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Gardevoir (BW2 Revamp) (QC 2/3)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Spirit, Aug 1, 2013.

  1. Spirit

    Spirit
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    [Overview]
    • outclassed in a lot of the things it tries to do
    • pursuit weak and lack of physical defense is rough
    • not many notable resistances doesn't help it out either
    • however, it does have one the best abilities out there: trace
    • very good movepool plentiful with offensive and defensive options
    • great special attack and special defense allows to take on a few roles
    • its typing, however, does allow it to counter specs slowking and check moltres
    • a niche pokemon, but it has notable strengths and does well if you harness them
    [SET]
    name: Utility
    move 1: Will-O-Wisp
    move 2: Psychic
    move 3: Protect
    move 4: Wish
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Trace
    nature: Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • best use on full stall / semi-stall, as it lacks the ability to maintain momentum to function on any sort of offense team
    • Trace is just a phenomenal ability, as it allows it to come in on manectric and lanturn and absorb their Electric-type stabs, it's also excellent for taking advantage of intimidate from qwilfish and regenerator from slowking, amoongus, and alomomola
    • Will-O-Wisp is needed to patch up Gardevoir's horrid physical defense and does well in crippling many incoming physical attackers such as absol and durant
    • Psychic is needed so that Gardevoir isn't complete taunt bait even uninvested, it still does a good chunk against the like of qwilfish, tangrowth, and alomomola
    • Protect + Wish can be just as useful, allowing Gardevoir to effectively counter choice specs slowking and check other offensive psychic-types such as uxie and mesprit

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Toxic and Thunder Wave are good options to consider. Toxic works quite well with Protect + Wish, this allows gardevoir to outstall Psychic-types such as Uxie and Mesprit. Thunder Wave on the other hand can work even with will-o-wisp to cripple a fast sweeper and then an incoming physcial attackers, this helps slower and frail offensive Pokemon, such as Crawdaunt to sweep much easier
    • works quite well with steelix, as it can take on the likes of durant while gardevoir can stomach fighting-type moves and burn opponents with WoW and provide steelix with wish support
    • can sponge physical attacks from Emboar and Arceops and provide wish support if gardevoir lacks the move itself
    • Poliwrath is also an excellent partner by being able to effectively counter durant and escavalier while gardevoir can take on manectric and rotom-c and provide heal bell support if needed
    • Qwilfish can work for similar reasons as Poliwrath, Qwilfish, however, can absorb and lay toxic spikes and set up spikes
    • Regirock can also work by providing entry hazard support, take physical fire-type moves, and even serve as a good check/counter to the likes of accelgor and galvantula
    • Ferroseed provides entry hazard support as well as being able to counter most versions of spiritomb, in return, gardevoir can provide either wish support or heal bell support and tank fighting-type moves
    • defensive escavalier also makes a great partner by being able to counter spiritomb and deal with other troublesome ghost-types and psychic-types, gardevoir returns the favor with heal bell or wish support
    [SET]
    name: Special Attacker
    move 1: Psychic
    move 2: Focus Blast
    move 3: Thunderbolt
    move 4: Destiny Bond / Healing Wish
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Trace
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • this set's appeal lies in its unique blend of offensive support, allowing gardevoir to take full advantage of her powerful offensive presence and unique support movepool
    • differentiates itself from mesprit and other offensive psychic-types with a significantly higher special attack, trace, slightly better movepool, and destiny bond
    • psychic destroys common physical walls such as tangrowth and poliwrath and in general, is gardevoir's most powerful stab move
    • Focus Blast is primarily for steel-types such as aggron and magneton, while inaccurate, the power allows it to OHKO both of those two threats on the switch
    • Thunderbolt provides gardevoir with perfect coverage along its other two moves; thunderbolt is mainly for slowking, which is swiftly 2hko'd on the switch
    • destiny bond is used as a last resort to take down troublesome threats that gardevoir can't ko (i.e. escavalier)
    • Healing wish on the other hand allows Gardevoir to aid a crippled physical sweeper once she's too weak to be of much use
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • gardevoir can use an offensive or substitute + calm mind set to further bolster its already impressive special attack; however, such a decision would require gardevoir to sacrifice either a coverage move or substitute, this makes it either easier to pick off or easier to wall
    • hidden power fire can be used in place of focus blast work to destroy escavalier, it also hits all steel-types bar aggron for super effective damage and posses good accuracy, but is generally much weaker. make sure to change the ivs to use 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe if you opt for this move, however
    • psyshock over psychic to break past special walls like clefable and cryogonal more easily, as having to rely on focus blast to deal with them won't always work out as planned
    • generally doesn't need much support, stealth rock is all that's "recommended" because it allows gardevoir to get a clean 2hko on slowking with thunderbolt and ohko moltres and typhlosion with psychic
    • smeargle in particular can set up stealth rock and many other entry hazards, it can also put something to sleep with spore, this in turn allows gardevoir to get in fairly safely and set up a substitute
    • teammates that can deal with spiritomb, escavalier, and absol will generally suffice. fighting-types such as hariyama and hitmonlee can destroy absol while Fire-types such as entei can roast spiritomb
    • Emboar works great as well given its excellent synergy with gardevoir. gardevoir can take out alomomola and poliwrath while emboar can deal with absol and durant
    • Gardevoir can also benefit these teammates by disposing of physical walls such as qwilfish, poliwrath, and tangrowth, this gives it good offensive synergy with the above pokemon

