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Gardevoir Discussion

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by ebeast, Apr 5, 2012.

  1. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Gardevoir

    Big thanks to Molk and everyone who has commented for helping me with the sets seen below​


    I wanted to start this discussion to talk about Gardevoir, a Pokemon who was previously ignored in favor of the more versatile Mesprit. Now with the Tier Shifts a few major things happened in the NU metagame. NU has gained Charizard, Sawsbuck, Ludicolo, and has lost Mesprit. With Mesprit gone Gardy has a new lease on life and there are few things now keeping Gardevoir as a top tier NU Pokemon as it doesn't live under another Pokemon's shadow anymore. This makes Gardevoir's support sets much more viable, however with the advent of these new threats the NU metagame has shifted to become more weather based with Prankster weather setters such as Volbeat leading the pack of Sun and Rain abusers.

    This discussion will be about what you have played with and found to be the best Gardevoir sets and to spread around the word of what I believe to be Gardevoir's strongest niche in this weather abusing metagame.


    [SET]
    name: Weather Revenger
    move 1: Psychic
    move 2: Shadow Ball
    move 3: Focus Blast
    move 4: Thunderbolt / Trick
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Trace
    nature(s): Modest
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe

    • Gardevoir's incredible ability,Trace, allows it to copy a weather abuser's ability and use it against it. Gardevoir can copy a Victreebel, Sawsbuck, Exeggutor, or even Shiftry's(Most common set is Special Growth with Nature Power(Earthquake)) Chlorophyll and revenge kill them with the appropriate move. Same can be said against Swift Swimmers such as Gorebyss, Huntail, Seismitoad, Armaldo, and Ludicolo but they usually require previous damage.

    • Even without weather abusers to revenge kill, Gardevoir is never dead weight as it is a very powerful Pokemon in its own right and can tear massive holes in teams. Gardevoir has a choice between either Thunderbolt or Trick, Thunderbolt allows Gardevoir to take down Gorebyss without any prior damage while Trick lets it dump its Choice item on troublesome Pokemon such as Lickilicky after it has removed weather abusers from the field. Thunderbolt is not required to revenge kill Charizard as after a round of Solar Power damage Gardevoir's Traced Solar Power boosted Psychic is enough to take it down.


    [SET]
    name: Weather Supporter
    move 1: Sunny Day / Rain Dance
    move 2: Healing Wish
    move 3: Psychic
    move 4: Taunt / Thunderbolt
    item: Heat Rock / Damp Rock
    ability: Trace
    nature(s): Calm
    EVs: 240 HP / 184 SpD / 84 Spe

    • While the first set set out to destroy weather abusers, this one aims to support it the best way it can, by setting up weather and using Healing Wish to save a Charizard or Gorebyss from the abyss. Psychic and Tbolt provide good coverage and hit hard coming off Gardevoir's massive 125 base Special Attack. Taunt allows Gardevoir to beat Volbeat in the weather war. You can Taunt it and shut it down allowing you to freely set your own weather up. This set carries enough speed to outspeed uninvested base 90 Pokemon such as Golbat who could Taunt and prevent you from setting up Weather. 240 HP and 184 SpD rather than 252 HP and 172 SpD because with 172 SpD you miss out on a SpD jump point by 4 EVs. The trade off is 3 HP for 4 SpD points and a leftovers number.

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Calm Mind
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Psychic
    move 3: Shadow Ball
    move 4: Focus Blast
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Trace
    nature(s): Timid
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe

    • Gardevoir has the right power, bulk, and coverage moves to abuse an offensive Calm Mind set. It can set up by taking advantage of its Trace ability and offensive pressure such as Tracing a Raichu's Lightningrod and tank Hidden Power [Ice] or Grass Knot or use its offensive pressure to set-up a Calm Mind against Pokemon such as Vileplume, Amoonguss, or Weezing who fear getting struck by a Psychic. Max speed and Timid allow Gardevoir to outspeed a good portion of the metagame to strike down with its Calm Mind boosted attacks.


