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Gen 5: Double Dragon Danger

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Black_Knight, Jan 23, 2011.

  1. Black_Knight

    Black_Knight

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2010
    Messages:
    28
    I've been playing around with Gen 5 for awhile now though I kept changing to random things, I found a Double Dragon Team and was interested by it so I decided to try it for Gen 5. It started out shaky and it went under multiple changes but I have a team that has done pretty well now. I apologize for no pics right now, I keep trying but it doesn't want to post them idk why.

    Team Building Process:
    1-2)Latios and Ononokusu-First I wanted my two Dragons, I wanted a Special and Physical attacker so I had a balance. I decided on Latios for his goos resistences and Ground Immunity, and Ononokusu for his unique pure dragon typing.

    3-4)Scizor and Magnezone-Next I knew I needed Steel types for Dragon, Ice, Ghost, Dark Weakness my dragons have. Scizor makes a great partner to Latios able to come in on Gengar and some other things that may annoy Latios and chase them off; while Magnezone has been called Onono's perfect partner.

    5)Kojondo-I knew I needed a reliable starter but I wasn't sure who to use. I thought about it and eventually decided on Konjondo. His speed and effective swapping made him a good choice.

    6)Starmie-I knew I needed something incase SR, Spikes, or TS were set up. I decided on Starmie cuz she gives me another Fighting Resistance, since that type is becoming popular, it also gives me a third Ice res.


    Team:

    Kojondo-Focus Sash
    EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Akt/ 252 Spe
    Nature:Jolly
    Ability:Regeneration
    Fake Out
    Hi Jump Kick
    U-Turn
    Rock Slide

    I was a little worried since he didn't really give me any big resistences but Rock and Bug, but he has worked pretty well. Fake Out is a good move when he comes out as it breaks other Sashes and softens them up for HJK. Focus Sash works pretty well with his Ability letting him U-Turn out for a free heal. Generaly if I need to I will use him as a sacrifice to Revenge Kill but I can normally throw him in and he gets a few hits in and flees. he actualy has rarely fainted, unless I sacrifice him of course.

    Starmie-Leftovers
    EVs:4 HP/ 252 SpA/ 252 Spe
    Nature:Timid
    Ability:Natural Cure
    Surf
    Thunderbolt
    Ice Beam
    Rapid Spin

    Starmie has worked as a good Pokemon to spin away rocks, the VERY few I have seen. Generaly she will be used for attacking and i never used Revocer so I replaced it for Ice Beam for more attack option. With Starmie's high Speed and high SpA she has been good at eliminating some Pokemon, she is faster than Blaziken with 1 SB too which is pretty useful sometimes as I did see a few in my testing. Really though Starmie can be a sacrifice like Kojondo if needed.

    Magnezone-Leftovers
    EVs:40 HP/ 252 SpA/ 216 Spe
    Nature:Timid
    Ability:Magnet Pull
    Thunder Bolt
    Hidden Power (Fire)
    Thunder Wave
    Protect

    Magnezoen has been an interesting surprise to some opponents. Thunderbold and HP Fire let me remove Steels pretty reliably, Thunder Wave lets me Paralize anything I don't want being fast, and helps Onono set up, Protect is really a filler move that if it is used it used to help me scout the opponent's moves especially Garchomp since ScarfChomp is becoming more popular.

    Ononokusu-Leftovers
    EVs:4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spe
    Nature:Jolly
    Ability:Mold Breaker
    Dragon Dance
    Dragon Claw
    Earthquake
    Taunt

    My first Dragon! He has been pretty useful and has surprised people who have been expecing him to be Banded or Scarfd. Taunt has been a big help to the team, and to Onono's set up as it ruins the opponent's strategy. Dragon Dance gives him pretty good Speed and great Attack. Dragon Claw is used here inplace of Outrage because I don't like to be locked into a move or confused. Leftovers helps him survive cause after one DD he will have about half his HP left so letting him go down faster with LO wasn't something I liked. Mold Breaker helps him gain a little more coverage on his two moves but since some steels give him problems Magnezone would handle them.