    [Other Options]
    • Taunt prevents slower entry hazard users, such as steelix and ferroseed from setting up on you, together with will-o-wisp, Gardevoir can function as an effective stall breaker
    • If Gardevoir is not using Protect + Wish, it can take advantage of its low HP stat with the use of pain split
    • memento can work with dual screens by providing a set up sweeper with plenty of opportunities to wreak havoc, despite gardevoir's access to taunt, this job is generally done better by uxie who boasts superior bulk, speed, and the all-important stealth rock
    • encore / disable and shadow ball / signal beam are all other cute options, though gardevoir generally doesn't have the room to make use of shadow ball / signal beam or the resistances to abuse encore and disable
    • with trace and a choice scarf, gardevoir can effectively revenge kill swift swim and chlorophyll users, though this option is too specific to warrant its own set
    • Choice Specs
    [Checks and Counters]
    • Spiritomb is enemy number one, as it can pursuit trap gardevoir or destroy it with its priority moves, though offensive versions of spiritomb will be 2hko'd with thunderbolt after stealth rock or crippled with will-o-wisp on the switch
    • Escavalier can also pursuit trap gardevoir, though it needs to invest heavily in special defense in order to take it on, it also won't enjoy a burn either
    • Mandibuzz / Drapion can beat gardevoir pretty easily should it lack thunderbolt for mandibuzz and focus blast / will-o-wisp for drapion, unfortunately, drapion is hard to fit on most good teams
    • due to gardevoir's insane damage output and ability to cripple physical attackers and have enough bulk to take on special attackers, there are very few pokemon that can reliably switch into it, the best way to beat it is with heavy offensive pressure and fast physical attackers
    • archeops, scolipede, galvantula, and durant are all pokemon that come to mind that can do this well, while none of them can directly switch in, they can all ohko gardevoir with ease
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2014
  2. EonX

    EonX The One and Only
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    Guess, I'll chime in first with suggestions and things.

    Utility:

    • I would personally think Wish+Protect is best for Gardevoir. It lets Garde deal with Psychic-types much better and handle repeated assaults much more easily.
    • On Regirock, mention Gardevoir's ability to compensate for Regi's lack of reliable recovery and/or cleric support (useful if Regirock uses Rest for recovery)

    Sub+3 Attacks:

    • Um, Gardevoir's Speed tier is very important. Getting in front of neutral base 80s is one of the biggest things for "fast" and/or "frail" offensive Pokemon to accomplish. Timid should get the nod over modest imo so you don't get wrecked by stuff like Kabutops or Gallade before you can do anything to them.
    • Mention Emboar. It deals with Absol, Escavalier, AND Spiritomb quite effectively. Band Emboar can set the stage for Gardevoir to sweep and Scarf Emboar can finish off a team Gardevoir has broken down.
    • Maybe AC mention Shadow Ball. Deals with the pixies and Gallade while retaining coverage on Slowking.