    [SET]
    name: Defensive Calm Mind
    move 1: Substitute / Reflect
    move 2: Calm Mind
    move 3: Stored Power / Psychic
    move 4: Signal Beam
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Trace
    nature(s): Bold
    EVs: 252 HP / 188 Def / 68 Spe

    • This set takes on a more defensive approach towards the abuse of Calm Mind by using either Substitute to block status or Reflect to minimize the physical damage Gardevoir will take as it buffs up its already beefy Special Defense and powers up its already frighteningly high Special Attack. While this set doesn't operate as fast as the Offensive variant, proper set-up will it make it much harder to counter and overall more destructive. As most Gardevoir sets revolve around support and abusing Substitute, the enemy won't even be aware you will be setting up for their eminent doom until its too late to stop Gardevoir. Even against some Pokemon knowing is not enough as with Trace Gardevoir is free to set up on a potent special wall such as Flareon and easily take it down after a few boosts with Stored Power.
    • As for Gardevoir's STAB move it can use the always reliable Psychic or the destructive Stored Power. Stored Power will deal more damage with the more boosts which with this variant of Gardevoir will be easy to set up and will outdamage Psychic after 2 Calm Minds and is the recommended choice although Psychic is a good choice that works in every situation when you need to attack and cannot set up. EVs give Gardevoir good physical bulk and the ability to outspeed Misdreavus who Gardevoir can set up on at +1 and cleanly OHKO at +3 with a Stored Power. Physical Bulk is also enough to set up freely on Alomomola who cannot break Gardy's Substitutes or Toxic.



    [SET]
    name: SubWisp
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Will-O-Wisp
    move 3: Psychic
    move 4: Signal Beam / Thunderbolt
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Trace
    nature(s): Modest
    EVs: 40 HP / 252 SAtk / 216 Spe

    • This set aims to not only support the team with WoW but also take advantage of the burns by using Substitute and strike opposing Pokemon down with its powerful attacks coming of Gardevoir's powerful base 125 Special Attack. By burning opposing Pokemon Gardevoir will have a much easier time keeping its Substitute and can begin to beat down Pokemon standing in its way. Psychic and Thunderbolt provide excellent coverage in 2 moves although Signal Beam is usable to hit Exeggutor, Cacturne, Shiftry, and Absol super effectively. The only commonly used Pokemon not hit at least neutrally by Gardevoir's Psychic- and Bug-type coverage moves is Probopass who cannot hurt Gardevoir while it gets slowly killed by burn and Psychic.



    [SET]
    name: SubSplit
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Pain Split
    move 3: Psyshock
    move 4: Signal Beam
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Trace
    nature(s): Modest
    EVs: 156 HP / 136 SAtk / 216 Spe

    • In addition to Wish Gardevoir also has access to Pain Split, which is often overlooked but can work to great affect by making the combination of Substitute and Life Orb viable. This set takes advantage of those two things draining Gardevoir's life to use Pain Split to not only recover health but take away some of the opposing Pokemon's health. This provides you with more opportunities to Substitute and makes it easier for Gardevoir to get the final blow. With Substitute, Pain Split, Life Orb, Trace, and Psyshock Gardevoir actually has the ability to take down beating annoying special walls such as Flareon or Lickilicky a huge boon that not not many special attackers can claim to do without relying on Trick or Switcheroo.

    • Unlike other sets Signal Beam is a necessity as it prevents Tangela and Exeggutor from walling your Psyshock as it hits them from their bulkier side. EVs are set for Gardevoir to have an easier time setting up Substitute against said Tangela while still hitting hard. 216 Speed EVs allow Gardevoir to outspeed Adamant Absol and force it into a Sucker Punch and Night Slash mindgame.


    [SET]
    name: SubDisable
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Disable
    move 3: Psychic
    move 4: Signal Beam / Thunderbolt
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Trace
    nature(s): Modest
    EVs: 156 HP / 136 SAtk / 216 Spe

    • Similar to the SubWisp set, this version of Gardevoir aims to take advantage of Substitute while being disruptive against the opponent. Trace is again an incredible ability letting it disrupt Pokemon such as Flareon and Raichu by using their abilities against them forcing them to rely on status or coverage moves respectively to beat Gardevoir. Substitute blocks status and combined with Disable will force a Pokemon out letting Gardevoir keep its Substitute and hit back with its good coverage and huge Special Attack. The spread is bulkier than SubWisp due to this set's ability to set up a Sub is not by weakening the opposition's power but by limiting them to only weak coverage moves.

    • This EV spread outspeed Adamant Absol setting up a Substitute and using Disable to prevent it from attacking Gardevoir with Night Slash. From there Gardevoir is giving a new lease on life from being forced to play the Night Slash and Sucker Punch mind game. Signal Beam and Psychic will hit everything commonly used it NU for at least neutral damage barring Probopass. Thunderbolt can be used to hit Probopass or Skuntank harder than Signal Beam but misses out on hitting Exeggutor, Cacturne, or Shiftry with neutral damage.


