1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Gen V OU Team (3 Cutemons!)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Hawkflight, Dec 8, 2010.

  1. Hawkflight

    Hawkflight

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2010
    Messages:
    38
    Hi. This is my first practiced attempt at a competitive 5th-Gen team. I have used it a few times, and it's worked pretty well for me, but I have also noticed there are some flaws, so it's not the best it can be. I am constantly working to improve this team, so I would appreciate any feedback you can offer me.

    My team at a glance:

    [​IMG] | [​IMG] | [​IMG] | [​IMG] | [​IMG] | [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    Stealth Rock & Roll
    Nuttre @ Rugged Helmet
    Ability: Iron Barbs
    Nature: Brave
    EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 Sp. Def (0 Speed IVs)
    -Gyro Ball
    -Spikes
    -Stealth Rock
    -Thunder Wave

    I think this guy is pretty obvious, but just in case it isn't ... this guy is my lead. He's got the bulk to set up Spikes and Stealth Rock, then deal some serious damage with Gyro Ball (BP 150 vs lead Erufuun with no speed investment). And when hit with a physical attack, he strips away over a quarter of the foe's health. This actually makes me think Nuttre might be better suited as a backup lead, so he can come in against a physical attack it resists and start to set up slightly later in the match. Thunder Wave is to give setup sweepers a hard time. The EVs are to maximize his attack as well as boosting his longevity, but I'm thinking of putting those Atk EVs into HP for more longevity.

    [​IMG]
    Trick Sheep
    Erufuun @ Leftovers
    Ability: Mischievous Heart
    Nature: Careful
    EVs: 240 HP / 132 Def / 128 Sp. Def / 8 Speed (to outrun other Erufuun)
    -Encore
    -Toxic
    -Substitute
    -Leech Seed

    Ah yes, Erufuun. I like this pokemon, she's my other candidate for lead, or more accurately anti-lead, but she also works well working against pokemon who try to set up for a sweep by dancing, as well as breaking stalls. (On a side not, powering up by dancing? Seriously, Nintendo?) As for moves, Encore is just hax. It traps the foe in an innocuous move, letting you set up a substitute, Toxic, and just wait for the other guy to die. Substitute is just in case my opponent switches his pokemon out for something more offensive, giving me a turn to set up Toxic on it before fleeing the scene. Finally, Leech Seed completes the set, making Eruguun a top-notch sub-seeder. The EVs are to maximize longevity, and 4 EVs in Speed in order to outrun other Erufuun with no Speed investment.

    [​IMG]
    Water Balloon OF DOOOOOM
    Burungeru @ Leftovers
    Ability: Water Absorb (Cursed Body?)
    Nature: Calm
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Sp. Def
    -Boiling Water
    -Shadow Ball
    -Toxic
    -Recover

    Now this is a fun pokemon. I've brought him (yes, him, the female version looks like a w****) in on my opponent, poisoned him or burned him, then either waited it out, did the same to the foe's replacement, or switched out to another pokemon, his job done. Boiling Water is a STAB that has a decent chance to burn the opponent, Shadow Ball is his other STAB. Toxic is, well, Toxic, and Recover for ... recovery. Yeah. Pretty obvious stuff here. EVs are obvious, to maximize longevity for better stalling. I am considering replacing his ability with Cursed Body, but I'm wondering if it's worth it.

    [​IMG]
    Land Shark!
    Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Sand Veil
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Speed
    -Outrage
    -Earthquake
    -Stone Edge
    -Fire Blast

    Garchomp, my revenge killer. This guy is good at one thing and one thing only: breaking things. He comes in on a KO against an enemy who's giving me trouble, and unless the other guy can knock him out in one hit he generally takes the other guy out. And, oftentimes, a good chuck of the next guy. The moves and stat spread here are so obvious, I'm not even going to bother mentioning them. Okay, maybe just briefly to say, I am considering putting those Speed EVs into HP for a little more longevity.