    Other Options:

    • Mention the Specs set. I don't think it deserves its own set with Mesprit and Slowking around, but it hits the hardest of any Psychic-type in the tier (bar Analytic Beheeyem)
    • Mention Mesprit as competition with Healing Wish.

    Checks and Counters:

    • Gallade packing Night Slash since it has the special bulk to take anything but Shadow Ball. Often uses a Lum Berry to deal with burns as well.
    • Accelgor, Galvantula, and Scolipede are all faster Bug-types. Scoli hits Gardevoir on its weaker defense stat too.

    Just my two cents on it. Looks good imo.
  3. Spirit

    Spirit
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    The main reason why it isn't a primary slash is because gallade does it better. Taunt + Heal Bell lets it distinguish itself from it. Where as Protect + Wish can be used to beat more specialized threats.

    I disagree completely. Those two Pokemon almost always run positive attacking natures. Not only that, but even if Gardevoir could speed tie with them, they wouldn't switch in and gardevoir wouldn't risk being outsped and OHKO'd to begin with. It's a team dependent choice more often than not.

    Some of your other suggestions are okay though, so I'll mention those.
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2013
  4. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest DreamDream
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    I'm not a QC member, but I'll weigh in here since I have some experience with Gardy.

    [Overview]
    • Emphasize that you should consider Jynx, Mesprit, or Sigilyph before using Gardy
    • Mention it has rare tools such as Will-O-Wisp that others don't have
    • Also emphasize that you need to be sure Gardy is what you're looking for when using it
    • Other than that, this is good
    [Utility Set]
    • Yeah mention Trace; also mention Gardevoir's nice special bulk also allows it to take special hits well in general
    • Also mention WoW can be used to cripple Fighting-types like Hitmonchan since Gardevoir resists their moves
    • I guess you can also say Psychic still hits pretty hard even without investment; Gardy has a really high SpA so it should be able to deal some good damage anyways
    • Emphasize why you would want to use this over Gallade, who has less weaknesses and Drain Punch
    [Utility AC]
    • Mention that while Toxic and T-Wave are great, they're often redundant with WoW
    • I'd also give Steelix a mention here as a teammate; Gardy can Heal Bell and to an extent pass Wishes to Steelix to keep it healthy, while Steelix handles Escavalier and Spiritomb which often handle Gardy quite easily, while Gardy can resist Psychic-type moves and take special hits for Steelix. Gardy's burns also aid Steelix in its ability to wall physical attackers
    [Sub3Attacks Set]
    • Move the first bullet point to AC because that's where we explain natures and item
    • Oh and also move the second one to AC as well
    • Emphasize why you'd want to use this; it can hit very hard while dodging status and force mindgames with Absol and Spiritomb (and Druddigon to an extent)
    [Sub3Attacks AC]
    • I might say that SubCM should be moved to OO, that set on its own is vastly outclassed by Mesprit and Uxie because of their greater bulk (and Levitate), mention this
    • mention Shadow Ball because it provides Gardevoir a strong weapon against Mesprit and Uxie while still maiming Slowking, but mention Thunderbolt is just too useful
    • Mention Emboar as a teammate; it's phenomenal at handling Gardevoir's counters
    [OO]
    • Mention this thing's movepool is huge (not as huge as mew or absol, but still)
    • As EonX said, definitely mention Specs; Gardevoir hits hard as fuck even though it's outclassed by Slowking and Mesprit
    • Mention LO+4 Attacks
    • Mention TR but Slowking and Mesprit are better (and so is Dusknoir to an extent, lol)
    [C&C]
    • I'd mention Galvantula and Scolipede in there as well; they both smash Gardy even if they can't switch in; at the very least, say that most fast Bugs can beat Gardy
    • Mention that its physical defense is incredibly easy to exploit
    That's all I got
  5. Oglemi

