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[Gen 5] Looking in Reverse! My Metagame Check-Up

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by AntiMetaGame, Jul 2, 2011.

  1. AntiMetaGame

    AntiMetaGame

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    306
    Helloooo Smogon! I finally made my best non weather team ever! So I checked in the metagame, and thought of going in reverse. By reverse I mean, attacking the cores to sweep. You must think I’m insane, since Rotom, rachi, and gliscor are everywhere in sand and happen to cover just about anything. Please note that my server has banned rain so don't bother mentioning it. So here was my look on the metagame:
    The common cores are:
    PLEASE READ THIS ITS IMPORTANT TO HOW MY TEAM WORKS
    Rotom – W / Rachi / Gliscor
    [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG]
    Ferrocent
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    With the random tran and SpD Ttar that happens to be everywhere nowadays.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Well, what happened was that I wanted to wreck the cores. 5th Gen is all about the overpowered shit going out and destroying. Well, by destroying the core, I can destroy teams and all. No overpowered sweepers that are broken, but walled by threats, just beating down on the defenses to get the job done. So what part of the core do I attack? Well, with Rotom / rachi / Gliscor around, I found Lum Berry Moxie Gyarados. I remember Kevin Garrett saying that Rotom was the weakest link, and being a fellow Rotom user myself, I agree completely. Only 128 HP EV’s? Way too weak for me. And status is always a bitch to Rotom. Poison him and he’s going to die soon, burn and he can’t wall as well. So beat down Rotom, and you can prey on rachi and Gliscor. Lum Berry lets you take a body slam and 2HKO with EQ, while Gliscor doesn’t even have the balls to come in. Now check this out:
    Gyarados’ common counters and checks
    Vaporeon
    Zapdos
    Ferrothorn
    Latios
    Latias
    Rotom - W
    Random scarf terrakion

    Of course I forgot some things, but this is the random gist of it. Well, after doing calcs. I learned that Bounce from a +1 Adamant Gyara easily does 86% minimum to a Latios, and Latias isn’t too far behind. Also,the guys in RED are almost nonexistent now. Zapdos’ walling abilities are outclassed and vappy gets sad when thundy comes in. Random scarf Terrakion is still random. So it was perfect, a great sweeper that could do well against the current metagame and still set up agains the common Gliscor and TTar that was everywhere. The Lum Berry was perfect for body slam rachi and wisp jellicents. An EQ from a +1 gyara could easily 2HKO. To help with Rotom, I put in Sheer Force Nidoking. Why? Because he happens to wreck all the cores I mentioned. Better yet, he can afford to run Modest since he outspeeds all the core pokes (yes he outspeeds Gliscor). Modest Nidoking also can 2HKO SpD rachi and Rotom - W with the appropriate move. To add to the awesomeness of Lum Berry Moxie, Gyara, I made a STABless sub Nido because ttar is the only core poke that walls him, and tran generally never switches in due to Earth Power. So that was, my idea of a core breaking duo. Sadly, if any of you actually read this entire thing, I had to scarp Gyara for 3 reasons. Bounce sucks at hitting, and Ferrothorn sadly beats Gyara. Gyara also wasn’t as powerful as I would like him to be either. Anyways, its on to the team.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Alright, so here’s some team building process. I wanted Lum Berry Moxie Gyara and Sub Modest LO Sheer Force Nidoking to break things. This was a great core for me.

    [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG]
    Next I needed hazards. Anything goes better with hazards and Gyara really appreciates it. Nidoking is already pretty powerful, but doesn’t mind them either. To sum it all up - anything goes better with spikes. Skarm was added to wall shit and set up spikes. A great 4th Gen wall, I’ve used both Skarm and Gliscor, and while Gliscor has the resistances and recovery, I need the hazards and phasing. Besides, Skarm has instant recovery and only really only has problems with Conkeldurr.

    [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Obviously I still need a Draco Meteor sponger. SpD Rachi. He’s a common set nowadays, and does well by spreading paralysis and wishing up to help teammates. He contributes as a great special wall that works well with skarm. As a plus, he beats non sub charge beam magnezone, but let’s be real, who even uses charge beam let alone magnezone extensively these days?