    [SET]
    name: Memento
    move 1: Reflect
    move 2: Light Screen
    move 3: Memento
    move 4: Taunt / Psychic
    item: Light Clay
    ability: Trace
    nature(s): Timid
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    • By utilizing Reflect and Light Screen Gardevoir can support a variety of teams by providing an extra cushion against the oppositions attacks. This coupled with Gardevoir's solid bulk and speed and Memento make it the one of the best, if not the best sweep assists in the game allowing for clutch Dragon Dance with Altaria or setting up the deadly Linoone with its Belly Drum. While its main job is to suicide to maximize the chances of the late game sweep, with its recilient defenses it can come in earlier to support its teammates with Screens before coming in for its final sacrifice.


    [SET]
    name: Support
    move 1: Wish
    move 2: Protect / Heal Bell
    move 3: Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
    move 4: Psychic
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Trace
    nature(s): Calm
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    • With Mesprit gone Gardevoir is free to take its place as a good support Pokemon whose only competitor Hypno lacks Will-O-Wisp. Trace is again a terrific ability letting it switch into Pokemon like Flareon, gain its Flash Fire and be unaffected by Lava Plume while Gardevoir can Toxic it. With Max HP an Max Special Defense Gardevoir is capable of sponging many attacks from the various special attackers in NU such as Magmortar, Rotom-S, and Vileplume.
  2. ChaoticaMortis

    ChaoticaMortis

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    I've gotta admit, that Weather Revenger set is pure genius, I'll add some relevant discussion after I test some of these sets out.

    EDIT: Ok, so far I've only used the Weather Revenger set, but it has been the MVP of my team in over half of my battles (the other half being a Sawsbuck-Rapidash core). Gardevoir has done everything it was supposed to do with this set and more; she's taken down Sawsbuck, offensive Ludicolo, Charizard, and other weather attackers, as well as laying waste to things like opposing Rapidash (nullifying Flare Blitz with her Traced Flash Fire) and stealing useful abilities from things like Sawk. I've had a lot of fun with it.
  3. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    Gardevoir is one of the Pokemon that really enjoyed these tier changes. Mesprit's gone, weather is getting extremely popular; Gardevoir is likely to be a big threat in this new meta because of these two things.

    I don't find the Choice Scarf set that useful, as Gardevoir does just fine against rain teams without using a Choice Scarf. Against sun teams, however, it's good for outspeeding Charizard/Sawsbuck. It's fun killing off a sun team after tracing Charizard's Solar Power!

    Calm Mind sets are my favorite Gardevoir sets. Now that Mesprit's gone, Gardevoir is the best balanced Calm Minder. In fact, it's the only Calm Mind user in the tier other than Musharna (who, by the way, is an amazing Pokemon that you should try out some time) and the lesser-seen Calm Mind Jynx. Gardevoir's high Special Attack, Special Defense, and decent Speed make it a pretty good candidate for a Calm Mind user. SubCM Gardevoir is also pretty good. I've been wanting to try out CM WoW Gardevoir for a while; has anyone here used that variation of Gardevior this tier shift? If so, what did you like about it and what wasn't so great about it?

    Defensive Gardevoir is also pretty decent. It doesn't really check that much in particular, but it has pretty high Special Defense and a great support movepool! Plus, it can actually hurt stuff, even with an uninvested Special Attack.

    I've actually never considered using Gardevoir for a weather setter; thanks for the idea! Pokemon with Healing Wish are far and few in-between; much less are actually good at setting up weather. You probably don't need that much Speed investment, though. I'd probably move some of that Speed over to Special Defense to allow Gardevoir to switch-in and set-up easier.

    Anyways, it seems like a big reason why this thread was made because of how Gardevoir affects weather. As such, I'd like to hear the responses to these questions:

    • How does using a Gardevior help your team against weather?
    • How does the threat of Gardevior impact people who are making weather teams?
    • How does Gardevior help a weather team; what differentiates it from other weather setters that makes it a more potentially efficient weather setter than others?

    Cheers! (Also, EBeast, some NU analyses will get updated. Gardevoir will probably be one of the Pokemon that will be updated, so if you want to write the update, just PM me and I'll make sure you have it. =) Thanks for making this thread.)
  4. TROP

    TROP *tips fedora*
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    I have only used the Weather set and she has been very useful,but as DTC said I would drop the speed evs a bit just enough to outrun non speed Volbeat or Murkrow to Taunt them first should be enough while putting the rest in either sp.D or sp.A as it fits better. Though I used a slightly more defensive variant with Will-o-miss to burn incoming Absol and Skuntank and have an easier time with my Weather attackers.