    [​IMG]
    It's cute ... but what is it?
    Rankurusu @ Life Orb
    Ability: Magic Guard
    Nature: Quiet
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Sp. Atk
    -Psychic
    -Focus Blast
    -Calm Mind
    -Recover

    Awww, no more Kerudio. Rankurusu is cute though, and it boasts some rather odd capabilities. I originally put him (her?) on my team in order to patch up my major weakness to fighting pokemon, especially Roopushin, but I like how he fares outside of that role too. His slow speed generally ensures he won't get hit by a fully-powered Payback. Focus Blast is for coverage, but I'm considering ditching that for Shadow Ball to hit other Rankurusu, which I seem to come across quite frequently. Being the Calm Mind setup, he boasts Calm Mind to set him up for a sweep, and Recover to heal when his HP gets too low. His EVs were chosen after careful calculation to make him the perfect Roopushin counter, though I haven't yet encountered a Roopushin to test him on. Oh, and seriously. If anyone can tell me just what the heck this little guy is supposed to be, I would love to hear it.

    [​IMG]
    Child of the Stars
    Jirachi @ Expert Belt
    Ability: Serene Grace
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Speed
    -Iron Head
    -Fire Punch
    -Ice Punch
    -Grass Knot / Zen Headbutt

    Yes, I'm keeping a last-gen pokemon on my team, and for a good reason: he's good at what he does. I got this set off of Smogon, and it works really well, hitting 13/17 types for super-effective damage. This works well with his item, Expert Belt, which amplifies super-effective damage by 20%, allowing him to bluff a choice set. Iron head is there for a STAB with flinch hax, and the rest of the moves are there for coverage. Zen Headbutt is a new candidate for the last slot, providing STAB coverage against fighting-types and having a small chance to finch. This last move slot boils down to, do I want coverage against bulky waters, or against fighting-types (Roopushin springs to mind)?
  2. min min

    min min

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2010
    Messages:
    939
    Ononokusu isn't outrunning any setup sweepers outside Dragonite or Gyarados, so you could drop some speed to outrun +1 max speed base 81s. Max speed Gyarados has 287 speed, FYI. If you think those two aren't that much of a threat, then you can even opt to hazard dropping to 263 speed to hit 394 when boosted, allowing you to outspeed max speed base 130s.
  3. Jaroda

    Jaroda

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,508
    Put those Attack EVs into HP and use Leech Seed over Explosion. NAttorei is an invaluable wall that will be doing annoying passiev damage combined with barbs, helmet and Leech Seed. It's such an important wall to have to switch in consistently you should not be sacrificing it so readily with Explosion. Gyro Ball is for when you have no other options. Passive damage and walling are its main priorities.

    With Burungeru having Boiling Water (and Toxic), it's redundant on Kerudio, who is supposed to be sweeping. Hence, you want more power with Surf or even Hydro Pump.

    Garcomp is a better scarfer than Ono. It gets STAB on EQ and is able to outspeed scarfed 100s, which Ono can't.

    Looking at the team as a whole, you are super Roopushin weak. You have no hard counters and it walks all over the Natt/Buru combo and you'll be in big trouble when you activate it's Guts. Then it will just Drain Punch and Stone Edge your whole team.
  4. Hawkflight

    Hawkflight

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2010
    Messages:
    38
    Thank you for your advice.

    @Jaroda: Two things. First, Pokemon Online is telling me that I can't get a Nattorei with Stealth Rock, Spikes, and Explosion. Is this a glitch, or is this true? If it is true, which two should I choose, and what should I put in my final moveslot?

    Second, thanks for the heads up on Roopushin. (I figure this applies to some other fighting-types like Breloom as well?) How would you suggest I remedy this?
  5. Colonel Darren

    Colonel Darren

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    Messages:
    495
    Have you considered Rankurusu? It's slower than Pushin, packs a severely powerful Psychic (You can't use Psycho Shock if it's gotten a Bulk Up.). You can also lure out Dark moves to boost Keruido's Justice Heart.
  6. Hawkflight

    Hawkflight

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2010
    Messages:
    38
    That makes sense. In which case the question becomes, what pokemon do i replace with it?
  7. Colonel Darren

    Colonel Darren

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    Messages:
    495
    Honestly, I see Jirachi as the least useful. It has very little to offer your team in my mind. Looks more like it's just a sixth member that was tossed on with very little to offer the team other than maybe Flinching something, and a Scarf set would have worked just as well.
  8. Hawkflight

    Hawkflight

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2010
    Messages:
    38
    Well, I honestly think I disagree with that. Jirachi has net me some very important KOs, when others couldn't cut it, thanks to hitting 13/17 types for super-effective damage. Nonetheless, I will try it, it's worth a shot. But I honestly think maybe Erufuun would be a better sacrifice ... maybe. This bodes more testing.

