Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Timid Heatran only hit 278 Speed?
Might I suggest 236 Spe / 108 Atk / 164 SpA to beat it by 1 point?
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Pokémon Garchomp
- Thread starter Yeah Galo Sengan
- Start date
- Status
Might I suggest 236 Spe / 108 Atk / 164 SpA to beat it by 1 point?
Stone RG
Megas are broke
Now im wondering why did i think Heatran had 78 base Speed.
would this be a good set for garchomp:
252 Speed/252 Attack/6 HP
Nature: Jolly
abillity : rough skin
Move set:
Earthquake
Crunch
Poison Jab
Outrage/Dragon Rush/Fire fang
held item: sitrus berry
252 Speed/252 Attack/6 HP
Nature: Jolly
abillity : rough skin
Move set:
Earthquake
Crunch
Poison Jab
Outrage/Dragon Rush/Fire fang
held item: sitrus berry
Not really but it can be improved immediately. Drop crunch and poison jab for dragon claw and swords dance. Drop outrage for either fire fang or stone edge. Use a yache berry or a lum berry over sitrus berry.
Or instead of swords dance, go with stone edge and fire fang and run a choice band
Outrage is an option over dragon claw but it should be a secondary option
Garchomp @ Life Orb
Ability: Rough Skin
Jolly 252 atk/ 252 spd
Hone Claws
Stone Edge
Earthquake
Dragon Rush
This set is pretty neat and has worked to some great effect. It is able to 2hko gliscor's that do not heavily invest in defense and it doesn't lock you into a move. Fairies have basically made Outrage too risky to run unless said fairies are taken out or if your opponent lacks them all together. I'm not sure if SD Dragon Claw does more than Hone Claws Dragon Rush, but Dragon Rush has that nice flinch rate which I have been able to take advantage of on several occasions. Also, a 100% accurate +1 LO stone edge is so nice to spam. +1 EQ is also nice I have found, still being able to OHKO many things.
Ability: Rough Skin
Jolly 252 atk/ 252 spd
Hone Claws
Stone Edge
Earthquake
Dragon Rush
This set is pretty neat and has worked to some great effect. It is able to 2hko gliscor's that do not heavily invest in defense and it doesn't lock you into a move. Fairies have basically made Outrage too risky to run unless said fairies are taken out or if your opponent lacks them all together. I'm not sure if SD Dragon Claw does more than Hone Claws Dragon Rush, but Dragon Rush has that nice flinch rate which I have been able to take advantage of on several occasions. Also, a 100% accurate +1 LO stone edge is so nice to spam. +1 EQ is also nice I have found, still being able to OHKO many things.
Hone Claws is completely outclassed by Swords Dance, the only niche is has is boosting Stone Edge's accuracy which is nowhere near enough to compensate for losing the extra +1 boost from Swords Dance.
Does a +2 dragon claw do more than +1 Dragon rush? And the extra accuracy boost more than compensates for the fact that you could miss a +2 and end up costing you your chomp when hone claws boost could have made the difference.
Swords dance outclasses it. Dragon claw does more damage at +2 than dragon rush does at +1. It is pretty simple math. Also, earthquake is stronger with a swords dance and so is fire fang. It's nice to have a 100% accurate stone edge, but a swords dance is better in every way.
Well i dont know the calcs so its not simple math, was just wondering. +1 EQ still OHKO's/ 2HKO's what it needs to with LO, and the set doesn't have/need fire fang. I personally think +2 is overkill, As long as the poke does not resist chomps hit he still OHKO's them with +1 LO and is guaranteed not to miss, unless of course you can name some pokes where the +2 would make the difference.
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 419-493 (90.3 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 313-370 (67.4 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 769-906 (107.7 - 126.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 577-680 (80.8 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
etc etc, those were just the first two I checked and I can't be bothered to find anymore just to prove an obvious point. SD Garchomp is guaranteed not to miss as well (except the 5% chance with Fire Fang which is hardly worth considering) so that's not much of an argument.
Do some calcs with pokes that are immune to EQ and Im sure there would be an argument. And by make a difference I meant where the opposing pokemon could retaliate and OHKO back. Blissey isnt doing anything except dying next turn, and I wouldnt keep Chomp in on Vaporeon anyways unless it had prior damage + 37.5% is not enough for me to run SD over HC since SD has a 62.5% chance to still 2hko.
