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Pokémon Garchomp

Discussion in 'OverUsed' started by Yeah Galo Sengan, Oct 25, 2013.

  1. Yeah Galo Sengan

    Yeah Galo Sengan

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    [​IMG]
    Base stats: 108/130/95/80/85/102 (BST: 600)

    Ability: Sand Veil: Raises the Pokémon’s evasion during a sandstorm by one level.
    Hidden Ability: Rough Skin: The opponent is hurt by 1/16th of his maximum Hit Points of recoil when using an attack, that requires physical contact, against this Pokémon.
    Mega stats: 108/170/115/120/95/92 (BST: 700)

    Ability: Sand Force: Ground-type, Rock-type & Steel-type moves have their power increased by 33% in a Sandstorm.

    Note: Garchomp's base speed is considered 102 on the turn that it mega evolves. Every turn afterwards, it is considered its new base of 92.

    Didn't see this posted so here I go! Garchomp got a mega evolution in X/Y, pretty much turning it into one of the scariest mixed wallbreakers around, with the mixed attacking stats of Kyurem-B (a Pokémon that shares many parallels with its mega forme). It gains Sand Force as its ability, vastly increasing its power under Sandstorm. Things aren't all perfect, however; it lost 10 speed points, meaning that it will need some support in order to muscle past things it could previously outspeed with its trollish 102 speed tier. It also faces some competition from Zygarde, a new Dragon/Ground legendary which has access to two moves that Chomp desperately covets; Dragon Dance and Extremespeed.

    The advent of the Fairy type also means that a previously UU Pokémon can now give pause to the rampages of our poor landshark; Togekiss, which is immune to both its STABs and can strike back with Dazzling Gleam.

    Let's get down to what I believe will be the most common mega sets in X/Y.

    === THE RETURN OF CHAINCHOMP ===

    Garchomp @Garchompite
    16 Atk/252 Sp. Atk/240 Speed
    Hasty/Naive nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Draco Meteor
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast/Stone Edge/Poison Jab​

    The idea here is quite simple. Lure out a physical wall and break it with nuclear powered Draco Meteors, often masquerading as a physical sweeper by going straight for SD. You can 2HKO pretty much everything with the sheer power afforded by 170 attack and 120 special attack.
    240 speed with a positive nature gets the jump on positive base 90s which is pretty much the best poor Chompy can do :/ Sticky Web support is highly recommended (if you can reliably support with it, a bulkier EV spread should be used).

    === HEY THIS KIND OF LOOKS LIKE KYUUB ===

    Garchomp @Garchompite
    192 HP/152 Atk/164 Speed
    Hasty/Naive nature
    - Substitute
    - Dragon Claw/Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast/Stone Edge/Poison Jab​

    405 HP is the magic 101 subs number; considering that you will usually be forcing a switch when you send Chomp in, setting up a large, bulky sub on that switch can prove very advantageous, allowing you to get a free hit in before being forced to retreat. The speed EVS outspeed neutral base 80s (Dragonite).

    === FAST ROCKS ===

    Garchomp @ Yache/Haban/Roseli Berry/Focus Sash
    252 Atk/252 Speed/4 HP
    Jolly nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Outrage/Dragon Claw
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast/Swords Dance/Stone Edge/Poison Jab
    This variant works well as a supporter for other dragons on your team, weakening their checks and counters and removing sashes with stealth rock + rough skin. Makes a great lead and handles spinners well.
    Good teammates: Mega Garchomp's biggest stumbling block is its lowered speed, so passing it a boost can patch it back up to decent levels. Scolipede looks to be the new premier Speed Boost passer this gen with its boosted attack stat and delicious ability. If you can pass +1 speed and +2 attack to Mega Chomp, you need only fear certain scarfers/ice shard/BLOODY TALONFLAME standing in your way of a sweep.

    Talonflame works well as an emergency supporter with a last ditch (priority) Tailwind that can allow Mega Chomp to set up a quick SD and go to work.

    Another way of rectifying the speed situation is to use the new entry hazard; Sticky Web. As of this post only Surskit, Shuckle, Ariados, Galvantula and Smeargle get this rare prize of a move, which lowers the speed of any pokémon switching into battle while it is in effect. Galvantula and Smeargle seem to be the only truly worthy candidates for supporting competitive teams.

    So let's discuss Garchomp~
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2013
  2. Anartya

    Anartya

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    You should make a note that during the turn that you mega evolve, you use Regular Garchomp's speed stat, not Mega Garchomp's speed stat to figure out who goes first. Every turn after that uses Mega Garchomp's speed stat to calculate who goes first.
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  3. Yeah Galo Sengan

    Yeah Galo Sengan

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    I did not know this, but it makes perfect sense. Thanks and added!

