Gen IV & Beyond Remakes - Is There A Demand?

Yeah the potential to mess up the legendarys is quite high sadly. Mega evolution is just silly to the story IMO, I hope they work really well to craft a sensible explanation to (if this happens which it likely will) why there is now mega evolution in the region.

Excuse me, I must go be sick now I've been thinking about mega evolution ruining my belloved Sinnoh.

Bah humbug.

At least bring back Shuckle's berry juice.
 

Pikachu315111

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Yeah the potential to mess up the legendarys is quite high sadly. Mega evolution is just silly to the story IMO, I hope they work really well to craft a sensible explanation to (if this happens which it likely will) why there is now mega evolution in the region.

Excuse me, I must go be sick now I've been thinking about mega evolution ruining my belloved Sinnoh.

Bah humbug.

At least bring back Shuckle's berry juice.
They'll explain like they explained it with Hoenn, we're now on an alternate timeline. Since XY we've shifted over to a new timeline where Mega Evolutions is a common thing throughout all regions, confirmed by ORAS's Delta Episode.
 
They'll explain like they explained it with Hoenn, we're now on an alternate timeline. Since XY we've shifted over to a new timeline where Mega Evolutions is a common thing throughout all regions, confirmed by ORAS's Delta Episode.
I've been trying to figure this out (skipped X and Y) for a while now, glad someone could confirm it. Alternate timeline hey? Wow. That's cheap, really cheap. What about the TV series, do they now include megas?
This explains the "travelled across space and time to reach you" thingy then, hmm, interesting.
 
I've always liked the idea that they could push 3D even further on console games by actually being able to move your Pokemon, and evade attacks while aiming your own counterattacks. Obviously, the ones with 100% accuracy would hit automatically, 99.9% of the time, while the lesser accuracy moves would need more aiming, and be easier to evade. This might be too much for a handheld, but for a console, who knows?
 
I've been trying to figure this out (skipped X and Y) for a while now, glad someone could confirm it. Alternate timeline hey? Wow. That's cheap, really cheap. What about the TV series, do they now include megas?
This explains the "travelled across space and time to reach you" thingy then, hmm, interesting.
The alternate timelines thing had existed since the Distortion world in Platinum, B/W aeseticss and Entralink...

Interstly you cna use the timeline theory to canonize EVERYTHING! Indivuual playthoughs of a game? canon. Anime? canon. Pokemon Special? Canon. Fanfics? canon. Nuzlocke comics? canon. Twitch Plays Pokemon? Canon. Creepypasta like Pokemon Black and Lost Silver? maybe
 

Pikachu315111

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What about the TV series, do they now include megas?
The anime does now include Mega Evolutions but for the most part they're keeping it low key. They've had a block of episodes about it during the time around it was time to battle Korrina, but after that not much. At least in the main anime.
They made a side series about a trainer with a Mega Charizard X who's goal is to battle and defeat all the other Mega Evolutions. The 2nd special in that "series" involved the protagonists going to Hoenn where they encounter Mega Rayquaza and I think the third special will be about Primal Groudon and Kyogre.

I've always liked the idea that they could push 3D even further on console games by actually being able to move your Pokemon, and evade attacks while aiming your own counterattacks. Obviously, the ones with 100% accuracy would hit automatically, 99.9% of the time, while the lesser accuracy moves would need more aiming, and be easier to evade. This might be too much for a handheld, but for a console, who knows?
Well they sort of did this in the PokePark series of games. However in those games it was just Pikachu in the first and Pikachu + Unova Starters in the second game. So they sort of experimented with it, but they'll need to really flesh it out.
Anyway, I'd rather they focus on another Colosseum game. They left some loose story ends they could easily build a sequel off of.
 
I thought the 3D graphics were horrible when I first played XY, but they've grown on me. I'm definitely still sympathetic to the pro-2D view though. I think they did a much better job with the graphics in ORAS than in XY, whose I thought were legitimately very bad. They need to improve the individual sprites significantly still, IMO, but the smoothness of ORAS is encouraging (in terms of the movement too).

