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Gastrodon (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by GtM, Jan 3, 2011.

  1. GtM

    GtM

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    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Gastrodon
    Status: Will be written up in about a week's time.

    QC: (PK Gaming, Iconic, Bloo) GP: (Zystral, Erebyssial)

    [Overview]
    <p>With the single most common pokemon in the OU metagame being a Grass-type, it is understandable that previously-useful bulky Water-types such as Swampert have seen a rapid fall in usage. Although Gastrodon was seldom used in the previous generation, it has curiously managed to avoid this trend and has actually gained significant popularity for a number of reasons. Gastrodon's signature ability, Storm Drain, has been buffed tremendously, not only giving it an immunity to Water-type attacks but also giving Gastrodon a free Special Attack boost when it is hit by one. In addition, because many teams now use Ferrothorn as their only Grass-type attacker, Hidden Power Grass is now almost never used, letting Gastrodon completely wall special attackers such as Starmie, Rotom-W, and Politoed. Because Gastrodon now boasts all of these advantages over its competitors and the metagame in general, it has turned from a trivial novelty into an unexpectedly dangerous tank, either when statusing helpless opponents or simply destroying them with the extra power that Storm Drain can provide.</p>

    [Set]
    name: Tank
    move 1: Earth Power
    move 2: Ice Beam / Scald
    move 3: Toxic
    move 4: Recover
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Storm Drain
    nature: Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD

    [Set Comments]

    <p>This set allows Gastrodon to capitalize on its natural special bulk, making it a solid check some to the tier's most threatening special sweepers whilst still maintaining an offensive presence. Some of the pokemon that Gastrodon can hard counter include Latios, Heatran, Rotom-W, Thundurus, and Starmie, all of which fail to deal any significant damage even with Grass-type attacks. For example, Life Orb Starmie's Grass Knot fails to OHKO by a significant margin, as does +2 Life Orb Thundurus's Focus Blast, which only deals 63.8% - 75.1% damage. Likewise, even Draco Meteor from Life Orb Latios fails to 2HKO. Gastrodon can also capitalize on its resistance to Rock and pose a significant threat to Tyranitar, hitting it for super effective damage with either of its STABs or threatening it with status. Meanwhile, Tyranitar's Crunch cannot 2HKO Gastrodon even with uninvested Defense, unless it gets lucky with a defense drop.</p>

    <p>Once Gastrodon's in, it can either threaten the opponent offensively using its excellent coverage and STAB (with a possible Storm Drain boost), status a switch-in, or simply Recover off any damage to scout the opponent's decision. Earth Power is the STAB attack of choice here, hitting many of the Water-types that Gastrodon counters harder than Surf, as well as providing a powerful STAB in general. Ice Beam gives Gastrodon coverage against top threats such as Latios, Dragonite, and other common targets like Gliscor and Salamence should you get them on the switch. Scald is also a good option, letting you hit Skarmory and Bronzong for decent damage whilst also letting you attempt to burn certain opponents, such as Excadrill and Jirachi. Toxic lets Gastrodon threaten many opponents it couldn't otherwise touch, such as Rotom-W, with permanent and debilitating status, whilst Recover lets it stall out enemies and increases its survivability.</p>

    [Additional Comments]

    <p>This EV spread gives Gastrodon the maximum special bulk possible. However, a physically defensive EV spread of 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpD with a Bold nature can also be used, as it can allows Gastrodon to take significantly less damage from neutral physical attacks such as Excadrill's Earthquakes and Terrakion's Close Combat. Whilst this slightly reduces Gastrodon's utility against special attackers, the extra physical bulk and ability to capitalize fully on Ice Beam may be worth it, depending on your team's strengths and weaknesses. If you'd like Gastrodon to possess more offensive power than its meagre 220 Special Attack provides, then an EV spread of 124 HP / 252 SpA / 132 SpD with a Modest nature is perfectly viable. Both spreads allow Gastrodon to survive a +2 LO Focus Blast from Thundurus and still prevent Choice Scarf Latios from 2HKOing with Draco Meteor, although Life Orb variants can now break through Gastrodon's defenses. Whilst Gastrodon can go mixed and use Earthquake, bear in mind that it still fails to 2HKO offensive Tyranitar without investment and doesn't get boosted by Storm Drain. Likewise, while Hidden Power Fire is a tempting option to fry Ferrothorn with, it fails to OHKO and Gastrodon absolutely cannot take a Power Whip even from fully defensive variants.</p>

    [Set]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Surf
    move 2: Earth Power
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Recover
    item: Choice Specs
    ability: Storm Drain
    nature: Modest
    evs: 240 HP / 252 SpA / 16 SpD

    [Set Comments]

