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Pokémon Gardevoir

Discussion in 'OverUsed' started by Halcyon., Oct 14, 2013.

  1. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Certified Lumberjack
    is a Contributor to Smogon

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    Gardevoir #282

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Type: [​IMG][​IMG]
    Abilities: Trace / Synchronize / Telepathy / Pixilate (Mega Forme only)
    Base Stats: 68 / 65 / 65 / 125 / 115 / 80 (Normal Forme) 68 / 75 / 65 / 175 / 135 / 100 (Mega Forme)

    Moveset:

    Full Learnset (open)

    By level up (as known):

    Start Healing Wish
    Start Growl
    Start Confusion
    Start Double Team
    Start Teleport
    Lvl 6 Confusion
    Lvl 10 Double Team
    Lvl 12 Teleport
    Lvl 17 Lucky Chant
    Lvl 22 Magical Leaf
    Lvl 25 Heal Pulse
    Lvl 33 Calm Mind
    Lvl 40 Psychic
    Lvl 45 Imprison
    Lvl 53 Future Sight
    Lvl 60 Captivate
    Lvl 65 Hypnosis
    Lvl 73 Dream Eater
    Lvl 80 Stored Power
    Lvl ?? Moon Blast

    By TM (as known):

    TM03 Psyshock
    TM04 Calm Mind
    TM06 Toxic
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM11 Sunny Day
    TM12 Taunt
    TM15 Hyper Beam
    TM16 Light Screen
    TM17 Protect
    TM18 Rain Dance
    TM19 Telekinesis
    TM20 Safeguard
    TM21 Frustration
    TM24 Thunderbolt
    TM27 Return
    TM29 Psychic
    TM30 Shadow Ball
    TM32 Double Team
    TM33 Reflect
    TM41 Torment
    TM42 Facade
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM46 Thief
    TM47 Round
    TM48 Echoed Voice
    TM51 Ally Switch
    TM52 Focus Blast
    TM53 Energy Ball
    TM56 Fling
    TM57 Charge Beam
    TM61 Will-O-Wisp
    TM68 Giga Impact
    TM70 Flash
    TM73 Thunder Wave
    TM77 Psych Up
    TM85 Dream Eater
    TM86 Grass Knot
    TM87 Swagger
    TM90 Substitute
    TM92 Trick Room
    TM99 Dazzling Gleam
    TM100 Confide

    By Breeding (as known):
    Confuse Ray
    Destiny Bond
    Disable
    Encore
    Grudge
    Mean Look
    Memento
    Shadow Sneak
    Skill Swap
    Memento



    Notable Moves:
    Psychic
    Psyshock
    Calm Mind
    Hypnosis
    Toxic
    Hidden Power
    Substitute
    Will-O-Wisp
    Taunt
    Thunderbolt
    Shadow Ball
    Focus Blast
    Rest
    Sleep Talk
    Destiny Bond
    Encore
    Memento
    Reflect
    Light Screen​

    Analysis:
    Gardevoir has gained a second chance in the OU community, as it has been retyped to Psychic / Fairy, giving it a fantastic x4 resistance to Fighting, an immunity to Dragon, and a neutrality to Dark, most notably Pursuit. Given that Gardevoir's stats aren't horrible due to its above average Special Defense and Special Attack, Gardevoir might actually see some use in OU. It's support movepool is anything but sparse, containing gems like Will-O-Wisp, Destiny Bond, Encore, Memento, Dual Screens, Thunder Wave, Trick Room, Toxic, Sunny Day, and Rain Dance. even Hypnosis could be used, despite the shaky accuracy. But an offensive/tankish set can also be worthwhile, as base 125 Special Attack is nothing to scoff at. With moves like Shadow Ball, Psyshock, and Focus Blast, Gardevoir can take up the normal role of CM sweeper, or can set itself apart by using Dazzling Gleam, which is arguably better than Psychic as far as coverage goes. Mega Gardevoir can also be useful for more offensive sets, as its speed is increased to 100, and its Special Attack goes up drastically to 175, far surpassing Gardevoir with Life Orb. However, realistically it will see little use, as other Mega Pokémon like Alakazam, Charizard, and Lucario will find themselves on more teams. That doesn't mean that Gardevoir won't be viable, as it may still have the tools it needs to succeed in the OU tier.

    Possible Sets

    [​IMG]
    Gardevoir @ Leftovers
    Ability: Trace
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
    Calm Nature
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Moonblast
    - Wish
    - Protect / Toxic / Encore / Taunt

    This set aims to take advantage of Gardevoir's great Special Defense as well as its stellar typing. It takes only 1/4 damage from Fighting attacks, and loses its weakness to Dark and Bug moves thanks to its new Fairy typing. Will-O-Wisp is a great answer to physical attackers thanks to its buffed Accuracy of 85 in this generation, as it cuts the Attack in half of those Pokémon that might want to switch into Gardevoir, and gives it a way to cripple the Dragons whose Outrages/Dragon Claws Gardevoir can absorb. Moonblast acts as a STAB move, hitting the Fighting and Dragon types it will switch into super effectively. It can also be passed to other teammates, though base 68 HP isn't ideal for Wish passing. Unfortunately, this is Gardevoir's only means of recovery, so Protect is the bets move to use in the last slot, though other support options are fine, such as the ones listed above. Each of them has their uses. Trace is a really cool ability for a defensive Pokémon, as it can Trace Heatran's Flash Fire (Heatran will be huge this gen, mark my words), Reuniclus's Magic Guard (not useful to the average team, but Encore can really help stall teams finally beat this stupid fetus bear!), Gyarados's Intimidate, and many others.