I've always liked the idea that they could push 3D even further on console games by actually being able to move your Pokemon, and evade attacks while aiming your own counterattacks. Obviously, the ones with 100% accuracy would hit automatically, 99.9% of the time, while the lesser accuracy moves would need more aiming, and be easier to evade. This might be too much for a handheld, but for a console, who knows?
Wow, no.
 
I'm in a huge minority here in that I hated gen 4. I think it's because most people here started with those games and feel nostalgic for them, but I started in gen 1, so I don't have any particular inclination for 4 (I'm actually not nostalgic for 1 either; my favorite gen is 5.) I feel like at that point in the series GameFreak was letting things get stale, and it took conscious efforts in gen 5 and 6 to shake things up to breathe some new life into things. I think gen 4 would be best off just not getting remade; at least not until they transition into a new generation console and DS games become horribly outdated.
 
I've always liked the idea that they could push 3D even further on console games by actually being able to move your Pokemon, and evade attacks while aiming your own counterattacks. Obviously, the ones with 100% accuracy would hit automatically, 99.9% of the time, while the lesser accuracy moves would need more aiming, and be easier to evade. This might be too much for a handheld, but for a console, who knows?
Maybe as a spin-off game, but this just runs right against the accessibility and simplicity that has made Pokemon so popular. As soon as main-series Pokemon starts involving actual twitch skills in the battles I'm out, because as far I'm concerned at that point it wouldn't be Pokemon any more. Also good luck to the Pokemon Showdown encoders trying to script that kind of behaviour...

Anyway, your request is sort of being answered by Pokken Tournament.
 
Maybe as a spin-off game, but this just runs right against the accessibility and simplicity that has made Pokemon so popular. As soon as main-series Pokemon starts involving actual twitch skills in the battles I'm out, because as far I'm concerned at that point it wouldn't be Pokemon any more. Also good luck to the Pokemon Showdown encoders trying to script that kind of behaviour...

Anyway, your request is sort of being answered by Pokken Tournament.
I actually agree. The basic gameplay of 6 Pokémon, four moves each, and turn-based combat is fine and doesn't need to be fixed.
 
I didn't mean that they should change the basic game mechanics for the handheld series.

I meant if they were going to make any more games like Stadium or Colosseum, they could go more in that direction.
 
I had a think on this and I feel that now that they have released all non-event Legendaries in Gen 6 that we won't see another remake for a good long while.
They have a few unreleased Hidden Abilities to go for the Gen 2 and 5 starters and a few event pokemon to release (Mew, Manaphy, Meloetta and Genesect) to ensure that everything is available with a Pentagon and then they're "done" with Gen 1-5 in my opinion.

Personally the ONLY reason to remake Gen4 games for me is to bring back Cynthia as a kick-ass champion, but that would be it.
 

Pikachu315111

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I had a think on this and I feel that now that they have released all non-event Legendaries in Gen 6 that we won't see another remake for a good long while.
They have a few unreleased Hidden Abilities to go for the Gen 2 and 5 starters and a few event pokemon to release (Mew, Manaphy, Meloetta and Genesect) to ensure that everything is available with a Pentagon and then they're "done" with Gen 1-5 in my opinion.

Personally the ONLY reason to remake Gen4 games for me is to bring back Cynthia as a kick-ass champion, but that would be it.
Well if I remember at the time of Gen IV there was no need for a Gen II remake as all Pokemon were available and could be used (okay, true you needed to have the Colosseum games in order to complete your collection but it was still possible). However they then made Heart Gold and Soul Silver pretty much because they wanted to update the Gen II story with the then recently new mechanics.

I don't think the issue with remakes is whether all the Pokemon are available or not but rather if Game Freak feels like they can update the region as they did with the Gen III games.
 
Well if I remember at the time of Gen IV there was no need for a Gen II remake as all Pokemon were available and could be used (okay, true you needed to have the Colosseum games in order to complete your collection but it was still possible). However they then made Heart Gold and Soul Silver pretty much because they wanted to update the Gen II story with the then recently new mechanics.