    <p>With Choice Specs, a Storm Drain boost and possible Drizzle support from an opponent's Politoed or your own, Choice Specs Gastrodon is a very real threat in today's metagame with its perfect neutral coverage. To put its power into perspective, with all of the above, Gastrodon has the equivalent of 1046 Special Attack when using Surf. Opponents will have serious problems switching into Gastrodon; maximum power Surf is guaranteed to 2HKO physically defensive Ferrothorn. If you predict it switching in, Earth Power deals 52.8% - 62.5% to even the most specially defensive variants. Surf also deals 48.9% - 57.7% to 252 HP Bold Blissey; unfortunately, this misses a guaranteed 2HKO, but it certainly dents it enough to make it scramble for recovery. As you can see, with this much power available to Gastrodon in certain situations, it can prove to be a devastating wallbreaker against Drizzle teams and an excellent offensive counter to them in general. Of course, Gastrodon is not limited purely to countering Drizzle teams with this set, it still has enough bulk to stop most special attackers in their tracks. Considering many common pokemon give you a free attack and several give you Storm Drain boosts, Gastrodon finds many opportunities to wreak havoc.</p>

    <p>Surf, Earth Power, and Ice Beam all have excellent neutral coverage and great Base Power; with good prediction, there aren't many threats that can stand up to one of Gastrodon's attacks. Recover is used in the 4th slot simply because any offensive option would seldom be used, and it can be used to heal if you predict your opponent switching to Blissey or the like. If you're looking for an attack to use in this slot, Hidden Power Fire is the best option, since it can OHKO all Ferrothorn with just a Storm Drain boost and the absence of rain.</p>

    [Additional Comments]

    <p>Alternatively, Gastrodon can elect to run a Life Orb instead of using Choice Specs. Whilst this has obvious advantages such as the ability to switch moves and the ability to use Recover more effectively, it also leaves Gastrodon unable to 2HKO physically defensive Ferrothorn and Blissey with a Storm Drain boost in the rain. This somewhat compromises Gastrodon's role as an over-the-top wallbreaker, but can be more useful depending on your team. Also, in terms of managing Gastrodon's defenses, the given EV spread allows Gastrodon to survive two Life Orb Shadow Balls from Timid Gengar, whilst also giving it as much physical bulk as possible.</p>

    [Other Options]
    <p>Gastrodon has a surprisingly extensive movepool, but unfortunately, few of these moves are worth using over the ones already listed. Yawn can be used to phaze opponents and give you time to boost your stats, but is hard to fit in over Recover or a STAB attack and synergises poorly with Toxic. Gastrodon can run a MirrorCoat + Counter set with its large HP and modest defenses, but is arguably outclassed by Wobbuffet in that respect. Clear Smog is a new addition that allows it to take on stat boosters like Quagsire whilst still having an immunity, but risks being outsped by these boosting sweepers signficantly and can risk being OHKOed by powerful Swords Dance users before it has a chance to act. Memento can be used too, but it's generally a waste on such a permanent and otherwise useful pokemon. Offensively, Gastrodon lacks any other offensive options to use. It's too slow to effectively use Icy Wind, and other Hidden Power types are largely redundant due to Gastrodon's already-excellent neutral coverage.</p>

    <p>A mono attacking set can be run with Rest / Sleep Talk / Toxic / Surf with Storm Drain, should you want a status absorber and inflictor with powerful STAB attacks. In this respect, it's a shame that Gastrodon lacks Calm Mind, but it can still be effective and alleviates Gastrodon's otherwise crippling weakness to status. Likewise, Curse and Stockpile sets can both be decent, but are largely outclassed by Unaware Quagsire unless you really need the Water immunity. In the meantime, Gastrodon remains extremely vulnerable to almost any Toxic user, as even Blissey outspeeds it with ease. In terms of other abilities, Sticky Hold has a useful niche in blocking Trick and Switcheroo entirely, shutting down threats such as Choice Scarf Jirachi and forcing them to switch. However, missing out on Storm Drain's immunity and boosting capability, and thus the source of Gastrodon's newfound popularity, is usually not worth it.</p>

    [Check and Counters]