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Alrighty, so now I need a water attacker to take the fire attacks. Now I know what you will all say: Rotom – W. If you read my paragraph, you’ll know I wanted something different. Since Skarm can avoid eq, I put in a set my friend told me – Haze Milotic. To be honest, this is the best replacement I’ve ever used. I love it to death, its awesome and works very well in my playing style and believe it or not, she can outstall any SpD Rachi. Trust me, its awesome when it happens.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG]
    Well, now my core is good, except for Rotom – W who shuffles me around. So I easily found a new poke that I never used before. Latias is an awesome boss at what she does, I’m surprised she’s not used over Latios that much. Latias also patches up weaknesses to my team, her bulky is as lovely as Milotic’s. I've also been able to sweep pretty well with her too, she can outstall a Specs Latios if at full HP.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG]
    Well, sadly, Gyara couldn't do what I imagined he could do, Nidoking on the other hand was fucking amazing. So I replaced gyra with a Thundurus. It may seem weird with 5 special attackers, but trust me, a +2 Thundy with miss blast does 60.23% - 70.74% to Evolite Chansey and 71.43% - 84.03% to Bliss. All I need is latias to lure them in, roar them out, and sweep.


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG]
    Whether you noticed or not, I did not have stealth rock. I've tried using Omastar, Forry, and Terrakion to change the team up, but it never worked well for me. So eventually I tried using SR and spikes on skarm, but it was incredibly hard since I ran Brave Bird (for Excadrill and Conkeldurr), so I had no phazing move. Awkward if you ask me lol. So I looked at the team and decided to put SR on rachi over body slam. Looking back, no Latios is dumb enough to stay in on me. However, I sadly didn't have too many options.

    Looking in Reverse!

    Changes in GREEN
    [​IMG]
    Untouchable (Skarmory) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Spe
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Spikes
    - Brave Bird
    - Roost
    - Whirlwind
    Do not be fooled by Skarm's lead spot in this team, 0 games out of 10 do I lead with him. Its more of him just being the badass wall we know him as. I personally like Taunt better, it makes running speed better against opposing skarms. However, I need to pop balloons on Excadrill, and threaten Conkeldurr. Regardless, I run speed to whirlwind first. I play skarm like a kamikaze against bulky waters. Got a jellicent that'll burn me? Not a problem scald does like 37% + the 12% on burn which goes for 49%. Obviously a bit reckless in your eyes, but I love it since I can spike up against them with the shaky damage calculator and easily roost and whirlwind them away. Generally though, I prefer them Toxiced by Milotic so that they will recover in conjunction with scald / wisping. Overall, I like him better than Gliscor. Gliscor lacks the "I'm a wall so don't bother trying to kill me" feeling.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Tani Oh (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 236 HP / 228 SDef / 44 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Iron Head
    - Stealth Rock
    - Wish
    - Body Slam
    Like the Tani Oh, rachi has a ton of surprises up his... sleeve? Sadly, this set is not one of those surprises. Regardless, rachi's ability to wall the common special attackers this gen is amazing. The only thing in his way is Heatran, whom is easily taken care of by Milotic. I realized that most Latios players are too smart to let their prized Specs Latios stay in and take a Body Slam, so I scratched it for Iron Head - a good way to kill those SpD ttars. Set is pretty self explanatory, but I will say that it is a bit hard to get rocks up because I kill ttars first and generally only come in on special attackers for rachi. After thinking about it, I figured paralyzation + Iron Head = 40% chance to move means that its like a pseudo protect. Currently testing it, and it takes care of my magnezone weakness!

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    The Union (Nidoking) (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Thunderbolt
    - Flamethrower
    - Ice Beam
    Gimmick set #1 here. I love it to death. If you read my paragraph (I swear it took a long time, please read it) you'll notice that I am first STABless. That is because I use Nidoking to break down cores. His godly coverage truely is a godsend. With it, he breaks down the common cores, and many other pokes just by being there. The STABless part leaves only tran and spD ttar that wall me. Both are taken care of by Milotic. Now the second thing you'll realize is that Nidoking is Modest. That's right, MODEST. Before you tell me to go Timid, I'll tell you this: Nidoking outright outspeeds:
    128 Spe Rotom
    40 Spe rachi
    72(?) Spe Gliscor
    SpD Ttar
    Jellicent and Ferrothorn can go away.
    That's right. The 5 most common core pokes (sorry Jellicent) are outsped by Nidoking. Rotom is 2HKOd, rachi is 2HKOd, and for whatever reason, Gliscor thinks he can outspeed. That allows me to OHKO Gliscor. Now another thing - Substitute. To be honest, I don't use it that much. Its because Nidoking's surprise factor is a bit too much in OU. Only the skilled players and UU players know what he can do, so anyone who doesn't know Nidoking will stay in which ruins my free sub plans. I'm considering to scratch it. To sum it all up, behind a sub, I can potentially kill a SpD Rachi or Rotom which severely damages the opponent's core. Gliscors that think they can outspeed are OHKOd by Ice Beam (its really weird) they always think they can outspeed.