I don't think the issue with remakes is whether all the Pokemon are available or not but rather if Game Freak feels like they can update the region as they did with the Gen III games.
Well, you needed to migrate Pokemon to the gen 4 games in order to complete the national dex, which got harder once the DS family of handhelds stopped having that GBA slot. And the gen 2 games generally not working anymore due to dying internal batteries.
 
Well if I remember at the time of Gen IV there was no need for a Gen II remake as all Pokemon were available and could be used (okay, true you needed to have the Colosseum games in order to complete your collection but it was still possible). However they then made Heart Gold and Soul Silver pretty much because they wanted to update the Gen II story with the then recently new mechanics.

I don't think the issue with remakes is whether all the Pokemon are available or not but rather if Game Freak feels like they can update the region as they did with the Gen III games.
Having to go to a non-handheld in order to get a Jirachi/Celebi is not exactly what I'd describe as "available". With Gen 6 if they make the other Event mons available (I left out Arceus in the short list above) by the time the Generation has run it's course it will mean that everyone will have the potential to get their hands on every pokemon in the same generation using only their 3DS (current generation of handhelds) which is I think a first.
 
You guys are forgetting the most important motivator: money.

Gen IV remakes would have a huge demand, so they will remake it whether you have access to all the Pokemon or not.

Personally I feel like the only remake I wouldn't buy is Unova. Disliked gen V greatly.
 
Well, if they do remake Gen 5, I hope they remake it like B2/W2, seeing as how I didn't get them, because I hadn't finished my White version at the time. I wasn't really playing Pokemon all that much, interest was waning, and I really was only getting the games out of tradition.

Only after finding out way later how much new content that I missed did I regret not getting one of them (that Pokemon Battle Studio thing sounded really interesting). That was the only time that I didn't get a "third" version.

I don't have the time or money to get a B2 or W2 now, and I'm dedicated to my AS version for the moment, so I just don't see it worthwhile to go with a version that is now outdated. If I do, I'll just fall behind in my progress in my AS version, where I can be breeding and filling my 'Dex.

At the very least, if they remake B/W, maybe I'll finally be able to get my hands on a Multiscale Lugia or Regenerator Ho-Oh.
 

Codraroll

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The aspect of money should not be forgotten, but neither should this simple fact: They only make one main series Pokémon game every year, tops. One every 18 months (with longer gaps between generations) was the norm for a while, but since BW2 things have sped up quite a bit. Time will tell if the new schedule will stay or not.

That means that GameFreak get one annual money boost into their coffers. Okay, the income will be spread out a little, but generally we're talking about one big revenue-collecting sales item per year or longer. Spin-off games certainly bring in some money too, but the big figures are all connected to the main series games. Since the differences between paired versions are minuscule, they should be seen as one game rather than two. Sorry to say.

This rather long period between games means that GameFreak need to make each game as sale-worthy as possible. They have to make the game they predict will sell the best. Otherwise, potential is lost, sales don't go well, and less money comes in to pay the bills. Cue a one-year waiting period before the next big seller can be attempted. Yes, every Pokémon game would probably sell like hotcakes, but it shouldn't be overlooked that some games would sell better than others, and it is in GameFreak's best interest to make the best sellers rather than sticking to a pattern.

To get the best shot at earning their money with that one annual game, they will usually consider several options for what that game looks like. Will it be a remake? A sequel? An entirely new generation? Different games have slightly different target groups, different implications for marketing (which the Anime must be seen as a part of, like it or not), and different projected sales numbers. Remakes will cater to the fans who played the original games many years ago. Entirely new generations means heavy marketing to capture those who have never played a Pokémon game before. Sequels à la BW2 are mostly targetted towards those who bought the games the sequels were based on, in the vein of "If you liked the previous game, check out these new upgrades!" And so on and so forth. The decisions are mostly taken a while in advance, and I expect each generation to be planned out before the middle of the previous one. In other words, what games are going to be made for Gen. VII are probably scheduled already, complete with approximate release dates.