    Considering a bulky set with Stealth Rock, but it seems kind of a waste to use your mega slot on something bulky without lefties; even though 108/115/95 is exceptional bulk, its typing leaves it 4x weak to ice, a very common attacking type, and the new fairy type. Garchomp was built to smash stuff!
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2013
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  4. Cobalt314

    Cobalt314

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    Finally, a Garchomp analysis! I've been waiting for this for days.

    Anyways, would the non mega-evolved Garchomp merit use this generation? It does outspeed Mega Garchomp, but I'm not sure if that extra 8 points in speed makes up for the extra 90 points in base stats. I'm a bit novice to competitive battling, so I may or may not be able to successfully contribute, but I'm only trying to gain knowledge, so the more the better.
  5. Yeah Galo Sengan

    Yeah Galo Sengan

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    Garchomp's base form is still perfectly usable, it retains its raw power and speed from B/W. However, certain new threats limit its old standard sets; Talonflame's priority Brave Birds can put a full stop to its scarfed sweeps if it has taken some prior damage. As stated, Togekiss now totally walls any sets with Dragon/Ground moves such as Sub + Swords Dance.

    It's worth mentioning here that if you Outrage without a choice item and hit a fairy type, you will be able to switch/change moves the next turn without incurring the confusion penalty.
  6. Unknown001

    Unknown001

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    Wouldn't Jolly be better for the Sub Set in stead of Hasty/Naive?

    edit

    nvm, skimmed over Fireblast. woul Fire Fang also be a decent option?
  7. Yeah Galo Sengan

    Yeah Galo Sengan

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    Fire Fang is considerably weaker. Fire Blast is the preferred option on all sets since otherwise Skarmory totally walls you.
  8. Anartya

    Anartya

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    If the sole purpose of Iron Head is fairy coverage, wouldn't Poison Jab be better as it hits Azumarill for 2x, unlike Iron Head. And you have Earthquake for Mawile. Poison Jab + Earthquake hits every fairy for 2x.
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  9. Yeah Galo Sengan

    Yeah Galo Sengan

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    Thanks! Edited.

    You really have to pick your poison (hue) with deciding what walls you this time around. Skarm losing its ghost/dark resists might make it see a bit less use, and with fairies on the rise, Poison Jab might become the preferred slash.
  10. CWW

    CWW

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    Finally! I was waiting for this. Loved ChainChomp back in the day.

    I think a lead set has merit. It's one of the fastest SR users and can hit other leads hard. It might even scare them away, which lets you set up SR with impunity and retain Focus Sash. It'll also scout for possible Togekisses.

    As for good partners, anything that's immune to Thunderwave or doesn't care about paralysis and isn't weak to Flying/Fairy would be welcome, since Togekiss is such a party pooper. I can think of Rotom-W. T-wave immunity, flying resistance, hits hard with Thunderbolt or keep momentum with Volt Switch and can burn in a pinch.
  11. Tribute

    Tribute

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    So on the turn you mega it counts the attack boost but not the speed drop?
  12. Not589

    Not589

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    Garchomp @ Yache Berry
    Trait: Sand Veil
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Dragon Claw
    - Protect

    How about this?
  13. CoolStoryBrobat

    CoolStoryBrobat The hero Smogon needs, but not the one it deserves
    is a Community Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator

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    Looks solid, if you were playing VGCs. I kinda get what it does, Dragon Claw is a "safe" move since Fairies ruin Outrage, Rock Slide for coverage on Togekiss and things that resist/are immune to EQ, and Protect to scout Choice users. The only thing is Rock SLide and Dragon Claw both have very weak BP, and most of the time you won't really be up against a Choiced Attacker when you use Protect. You don't even get an extra turn of recovery since you don't carry the Leftovers, so this could backfire on you by giving your opponent a free turn more often than not. Sand Veil's cool if you manage to keep the Sand up on your side, but I kinda feel this set really would be way more effecitve in Double Battles rather than Singles.
  14. Sazoon

    Sazoon

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    I'm pretty damn sure Lucario is base 90 speed, not 80.
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  15. Reikai

    Reikai

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    I'm not sure why this isn't being discussed more indepth in this thread.

    Garchomp faces a new Enemy this Gen in the form of Fairy Types. However he gets two very good skills that help him vs them. Poison Jab and Iron Head.
    While I'm not sure dropping Stone Edge or Fire Fang/Blast would be good for it, I do think that it should be considered.

    From what I've seen online, the most popular/scary Faeries are Mawile, Azumaril, Togekiss, and sometimes Gardevoir.

    As Iron Head wouldn't help too much vs 2 of the big 3, I am currently running Poison Jab on my Garchomp.

    A nice EQ from Chomp will easily take down things like Mawile and Gardevoir as well.
    Togekiss on the other hand is a rather big issue for Garchomp. His typing just screams "counter chomp" all over. As such, when discussing Garchomp in a thread like this, I think the topic of Togekiss should also be brought up.