The Garchomp I prefer,
Garchomp @Choice Scarf
Ability: Rough Skin
Jolly, 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Outrage
Earthquake
Stone Edge/Rock Slide
Dragon Claw/Duel Chop
I like to have a secondary Dragon Type Attack that does direct damage in case I have the option to knock out a Pokemon without being locked into a rampage.
Rock Slide is for users who prefer to have Accuracy over Power and Duel Chop helps against Substitute.
Garchomp @Choice Scarf
Ability: Rough Skin
Jolly, 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Outrage
Earthquake
Stone Edge/Rock Slide
Dragon Claw/Duel Chop
I like to have a secondary Dragon Type Attack that does direct damage in case I have the option to knock out a Pokemon without being locked into a rampage.
Rock Slide is for users who prefer to have Accuracy over Power and Duel Chop helps against Substitute.
I think that iron head is better coverage than poison jab because iron head also hits ice for 2x. the set I'm trying out is:
Garchomp @garchompite
ability: sand force
Jolly, 4 Def/252 spe/252 atk
outrage/dragon rush/dragon claw
earthquake
iron head
swords dance/sandstorm
I haven't attempted a sandstorm set as I don't have a team to compliment it yet on x/y but swords dance iron head was messing things up in battle spot singles and battle mansion (not an impressive feat for the latter let's move on.)also, running dragon rush or dragon claw is an option if you don't want an opponent switching in a fairy-type mid-outrage. A yache berry and garchompite would be nice but you can't win them all I guess.
Garchomp @garchompite
ability: sand force
Jolly, 4 Def/252 spe/252 atk
outrage/dragon rush/dragon claw
earthquake
iron head
swords dance/sandstorm
I haven't attempted a sandstorm set as I don't have a team to compliment it yet on x/y but swords dance iron head was messing things up in battle spot singles and battle mansion (not an impressive feat for the latter let's move on.)also, running dragon rush or dragon claw is an option if you don't want an opponent switching in a fairy-type mid-outrage. A yache berry and garchompite would be nice but you can't win them all I guess.
I've also been thinking about selecting a nature for a ChainChomp set. Naive/Hasty allows for greater speed, but seeing that MegaChomp's base speed has been reduced to 92, wouldn't it be better to have a Naughty or even a Mild nature (if you want more Special Power)? Right now I'm planning on going Naive (since the metagame has mostly gone physical), but I'm also considering letting go of the speed points for more wallbreaking power.
I've been playing around with Chomp sets, and I've found this one quite useful, It seems like a waste to not use that 120 special attack.
Garchomp @ Garchompite
Ability: Rough Skin
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Atk / 12 SpA
Naughty Nature
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
I almost always get +2 speed and attack boosts passed by a scolipede, which outspeeds pretty much everything. So far, the moves seem to have perfect neutral coverage. Fire blast can get through physical walls while Chomp is unboosted. The EV spread is enough to just guarantee a KO with fire blast onto a Skarmory on the switch, after I use either unboosted Dragon claw or stone Edge. Here are a few calcs I ran up:
However, it *can* do this:
Garchomp @ Garchompite
Ability: Rough Skin
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Atk / 12 SpA
Naughty Nature
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
I almost always get +2 speed and attack boosts passed by a scolipede, which outspeeds pretty much everything. So far, the moves seem to have perfect neutral coverage. Fire blast can get through physical walls while Chomp is unboosted. The EV spread is enough to just guarantee a KO with fire blast onto a Skarmory on the switch, after I use either unboosted Dragon claw or stone Edge. Here are a few calcs I ran up:
Garchomp still can't get through Gliscor unboosted, though. .-.
However, it *can* do this:
Tbh I think the best Garchomp set at the moment is Sub, Swords Dance, Earthquak, Dragon Claw. Rotom-W come in thinking to burn you, allowing you to set up Sub and SD and an easy sweep. This is especially potent with Sand Veil in Sandstorm.
dialganet
Banned deucer.
