Gen 7 Ability Changes

[Someoneelse]

Please read through the discussion of Question 3 in State of the Game to get some background.

Four major abilities were buffed or nerfed in-game, and subsequently in ASB, with the change from Gen 6 to Gen 7. Parental Bond's BAP boost was decreased from 1.5x to 1.25x, Gale Wings only works when the user is at full health, Prankster-boosted status moves have no effect on Dark-types, and Weak Armour boosts Speed by two stages rather than one.

Questions to continue discussion:

• Should the energy cost increase for Parental Bond be kept, decreased, or removed entirely?
  
• Should Gale Wings be kept the same as in Gen 6?
• Should Prankster become a Toggle ability, or should it be kept as-is? Does the nerf make the metagame more balanced? Does it severely limit the viability of some popular Pokemon?
• Will anything become broken with the Weak Armour's buff?

I'll try to track discussion in the OP. Fire away!

 

[deadfox081]

I'll summarise my previous thoughts quite briefly.

- Parental Bond EN cost should definitely be decreased. I'd recommend a council vote between no extra energy and +1
- Gale Wings to remain as is, else it be a fundamental change of how the ability operates.
- Prankster to become Toggle. Toggle abilities to date are almost all a case of "I mostly want this effect but on the odd occasion I don't" (see: Sheer Force, Protean). The changed Prankster fits this mould.
- Leave Weak Armour alone.

 

[Vanillish Wafer]

I'm not very experienced, but from what I've seen I've formed opinions on these things.

-Parental Bond's extra EN cost seems a bit much. I feel like decreasing it is a good idea.
-Priority is much less "effective" in ASB, for lack of a better word. I think the Gale Wings nerf was good for the standard competitive scene, but ASB isn't as focused on wincons and sweeping. Not only that, a Pokemon in ASB won't start at full HP for longer than 2 actions at most. My final reason in is that Talonflame is pretty bad in ASB, with mediocre stats and a 4x Rock weakness the only thing giving it any purpose is Gale Wings.
-I just had a Sableye vs Sableye battle. We both had Prankster, and as a result neither of us could really do anything. The battle turned into Faint Attack and Chill. Prankster is now more detrimental than it is helpful, as Prankster Pokemon in ASB tend to rely on their status moves rather than raw power. Toggle definitely seems like the best thing to do here.
-Weak Armour is now much better in standard competitive, but in ASB it remains "pretty helpful". I don't see any breaking potential.

 

[Dogfish44]

Parental Bond: Do we think that double effect (chance) and *1.25 BAP is worth an EN increase on an ability. Like, that's the question. Serene Grace, Simple, and things like Blaze etc. all don't call for EN increases, but do we think it's justified when it's combined into one blob?

Gale Wings: Keep it the same until Dark/Dragon isn't mauled by Fairy. As they say, shit happens, even to our favourite mons.

Prankster: As is for now. Other abilities with drawbacks and positives such as Technician and Rivalry are Passive, I've yet to see confirmation that Prankster shouldn't be on that boat.

Weak Armour: Most mons disable it, Mandibuzz after first hit goes 80 --> 200 Speed rather than 80 --> 140. That's at the point where the only real difference is how hard Gyro Ball hits you.

 

[smashlloyd20]

Okay this has been sitting idle for 20 days. Seems like people have said their pieces. We're entering another big wave of policy discussion now, so I'd like to get this out of the way.

Parental Bond: Petition to move to voting between keep the same, +1 EN, no additional EN cost.

Gale Wings: Petition to move to voting between keep change and revert.

Prankster: Petition to move to voting between Toggle and Passive.

Weak Armor: Petition to move to voting between keep as is and nerf (specify in vote).

Let's move along here :>

 

[Gale Wing Srock]

I have a point to make about Normalizing Z-moves and Normalizing Gale Wings.

Regardless of how bad Talonflame is, if we are fine with nerfing the ability as per in game. Then why can't the same sense be applied to Z-Moves?

Why are we biased wrt items? Is it because we want certain items to be buffed, but we don't care about a Bird that is 4x weak and is not viable competitively?

 

[Someoneelse]

I have a point to make about Normalizing Z-moves and Normalizing Gale Wings.

Regardless of how bad Talonflame is, if we are fine with nerfing the ability as per in game. Then why can't the same sense be applied to Z-Moves?

Why are we biased wrt items? Is it because we want certain items to be buffed, but we don't care about a Bird that is 4x weak and is not viable competitively?

Gale Wings mechanically works the same as in-game (currently the same as Gen 6, proposedly the same as Gen 7), boosting the priority of Flying-type moves, now for a short period of time. The same can't be said about Z-Crystals. Designed to be a "moves of great power", it can't be said that they stay true to their in-game uses with the same damage increase as other items can get in a round. Currently, we're not nerfing Z-Moves as per in-game since they never had an in-game nerf to mimic. We're working to rebalance them for our metagame in order to fulfil their designed intentions.

Yes, it is different for items and for Pokemon in my mind. For one, there is a tangible end to buffing Z-Crystals, namely when they are buffed. On the other hand, where do you stop after buffing Gale Wings? What about Stantler, it's not viable competitively? I don't think anyone has a Vileplume, how can we make everyone want one? Can we make Mega Kangaskhan overpowered again? Plus, situational items are much more viable to balance fairly than situational Pokemon are, with more significant results. Even if Gale Wings wasn't nerfed, I doubt it would get much usage, since bringing a situational Pokemon has far more opportunity cost than using a situational item. This is getting off topic, so just read the first paragraph again.