Gen V Balanced Hackmons

[V4Victini]

It's not a glitch vincent, mold breaker trick is the only way you can remove a plate from multitype arceus.
Speaking of which, i would like to see a suspect test involving mold breaker, i've been thinking about it a lot(and even did a few tests in the ladder with it) and i think mold breaker is not healthy to the metagame as it is now, it's ability to ignore unaware can mean the end of stall as a playstyle in Balanced Hackmons due to said playstyle lacking the offensive pressure needed to stop mold breaker sweepers from setting up and cutting through the team like butter. No, i'm not saying mold breaker is uncounterable,as articblast pointed out you can just outright stop the sweepers from setting up in the first place by the use of offensive pressure, my point is it will eliminate the balance out of balanced hackmons by putting only offense againist offense, reducing that way the variety of sets that will be found in the tier and possibly getting rid of stall from the tier.

Wrong. That's a big big bug :|

 

[Pikachuun]

Wrong. That's a big big bug :|

Why did I have to leave my giant fly-swatter at home? Also, I might as well throw my 2 cents in about Spore.
Mold Breaker Spore is by far one of the most annoying things in existence if you do not come prepared for it. Most BH players have a counter for it, while others just send in an impostermon and hope they win the speed tie. Status Orbers, such as Regigigas and the like, come prepared. Just use Protect/Magic Coat turn 1 and bam, instant gratification. Sleep Talk, just as it helps a few choice sets, helps here too, allowing you to basically use a random move and hurt that Deoxys that put you to sleep with proper predictions and, of course, luck. Do I think Sleep Clause should be on? Maybe. If it becomes that one move (if it already isn't), go ahead. Even without sleep clause, the metagame will develop counters, and already has, to this annoying tactic.

 

[Hollymon]

Okay so before, I gave you a snippet of my team, which heavily relied on stat boosting and baton passing, but after many suggestions to change it, and the fact that it didn't really work, I have a completely new team!

Magnezone @ Lum Berry
Prankster
-Thunder Wave
-Teeter Dance
-Ice Beam
-Earthquake
Lax Nature (+Atk -SpD)

This is Magnezone, my amazing lead, which have already caused 2 players to forfeit in the first 5 turns already (used him since yesterday when i completely redid my whole team) and annoys lots of players who cant do a single thing when they are paralyzed and confused, forcing them to switch out, or if they don't spam ice beam/thunderbolt or switch out. All these moves have 100% accuracy since I didn't think moves like blizzard was worth it. Also those two moves give a lot of coverage, being super effective against 9 types and having lots of neutral coverage.

Blissey @ Leftovers
Impostor
-Spore
-Flamethrower
-Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt
Modest Nature (+SpA -Atk)

Basically the standard impostor Blissey. If i see a troublesome opponent, I can switch in, copy its stats and typing and then hope I win the speed tie. A wise man once told me while I was playing BH one day that every Pokemon should have a counter to itself, so if i do move first, I can hopefully use on of its own moves against it. If they do not have a counter to itself, they usually have other good moves anyway. If I switch into an opponent with mold breaker by accident, I still have a good set of moves and a nature to help it, and with Blissey's high hp, hopefully I can spore if it gets too dangerous then spam moves/switch out.

Deoxys-S @ Leftovers
Unaware
-Heart Swap
-Gastro Acid
-Ice Beam
-Baton Pass
Timid Nature (+Spe -Atk

This is a great set since I can switch in on boosted opponents (unless they have mold breaker), take their stats, suppress their ability and baton pass to another teammate who can then probably sweep the whole team, unless I have a tricky opponent. Ice beam is there for taunts as it provides good coverage on a lot of types and the leftovers just recovers HP as the battle wears on.

Deoxys-A @ Leftovers
No Guard
-Blizzard
-Night Daze
-Inferno
-Night Daze
Hasty Nature (+Spe -Def)

This is amazing, it gives me super effectiveness against 11 types, including the 3 which Deoxys is weak against, chances of freezing, burning and confusing are guaranteed and I have neutral coverage for every type (I think, correct me if I'm wrong), plus, I will never miss!!! Such a great ability, although it is tricky getting right when i switch in.