    Scizor-Leftovers
    EVs:4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spe
    Nature:Adamant
    Ability:Technician
    Swords Dance
    Bullet Punch
    Bug Bite
    Brick Break

    Scizor has been a beast on this team! Blissy and Chansey run in fear of him since they can't Poison him letting him set up for his 700+ Atk score letting BP rip through most Pokemon. Bug Bite scores big STAB and can help Scizor's offense as I personaly like to manualy switch out as most things that can KO Scizor are faster than he is.

    Latios-Choice Specs
    EVs:4 HP/ 252 SpA/ 252 Spe
    Nature:Timid
    Ability:Levitate
    Draco Meteor
    Psycho Shock
    Surf
    Trick

    Latios has been a great Special Attacker and can tear holes into the opponents team. His great Speed and Psycho Shock have really dented a bunch of things. Blissey and Chansey go down hard from one PS, Draco Meteor is just a great attack smashing into things even when he's -4 SpA it works pretty well at denting things. Trick lets me cripple certain Pokemon who think they can counter Latios and with this they don't get a Speed Boost, which is generally why I don't like Tricking a Choice Scarf but Choise Specs won't do anything unless they are a mixed attacker or a Special attacker.
  2. Branduscus

    Branduscus

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Messages:
    25
    Changes in Bold
  3. Jaroda

    Jaroda

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,661
    @Branduscus a big HELL NO to Explosion on Magnezone. With the nerf and no attack EVs you're just wasting a perfectly good mon for nothing. Also, I don't know how you expect to KO the number one Steel being Ferrothorn/Nattorei without HP Fire. You're not a Steel killer without it and that's exactly why you're using him in the first place, to get rid of Steels that wall Haxorus/Latios. MAgnet Rise is acceptable over Protect however since pokemon that intended to counter you with EQ will be left with little recourse.

    Life Orb is a far better item for Kojondo. With Regeneration it adds up to basically nonexistent damage as long as you are smart about U-Turning and switching. Kojondo is quite fast so you should know which pokes are carrying obvious priority moves or are faster than you.

    Use Bug Bite on Scizor, it's one of his strongest moves. Likewise you could opt for the standard CB U-Turn set. Double U-Turn is quite effective.

    STAB Draco Meteor hits everything that Thunderbolt hits SE harder minus Gyarados. Replace it with HP Fire to get rid of said Nattorei if your Magnezone won't, or use Trick. Trick can outright eliminate an otherwise dangerous wall to your team.
  4. Black_Knight

    Black_Knight

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2010
    Messages:
    28
    @Jaroda: I was thinking about HP Fire on magnezone so he would eliminate certain steels easier, though he hasn't had that bad of a time taking them down with a STAB Thunderbolt.

    Life Orb may be a good item on Kojondo but that would mean if he does get hit by an unexpected attack he will almost certainly be KOd

    I was thinking of using the CB set on Scizor but I wasn't sure if that would be better compared to the SW set since SW gives him better attack without being locked into a move.

    I was thinking about Trick on Latios actually but I have never really found reason to use it, though I may try it to see what happens.
  5. Smith

    Smith is a 90's bitch
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,341
    grrrr I just typed up a massive rate but my token window had expired and as such I had to delete it, thus making me start from scratch. As such my comments will be much more concise, I do apologize.