    Oglemi The Legend of Oglemi: The Wiener Waker
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    add all that ^

    you don't need to list the 0 Atk IVs, that's implied for all special attackers not using Hidden Power

    make sure to express that the specially defensive Gard should only really be used on stallish-balance and full stall teams, it loses too much momentum otherwise

    The nature on the Sub attacker really should be Timid, Gard already hits like a truck especially with LO and Gard should doing all it can to be able to donk Kabutops tbh

    If you're using Psyshock on the Sub attacker you probably don't need Focus Blast, so that slot can effectively be filled by nearly anything in Gard's gigantic movepool; WoW, Pain Split, Taunt, Shadow Ball, HP Ice are a few things that come to mind

    In C&C be sure to mention that part of what makes Gard so hard to "counter" is Taunt + its naturally high Speed, which disables Clefable, Cryo, Uxie, and other stallish mons from just outstalling it

    QC Approved 1/3
  6. Spirit

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    Um, half the stuff he suggested was either redundant, unneeded, or inaccurate.

    This I don't believe is correct because Gardevoir functions differently than all three. For one, it's more powerful and specially bulky than Mesprit. Two, Jynx is more of a hail mon and functions as a glass cannon, and Sigilyph is used more as an all-out attacker or boosting sweeper. This line implies that these Pokemon can all perform better than Gardevoir at all of its roles, which is the wrong way to put it. It's a niche Pokemon that has a specific subset of uses.

    Some other things he mentioned were like, "yeah I agree".

    These kind of things are unneeded.

    Fighting-types aren't switching in on Gardevoir to begin with. Dark- and bulky Normal-types are. Hence why they're specifically mentioned. I'd also rather KO those Fighting-types on the switch with Psychic rather than risk missing with a pointless Will-O-Wisp.

    This tells the reader absolutely nothing and is just fluff in general. It just adds more work where it's not needed.

    I don't get the point in adding something that's completely outclassed. Gardevoir has no noteworthy quality that makes a TR set worth using. The other moves in OO have at least some merit.

    Normally when I get something like this I would just say "I'll add some of your changes" and then be done with it. But since you told me to add this, I felt the need to specify why a lot of this was just incorrect or unnecessary. Everything else that I didn't talk about I think is good and I'll add it later.
  7. Oglemi

    Oglemi The Legend of Oglemi: The Wiener Waker
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    You don't have to agree with everything he said, if you feel some of it was redundant or unnecessary then ok; I'm glad you're able to distinguish those. Thanks for pointing those out, it'll help him get better at QCing
  8. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent ium and me <3
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    I think that Gardevoir needs a LO three attacks set, with the last move either Memento (to set up a sweeper), Healing Wish (to obviously bring back a sweeper) or Destiny Bond (to take out troublesome Pokemon it lures out that a teammate can then benefit from, such as Escavalier or Absol). Gardevoir hits stupid hard, distinguishes itself here from Jynx with her higher power, bulk and ability, as well as the last support move (it really is an excellent set). The utility set also faces pretty stiff competition from Gallade imo, as it's not weak to Bug or Dark. Gotta emphasize Gardys advantages over Gallade here in lack of a Flying weakness (although it still doesn't fair well against physically attacking ones such as Swellow or ones like Moltres that are immune to WoW :/) Gallade also resists SR and has better recovery overall with Drain Punch and the fact that it can run WishProtect perhaps a tad more efficiently.
  9. Spirit

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    I was thinking that I could just merge that with the Sub + 3 Attacks set and name it "Special Attacker". The sets play differently when it comes to the final moveslot; sure, but I think it would just be easier to combine them altogether. They're not different outside of the final move anyway, lol.