Ho-oh @ Life Orb
Magic Guard
-Brave Bird
-Head Smash
-Flare Blitz
-Volt Tackle
Adamant Nature (+Atk -SpA)

With Magic Guard, I can take no recoil so using the life orb to gain even more power on my moves, with no drawbacks is amazing. I take no damage from Stealth Rocks, which would normally take half my HP, and all my moves are really powerful. The only problems come when a Pokemon with Mold Breaker comes in, then I must switch to another Pokemon.

Mewtwo @ Leftovers
Mold Breaker
-Spore
-Psystrike
-Heart Swap
-Baton Pass
Timid Nature (+Spe -Atk)

This is my Mold Breaker Pokemon, which every team should have. He can come in and spore, without having to worry about Magic Bounce, he can Heartswap and gain the other Pokemon's stat boosts, then baton passes to another team mate/spam Psystrike. I might change him though, getting rid of Heart Swap, and putting toxic instead.

any comments are welcome, thanks i just want to improve
and here they are : http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/balancedhackmons-52027660

 

[Magatsu Izanagi]

Okay so before, I gave you a snippet of my team, which heavily relied on stat boosting and baton passing, but after many suggestions to change it, and the fact that it didn't really work, I have a completely new team!

Magnezone @ Lum Berry
Prankster
-Thunder Wave
-Teeter Dance
-Ice Beam
-Earthquake
Lax Nature (+Atk -SpD)

This is Magnezone, my amazing lead, which have already caused 2 players to forfeit in the first 5 turns already (used him since yesterday when i completely redid my whole team) and annoys lots of players who cant do a single thing when they are paralyzed and confused, forcing them to switch out, or if they don't spam ice beam/thunderbolt or switch out. All these moves have 100% accuracy since I didn't think moves like blizzard was worth it. Also those two moves give a lot of coverage, being super effective against 9 types and having lots of neutral coverage.

Blissey @ Leftovers
Impostor
-Spore
-Flamethrower
-Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt
Modest Nature (+SpA -Atk)

Basically the standard impostor Blissey. If i see a troublesome opponent, I can switch in, copy its stats and typing and then hope I win the speed tie. A wise man once told me while I was playing BH one day that every Pokemon should have a counter to itself, so if i do move first, I can hopefully use on of its own moves against it. If they do not have a counter to itself, they usually have other good moves anyway. If I switch into an opponent with mold breaker by accident, I still have a good set of moves and a nature to help it, and with Blissey's high hp, hopefully I can spore if it gets too dangerous then spam moves/switch out.

Deoxys-S @ Leftovers
Unaware
-Heart Swap
-Gastro Acid
-Ice Beam
-Baton Pass
Timid Nature (+Spe -Atk

This is a great set since I can switch in on boosted opponents (unless they have mold breaker), take their stats, suppress their ability and baton pass to another teammate who can then probably sweep the whole team, unless I have a tricky opponent. Ice beam is there for taunts as it provides good coverage on a lot of types and the leftovers just recovers HP as the battle wears on.

Deoxys-A @ Leftovers
No Guard
-Blizzard
-Night Daze
-Inferno
-Night Daze
Hasty Nature (+Spe -Def)

This is amazing, it gives me super effectiveness against 11 types, including the 3 which Deoxys is weak against, chances of freezing, burning and confusing are guaranteed and I have neutral coverage for every type (I think, correct me if I'm wrong), plus, I will never miss!!! Such a great ability, although it is tricky getting right when i switch in.

Ho-oh @ Life Orb
Magic Guard
-Brave Bird
-Head Smash
-Flare Blitz
-Volt Tackle
Adamant Nature (+Atk -SpA)

With Magic Guard, I can take no recoil so using the life orb to gain even more power on my moves, with no drawbacks is amazing. I take no damage from Stealth Rocks, which would normally take half my HP, and all my moves are really powerful. The only problems come when a Pokemon with Mold Breaker comes in, then I must switch to another Pokemon.