Anyway, this means that a remake is only one of the options to be considered. As I said above, a major target group for those will be players who played and enjoyed the original games, and who still are of the age with plenty of time for Pokémon playing (pre-college or pre-marriage for most people, I guess. Smogon has exceptions all over, but probably doesn't represent an average of the gamer population). I mean, the people who played the original Red and Blue are in their late twenties now, and selling them Kanto remakes again probably wouldn't work that well. Rather, the current target group for Pokémon mostly consists of people who were introduced to the series by RSE or later.

This means that in a few years' time, the "nostalgia crowd" for D/P will largely outgrow the series. Of course, the hard core (like us) will remain, but in the general mix of Pokémon's target group, they will probably be a minority. In other words, there are only a few more years that D/P remakes would be feasible to sell, before the alternatives would be a better choice for the relevant "game release slots" (given the short time span of Gen. V, this will probably arise as a problem if or when remakes of those games will be considered).

So GameFreak might find that while a D/P remake would be projected to haul in big money, maybe a sequel or new generation of sorts would haul in even more. If so, they would be better off dropping the remake, and use their annual main series release on the better option.

Hardware should also be taken into consideration. When the series migrates to a new console, a large percentage of players will probably abandon it. It's easier to buy the games if you already have taken the cost of the console, so when the new game requires you to shell out bucks by the hundreds if you want to play, many decide to save the money and not buy the games. Remember the "outrage" when it was revealed that XY would be 3DS exclusive?
Few people buy a 3DS only to play Pokémon, but many people buy Pokémon because they have a 3DS already. Instead of catering to the former crowd, GameFreak might as well roll out a new generation, targetting newcomers who are willing to shell out for the new console/already have it for other reasons. GameFreak doesn't start a console generation (and by extent, a Pokémon generation) with a remake or a sequel, they cut straight for an entirely new game. This "forces" a slot that might otherwise have been the prime time for releasing a remake, for instance - hence why we didn't get RSE remakes in Gen. V.


So, all in all (TL;DR), the money aspect doesn't dictate that GameFreak should make a game because it would earn money. It says that for an optimal amount of money to be made, the optimal choice of game should be made too. This means that remakes aren't inevitable, since they will not be relevant forever, and there could be other games with potential to make more money with less risk.

That being said, Diamond and Pearl are the best-selling Pokémon games to date, which translates into a very big "nostalgia crowd". While remakes aren't guaranteed, there amount of previous players makes a pretty solid case for it.
 

Pikachu315111

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The aspect of money should not be forgotten, but neither should this simple fact: They only make one main series Pokémon game every year, tops. One every 18 months (with longer gaps between generations) was the norm for a while, but since BW2 things have sped up quite a bit. Time will tell if the new schedule will stay or not.

That means that GameFreak get one annual money boost into their coffers. Okay, the income will be spread out a little, but generally we're talking about one big revenue-collecting sales item per year or longer. Spin-off games certainly bring in some money too, but the big figures are all connected to the main series games. Since the differences between paired versions are minuscule, they should be seen as one game rather than two. Sorry to say.

This rather long period between games means that GameFreak need to make each game as sale-worthy as possible. They have to make the game they predict will sell the best. Otherwise, potential is lost, sales don't go well, and less money comes in to pay the bills. Cue a one-year waiting period before the next big seller can be attempted. Yes, every Pokémon game would probably sell like hotcakes, but it shouldn't be overlooked that some games would sell better than others, and it is in GameFreak's best interest to make the best sellers rather than sticking to a pattern.

To get the best shot at earning their money with that one annual game, they will usually consider several options for what that game looks like. Will it be a remake? A sequel? An entirely new generation? Different games have slightly different target groups, different implications for marketing (which the Anime must be seen as a part of, like it or not), and different projected sales numbers. Remakes will cater to the fans who played the original games many years ago. Entirely new generations means heavy marketing to capture those who have never played a Pokémon game before. Sequels à la BW2 are mostly targetted towards those who bought the games the sequels were based on, in the vein of "If you liked the previous game, check out these new upgrades!" And so on and so forth. The decisions are mostly taken a while in advance, and I expect each generation to be planned out before the middle of the previous one. In other words, what games are going to be made for Gen. VII are probably scheduled already, complete with approximate release dates.