    My main worry with both of Roopushin's counters, Rankurusu and Desukan, is that they're pretty situational. Are they really that good outside of countering slow fighting-types? If not, then I'll need to consider something else.
  9. Saint Ashes

    Saint Ashes

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    Messages:
    35
    Nattorei obtains Spikes and Stealth Rock through breeding, but each of them from different fathers. It's not possible to get both on the same Nattorei legally. You can get one entry hazard and leech seed through breeding however.

    Kerudio also isn't allowed to be used in OU currently. It's an event pokemon I think that has yet to be released.
  10. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8,168
    Yeah I'll go ahead and point out the obvious that Sain Ashes has pointed too-- Kerudio currently isn't allowed on the standard OU ladder (go to dream world).

    The first thing I notice (besides a bit of fanboysim ;) ) is no real objective as to how to win. This isn't a stall team, and yet it lacks any real form of offensive win condition. How exactly are you planning to beat the enemy?

    Now that comment is out of the way, let me point out some obvious points:

    Replace Onokusu for Garchomp. There is really no reason to be using Onokusu here instead of Garchomp-- if a scarfer is what you need, Garchomp is where it's at. The difference in attack power becomes far more trivial when you're not using an ATK boosting item or move. Besides, Garchomp's Earthquake is way more powerful, which pretty much counts for more than mould breaker, especially when Gliscor and Landalos are very common. Garchomp has Stealth Rock resistance and Sand immunity (in addition to veil), which combined with some of the highest defensive stats in OU (compared to onokusu's patheticly average stats) give him awesome survivability, important for scar users which are prone to switching in and out. The immunity to electric (and subsequenty thunderwave) gives him more survivability and switch ins as well. Most importantly though, that 102 speed score MATTERS a LOT in the scarf revenger game-- there was a reason that almost every scarf flygon/jirachi last gen was jolly MAX speed. The speed battle between scarf users decided way too many games. Garchomp also adds . . . something . . . of a win condition.


    As for replacing Kerudio, I am having some issues with it. Ideally, I would like to replace it with Terrakion (252 atk / 4 def / 252 speed jolly swords dance + rock polish), but that leaves you incredibly gliscor weak. In fact, you are incredibly gliscor weak. Except for Burungeru (who lets face it, has a hard time doing anything relevent to the incoming switch in), the rest of the team will have an incredibly difficult time dealing with your typical toxic orb gliscor . . . adding one more poke walled by gliscor just doesn't seem that happy . . .

    So I thought of two possibilities:

    1) Specs Latios (with Surf and Trick) who can fill in as wall breaker and general special attacker. It is a great gliscor check, and in a pinch, can help you with the noticable issue your team has wit Blissey. (stronger against gliscor, weaker to bliss)

    2) Rankurusu, who would provide a win condition, can beat Gliscor 1 on 1 if needed, and can setup on bliss all day (strong against bliss, a bit weaker against gliscor).

    Rankurusu would also help you with your serious weaks to Roobushin and other figting types . . . actually latios would help a bit there too.


    Finally, I frankly don't see what Erufuun is doing for this team. Why not replace it for Breloom or Shaymin-S? The former would be a good sleeper, help against blissey, and is overall a fantastic metagame pick right now (plus it kinda justifies NOT using darkrai . . .). Shaymin-S is just a fantastic pokemon in general, can pick up many wins, and would help you with your fighting type problems (which are very serious at this poing). Finding a spot for Psychic on Jirachi would probably be a good idea too. probably over Grass Knot.
  11. Tortferngatr

    Tortferngatr

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2009
    Messages:
    2,618
    Actually, Explosion is entirely legal with SR+Spikes. (Nattorei shares the Mineral egg group with Iwaparesu, which gets rocks and spikes both-former through level, the latter through breeding. Leech Seed+Spikes+SR is illegal though, as Torterra (SR [gen IV TM]+Leech seed [level],) can't learn Spikes, Iwaparesu (SR [level]+Spikes [breeding],) can't have Leech Seed, and Cacturne/Marakacchi/Roserade (Spikes [level for Cacturne, breeding for the others]+Leech Seed [level for Roserade and Cacturne, egg move for Marakacchi]) can't have Stealth Rock.)