Mewtwo @ Leftovers
Mold Breaker
-Spore
-Psystrike
-Heart Swap
-Baton Pass
Timid Nature (+Spe -Atk)

This is my Mold Breaker Pokemon, which every team should have. He can come in and spore, without having to worry about Magic Bounce, he can Heartswap and gain the other Pokemon's stat boosts, then baton passes to another team mate/spam Psystrike. I might change him though, getting rid of Heart Swap, and putting toxic instead.

any comments are welcome, thanks i just want to improve
and here they are : http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/balancedhackmons-52027660

Pretty nice team Hollymon, just a little thing i'd like to suggest changing would be the obvious blissey for chansey for the fact evio still is in effect once you imposter something meaning you can have a bulkier version of your opponent, i would suggest also changing the attacking moves on blissey/chansey (if you change it) to : Fake out, spore, skill swap, Heal order(or any healing move really.) and when using a imposter always use a speed boosting nature to make sure you won't lose the speed tie to stuff like timid palkia.

I found interesting the concept of the unaware boosts stealer deo-s but i don't think it's bulky enough to take on set up pokemon that boost their speed (such as shift gear poison heal gigas, shell smash users and weather speed boosted pokemon with high offensive stats.), also sorry if i'm bothering you with the comments but why does deo-A have 2 slots with night daze?

 

[Rumors]

Your team has a huge weakness to Dark and Ghost attackers, especially stuff like Imposter-proof Gira and Gengar or Chloro, Imposter-resistant Chandelure.

But I mainly came to say that I'd recommend swapping Deo-A with something else, like another Mewtwo. Sure, nice attack stats, but atrocious bulk. Weedle can 2HKO it. No seriously, I'm not making this up.

252+ Atk Weedle Bug Bite vs. 252 HP / 252- Def Deoxys-A: 192-228 (63.15 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That's really just how bad Deo-A's bulk is.

 

[Hollymon]

Pretty nice team Hollymon, just a little thing i'd like to suggest changing would be the obvious blissey for chansey for the fact evio still is in effect once you imposter something meaning you can have a bulkier version of your opponent, i would suggest also changing the attacking moves on blissey/chansey (if you change it) to : Fake out, spore, skill swap, Heal order(or any healing move really.) and when using a imposter always use a speed boosting nature to make sure you won't lose the speed tie to stuff like timid palkia.

I found interesting the concept of the unaware boosts stealer deo-s but i don't think it's bulky enough to take on set up pokemon that boost their speed (such as shift gear poison heal gigas, shell smash users and weather speed boosted pokemon with high offensive stats.), also sorry if i'm bothering you with the comments but why does deo-A have 2 slots with night daze?

I meant Dynamic Punch but I accidentally put night daze twice lol. I have taken your comments on board, so I can improve my team and I will change blissey to what you said, and give it a timid nature (+Spe -atk), but why should i give it skill swap? I don't get it. deoxys-s to dialga since it has great bulk and is only weak to ground and fighting, covered by ice beam which is great offensively just incase I get taunt or something.

Your team has a huge weakness to Dark and Ghost attackers, especially stuff like Imposter-proof Gira and Gengar or Chloro, Imposter-resistant Chandelure.

But I mainly came to say that I'd recommend swapping Deo-A with something else, like another Mewtwo. Sure, nice attack stats, but atrocious bulk. Weedle can 2HKO it. No seriously, I'm not making this up.

252+ Atk Weedle Bug Bite vs. 252 HP / 252- Def Deoxys-A: 192-228 (63.15 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That's really just how bad Deo-A's bulk is.

Hmm I could change Deoxys A to a Spiritomb (no weaknesses, immune to 3 types, good Defense and sp.Defense, alright attack and sp. attack) with No Guard and give it Dynamic Punch, Megahorn, Shadow Ball and Heal Order

 

[Magatsu Izanagi]

I meant Dynamic Punch but I accidentally put night daze twice lol. I have taken your comments on board, so I can improve my team and I will change blissey to what you said, and give it a timid nature (+Spe -atk), but why should i give it skill swap? I don't get it. deoxys-s to dialga since it has great bulk and is only weak to ground and fighting, covered by ice beam which is great offensively just incase I get taunt or something.