    <p>Anything faster than Gastrodon with Toxic will rain on its parade and destroy any potential it has at tanking the opposition for long. This includes Chansey, who will wall its special attacks to no end and doesn't care about status herself. Blissey, Jellicent, and Politoed are equally annoying in this respect, although if Politoed tries to Toxic Gastrodon after its STAB attack is absorbed then it most definitely won't be coming back. To use Gastrodon as effectively as possible, ensure that the opponent isn't likely to Toxic you on the switch. As a hard counter, Ferrothorn comes close if you haven't acquired any boosts with the Choice Specs set and it manages to get in safely. It's immune to Toxic, can OHKO all Gastrodon instantly with Power Whip, or can alternatively Leech Seed the switch in or just set up Spikes. Gastrodon really can't do anything to Ferrothorn unless it can hit it with a Choice Specs, Storm Drain-boosted Earth Power on the switch. Conkeldurr can also be annoying to deal with as it can boost without fear of Toxic or Scald, is not 2HKOed by any non-boosted attack on the defensive set, and can exploit Gastrodon's weaker physical defense with a powerful Drain Punch.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>Dream World Gastrodon has been released with the ability Sand Force. Whilst it's not as good as Storm Drain on most sets, it certainly has its uses in the sand, letting Gastrodon run an intriguing Curse set with Earthquake / Stone Edge (or Ice Beam) / Recover and the equivalent of base 130 Attack when using Earthquake. On the other hand, Storm Drain is arguably more useful for Sand teams, providing a very useful Water immunity and helping to glue together the team.</p>
  2. conway

    conway

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    You still have to write the dream world section.
  3. Calm Pokemaster

    Calm Pokemaster
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    Just give a short overview about what Gastrodon gets through the Dream World-namely, Storm Drain.

    I question the use of max Speed on the Specs set. The main base 70s I can think of, which you outspeed are Breloom, Metagross and Skarmory.

    Skarmory can use you as set-up bait for Spikes, while healing off damage with Roost. Specially Defensive Skarmory never even gets 2HKOd by any of Gastrodon's attacks.

    Gastro resists Metagross's Steel STAB, and is immune to Thunder Punch. You can 2HKO it with STAB Earth Power as well.

    Breloom walks all over Gastrodon, since even if Sleep Clause is activated, Gastrodon gets mauled by Seed Bomb.

    On the GastroTank set, slash Surf with Ice Beam; Gastrodon tanks well with Toxic and Recover, and needs both.

    Simply ''Stockpile'' would be a better title for the Stockpile set, ''Doombringer'' sounds strange, but w/e, that is just my opinion.

    Solid analysis otherwise. Good luck.
  4. GtM

    GtM

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    • Gastrodon gets Sand Power from the Dream World, not Storm Drain. I'll write a little point about Sand Power, though.
    • For the Specs set, the more it outspeeds the better, and if it can't ven outspeed slow tanks that it could otherwise take out then there's not much point.
    • I'll note Skarmory as a counter.
    • I'll mention Metagross somewhere as a victim.
    • Yes, but Icy Wind on the switch will maim Breloom, and you'll outspeed for the kill if you have max speed.
    • Mmkay.
    • Yeah I know, I'll change it :P
  5. Calm Pokemaster

    Calm Pokemaster
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    All right, you obviously have a good reason for investing maximum EVs in Speed, so go ahead. I only have a minor nutpick to point out to you-remove all bolding from the analysis. It obviously looks good when you bold the headings such as [Set], but it counts as improper formatting, so I just wanted to point it out before you settle down to convert it into paragraph form. That will hopefully save you a lot of work later on.
  6. GtM

    GtM

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    Duly noted.

    Reminder: talk about how cradily can also abuse storm drain in the sand.
  7. ParaChomp

    ParaChomp

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    Gastrodon's not a dog and there can be males. (I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself).

    Anyways, might be a good idea to note that only West Sea Gastrodon have Storm Drain while only the East Sea Gastrodon have Sticky Hold. Might also want to note that you can only have 2 of the 3 on Gastrodon: Counter, Mirror Coat, Stockpile.
  8. Charmander

    Charmander mfw i have a mane and am actually the sun
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    Glad to see someone take this over for me. Good job! Just something on the Stockpile set: Why would you use burning water? Toxic is more useful on anything that it hits, and Earth Power will hit anything it doesn't (Poison and Ground-types) harder than Boiling Water. IMO, don't just use moves because they can inflict status, especially when your main goal is to Poison them
  9. GtM

    GtM

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    Earth Power is walled by Skarmory, Bronzong and Balloon Heatran, who are all immune to Toxic, whereas Boiling Water hits all of these and more annoying Steel types, although annoying Nattorei resists it. The burn chance is also handy since it can inflict status on Steels. I've already mentioned that in the additional comments... :P
  10. WeezingFTW

    WeezingFTW

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    Wouldn't Scald/Boiling Water be pretty useful on the tank set? Or is the coverage of EarthPower and Ice Beam just that much more important than the burn and STAB?
  11. GtM

    GtM

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    Good question. The main reason I didn't put Boiling Water there is because it conflicts with Toxic status wise, but I suppose it makes more sense than Ice Beam in that it deals with Skarmory and Bronzong better. I'll replace Surf with it.
  12. GtM

    GtM

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    Bumping for QC. Gastrodon is a beast and deserves more attention! <3
  13. Hex