    [​IMG]
    Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Nasty Plot
    - Thunderbolt
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    Standard NP Thundurus. Back before I added him, I had trouble with speedy sweepers. This guy solves that problem a bit I guess. If you saw my calc earlier, a +2 Focus Blast can really whittle down or even kill those Chansey's and Bliss walls. I might consider a Lum Berry to NP twice in their face to OHKO with some spikes support. A major team player, though I might change him for an LO Starmie or something

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Big Shiee (Milotic) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Marvel Scale
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Toxic
    - Recover
    - Haze
    3 words. Oh. My. God. Milotic is a monster! A big ass boat-on-land-walling-motherfucker! Never will I go back to Rotom without trying this amazing babe right here. Though I have Latias, Milotic is an excellent lure for bliss, chansey, and opposing bulky waters. I can't begin to recount how many times I've lured in the bulky waters only to toxic them, and have skarm set up on the bliss and chanseys. The best part is Marvel Scale. Switch Milo in on a Jellicent's Scald or wisp or Rotom's wisp (kinda ballzy, but works), OR rachi's Body Slam. The icing on the cake really. When burned by Jellicent. Milo proceeds to beat it 1 on 1 with Toxic support. Its even better when you get them on the switch too. Rotom switch-ins get Toxiced to the face too and then Milo runs to Latias. Rachi? Don't even start. To me, I prefer burn over paralysis, but it works out too. With Marvel Scale activated, the rachi has nothing to do except bank on the haxy Iron Head, or Wish pass. Either way, if rachi doesn't switch out, he's getting burned. And trust me, a burned rachi against a Marvel Scale Milotic is always my favorite match-up to win. Milo also has amazing synergy with Skarm against Gliscor: she switches to take the taunt from Gliscor and proceeds to threaten with Scald, a great double switch option I've learned of. Haze is the sprinkles on the cake. With it, she can outstall Gyara, Moth, nite, and more while toxic stalling or burn stalling them! Milotic is a great member of my team, please think twice before telling me to switch her, she's really my new favorite bulky water.

    [​IMG]
    Ginger (Latias) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Recover
    - Calm Mind
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Roar
    Oh yes, another one of my new favorite pokes to use. She's frikin' awesome. I'm glad I got a chance to use her and Milo on this team, they opened my eyes a lot! Anyway, this is a Latias set. I'm not sure if its standard or not. I made her win Calm Mind wars, phaze and win the war, and abuse Spikes like always. So far, the only thing that walls me is Ferrothorn and Scizor, which is taken care of by Nidoking and lets Skarm set up as well. She is also my Rotom - W check, and a good one at that. She generally gets burned a bit too much for my liking so I might run Refresh, but hey, its better than SpD rachi paralyzing me. I find it best to use this sexy lady late game, or mid game when spikes support go up. She works wonders I tell you, Way better than a specs Latios to me. Lastly, I always found Latias to be pursuit bait. It sucks a bit, but I guess it helps me in setting up with some poke.

    Weaknesses

    Conkeldurr [​IMG]
    Not a weakness in my eyes really, but skarm has to be healthy to wind him away. The real threat in my eyes though is a Guts activation via Milo which will rape my team pretty badly. Otherwise its Nidoking + Latias to take him out.

    Starmie [​IMG]
    Another non threat in my eyes except when she is controlling the field otherwise, only Thundy and Milo fear her (Nido has sub and Latias has +1 in SpD). To add to the problem, rachi does not have Body Slam to force her out. Rachi can wall though and force them out by draining Hydro Pump pp.