Hmm I could change Deoxys A to a Spiritomb (no weaknesses, immune to 3 types, good Defense and sp.Defense, alright attack and sp. attack) with No Guard and give it Dynamic Punch, Megahorn, Shadow Ball and Heal Order

the reason to skill swap is in case something uses substitute and sets up on a poke, with skill swap you can give the pokemon with sub imposter, transforming him into your chans, fake out let's you break illusions (which can't be impostered.).

 

[Hollymon]

ah i thought imposter only happened on switch ins! thanks so much!

the reason to skill swap is in case something uses substitute and sets up on a poke, with skill swap you can give the pokemon with sub imposter, transforming him into your chans, fake out let's you break illusions (which can't be impostered.).

 

[ntiller]

It is way, way too early to call for a mold breaker ban. Stall is not dead. Moldy sweepers are good, but we do not know that they are broken. I run an imposter and a prankster D-bonder on my team, and I have not had any issues with mold breaker sweepers.

While it is possible that the meta will eventually stabilize into just moldy offense, this has not yet happened and, to me, it seems unlikely. Imposter and Poison Heal are both very good, and they both also happen to check the ability that suddenly has everyone terrified. The only thing that really happened is Unaware got a lot worse. Unaware is not the only way, or even the best way, to beat set up sweepers.

Also, this is the team I have been using if anyone is interested. It is currently #3 on the ladder.
Registeel @ Lum Berry
Trait: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Calm Nature
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- Recover
- Aromatherapy

Regigigas @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Shift Gear
- Facade
- Spore
- Dragon Tail

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Relaxed Nature
- Recover
- Skill Swap
- Final Gambit
- Fake Out

Giratina @ Draco Plate
Trait: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Quiver Dance
- Judgment
- Recover

Lugia @ Lum Berry
Trait: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Spore
- Stealth Rock
- Recover
- Whirlwind

Groudon @ Lum Berry
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Nature Power
- Swords Dance
- Recover
- Destiny Bond

The Magic Bounce sub passer has changed a lot- I have tried Gira, Blissey, Chansey, and lastly Registeel in that slot. I am currently thinking of going back to Blissey.

 

[Vincent]

Let's theorymon a bit about BH 6th generation:

The ability Refrigerate of Amaura/Aurorus on a Kyurem-B with Belly Drum + ExtremeSpeed would be insane dangerous, since Refrigerate turns Normal attacks onto Ice attacks and boost them.

Or Fur Coat from Furfrou on Eviolite Chansey, or Shuckle in sand, or Giratina, among others, it's like really tough walls.

 

[ntiller]

If Belly Drum Espeed on Slaking (that can have any ability) is not a good strategy, I doubt having the same thing on Kyurem B with no ability, a bit more power, and a different type will be particularly good.

Fur Coat looks awesome and I really want to try it.

 

[Redless]

In my opinion, belly drum espeed slaking can be good if played right. I think that fridge kyub looks good, but I like bdrum for some reason. What is this fur coat?

 

[Pikachuun]

In my opinion, belly drum espeed slaking can be good if played right. I think that fridge kyub looks good, but I like bdrum for some reason. What is this fur coat?

I think it halves damage from either direct attacks or all attacks in general. Idk for certain.

 

[Klang]

Effect
In battle
Fur Coat halves damage from physical moves.

Outside of battle
It is unknown if Fur Coat has an effect outside of battle.

Taken from Bulbapedia.

Seems like a very good ability, but if the metagame remains as specially-based as it is now it will have limited use.

 

[Redless]

And with mold break around, that could cripple it. But it may see use.

 

[Pikachuun]

Seems like a very good ability, but if the metagame remains as specially-based as it is now it will have limited use.

Except on Chansey, which is a god-tier special wall.

 

[Adrian Marin]

Assuming sleep status becomes uncommon next gen, I think that Fur Coat will play a vital role in stopping physical attackers, and if the buff is bypassed by Mold Breaker, physical attackers will probably usually run it as an ability.

EDIT: Is Mold Breaker going to be banned? Most BH players want it banned, there is no true counter because of the sheer diversity of sweepers and it's unfair that it should be so easy to sweep with a few BD sweepers with Mold Breaker, and if someone is going to say "stop offense with offense", i'm just going to say that shouldn't even be necessary, BH was a balanced metagame ever since its inception, and should stay that way.