    1.Taunting the more common prankster weather inducers, bringing Charizard back to full Power and sometimes stop Rocks by herself.
    2.Until now I am not really that worried about Gardevoir because she is somewhat rare and when she is seen it is usually a CM or Support set.
    3.Healing Wish an attacker back to full hp before hazards when it might look he was gone.Trace allows her to taunt the Prankster one and getting her own Weather first thought it is slightly dumb when both players have the same weather but Taunting Volbeat before they do anything is nice and she has actual offensive power.
  5. Endorfins

    Endorfins Your Worst Nightmare
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    I've used to Weather revenger with great success, she is my go to Pokemon against Chlorophyll and Swift Swim sweepers. Psychic is powerful but on a team with Shiftry and Victreebel, prediction can be pretty risky with Focus Blast / Psychic. However, Traceing Swift swim and Chlorophyll isn't the only the Gardevoir can do, I've also had fun tracing Prankster, Flash Fire from Flareon then absorbing a Charizards Fire Blast in the Sun (lol), Sturdy and Regenerator. Gardevoir is an all round great Poke.

    It seems people have forgotten the amazing Dual Screens set with Memento, which lets any setup sweeper set up safely. Ive had great fun using it with Linoone which just destroys any team without Regirock, Probo, Bastiodon or Quagsire
  6. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    Oh damn I definitely did forget about that, editing it in asap.

    EDIT: Came back to check on this, realized I forgot to save the set. :/
    EDIT 2: Edited set in and changed Weather Supporter's Evs. It just aims to outspeed Golbat and has the most beneficial defensive spread.
  7. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
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    The weather revenger set has worked really well for me so far. Another set that has been annoying when used against me is the SubWoW set that DTC(I think) was hyping in an old Research Week. It has been very good so far this meta IMO. Gardevoir is a pokemon to look out for
  8. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    Yes! SubWisp as amazing, and I did include it originally, but forgot to save and just exited out and had to write it again, but forgot about it. :''(
    I love crippling things with WoW to make Gardy's Sub take a hit and go to town with its powerful attacks. Definitely need to include that now.
  9. Django

    Django
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    I absolutely love the weather supporter set with Healing Wish. So many teams fail to deal with the same Sun/Rain sweeper twice
  10. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
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    Shame the weather set doesn't beat Charizard >_>

    That said, Trace looks like great fun to abuse in this tier, I had to double take when it Traced Sap Sipper from my CB Sawsbuck and became immune to Horn Leech, and came in again to Trace Lightningrod from Zebstrika and start a sweep. -_-
  11. November Blue

    November Blue NO YOUTUBE, I DO NOT WANT TO WATCH VIDEOS AT MAX VOLUME!!
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    EBeast suggested the weather revenger set to me a few days ago, and I'm really liking it so far. Reminds me of Impostor Ditto.

    With Mesprit banished, Gardevoir is now the best supporting Psychic-type in NU, and it's really good at supporting. Gardy's movepool stretches all the way to Kanto and back, and IMO, it has a LOT of untapped potential.

    It can run a SubWisp set pretty well, it can do all kinds of things with Trace ... It might even be able to puff off a SubDisable set, especially if it Traces an ability that gives it an immunity, such as Levitate or Lightningrod.

    Has anyone tried to use it to help another Pokemon set up by using Encore?
    Or how about SubSplit to get past special walls?
    Gardevoir gets Stored Power! With Trace, it'd be a great QuiverPass Masquerain or Tail Glow Volbeat recipient.
  12. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    I agree, very versatile indeed. :D As for now, I'll have a good look at Gardy's moves and try to come up with a few other sets to include.

    EDIT: Added in SubDisable and added more to descriptions. Decided that on Gardy sets with only 2 attack moveslots Psychic + Signal Beam was better than with Tbolt. saved time just in case I accidentally close the page again. Will be adding Defensive CM and SubSplit soon.

    EDIT2: Added in sets, and added some Bolding in set names and bullet points to look more organized.
  13. nyttyn

    nyttyn No regrets
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    I used gardevoir before it was cool. Now I feel like a total hipster.


    Jokes aside, here's a set i've had massive success with.

    Gardevoir @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Trace
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Psyshock
    - Focus Blast
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Omnicoverage, feigns choice specs, and completely trolls sun teams. It can beat Adamant sawsbuck, but not Jolly. Basically a slower Starmie with better SpDef, HP, and SpAtk.
  14. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    Thanks for all the great discussion on this guys. :D I'm glad you've found success and had fun with the Weather Revenger set Chaotica, the set did great when Raseri used it against me in the first ever match of the new NU tier. This will come a long way with helping me make the Gardevoir Update Analysis....with all those 9 sets.

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