    Terrakion [​IMG]
    A real threat I guess. Only skarm can take a +2 CC, otherwise Skarm has a field day by walling Rock Polish sets. Milo also walls Rock Polish sets. He doesn't get much room to set up though, and I've taken them pretty easily recently.

    Magnezone [​IMG]No longer a problem!
    With 2 steels and a team that likes its hazards, its obviously a threat. What I generally do is send in Skarm or something and double switch to Nidoking. The sad part is this though - since rachi does nto have Body Slam, he can no longer out stall Magnezone. Sub Charge beam sets are blown away by skarm though.
    Things that I'm looking for answers too.

    Currently I generally never get a chance to use Nidoking and Thundurus with the flow of my team. They both are really frail and never really get a chance for action. A potential replacement for Thundy or Nidoking is what I'm looking for.

    A Stealth Rock user.

    Though I mentioned Rain is banned in my server, I handle it pretty well since I main it (in Smogon servers) though Rotom - W in the rain is annoying. Please try not to fix that until the other answers are answered please.

    I'm not looking for a spin blocker unless you really want to recommend one.

    Thank you for reading my team! I'm sorry if you my check-up and was disapointed that I eventually saced Gyara. Its currently my best one, and I hope that you enjoyed the read. for now, peace out! I'll be back soon.
  2. Nubagator

    Nubagator

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    168
    Wow I found this to be a really fun read, and a nice team! On Jirachi I really recommend replacing Protect for body slam getting Para on things is a huge part of what he does. Even if you think it's a bad idea I implore you to test it. Might I suggest Deoxeys S over thunderus? Offensive life orb Deo-S is a major asset late game, and can easily clean up with hazards in play, he manages to outspeed just about every threat, even most scarfers. You could run a set using t-bolt, ice beam, fire punch, and superpower to continue your core breaking theme. or Slap Psycho boost on there if you feel Conk and Terrakion are big threats.
  3. AntiMetaGame

    AntiMetaGame

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    306
    Thanks for the rate! I'm glad you enjoyed my check-up, it wasn't the best writing every, but I'm glad it worked for you. I can try Deoxys-S. To be honest, I find him weak, but I do know he's great at sweeping with spikes. I am a fan of Body Slam on rachi, its just that I need room for rocks, and can't find any. I generally do use Body Slam, but I don't have a way to get it on rachi without losing rocks.
  4. AntiMetaGame

    AntiMetaGame

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
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    306
  5. HiddenPowerNormal

    HiddenPowerNormal

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2011
    Messages:
    17
    Nice team bro, I want to test it myself :D Only problem is you lack a scarfer. I would use scarf Thundurus, it works wonders, it's so unexpected. I use it all the time, it's a great revenge killer. Also if your looking to scrap Nidoking use a physical or mixed sweeper like Landorus with sub + HP Ice or maybe Starmie because it gets nearly the same coverage. I hope that helps
  6. AntiMetaGame

    AntiMetaGame

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
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    Hey, thanks for the rate! Generally, I try to haze stat boosters in speed. The DD dancers are all hazed and burned by Milotic. I can totally try Landorus, I feel Starmie can't get enough show time with Ferro and SpD rachi (can't 2HKO with Hydro, personal experiences). He's a decent surprise and can totally rock over opposing sand teams. For the scarf thundy idea, I'll think about it, he's just there for late game sweeps and if nido hasen't killed him, focus blast will which stops my tbolt everything idea.
  7. AntiMetaGame

    AntiMetaGame

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    306
    After hearing only good things so far about this team, I'll bump it up again. I need advice please!
  8. Aeromence

    Aeromence

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2011
    Messages:
    456
    how about you replace protect for SR so you can keep a paralysis move on Jirachi? protect can scout and all, but it isn't vital. Also, try substitute over roar on latias, it allows her to set up on walls, and even blissey! good team though
  9. AntiMetaGame

    AntiMetaGame

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    306
    Thanks for the rate! Replacing Protect is a nice idea, but then my Starmie weakness skyrockets. I can try it, though that mentioned weakness and losing the ability to scott choiced mons hurts a bit.
  10. AntiMetaGame

    AntiMetaGame

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    I figured since I'd rather paralyze something, I'll try Body Slam instead. Its working well pretty far, and Nido benefits from it well.

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