Anyway, this means that a remake is only one of the options to be considered. As I said above, a major target group for those will be players who played and enjoyed the original games, and who still are of the age with plenty of time for Pokémon playing (pre-college or pre-marriage for most people, I guess. Smogon has exceptions all over, but probably doesn't represent an average of the gamer population). I mean, the people who played the original Red and Blue are in their late twenties now, and selling them Kanto remakes again probably wouldn't work that well. Rather, the current target group for Pokémon mostly consists of people who were introduced to the series by RSE or later.

This means that in a few years' time, the "nostalgia crowd" for D/P will largely outgrow the series. Of course, the hard core (like us) will remain, but in the general mix of Pokémon's target group, they will probably be a minority. In other words, there are only a few more years that D/P remakes would be feasible to sell, before the alternatives would be a better choice for the relevant "game release slots" (given the short time span of Gen. V, this will probably arise as a problem if or when remakes of those games will be considered).

So GameFreak might find that while a D/P remake would be projected to haul in big money, maybe a sequel or new generation of sorts would haul in even more. If so, they would be better off dropping the remake, and use their annual main series release on the better option.

Hardware should also be taken into consideration. When the series migrates to a new console, a large percentage of players will probably abandon it. It's easier to buy the games if you already have taken the cost of the console, so when the new game requires you to shell out bucks by the hundreds if you want to play, many decide to save the money and not buy the games. Remember the "outrage" when it was revealed that XY would be 3DS exclusive?
Few people buy a 3DS only to play Pokémon, but many people buy Pokémon because they have a 3DS already. Instead of catering to the former crowd, GameFreak might as well roll out a new generation, targetting newcomers who are willing to shell out for the new console/already have it for other reasons. GameFreak doesn't start a console generation (and by extent, a Pokémon generation) with a remake or a sequel, they cut straight for an entirely new game. This "forces" a slot that might otherwise have been the prime time for releasing a remake, for instance - hence why we didn't get RSE remakes in Gen. V.


So, all in all (TL;DR), the money aspect doesn't dictate that GameFreak should make a game because it would earn money. It says that for an optimal amount of money to be made, the optimal choice of game should be made too. This means that remakes aren't inevitable, since they will not be relevant forever, and there could be other games with potential to make more money with less risk.

That being said, Diamond and Pearl are the best-selling Pokémon games to date, which translates into a very big "nostalgia crowd". While remakes aren't guaranteed, there amount of previous players makes a pretty solid case for it.
Another factor that should be remembered is that ORAS showed us they won't make a remake until the new handheld is released. FRLG was released on the Gameboy Advance, HGSS was released on the DS, and ORAS was released on the 3DS. I remember people saying the Gen III remakes would happen during Gen V since at that point it looked like it was generation based, but Gen V was still on the DS so it came and gone with no remakes. There has to be a big reason for a remake to be done, and one of them is innovation to the handheld technology and game mechanics. HGSS already implemented the DS era's tech and mechanics and doing remakes of the Gen III games at that point would feel like they're doing the same thing. Jump to 3DS, the handheld tech allows for much more (mainly a major increase to memory space) and the mechanics has also done a major upgrade with a full 3D world, Pokemon-Amie, and Mega Evolutions. With all that it makes the idea of remaking an older generation new again as they can implement those new exciting features. However, now that they have they're not going to do it again for rest of the 3DS's lifespan (unless they REALLY want to milk the "Gen III remake" thing and remake Kanto again (though if they do hopefully they do something different like just allow us go to Johto so you can get that region in 3D too)), we'll need to wait for the next handheld console and new gen released on it before we get a Gen IV remake.

