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Gen 4 FWG Team

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by Black_Knight, Jul 19, 2012.

  1. Black_Knight

    Black_Knight

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2010
    Messages:
    28
    I've had this team for some time now, but haven't really asked for any help with it. So I decided I would try now. Any help/advice is appreciated.

    TEAM BUILDING PROCESS:
    I wanted to use a Fire/Water/Grass Core. So I had to start with that. I immediately knew who I wanted for my Fire and Water Pokemon: Heatran and Gyarados
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    After that, I had to decide who I wanted for my Grass Pokemon. I tried Celebi, but it didn't work as well as I wanted. So I decided to give Breloom a try and he was perfect.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]


    After I got the core I needed to fill in the rest of the team. Rotom-H came to mind immediately as needed since he blocked Rapid Spin.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Next, I wanted something that could help me revenge kill. I tried Flygon out, but he just wasn't doing enough. I tried Scizor, and he was much better (he also gave me a Pursuit Trapper and something with Priority)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Finally, I needed a Starter. This was the most difficult slot to fill, but eventually Aerodactyl seemed to be enough for the team.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]


    So here is the end result:
    [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG]

    TEAM:

    [​IMG]

    1)Aerodactyl-Focus Sash
    @Jolly
    Pressure
    252 ATK/4 SpD/ 252 Spe
    Stealth Rock
    Rock Slide
    Earthquake
    Taunt

    Aero has proved to be the best starter out of the ones I have tried. He can set up Rocks, stop the opponent from setting up, and be used later on to help me decide what to do next or give me time to think about what to do next (or to lock some Pokemon with a Choice item)

    [​IMG]

    2)Rotom-H-Choice Specs
    @Timid
    Levitate
    252 SpA/ 4SpD/ 252 Spe
    Thunderbolt
    Shadow Ball
    Overheat
    Trick

    I've quite enjoyed this Rotom. With Choice Specs, he can do much more damage then the Choice Scarf version. The difference does show, also with the Choice Specs version, I don't increase the Speed of whatever I use Trick on. Another thing I have noticed is that I can use Overheat a little more freely, making the Specs a little better. Rotom-H, also has his synergy with Heatran and Gyarados and lets me open up a good bit of plays for them (they in return open up plays for him.)

    [​IMG]

    3)Heatran-Leftovers
    @Timid
    Flash Fire
    252 SpA/4SpD/252 Spe
    Substitute
    Fire Blast
    Earth Power
    Hidden Power (Ice)

    I love this set, it's worked amazingly. Substitute irritates opponents because they go to their counter to find out they need to hit me once before they can do damage (which in that time I can do damage and then switch afterwards.) Heatran pairs perfectly with my Gyarados and my Breloom (those 3 together having at least a resistance to every type in the game). I've taken advantage of each of the moves with Substitute: The enemy goes to Flygon? Take it down with HP Ice, They go to Heatran? Earth Power. Starmie? I normally just use Fire Blast and then swap out once my Substitute drops (or go to Rotom if I am worrying about Rapid Spin).

    [​IMG]

    4)Gyarados-Leftovers
    @Jolly
    Intimidate
    140 HP/176 ATK/48 Def/144 Spe
    Dragon Dance
    Waterfall
    Stone Edge
    Taunt

    The middle section of my FWG core (and an important piece in the entire team.) With 1 Dragon Dance, this Gyarados outspeeds Starmie and while I won't be able to take it out in one hit I can still deal heavy damage (I forget if I can take it out with SR or not). Now, I normally won't let Gyarados stay in on Starmie, but it CAN work. (Rotom-H and Breloom are my general Starmie counters, however). Gyarados' Taunt helps me with Stall teams or other Pokemon wanting to set up against me (also gives m a second Pokemon with Taunt, which is always nice.)

    [​IMG]

    5)Breloom-Toxic Orb
    @Jolly
    Poison Heal
    12 HP/252 ATK/244 Spe
    Substitute
    Focus Punch
    Seed Bomb
    Spore

    Toxic Heal Breloom has been a fantastic addition to the team. Once he becomes immune to other statuses, he can do greatly on Pokemon who are trying to spread them (also makes anyone who uses Toxic spikes groan in agony.) I decided to go with Jolly nature so I could have some extra speed (he hasn't missed the attack really with his tremendously powerful Focus Punch). Like I said above with Heatran, Heatran/Gyarados/Breloom give the team a resistance to everything.

