandstorm no evasion boost. Not every team will run sand storm and there is a possibility of other weather users canceling out sand storm. Dragonite can roost off damage and reactivate multi-scale and while Garchomp loses his evasion boost if the sandstorm is not present in the field. Dragonite and Garchomp have similar move coverage for a bulky set the only difference is fire punch over fire fang and one get's stab on earthquake. Again Dragonite has the advantage of using roost to recover damage which helps him last longer which is the entire purpose of being a bulky sweeper. That's what I think anyways.

 

[Ellington]

I'd just like to say that I think Dragon Tail is a pretty cool alternative to Dragon Claw on the Choice Band set. Since Garchomp usually forces a switch when you first put him on, you'll manage to see what your opponent uses to counter it, deal some good damage thanks to STAB, CB, high attack and entry hazards and rack up entry hazards on another random opponent. If it's not suited to counter Garchomp, you can keep Dragon Tailing until you need to switch out. At that point you know which counter your opponent has for Garchomp and react accordingly once you switch him in next.

Worth a thought.

 

[ElCee]

Just something I noticed while reading.

With Adamant, you can put tremendous pressure on Skarmory, 43.7% - 52.1% damage output allowing you to guarantee the 2HKO should Stealth Rock on the field.

I'm confused how you got that damage calculation. Smogon's damage calc only gives 27.8% - 32.6%, and even SDef Skarm only takes 35.9% - 42.5%. Maybe one of us had something checked incorrectly?

 

[RaikouLover]

I don't think Bulky sweeping chomp should be completely overlooked. In todays Metagame with the prevelance of Choice Scarfs and Lati@, Garchomp really shouldn't even be expected to sweep. Instead, Swords Dance Garchomp should probably be looked at more as a wall-breaker. Therefore, investing in Chomp's bulk so that it takes 2-3 pokemon down is not a bad idea. I personally haven't tested yet (will soon), but:

Garchomp (M) @ Haban Berry / Yache Berry / Leftovers
Trait: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Atk / 160 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw / Outrage
- Fire Fang / Fire Blast

For EVs, 280 Speed lets you check Lucario, 96 Attack with an Adamant nature gives you 352 Attack, making up the slack for not maxing out Attack with Jolly, and 252 HP capitalizes on Garchomp's bulk.

 

[Rakan]

Perhaps slash double chop with dragon claw on the sets for breaking substitutes?

 

[ParaChomp]

Perhaps slash double chop with dragon claw on the sets for breaking substitutes?

It's now called Dual Chop. It's good for breaking Substitutes but the 90 accuracy makes Outrage and Dragon Claw a bit more favourable. It's still usable though.

 

[madgenius2013]

Just a thought: Tyranitar or Hippowdon could be mentioned in Team Options for their Abilities (and Tyranitar's ability to switch with Garchomp at times)