    Hex

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    eh doesn't gastrodon only need 164 HP ev's to make 101 hp substitutes? or is the PO data incorrect to the game's content?
  14. GtM

    GtM

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    Eheh, I made this ages ago. I'll happily make those changes, I think I was tailoring this towards a possible UU when writing it.
  15. Bloo

    Bloo
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    Gastrodon's awesome in OU with Storm Drain since it can switch into threats like Choice Specs Politoed and Starmie with impunity and nab a Special Attack boost from their Water attacks. Though, I think the main EV spread should be a special defensive one: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD. This allows Gastrodon to check special attackers quite effectively. Additionally, it can check Thundurus decently, since it's immune to Electric and can either poison it or hit it with Ice Beam. The physical defensive spread can be mentioned in AC.
  16. NoJohns

    NoJohns

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    I think Rock Slide deserves a mention in the other options part of the analysis, as it can nail Volcarona for heavy damage (bulky versions can set up on Scald and Chesto-Rest can rest of Toxic Damage), while retaining the ability to 2HKO Thundurus.
  17. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

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    You have to add this set. Period.

    [Set]
    Name: SpecsSlug
    Move 1: Surf
    Move 2: Earth Power
    Move 3: Ice Beam
    Move 4: Scald / Recover / Sleep Talk
    Item: Choice Specs
    Ability: Storm Drain
    Nature: Modest
    EVs: 124 Def / 252 SpA / 132 Spe

    Enough speed to outspeed Blissey. If you get a storm drain, Surf can 2HKO Blissey in the rain.
  18. GtM

    GtM

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    Oh lol, there was previously a specs set on here, but no-one thought it would ever be used... I'm awaiting the verdict of QC before I make any decisions, though.
  19. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

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    give it a try, this set is NO JOKE. I've never vouched for something so hard.

    This thing 3HKOs Nat consistently with Earth Power or Storm Drained Surf in the rain.. Yes, Surf 3HKOs Natty... wtf???
  20. yee

    yee
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    On the topic of the specs set, I do 54% on average to Ferrothorn with a storm drained EP, it is incredible. It is the best choice user i have used this gen, even more so than Gyarados and Azumarill in the rain. You 2HKO the annoying Rotom-W in the rain even if it hasnt given you a boost. As far as sturdy cannons go, this is BY FAR the most amazing I have used. If you don't believe me that is insanely good-

    Assuming Storm Drain Boost and rain (Surf)

    4 HP Rotom-W takes 88-104.1%
    4 HP Latios takes 68.5-81.1%
    Max HP Blissey takes 48.9-57.7%
    Max HP Reuniclus takes 121.9-143.9%

    Standard 252/76 spD Sassy tar in sand takes 83.7-99.5%

    Try it.
  21. Snunch

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    The thing about specs Gastrodon is that unless it grabs the storm drain boost, it's outclassed by other water types who offer more power, speed, and bulk. With the EV spread provided, Gastrodon will never live a +2 LO Thundurus focus blast, so it loses one of its most valuable assets. It's "good" in the sense that weather makes every water type or fire type ridiculously powerful with a choice item, but I cant think of a reason to use it over something like Empoleon, Starmie, or even Vaporeon or Milotic.
  22. yee

    yee
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    It is immune to both water and electric attacks! None of those can even dream of swapping in on electric attacks! That should be a good reason, as well as the fact that when you DO get the storm drain boost you are way more powerful than any of them. Ground STAB that can 2hko Ferrothorn is kinda cool too, other than relying on HP Fire or Fighting. Test it out.

    Btw I use 248 HP/252 spA/8 def, outrunning Blissey isnt worth the bulk.
  23. GtM

    GtM

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    Wow, lots of support for Specs Gastrodon here! I'm going to test this before I do anything major. Also, if you want Gastrodon to take that Focus Blast a Modest spread of 252SpA / 220 SpD / 36Spe is fine.

    Also, to outspeed standard Wishbliss, you only need to run 136 Speed. Just FYI.

    Also, what hidden power should GastroSpecs run? I'm vouching for Hp Fire since it OHKO's even the most specially defensive Ferrothorn outside of rain with a Storm Drain boost, but it's just as effective as Earth Power when inside and is thus redundant. What else does it need for coverage? Hp Electric hits Gyarados and Rotom-W but that's it.
  24. yee

    yee
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    Sleep Talk or HP Electric are the best options IMO, HP Fire doesnt hit Ferrothorn any harder than EP in rain (well, barely). You could use Recover or Scald too.
  25. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

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    Outrunning Blissey is worth all the bulk. With Storm Drain and Rain on your side, you cleanly 2HKO Blissey with Surf.

    As for grabbing a storm drain... its worth it most of the time to just SPAM Surf on a rain team. Nothing can take a Specs Storm Drained Surf in the rain.. it does over 40% to Nat

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