Also I don't know what you're talking about the window for Gen IV remakes closing. If that was the case, they would have not done Gen III remakes. Going back to HGSS, I remember around that time a lot of players were excited for the prospects of a Gen III remake. Jump to Gen V and many waited for the announcement of Gen III remakes. B2W2 came out and people said the next game would no doubt be the Gen III remakes... then came the 3DS and the announcement of XY. Overnight Gen III remakes turned from a possibility to a joke with very few hanging onto hope they would do a remake. Then, out of the blue, Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire. Every forum I went to flip and the old joke "Hoenn confurmed!!1!" turned from a joke into a cheer of celebration. Evey new announcement got people more and more excited seeing how was Hoenn updated. Obviously the hype for Gen III remakes didn't die down, it just became dormant until it was finally announced.

I actually haven't seen much hype for Gen IV, but I'm going to assume that's because everyone learned their lesson and will be waiting until the release of the next handheld to start talking about prospects of it. Also do you remember when they revealed ORAS it had a tag line that got many people confused?

"Explore a new land". New land? But Hoenn isn't new, what do they mean by that?

Well what they they mean is a new land to NEW players. Pokemon usually never advertises to the old player, or if they do they make sure to include the new players into the loop too. Though they throw in plenty for veteran players, Pokemon's main market are kids and that's who they're trying to sell the games too. They know the veteran players will buy the game, especially those with nostalgia for that region, but its the new blood they really want to hook into the franchise. When they do make a Gen IV remake I guarantee you they'll market it as a new region to explore since they're talking to the kiddies.

Also if I recall the outrage that came about XY wasn't because it wasn't available on the DS but rather it was cutting Gen V's time short & the Gen III remakes weren't announced (and later the closing of the Dream World). At that point people were looking at things generation wise instead of console lifetime wise, and the Pokemon's DS lifespan was pretty big with 9 main series games (Diamond, Pearl, Platinum, HeartGold, SoulSilver, Black, White, Black 2, White 2)! In addition another outrage that came later was that, as soon as a new handheld is released and a generation for it, they'll most likely close down PokeBank's connectivity with the Gen V games. In a few years we're going to get another lock out and this time it's completely artificially made because there should be no reason why we can't directly trade Pokemon from Gen V to Gen VI.
 
Another thing is that remakes don't just cater to players who played the older games. I know that if a 4th gen remake came around, I'd buy and play it because I did not play DPPt and therefore have not played any games in Sinnoh, so it would be new for me.
 
Another thing is that remakes don't just cater to players who played the older games. I know that if a 4th gen remake came around, I'd buy and play it because I did not play DPPt and therefore have not played any games in Sinnoh, so it would be new for me.
Conversely I did play Gan IV but not played gen III before (though I still find it strangely nostalgic for some reason). So your point still stands.

However the question is, are players like us the minority compared to players that did play the original versions?
 

Agonist

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However the question is, are players like us the minority compared to players that did play the original versions?
Not necessarily; there are plenty of old players who will pick up remakes for nostalgia and whatnot, but there are also plenty of new players who will either pick it up as their first game, or have picked up a previous same generation game, and want the new one to go with it.
 
I think there's a demand. The alternative is losing the region forever. Which, as any fan of Unova's story will tell you, is something we can't afford to do.
 
I would prefer a Platinum remake over the obvious D/P remakes, but then everyone would complain over not getting Yellow, Crystal and Emerald remade instead of the 3 paired versions. Platinum is my favorite game of all time, and Sinnoh is my favorite region, so I can't wait until Sinnoh comes back. Especially with Mega's for all my faves (Empoleon, Bibarel, Roserade, Luxray, Staraptor, Crobat, Spiritomb)

And I'd also rather have all 4 remaining regions in 3D, but it's very unlikely to get Johto. Kanto will inevitably get 20th anniversary remakes because Game Freak loves feels and nostalgia. Sinnoh and Unova will presumably get 3D remakes as well. But what about Johto? Unless Johto also gets 20th anniversary remakes, it could very well end up the Hoenn of the 3D world (Hoenn being the only region not DS-ified).
 

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