Well, this is interesting. My only issue with the ban is how it'll effect lower tiers, IMO a ban like this should only take effect were sand stream users exist(I.E. ubers and ou). And lol, did I just read a post saying sand veil adds skill to the game. I smell troll. Edit: We should either ban all forms of luck based moves, items, and abilities or keep them all. This isn't something that should have a grey zone, otherwise it would lead to confusion like it is now.