    [​IMG]

    6)Scizor-Choice Band
    @Adamant
    Technician
    248 HP/252 ATK/8 Spe
    Bullet Punch
    Pursuit
    Superpower
    U-Turn

    Scizor has done pretty well on the team. He is a scout, he has a priority move, he is a pursuit trapper, he can act as a revenge killer, and he works perfectly with Heatran giving me a power boost. The dragon resistance is pretty appreciated also. Scizor is just, overall, a fantastic Pokemon for the final slot of this team.
  2. tobi10

    tobi10

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2009
    Messages:
    421
    You have a pretty cool team, but I noticed a weakness to offensive Grass-types like Celebi and Shaymin (You know, the ones with Earth Power) I reccomend giving your Heatran a Shuca Berry to be able to stop this threats (as otherwise they run over your team) Substitute is not really great without Leftovers so might wanna change it with either Explosion or a status move. That is all I can think about, good luck!
  3. Black_Knight

    Black_Knight

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2010
    Messages:
    28
    Thanks for the complement, much appreciated haha.

    I've used Shucca Berry Heatran in the past and while it was good, I found the protection of Protect a good thing. If Heatran has a Sub up, Shaymin needs to hit me with 2 Earth Powers to beat me (one to break my Sub and another to beat me) and remember my Fire Blast is Super Effective lol.
  4. tobi10

    tobi10

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2009
    Messages:
    421
    lol i know that! but imagine a scenario where Shaymin revenge kills your Rotom with Seed Flare, now you have to send a switch-in - if it has Earth Power it will kill Heatran (He will not have a Substitute all the time) and Seed Flare / Hidden Power Fire 2HKOs the rest of your team.

    I guess you could also try Bounce over Stone Edge to do better against Grass types and against Starmie.

    Sorry if I am not being very useful lol
  5. Black_Knight

    Black_Knight

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2010
    Messages:
    28
    lol no it's perfectly fine. I do understand what you're saying, I just feel that Substitute is too good on Heatran.

    I might look into Bounce, however. I've always been uneasy about using it (since it can let something set up on me) but we will see. This is, however, if I were to fight Shaymin or Celebi, who I haven't seen much or when I do I got a Sub up lol
  6. Smiles

    Smiles

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2010
    Messages:
    49
    I haven't played in a while so I'm not great at identifying threats, but there is one I noticed.

    Consider the following situation: Aerodactyl is dead (suicide lead) and Rotom-h has been weakened below, say, 50%.

    Specially based Infernape with Life Orb:
    - Fire Blast / Flamethrower
    - Close Combat
    - Grass Knot
    - Hidden Power [Ice] / [Electric]

    If Infernape gets in unharmed against a Pokemon without a substitute, for example, after one of its teammates dies, it can actually just run through your entire team with HP [Electric] (which isn't that uncommon, but it's used to OHKO Gyarados). It doesn't even need Fire Blast (Flamethrower), so 100% accuracy to run through your team is very scary.

    Since it's so likely that you'll have Stealth Rock, Infernape has 87.5% of its health left. Since you're not using sandstorm and Infernape usually isn't paired with sandstorm, let's say there's no weather.

    Scizor's Bullet Punch is the only thing left to outspeed Infernape, and it does 43% MAXIMUM. Best case scenario, Infernape has about 44% HP left. That gives it 5 turns to attack while Life Orb eats away at its HP.

    So if it gets the chance to OHKO weakened Rotom-h while Aerodactyl is gone, you lose all of your Pokemon. The only hope is a Fire Blast miss, which is impossible with Flamethrower, or no electric move, or a crit with Bullet Punch.

    Call this situational and somewhat rare (I know it is), but you shouldn't leave your team open to a non-setup sweep by 1 pokemon. The main reason I noticed this threat is because I love that Infernape set LOL.



    TL;DR? An Infernape set that can easily sweep your team is a threat. Sure, Gyarados can take care of most Infernape, but it's about time that Infernapes realized they had access to Hidden Power [Electric]. And seeing as it's your only Infernape counter (Heatran can use Flash Fire, but then just get KOed by Close Combat), you need another way to defeat it. Rotom-h can be a check, but isn't that great at taking hits from Infernape if you predict wrong. It is OHKOed if weakened beforehand, or 2HKOed simply by a wrong prediction.

    Also, offensive Starmie (which have Ice Beam) can sweep your team once Rotom-h and Scizor are weakened. This takes away Breloom as one of your checks.

    A solution is a Choice Scarf user. You can use Dugtrio with Choice Band instead, but that's a bit specifically geared towards revenge killing grounded pokemon.

    Keep in mind: all offensive teams should have a Choice Scarf user with ridiculously high speed, because I didn't even mention set up sweepers, which are even more dangerous (such as Lucario, Dragonite, Infernape again, etc.)

    I recommend a standard Choice Scarf set. Here are some options I think will have the most potential:

    Flygon: 100 base speed. Outspeeds all non-agility boosters, although Lucario's +2 Extremespeed could be problematic. It resists Stealth Rock, is immune to other entry hazards, immune to sandstorm, and pairs VERY well with Scizor. In fact, I had a team based on these 2 Pokemon. Flygon is generally very threatening, as it can also clean late game with 2 great STAB moves, with 120 and 100 base power and both have great coverage. U-Turn is part of what makes it work so great with Scizor. Additional scout.