    As for the utility set, the main niche is countering specs slowking (which as far as I'm aware, nothing can really do that) and checking psychic-types and moltres to an extent. Then there's trace which allows it to counter stuff like Manectric and take advantage of Regenerator from Amoongus and friends. There's also Taunt + Heal Bell which is another neat differentiation. I thought that was made clear already. ;-;
  10. Hot N Cold

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    I think that Substitute is a waste on Gardevoir (Molk think the same), the set should be all out attacker with Life Orb and Destiny Bond or maybe Healing Wish mentioned it. Just hits harder thanks to a good SpA and Life Orb and luring stuff like Spiritomb, Escavalier which otherwise Gardevoir should lose against them.

    On the Utility Gardevoir I think that WoW and Wish are kinda mandatory on this set, no point to use Pain Split when you have Wish which is a reliable move and helps your temmates too, very important on stall / balance.

    move 1: Will-O-Wisp
    move 2: Psychic
    move 3: Protect
    move 4: Wish

    Anyways Taunt / Heal Bell are viable options but no slot for them since the rest are necessary so post them like another options for Gardevoir.
  11. ScraftyIsTheBest

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    Okay, I'll give this a look (again)

    [Utility]
    • Move the mention of Heal Bell to AC
    • Move Pain Split and Taunt to OO
    [Utility AC]
    • Remove the mentions of Mola being able to provide Wish support since Gardy has it in the main set, and Gardy being able to provide Heal bell support because Heal Bell is not on the main set
    • Steelix is a good teammate because it has good defensive synergy with Gardevoir, taking the moves Gardy is weak to while Gardy can return the favor with resisting Fighting and taking special hits well. WoW helps Steelix as a physical wall too
    [Special Attacker]
    • First two points belong in AC; also talk about Timid>Modest there and remove the mention of Lefties
    • Talk more about why this set is worth using (Hint: read what Cherub and HnC said)
    • Remove mention of Sub, and talk about D-Bond's uses (it can take down Spiritomb and Escavalier while they go for the kill)
    [Special Attacker AC]
    • The SubCM mention should go to OO; Mesprit and Uxie are a lot better at that imo
    • Healing Wish / Memento should probably go here as well as alternatives to D-Bond since they're pretty useful moves, especially if using something like CB Druddigon or SD Absol, respectively. That might be just me
    • Emboar is a good teammate and should be mentioned
    [OO]
    • Remove D-Bond from here since it's in one of the sets
    • Specs is decent since Gardy hits stupidly hard and has great coverage so it might be worth mentioning here; I'm not so sure though
    [C&C]
    • Remove mention of Mandibuzz being hard to fit on most good teams since it's good on stall now that hail is gone, Drapion is still pretty hard to hit onto a team though
    • Remove the mention of Cinccino breaking Subs since Sub isn't on the sets anymore
    • Mention fast Bugs such as Galvantula and Scolipede do well against it
    Do that and I'll approve
  12. Spirit

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    lol finally got to this after a million years. I think I got all your changes ScraftyIsTheBest

    I thought healing wish was good enough for a slash b/c it is a pretty game-changing move and works superbly with gardevoir from my experience; I'll deslash if requested though.

    Also, thoughts on making the offensive set the first one? I feel it represents gardevoir's niche a little better.
  13. EonX

    EonX The One and Only
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    This isn't forgotten! Joking aside, a couple of things on this:

    • Remove Destiny Bond from OO as it's the primary slash on the Special Attacker set. Think you just overlooked it in Scrafty's last post, so no big deal.
    • I would personally keep the Special Attacker set as the 2nd set. The problem with it is the fact that it faces lots of competition from other special attacking Psychic-types that are either faster (Kadabra, Jynx, Sigilyph) or have better bulk (Mesprit, Slowking) whereas the Specially Defensive set really only has to compete with Gallade as a specially defensive Psychic-type (Slowking is generally a mixed tank)
    So, keep set order the same and remove Destiny Bond from OO and consider this:

    QC Approved 2/3
  14. Oglemi

    Oglemi The Legend of Oglemi: The Wiener Waker
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    Icecream just checking in, doing it for all the analyses :>

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