Megachomp, if used properly as I've tested, is freaking amazing. It can take out 2-3 mons in one hit while taking a couple of severe hits (like CB Scizor U turn). I've been using a Jolly 6 hp 252 atk 252 speed spread that relies on Fire Blast, Outrage, Earthquake and Stone miss and hell, this is a real nuke even if the nature is subpar (I need to rebreed this monster I know). What people tends to forget is that unlike the "accelerating mega" (Pinsir, Sagespoon, Luke) that have to endure their base speed on the first turn and are hindered by this feat, Garchomp can actually do the opposite, and act as a revenge Killer of 101 and below speed tier belongers. Hell, you can keep him unevolved until you need the nuke and all the faster mons are worn down or knocked out. I usually pair him with TTar and Venusaur. TTar obviously tanks special hits directed at chomp and triggers passive damage and, in case you're megaevolving, Sand Force. Venusaur is used as lure to put to sleep one opposite mon because, when my opponents see him in Team Preview, in 99% of cases they think he's my mega. This becomes even crazier if your opponent has a Tyranitar too, which is pretty common. TTar passive presence basically triggers Megachomp, giving him more sand-force-nuking-time chances.
As strong as he is, I actually have to say that use him at the best of his capabilities is no easy feat. The key is to megaevolve on something that isn't switching out and can maybe take a hit from regular Chomp (ferro, scizor, baloon exca), or against something that belongs in the midst of the 92-102 speed tier. If you manage to do that, something is automatically dead now, and will be later in the match. Hell, in that turn, you have a trollish speed Megachomp with KyuB offenses that has perfect coverage in four moves and waaaay better typing who can rely heavily on a coverage move to nuke a predicted switch in. Example: you're in against bulky Arcanine, and they have Togekiss. Megaevolving, you avoid prediction and you can Stone Edge either way to nuke (ops knock) something out. If Sand is on, this becomes even more absurd as Chomp has basically a Life Orb boost on QuakeEdge coming off 170 Attack and can Fire blast Ferro, Scizor and Forretress to hell. Fairies are not safe, as QuakeEdge cover all of them. Azumarill can't even check and Togekiss doesn't stand a chance, so feel free to run Outrage for everything else.
As I've said, he's no easy feat to use (he needs prediction and be used at exactly the right time) but you've basically to create one and only opportunity to basically cripple the opposing team walls and tanks apart. I have to study an optimal EVs spread to capitalize on his offensive stats (as naive 200 atk 252 speed 58 spatk) but man, I've used him to great success and, aside megaluke who is an absolute freak, there's no mega in sight that can make me rething of my mega of choice as of now (bar Megasaur, but they're on two different kind of teams).
As strong as he is, I actually have to say that use him at the best of his capabilities is no easy feat. The key is to megaevolve on something that isn't switching out and can maybe take a hit from regular Chomp (ferro, scizor, baloon exca), or against something that belongs in the midst of the 92-102 speed tier. If you manage to do that, something is automatically dead now, and will be later in the match. Hell, in that turn, you have a trollish speed Megachomp with KyuB offenses that has perfect coverage in four moves and waaaay better typing who can rely heavily on a coverage move to nuke a predicted switch in. Example: you're in against bulky Arcanine, and they have Togekiss. Megaevolving, you avoid prediction and you can Stone Edge either way to nuke (ops knock) something out. If Sand is on, this becomes even more absurd as Chomp has basically a Life Orb boost on QuakeEdge coming off 170 Attack and can Fire blast Ferro, Scizor and Forretress to hell. Fairies are not safe, as QuakeEdge cover all of them. Azumarill can't even check and Togekiss doesn't stand a chance, so feel free to run Outrage for everything else.
As I've said, he's no easy feat to use (he needs prediction and be used at exactly the right time) but you've basically to create one and only opportunity to basically cripple the opposing team walls and tanks apart. I have to study an optimal EVs spread to capitalize on his offensive stats (as naive 200 atk 252 speed 58 spatk) but man, I've used him to great success and, aside megaluke who is an absolute freak, there's no mega in sight that can make me rething of my mega of choice as of now (bar Megasaur, but they're on two different kind of teams).
I've been using a scarfed Garchomp in 3v3 cart battles to great effect.
Garchomp@Choice Scarf
Rough Skin
Adamant
12 HP, 252 Atk, 20 Def, 100 SpD, 124 Spe
Outrage
Earthquake
Stone Edge
Fire Blast
The EVs require some explanation. I wanted to max out my attack under Choice Scarf, thus 252 Atk and Adamant. Next, I wanted to out-speed all non-scarfed opponents, including max-invested positive-natured megas (ignoring Alakazam, whom I rarely see and is ridiculously fast, meaning I just need to beat base 135), thus 124 Spe. Finally, I wanted my special bulk to be on par with my physical, which 20 Def and 100 SpD provides. I couldn't increase both equally after that (at level 50 every stat increase beyond the first costs 8), so I dumped the rest in HP.