    Anyways hello, I obviously got your message(s). As far as basic, marriland-type-charts style synergy you're doing fine but this metagame is really harsh for this team. Firstly, unless you've been living under a rock for the past month, weather is EVERYWHERE, especially rain and sandstorm which constitute over 3/4 over competitive teams- however, it is against these teams that you are absolutely defenseless. Doryuuzu, Landlos, Kingdra, Ludicolo, Kabutops, Manaphy- all of these cause you MAJOR problems, if not sweeping you dead cold. The other problem I see is with your Kojondo. I'm sure you're also aware that the ladder (and most tournament matches) feature obligatory team preview and mix-up, meaning that the idea of a dedicated "lead" Pokemon is antiquated because your opponent will always know your lead and try to counter it. This defeats the purpose of a lead Pokemon, to have good match-ups and thus start the game off with momentum. Thankfully I think I have a fix. Try running this over Kojondo, effectively knocking out two birds with one stone:

    [​IMG] @ Choice Band
    252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpDef
    Adamant (+Atk, - SpAtk)
    -Ice Shard
    -Wood Hammer
    -Seed Bomb
    -Earthquake

    Okay, a CB set may seem weird on a Pokemon with such average offensive stats, but this set is one of the best weather-plugger-uppers out there. By simply switching in, thanks to his ability Snow Warning, he has eliminated a huge aspect of these sweepers' potential to sweep you. Furthermore, even after switching in he has the ability to deal with them through some mechanism. Ice Shard is extremely useful for annoying Dragons and Landlos, whom can be hard to revenge without priority. Seed Bomb and Wood Hammer are both consistent Grass-stab, surprisingly useful in today's metagame- WH is better if the HP loss is no problem and you need the exta "oomph". Earthquake is curious, but it effectively catches many would-be Abomasnow counters on the switch, such as Metagross, Terakion, Heatran or Blaziken. Abomasnow is weak to stealth rock, and other entry hazards, but thankfully Starmie has excellent synergy with Abomasnow and can spin away these annoyances.

    Minour changes. Firstly, consider Substitute over Protect on Magnezone- if you can get up a Sub on Nattorei/Scizor/Skarmory, it will help with whatever they switch in next and allow you to get another hit in off his massive special attack stat. I'd also spring for HP fire > ice for reasons already mentioned. Secondly, Pursuit on a SD Scizor is, frankly, dumb. Why would you get damage on something switching out when you could use that opportunity to set up a SD? Try U turn in this slot or, if you don't like switching out and like more power, Bug Bite (boosted by Technician to 90 power). Lastly, Thunderbolt on latios is more or less useless- why not use Trick? This will help against stall (yes it still exists) as well as the abundant physical attackers in this metagame, and frees you up to switch more often should that become necessary.

    That's all I have, I hope this helps. Good Luck!
  6. Black_Knight

    Black_Knight

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2010
    Messages:
    28
    I've made some changes in bold. Abomasnow sounds interesting I am just wondering if that will hinder Latos' sweep since he will be getting hurt every turn and not heal. Onono I'm not to worried about though he will be losing his healing which may annoy me a bit but I may be able to get over that. I was happy to see you gave me a Physical replacement as I do like to generally keep a team of 3 Physical and 3 Special to not be stopped by a certain wall
  7. Smith

    Smith is a 90's bitch
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,341
    Just thought I'd clarify some points I think are important:

    1. Latios isn't really a "sweeper", he's more of a battering ram to create holes for your main sweeper (at leas tin my opinion). Moves like DM and such like will be ill-suited for long-term sweeping. So I'm not too concerned, especially with Starmie spinning away SR which would do more damage in the long run or the fact that SS is just as bad.

    2. Onono is so frail that it almost doesn't matter, I wouldn't worry too much since his bulk is so minimal that the difference is negligible.

    3. A common misconception is that balancing 3 physical with 3 special is necessarily "balanced", and thus is not true. IN fact, if anything it makes it easier for stall to wall you since none of your sweepers are overwhelming walls as eaily- hyper offense in DPPt relied on using 6 physical or sweeper sweepers with the idea of overwhelming sweepers. This doesn't have anything to do with the team, I just thought I'd clarify.
  8. Black_Knight

    Black_Knight

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2010
    Messages:
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    Ok I'll try Abomasnow out on the team and make changes if he works

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