    Starmie: 115 base speed, huge amount of speed. Can easily switch into Infernape, and can also cripple stall teams with Trick.

    Rotom-a: Not sure this would be as effective for this team, since it doesn't immediately deal with Infernape perfectly, but it can take care of Gyarados, Starmie, Dragonite, and Gengar among others. However, you're clearly enjoying the Specs version. The good thing is that you wouldn't have to switch a Pokemon out of your team.

    Lucario/Jirachi: Okay Choice Scarf Lucario is weird, but I used one on a really weird team once and it worked wonders. The element of surprise is what keeps Pokemon such as Dragonite and Gengar from switching out when they see Lucario. Jirachi typically outclasses Lucario as a Choice Scarfer, but lacks raw power without a good STAB like Close Combat. However, they both add a fire weakness to your team, which is not too much of a problem but can be if Gyarados is gone, as Heatran is usually weak to the coverage moves alongside Fire.

    I don't recommend slow scarfers like Tyranitar, as you don't seem to have a problem with ghost types. However, you can use Tyranitar to get rid of Starmie, although it needs to watch out for Hydro Pump. It could hinder your Gyarados and Breloom by bringing in a sandstorm.

    Shaymin or Celebi could work against Starmie very effectively, especially if it is lacking Ice Beam. Breloom is OHKOed by Starmie's Ice Beam, but other grass types can take a LO Ice Beam and OHKO in return.

    SORRY FOR THE LONG POST, BUT I'M BORN TO TYPE A LOT AND I HAVE A LOT TO SAY.
  7. Black_Knight

    Black_Knight

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2010
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    I can agree that Starmie is a little troublesome for the team, and that Infernape could be trouble as well. But if I were to replace a Pokemon, which one would I change?
  8. DestinyUnknown

    DestinyUnknown in other words...
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Hey, nice team, but it seems a bit weak to some special attackers like Celebi, Shaymin and Starmie. Since Aerodactyl looks like the most remplaceable member of your team, you could try using 4 attacks Snorlax instead (changing Heatran's set to the standard support/lead set with stealth rock / fire blast / earth power / explosion @ shucca berry). Another option could be using Scarf Flygon over (again) Aerodactyl, but using Flygon instead of snorlax means you will need more prediction.
  9. Black_Knight

    Black_Knight

    Joined:
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    I'll see, but I really like Heatran with Substitute and generally not in a lead role.
  10. Smiles

    Smiles

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2010
    Messages:
    49
    Here's what I'm thinking:

    1.
    Metagross in lead slot
    Choice Scarf Rotom-H or Flygon

    You can use this if you want to keep your current Heatran set.
    Metagross, as a suicide lead, can use Explosion, which is a plus over Aerodactyl. You could instead use a Choice Scarf Flygon instead of Rotom-h, as Flygon has wonderful synergy with Scizor and Metagross, handling each others' weaknesses. Metagross as a lead provides another fire-move lure for Heatran, however the 3 weaknesses to fire might not be so good. And if you meet an Infernape lead, then don't panic about your Metagross cause Gyarados walls it. But if you want to get rid of it, you could even use Occa Berry on Metagross.
    Flygon is immune to EQ like Rotom-H, but is also immune to Thunder Wave and sandstorm and resists Stealth Rock. That's pretty great.

    2.
    Machamp lead in lead slot
    Heatran (lead set) in another slot (Shuca Berry)
    Rotom-H with Choice Scarf

    If you like your Heatran set a lot, this is probably not for you, but I've used this combination effectively before.
    This basically gives you 2 leads. The idea is you can choose which one to lead with (if for some reason you think one isn't doing it right) but Machamp is recommended to lead. Then later, Heatran can set up SR and can still explode. As plus, Heatran's set is less predictable outside of the lead slot and it still has great attacking power and the ability to take out a defensive or troublesome pokemon by exploding. And if Machamp is on the team, Rotom-h should stay to help with its weaknesses.
    For example, Machamp struggles with Metagross and Jirachi leads, both of whom Heatran can handle well.
  11. Black_Knight

    Black_Knight

    Joined:
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    I've actually been playing with a Metagross lead a bit and it has been working kinda well actually. I'll keep testing and I'll post any changes.

    Also, I tested the suggested Snorlax set and it completely failed on the team, so right now my team is what is listed above.
  12. Smiles

    Smiles

    Joined:
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    I'd love to give you any advice, since I probably missed some things when I suggested Metagross and w/e.

    If you like Metagross as a lead, you can post the changed team and I'll be happy to rate it again.
  13. Black_Knight

    Black_Knight

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    Actually Metagross became a bit of a drawback. I am testing Heatran in the lead spot and trying out a Jolteon with Shaymin as my Grass type

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