 

[Rumors]

Ice has better coverage than Normal, hence why Refrigerate Extreme Speed sounds better in theory than Slaking's Extreme Speed. Kyu-B could hit stuff like Giratina, Skarmory, and Ferrothorn for SE or neutral damage whereas Slaking deals nothing or resisted damage with Extreme Speed.

Of course, there's other moves that could be neat with Refrigerate. Return, Facade, Body Slam, Explosion, Fake Out, possibly Judgement, and possible Super Fang all immediately come to mind.

I'm not sure if the power boost referenced by the site descriptions means it actually boosts the power or that it's actually just talking about the STAB boost that it'd lack otherwise. Keep in mind that, as far as we know, only an Ice-type gets the ability in standard play, so it could be talking about STAB there.

 

[nyph]

Of course, there's other moves that could be neat with Refrigerate. Return, Facade, Body Slam, Explosion, Fake Out, possibly Judgement, and possible Super Fang all immediately come to mind.

Super effective super fangs would be fun.

 

[asterat]

Unfortunately if you have refrigerate as an ability you can't also have poison heal, rendering facade useless :(
I think refrigerate is getting over hyped a lot. I will leave kyurem-b to other strategies it will pull off better. It can easily go boltbeam and leave its dragon typing behind, which will be pretty nice in generation 6. Sheer force will still be good, and maybe something like coil poison heal (dark void fuck you grass types as well as icile crahs and bolt strike)

 

[Redless]

EDIT: Is Mold Breaker going to be banned? Most BH players want it banned, there is no true counter because of the sheer diversity of sweepers and it's unfair that it should be so easy to sweep with a few BD sweepers with Mold Breaker, and if someone is going to say "stop offense with offense", i'm just going to say that shouldn't even be necessary, BH was a balanced metagame ever since its inception, and should stay that way.

Is it just me who is thinking that more than mold breaker, poison heal gigas is ruining the metagame? I slap that on every team I make and it pulls its weight with no thought to synergy and no skill on my part. With the new diversity in ph gigas, like the bd one, ph gigas is even harder to handle. The only reason it doesn't kill everyone is that niche checks like golurk, cobalion, and random stuff run around. IMO, ph gigas is the worst, most unbalancing thing in the meta right now, because it is very hard to handle without either running hyper offense to beat the crap out of it every time it tries to set up (and with 100 speed, great bulk, spore, and crap tons of automatic recovery, this isn't an easy feat) or running a situational check that covers it.

 

[Adrian Marin]

Poison Heal Gigas/Slaking/Arceus are definitely ruining the metagame, after a few boosts, countering it becomes unreliable and impossible with the appropriate coverage move. I think it would be reasonable to ban PH For Gigas/Slaking/Arceus only, and to ban Mold Breaker, both don't have any reliable counters.

 

[Keep it Playful]

Poison Heal is no doubt getting out of control. With only a few ways to stop it, even if the effect is nullified the damage taken trying to stop it will often be a KO. Skill Swap and Gastro Acid are the most reliable ways, and the less reliable ways are Trick, Knock Off and Fling (utilizing a Lum Berry).

I would like to see Poison Heal go altogether, as this meta has enough healing as it is, with every Pokemon having access to recover. Shift Gear, Spore, Facade, *Magic Guard* Regigigas would surely rise if this were to happen, but without access to Poison Heal, the fourth slot would have to be sacrificed to have a recovery move, greatly decreasing the effectiveness of the Balanced Hackmons breaking monster.

Before the Mold Breaker fix, I felt like Balanced Hackmons was a much more balanced meta, where setting up boosts and sweeping took more skill and often could easily be stopped. Though with Spore taking a hit with Gen VI (Grass immunity), if Mold Breaker sticks around I predict that both Regigigas and Moldy sweepers will be less effective if they use Dark Void.

 

[Halliday]

Inb4 justified sleep talk regigigas. XD

Edit: Does moldy ignore justified? I would think it would, as it does not actually stop the move from happening. I would look it up, but I'm lazy

 

[Keep it Playful]

According to the list on Smogon (this site lol), Mold Breaker does not ignore Justified.

Edit: Linked to the Justified page by accident. xD