I get a lot of unexpected OHKOs on opponents usually faster than Garchomp. EQ is the most oft-used move, but if I think the coast is clear of fairies, Outrage can sweep teams.
I tried Poison Jab instead of Fire Blast as surprise fairy coverage, but the first one I tried it on failed to OHKO, and they OHKO'd me back instead, so I nixed that idea.
Azumarril often gets teamed up with my Garchomp, as he can usually either kill or Belly Drum in front of Garchomp counters.
Garchomp@Choice Scarf
Rough Skin
Adamant
12 HP, 252 Atk, 20 Def, 100 SpD, 124 Spe
Outrage
Earthquake
Stone Edge
Fire Blast
The EVs require some explanation. I wanted to max out my attack under Choice Scarf, thus 252 Atk and Adamant. Next, I wanted to out-speed all non-scarfed opponents, including max-invested positive-natured megas (ignoring Alakazam, whom I rarely see and is ridiculously fast, meaning I just need to beat base 135), thus 124 Spe. Finally, I wanted my special bulk to be on par with my physical, which 20 Def and 100 SpD provides. I couldn't increase both equally after that (at level 50 every stat increase beyond the first costs 8), so I dumped the rest in HP.
I get a lot of unexpected OHKOs on opponents usually faster than Garchomp. EQ is the most oft-used move, but if I think the coast is clear of fairies, Outrage can sweep teams.
I tried Poison Jab instead of Fire Blast as surprise fairy coverage, but the first one I tried it on failed to OHKO, and they OHKO'd me back instead, so I nixed that idea.
Azumarril often gets teamed up with my Garchomp, as he can usually either kill or Belly Drum in front of Garchomp counters.
Garchomp is great on 3v3.
He's, imho, a top 3 threat on 3v3 singles (and possible overall with all metas).
He's just so damn good.
I prefer to run sash overall but scarf is damn good as well.
The one I'm running at the moment:
Garchomp @ Assault Vest / Choice Band (depends on the team)
Rough Skin
Jolly
252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP
Dragon Claw
Earthquake
Poison Jab
Iron Head
As a STAB-move, Dragon Claw is much more viable than Outrage for two reasons: a) Outrage goes on for 2-3 rounds, which allows the opponent to switch in a fairy, b) one does not simply walk into self-confusion!
Why Poison Jab AND Iron Head? Wouldn't Stone Edge be better? In my personal opinion: no! Not only that it should be renamed Stone Miss, but there are many fairies around in OU which at least resist one of the two attacks. And Iron Head's accuracy of 100% makes this move a great ice counter.
My favorite item on Garchomp is Assault Vest, if I need a cleaner I use Choice Band. I don't like being "locked" into the wrong move though.
Garchomp @ Assault Vest / Choice Band (depends on the team)
Rough Skin
Jolly
252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP
Dragon Claw
Earthquake
Poison Jab
Iron Head
As a STAB-move, Dragon Claw is much more viable than Outrage for two reasons: a) Outrage goes on for 2-3 rounds, which allows the opponent to switch in a fairy, b) one does not simply walk into self-confusion!
Why Poison Jab AND Iron Head? Wouldn't Stone Edge be better? In my personal opinion: no! Not only that it should be renamed Stone Miss, but there are many fairies around in OU which at least resist one of the two attacks. And Iron Head's accuracy of 100% makes this move a great ice counter.
My favorite item on Garchomp is Assault Vest, if I need a cleaner I use Choice Band. I don't like being "locked" into the wrong move though.
252 Atk Choice Band Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sylveon: 231-273 (58.6 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 295-348 (73 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Garchomp Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 348-411 (125.1 - 147.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Theyre all koed with earthquake, except togekiss who is only 2hkoed by stone edge. You do realize a stab earthquake has only 10 less points than a super effective poison jab/iron head right?
Which means you suggest to use the CB instead? This turns out to be tricky lategame, if Garchomp is your last mon on the field.
Ash Borer mentioned a similar set in the Guide to Lures in OU thread with a Lum Berry and Outrage over Dragon Claw. This thing just shits all over Rotom-W. Block the Volt Switch, SD on the WoW, Sub for the next WoW, and let the wreckage ensue.
I want to try running a defensive garchomp and your post looks effective, especially judging all the likes it got.
I'm used to a defensive mon running full HP and defensive ev's could you just humor me and explain why defensechomp runs a lot of speed ev's?
- Status