    That being said, given the Explosion nerf, I don't really see the point in running it so much. Suicide leads are not desirable in Gen V. Power Whip is a convenient alternative to Explosion that can help Nattorei deal with bulky waters and Rain teams later in the match. Thunder wave can work to deal with sweepers, but that makes it mostly Doryuuzu setup fodder, and you don't want to give him the opportunity to set up, especially given you seem to lack a good check to it at +2. "Rugged Helmet" doesn't count.
  12. Zebstrika

    Zebstrika

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    857
    Your Burungeru is EV'd incorrectly. 252HP/208Def/28SpD+Calm would give you the same defensive stats, but with 20 EVs to spare.
    When you are boosting 2 stats (not to the max) and you will put a nature in one of them, it is usually better to put the boost from the nature in the higher stat, if you can achieve the same stats with EVs to spare. If you don't see why, suppose you have a pokemon whose nature could boost one stat 20 points (and suppose it is boosted) and another 27 points. You could ditch the nature and attempt to "fix" the lower stat with EVs. You would need to put 80 extra EVs into that stat. However, if you move the nature boost into the higher stat, that stat can be relieved of 108 EVs, and have to same actual stat as before. 80 of those EVs can be used to fix the previous stat, and you have 28 EVs left over.
  13. Diamond Smoke

    Diamond Smoke

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2010
    Messages:
    44
    I can see that ononokuso is going to be a huge ou later in the future, I see him on almost every Gen V team I've seen so far, so you gotta be careful when fighting opposing ones. Plus I do agree with the above post about Garchomp, because Garchomp is an uber level fighter. But I don't have the game yet either, so I'm curious to see these games for myself so I can make better thinking.
  14. Hawkflight

    Hawkflight

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2010
    Messages:
    38
    Ah, I was unaware of this. Thanks for the heads-up.

    Eh ... that's kinda complicated in an Ihavenoidea sort of way. I mean, each pokemon has a purpose, but I seem to win each battle differently. I won a few battles by setting up Kerudio with Calm Mind and sweeping my opponent's team. Then I won a couple of battles by stalling my opponent out with Erufuun. Once I actually led off with my scarfed Ononokusu, and swept my foe's first 3 pokemon before he even made his first move.

    Then of course there were all the battles I lost. *shrugs*

    Thanks for the tip. I do kinda have my concerns about how I'll just have to replace him once he gets banned to ubers, but hey, maybe he won't be what with the power creep and all.

    You know, it's funny you should mention that. This morning at school I replaced Jirachi with Rankurusu (hesitantly) and tested him out when I got home, and I really like the little guy. But now that I realize I can't use Kerudio in OU (T_T!), I can bring Jirachi back in.

    First off, <3 Skymin.

    Well, basically Erufuun is my anti-dancer. She comes in on a Dragon Dance or Sword Dance (or Calm Mind) and Encores them into that move for basically eternity. Set up Toxic, Leech Seed, and a Substitute just in case and watch your opponent squirm.

    I do agree that Breloom is good, and Shaymin Sky Forme is a very fun pokemon to use. Erufuun still bears more testing, so I'll keep that in mind if I decide she doesn't cut the mustard.

    Thanks for the tip. I actually did ditch Explosion in favor of Thunder Wave. That said, do you think Power Whip is a better choice over Thunder Wave?

    Wow, thanks for the tip! I'll be sure to do that.

    I agree. Some people at the very beginning were saying it was gonna be banned to ubers, but I disagree, it's a bit too frail for the top tier. And its speed in the nail in the coffin, as they say. As a side note, this was one of my concerns with switching to Garchomp, because I just know he's gonna be banned to ubers again once testing is over. xP

    @EVERYBODY: I am presently in the process of updating my OP. Some notable changes include:

    • Stat redistribution on Nuttre, Erufuun and Burungeru
    • Minor moveset changes
    • Replacing Kerudio with Rankurusu
    • Replacing Ononokusu with Garchomp
    I could use your opinions once I'm done updating, especially on the subject or Doryuuzu.
  15. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8,168
    Oh about Rankurusu, my recommendation would be the Calm Mind + Recover version with either Leftovers or LO (LO + Magic Guard is pretty epic)

    edit: Also, definitely no Explosion on Nattorei. With Explosion no longer causes defensive drops, it's just a waste of space . . . (explosion only hits as a 250 power move now, not 500 like in older gens)
  16. Diamond Smoke