    That said, I have been running a CB Chomp for Singles 6-3 rated matches online, and have been doing pretty well with it.

    Garchomp @ Choice Band
    4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly nature
    - Outrage
    - Poison Jab / Fire Fang (Running Poison Jab atm)
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Claw

    The CB attack boost is very useful for the heavy-offense metagame there allowing it to score many OHKOs with Outrage and EQ that it wouldn't normally get.

    Dragon Claw is there for a safer option if the opponent has faeries, but I am considering dropping it for Stone Edge, and playing the prediction game with Poison Jab instead.

    I've found this set pairs very well with something that can eat ice and dragon attacks, specifically a bulky water. My choice in the current X/Y version is a bulky Vaporeon, but Gastrodon, and Bulky Azumaril could possibly work as well.
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2013
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  16. Not589

    Not589

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    Yeah, I plan on playing doubles. Idk if I wanna lead with it, I was thinking about Ttar/Aero. Seems like they would be good. Chomp would come in at a moments notice to get quick kills.
  17. Colroyd

    Colroyd

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    It was confirmed over on the Togekiss thread that it doesn't get Moonblast. Dazzling gleam is the best it can do, not even OHKO'ing in the most offensive Togekiss build it can run! Also, not all Togekiss sets are running Dazzling Gleam, Aura Sphere/Fire Blast/Air Slash/Roost seems popular. You just have to make sure there aren't any Hazards up when you bring in Garchomp, so it's best either running with a defogger like Latias or Spinner: LO Starmie. Otherwise, M-Garchomp will be outsped and 2HKO'd by Togekiss with Sticky Web up, or if it hits in the top range with Dazzling Gleam, it can get OHKO'd after SR.

    80 SpA Life Orb Togekiss Dazzling Gleam vs. 192 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 330-393 (81.48 - 97.03%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    80 SpA Life Orb Togekiss Dazzling Gleam vs. 192 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 330-393 (81.48 - 97.03%) -- 18.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    So, Garchomp isn't entirely countered by Togekiss. The 2nd Garchomp moveset you posted could potentially 2HKO with Poison Jab, with a higher chance of 2HKOing than Stone Miss:

    152 Atk Garchomp Poison Jab vs. 176 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 170-202 (47.88 - 56.9%) -- 85.94% chance to 2HKO
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2013
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  18. Haruno

    Haruno jiggle jiggle
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    Just a quick nick pick but poison jab has the higher chance to 2hko Togekiss thanks to stone miss well missing.
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  19. Colroyd

    Colroyd

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    Ah ofc, thank you very much :) Fixed it.
  20. Alice in Pyroland

    Alice in Pyroland

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    Not only is Garchomp not really 'countered' by Togekiss, it's notable for being one of the 'major' dragons of the last few generations that isn't. Salamence wishes it had something better to hit the egg plane with. Also Mega Garchomp has a 700 BST.

    I'm honestly looking forward to Mega Chomp, it received a lot of flak for being slower than regular, but I honestly feel that extra bulk is going to end up being its saving grace, not mention Sand Force although far weaker than it would have been last gen, is still an excellent ability on a Pokemon with access to both Stone Edge and STAB Earthquake.
  21. Yeah Galo Sengan

    Yeah Galo Sengan

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    I am bad at maths apparently.
  22. ApathyandToast

    ApathyandToast

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    Sticky web or tailwind support will be invaluable for a Megachomp cleanup. Someone was using a team with a Talonflame - wrecks face then suicides with priority tailwind, setting up for a SD Megachomp.
  23. Colroyd

    Colroyd

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    Yep, especially with 252 HP / 252 SpA Assault Vest Ttar being able to switch into any Special Attack more or less in the game, it's not that difficult to get the sandstorm up and then switch into M-Garchomp and go nuts, even 1HKO'ing Togekiss if you decide to not run Poison Jab with SR up or most the time w/o SR:

    152 Atk Garchomp Stone Edge vs. 176 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 342-404 (96.33 - 113.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
    152 Atk Garchomp Stone Edge vs. 176 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 342-404 (96.33 - 113.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Bit of 4MSS going on there, but I still think M-Garchomp hasn't been given enough credit!
  24. Yeah Galo Sengan

    Yeah Galo Sengan

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    Damn, I forgot that thing gets priority Tailwind. Is there anything Talonflame can't do?

    E: If you can get Sticky Web up on your opponent's side of the field, Mega Garchomp doesn't need any speed investment to outpace up to and including base 130s.
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2013
  25. lordkira

    lordkira

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    While it is true mega garchomp does not quite share the same "niche" as the non-mega form,
    the 92 speed really is a significant downfall.
    there are many things that hit just as hard as mega garchomp this gen, but with far superior speed.

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