    [​IMG]
    Gardevoir @ Leftovers
    Ability: Trace
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 76 HP / 4 SDef / 176 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Moonblast
    - Focus Blast
    - Psyshock / Shadow Ball / Substitute

    Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
    Ability: Pixilate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    - Calm Mind / Taunt
    - Hyper Voice
    - Focus Blast
    - Psyshock

    If defensive sets aren't your cup of tea, then don't fret! Gardevoir has more than enough Special Attack to function as an effective user of Calm Mind. With the given EVs, Gardevoir can outspeed Adamant Breloom (though I have a feeling it will become less relevant in the coming generation), and the rest is placed in bulk and Special Attack. Moonblast and Focus Blast provide perfect neutral coverage aside from a few dual typed Ghosts like Gengar and Aegislash. That's why Shadow Ball is the preferred choice for the final slot, though Hidden Power Ice gives it better super effective coverage. Substitute can also be used, as it Protects Gardevoir from status and revenge killing, while simultaneously easing prediction. Mega Gardevoir plays very similarly, the only difference is that it uses max speed. It has much higher Special Attack, and though it misses out on Leftovers recovery, it is fast and strong enough to not care.

    Checks and Counters
    The first and greatest problem that Gardevoir will face in OU is Aegislash. It has STAB Shadow Sneak coming off base 150 Attack, meaning it can easily 2HKO Gardevoir if it isn't behind a Substitute. Gardevoir will need to burn it with Will-O-Wisp if it wants to live, but even when burned, a +2 Shadow Sneak can 2HKO. In fact, Ghost types in general can be problematic for Gardevoir, as it isn't as fast as it would like to be, meaning that Gengar can still do a ton of damage to Gardevoir even if it is fully invested in bulk. The second big problem for Gardeoir is competition, and a lot of it is unknown! We have no idea what will be good or what won't in the coming generation, but its safe to assume there will be many viable Fairy types to play the defensive role, and many special attacker that will take the offensive role. Still, I think that Gardevoir will be at least viable in Gen VI. What do you think?
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2014
  2. Don Honchkrorleone

    Don Honchkrorleone

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    I think you forgot Moonblast
  3. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Certified Lumberjack
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    I added Moon Blast, but I don't know at what level it learns it, so I'm just leaving it as "Lvl ??" for now. Thanks Don <3 I hate you.
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
  4. TaBuu

    TaBuu

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    The only thing that makes Gardevoir OU worthy is that dress.
    ----
    Maybe it's just me, but I don't see too much of a merit in using regular CM Gardevoir when Mega CM Gardevoir exists.
    Leftovers and Trace are probably better suited for more defensively oriented sets.
    Also for that first set I'd probably throw some of those SDef EVs into Def. Base 65 Defense is pretty fail and having to always depend on WoW is a little dangerous. Plus it'll cushion moves even better once the physical attack is burned!
  5. Jaroda

    Jaroda

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    Gardevoir will only be weak to what now, Poison and Steel? Having Dragon and Fighting moves be essentially useless against you is not to be underestimated with said stats and movepool. Highly likely to supersede Blissey and Jirachi as many people's go-to special sponges, being able to actually attack back. MegaGardevoir will likely be overlooked like you mentioned for other Megamon (depending on banning), but yeah, Gardevoir likely has a spot in OU this time.
    Aoda and Halcyon. like this.
  6. TaBuu

    TaBuu

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    Little usage? IDK. Gardevoir looks pretty threatening, on paper at least...
    lttatter likes this.
  7. radica

    radica

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    Moonblast does 95/100%/chance to lower sp attack, Dazzling Gleam does 80/100% does it cause flinch or something? Also, Hyper Voice (after December)?
  8. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Certified Lumberjack
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    Moonblast is better, but I can't find any confirmation about when or how it learns it, so I hadn't added it to the sets. But I'll change that now.
    Jaiho likes this.
  9. unfixable

    unfixable sad girl ☆彡♪
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    Doesn't Dazzling Gleam have 80 BP with no added affect? I can't see how it is better than Moonblast tbh.
  10. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Certified Lumberjack
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    Jaiho likes this.
  11. unfixable

    unfixable sad girl ☆彡♪
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    Yeah, I was talking about this post:
  12. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Certified Lumberjack
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    Yes, and I already addressed it. Anyway this is pointless. I changed it to Moonblast because it is indeed better than Dazzling Gleam. Does anyone have any actual insight on Gardevoir in OU? -___-
    Jaiho likes this.
  13. Kinglypuff

    Kinglypuff

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    Gardevoir learns Moonblast, mine runs it. :)
  14. unfixable

    unfixable sad girl ☆彡♪
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    Did you even read the thread.
  15. Super Mario Bro

    Super Mario Bro All we ever look for

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    I don't see why Gardevoir would invest in Max Special Defense, considering its base Physical Defense stat is paltry and Fairy type's resistances are primarily physical. Not to mention, Gardevoir's Special Defense is pretty stellar as is.