    Diamond Smoke

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2010
    Messages:
    44
    I agree with you here as well, with low speed and overwhelming amounts of other dragon types in uber, it'll be hard to fight against faster dragon ubers such as rayquaza.
  17. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8,168
    I doubt Garchomp will be banned as things are going . . . in any case, teams always become obsolete. There isno point in worrying about some theoretical ban that might or might not happen a few months down the line where this team will be obsolete anyway.
  18. Hawkflight

    Hawkflight

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2010
    Messages:
    38
    My update is complete. Questions? Comments? Legitimate concerns?
  19. Diamond Smoke

    Diamond Smoke

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2010
    Messages:
    44
    I remember reading rankurusu is supposed to be some sort of cell type... pokemon... thing and ruupushin looks like some sort of slaking rip off. Mostly its face though.
  20. Jaroda

    Jaroda

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,508
    Psychic AND Psycho Shock? No no no! Replace Psycho Shock for Calm Mind and TR for Recover. The only other pokemon that benefits from TR is Nattorei and TR would nerf his Gyro Ball and TWAVE will make your enemies faster. Psycho shock is nowhere near as useful as people thought it was, especially with Blissey usage dropping. Rankurusu (the cell pokemon btw) is the perfect Roopushin counter, you don't have to worry about testing.
  21. ToastTyrant13

    ToastTyrant13

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    2,116
    It is still a bit early, seeing as we have no idea what the tiers are going to look like.

    Nattorei shouldn't be run as a lead, especially with the EV's your'e running.

    However, your'e right for using Eruufun as an Anti-Lead (I hate running into it at least.)


    BTW @Rankurusu "It's cute ... but what is it?"

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    It looks like Scrump got into a lttle accident with the Jell-O...
  22. Hawkflight

    Hawkflight

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2010
    Messages:
    38
    Huh? Okay. Thing is, without Trick Room, can Rankurusu really have the 'speed' to be an effective Calm Mind user? I'm not sure I've wrapped my head around this one yet. Where would Recover be used? Maybe if you explained this a bit further?

    Also, I disagree, you always have to worry about testing, even in what seems like a sure deal.

    @Tyrant: XD? Who's Scrump?
  23. Jaroda

    Jaroda

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,508
    You underestimate its bulk. Go Bold 252/252 HP and Df. Combined with Magic Guard you take no LO recoil, entry hazards, sandstorm, hail, leech seed, toxic, burn, etc damage whatsoever. I've been swept by this thing because it's so damn bulky and I couldn't wear it down without being OHKO. It only took two Calm Minds as well to do it. You use CM, Recover, Focus Blast, and either Shadow Ball for perfect coverage or PSychic for STAB. Incidentally you could do three attacks for better coverage but its longevity should be your priority.
  24. Hawkflight

    Hawkflight

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2010
    Messages:
    38
    Alright. Now perhaps you can alleviate another concern of mine, related to the loss of Sp Atk EVs. Namely Fighting types. And, more specifically, the dark-type Payback they usually carry for just such instances as this. With 252 EVs in Sp Atk, he can OHKO a defensively-oriented Roopushin with Psychic, but without them it becomes a 2HKO, and wouldn't he be dead before he could get two Psychics off (or Calm Mind and a Psychic)? Oooor are you gonna say I should get this guy in and set up before the other guy even uses Roopushin (or Machamp, etc)?
  25. Jaroda

    Jaroda

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,508
    Are you factoring in Life Orb? If you want a OHKO +0 Psychic with LO then find out how many SpA EVs it takes to kill Careful 252 HP / 252 SpD as that is the bulkiest Roopushin you will ever encounter. Then put the rest in defenses. But something like 4 / 252 is way more likely.

    Because Rank is slower than Roo you will never be hit by a fully powered Payback, and with your bulk you will always survive. In fact I think it's a 3HKO.

    Anyways, the way you play Rank is immediately Psychic Roopushin and any other fighters and CM on users that can't hurt you.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)