    Gardevoir (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Trace
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Moon Blast
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Wish
    - Protect

    Gardevoir is unique in that it's the only Fairy-type that can learn Will-O-Wisp, so that should be enough to distinguish it from Fairies like Sylveon. Trace is nifty as well, allowing it to switch into things like Dragon Dance Gyarados with relative ease.
    IsThisKyle, Ryperior and Doughboy like this.
  16. Kinglypuff

    Kinglypuff

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    Sorryyy, Just read diagonally, shouldn't have done that ! >.<
  17. Bribery

    Bribery

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  18. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Certified Lumberjack
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    Jaiho likes this.
  19. Shroomisaur

    Shroomisaur Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.

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    As much as I love Gardevoir, there's no way she is ever going to fill Blissey's role of special sponge. Her newly improved typing is a huge bonus, but 68 HP vs 255 HP is just no contest, Gardevoir's low HP holds her back from being able to take repeated special hits. Even with 252/252+ defense, her physical defense is nearly identical to a 4/252+ Blissey. Her Mega does nothing to fix her awful physical defense and base 100 speed leaves her easily revenged, so I personally don't see much use for her Mega-evo (not to mention Pixilate is nearly worthless).

    However I've used her a lot in NU this gen and she's a great choice, Gardevoir has tons of utility (including WoW which is huge) and hits very hard. Gardevoir will likely have a solid niche as a Dragon counter with her new typing, and will have a many more opportunities to switch in. Trace still works very well in combination to check specific threats like Heatran, and combines well with a Choice Scarf, which is my favorite set. I'm curious to see how viable she will be... at the very least, I'm incredibly happy to know she will be moving on up out of NU!
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
  20. Jaroda

    Jaroda

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    I'm not questioning Blissey's raw potency of her combined HP and SpD, but in the new metagame that I'm referring to, she will be of far more use being able to actually attack things and, again, nullifying Dragon and, effectively, Fighting moves. Her options are much much greater than Blissey's.

    My point is if you were using Blissey or Jirachi solely to eat Draco Meteors, than congratulations, you've found your new mon. And she's prettier too! :D
    Karxrida, Aoda, Godsend and 1 other person like this.
  21. Adonzo

    Adonzo

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    Unfortunately, I don't think Gardevoir has any business switching in on non-choiced Heatran. Heatran resists both her STABs, outspeeds and threatens back with a powerful Flash Cannon (which it actually has reason to run now).

    Really is a shame about Pixillate. Mega Gardevoir has literally NO reason to run a Normal-move outside of some ill-fated Hyper Beam shenanigans.

    EDIT: Wow, where did I get the idea that Heatran had 90 Speed o.O
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
  22. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Certified Lumberjack
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    Offensive Gardevoir can switch into Heatran, tank Earth Power or HP Ice if it predicts the switch, and then threaten it with Focus Blast or set up on it. Yes, it fears Flash Cannon, but we don't know that Heatran will run it on the standard offensive set (though I agree it might). If Heatran lacks Flash Cannon, a SDef set can PP stall it with Wish + Protect. I still think it's a decent switch-in.
    Jaiho likes this.
  23. Shroomisaur

    Shroomisaur Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.

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    Heatran does not outspeed (77 vs 80), and she has Focus Blast to hit Heatran with. Flash Cannon is the only move that Gardevoir has to fear from Heatran, although I certainly agree that Heatran will be running that this gen.

    Edit: actually Focus Miss is only (74.92 - 88.54%) against Heatran while Flash Cannon is (84.17 - 99.28%) against Gardevoir, so it's a dicey matchup unless Heatran is choiced.
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
    Imitatia and Halcyon. like this.
  24. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
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    Since when does absolute stop mean getting 2hko'ed by threats 90% of the time with SR down lol

    Two of the examples you gave:
    252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gardevoir: 153-181 (45 - 53.23%) -- 93.36% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gardevoir: 225-270 (66.17 - 79.41%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Doing 61% min before you attack should not be taken lightly. You are going to be trying really hard to stay above that health, and that is if Luke does min damage

    +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario ExtremeSpeed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gardevoir: 208-246 (61.17 - 72.35%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes

    And this isn't taking into account Lucario can run Bullet Punch viably:
    +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gardevoir: 312-369 (91.76 - 108.52%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    or be running Borked MegaLucario that will be running adaptability SD - Bullet Punch - Close Combat - Crunch

    Another Example:
    252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gardevoir: 174-205 (51.17 - 60.29%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    So yeah the best Fight-types in OU all 2HKO it? Full stop yeah right
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2013
  25. TaBuu

    TaBuu

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    I meant like ... being able to switch into their Fighting moves primarily and then working from there

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