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Gen V PU - NU in NU

Discussion in 'Other Metagames' started by Detective Dell, May 19, 2012.

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  1. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    Well for starters there's Jumpluff, what a pain in the ass to fight it is :P

    Whiscash, Swoobat, Ursaring, Vileplume, Dodrio, and many others may be useful too
  2. HouseOfWolves100

    HouseOfWolves100

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    That's like saying that a fast electric pokemon nullifies the use of water pokemon as sweepers as its main function because there is an unfavourable match up there that forces a switch!

    Yes baltoy doesn't have a favourable match up against the spin blocker, but as I said before why would baltoy be out, a good player can predict the switch; to either switch out before the ghost comes in to keep momentum on your side or will go for plays such as toxic or SR if they're not set up or eq if its a lampent switch, and then switch out on the following turn to the appropriate counter.

    If you were choosing a spinner based on the three prominent spin blockers of frillish, lampent and shedinja the only pu spinners capable of taking a hit from all three potential spin blockers an opponent might have would be tentacool, and possibly staryu and spinda (although a fire blast from lampent would probably ohko spinda), although there would be nothing tentacool and staryu would be able to do against frillish and shedinja in return, least of all use rapid spin (which would be the primary function of said rapid spinner).

    As I've already said each rapid spinner has its own comparative advantage against other rapid spinners and each person has their preferred rapid spinner. I personally like to use baltoy in PU as well as using tentacool and sandshrew less frequently. Each to their own, i'm just saying that some of the common problems to baltoy apply to other spinners, and that a ghost weakness should in no way put people of from using baltoy.

    Baltoy FTW
  3. Leafshield

    Leafshield

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    I second JoshuaMunoz's reply. I really want to get into PU, but I have no idea about what's good or what's bad, how teams are set up, and how I should set up MY team to deal with common threats. I think a Viability thread would be interesting to see and good for discussion, as it seems that this metagame has a decent number of players and the amout of available mons allows for a lot of experimentation and studies about what is viable and what is not.

    To the post above: The job of a spinner is to get hazards off the field without being completely stopped by spinblockers. All of the best spinners in upper tiers have their ways of bypassing and beating Ghost- Types, such as Tentacruel with Toxic and Scald. Personally, I would never use a spinner that has a weakness to the STAB of the type he's supposed to beat to achieve its purpose of getting a Rapid Spin off. A spinner should be able to threaten what it's trying to spin, but if your spinner can't take a STAB Shadow Ball, I would see that as a problem. Though, since as you could see by my first part of my reply, I do not play in PU at all, I don't know powerful spinblockers are or how important spinning is in the tier, so I don't have the means to say how accurate it would be to call Baltoy the best spinner in PU. On paper, I don't see it, but like I said, I don't know.
  4. Audiosurfer

    Audiosurfer LOL STAFF FAG
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    Those two things aren't the same at all. You're correct in saying that the presence of an Electric type pokemon doesn't necessarily prevent water-types on the opposing team from doing their job. The part where your argument stops working is that a spinner is a role as opposed to a type. Being forced to switch due to a type disadvantage doesn't necessarily mean your pokemon can't do their role. However, a spinblocker is a pokemon dedicated to preventing spinners from achieving their role of getting rid of hazards. While something with an advantageous type matchup might not prevent an opposing pokemon of fulfilling their roles (such as how Sturdy Rock-types can fulfill their role of getting up SR even when faced with a Grass type), a spinblocker actively tries to prevent a spinner from achieving their role, and if a spinner cannot get past a spinblocker, then it will be difficult for the spinner to achieve the role of spinning away hazards, hence why Baltoy isn't a good choice for a spinner. While it can switch out if a ghost comes in, being forced to do so every time a spinblocker comes in means that it cannot fulfill its role as a spinner and should be avoided in favor of better options for that role.
  5. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
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    Ok, I see that people are very focused on Rapid Spinners. So in order to widen our discussion, I'll ask a related question: What are the VIABLE spinblockers of the tier, and HOW are they able to prevent at least some Spinners from breaking past them and getting a Rapid Spin off?

    Personally, I see Frillish as a very good defensive spinblocker, almost similar to Misdreavus in NU. While it has very little offensive presence, it has decent longevity and defensive typing for its role. I see Staryu as a problem Spinner because of this, since it also has recovery and Thunderbolt to take down Frillish and get a pretty easy Rapid Spin off.
  6. HouseOfWolves100

    HouseOfWolves100

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    "the STAB of the type he's supposed to beat" - Are you saying the role of the spinner is to beat the spin blocker? Its the opposite the spin blocker should threaten the spinner.
    In PU unless you get a lucky match up (dependent on what spin blocker if any your opponent brings) such as tentacool against lampent, then the spinners struggle against spin blockers - sandshrew struggles against frillish and lampent, spinda struggles against lampent and would be easily dealt with by will-o-wisp frillish, anorith can't touch frillish and would be OHKO'd after rocks to a shadow ball from lampent (surviving the rock blast if eviolite, outspeeding if scarfed), delibird is walled by frillish and lampent, baltoy struggles against lampent (but could take at least 2 scalds from full from frillish or a shadow claw from shedinja).

    I agree with you that the spin blockers role is to prevent and hopefully threaten the spinner as I have explained in a reply to another post. However, all PU spinners struggle against a spin blocker and should not be assessed on their capabilities to not be walled by a spin blocker instead on their respective comparative advantages over each other and which would best fit a team you're building.

    Defensive staryu t-bolt would do little to sp def eviolite frillish, especially when frillish can recover. Even an offensive staryu would struggle. I do agree that frillish makes for an excellent sp def wall and spin blocker. I personally don't actively make it an aim to have a spin blocker on the team, or if I do run a ghost type its primary role isn't to spin block - e.g. the ghost type i often bring is gastly for its offensive capabilities, and if I get a favourable opportunity to spin block then that's a bonus.
  7. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
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    Actually, a good spinner really does want to be able to at least cripple a spinblocker, since that is the only way it can get a spin off against teams that have it. Many offensive teams don't carry a spinblocker because they're offensive power tend to make it difficult to get a free Spin off regardless. Sure, you get a Spin off most of the time, but at the cost of more than likely losing the Spinner. What's to stop the opponent from setting up again?


    That IS how the effectivness of spinners are generally determined though. Other things include how much additional benefit it has for a team.

    I don't know if Frillish is more commonly a physically defensive or specially defensive Pokemon in PU, though its typing lends itself better to physical walling. I agree that Staryu can't easily break past with its offensive set (252 SpA Life Orb Staryu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Frillish: 107-127 (34.07 - 40.44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO), but what does Frillish do back to it? Defensive Staryu isn't exactly that great because it loses what minor offensive power it has just for improving its average bulk. You are correct in that most teams don't carry a Ghost type to actively spinblock if it is an offensive team. However, for balanced and defensive teams, that is exactly why they carry a Ghost type more often than not. Like I mentioned before, offensive teams do not generally care too much if you manage to Spin away the few hazards they set up, because they would be pounding the spinner with powerful attacks. Again, they can then set up hazards once more if the setter is still around.

    Oh yeah, I should mention that you really shouldn't triple post, especially when I just demonstrated that you can reply to several posts at once.
  8. Harbinger of Peace

    Harbinger of Peace

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    I hope kanghaskan isn't still in this tier. That wouldn't be right, an S-Tier threat being in PU.
  9. Adonzo

    Adonzo

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    Hey, remember that time i said i was going to post a list of viable pokemon and then completely forgot? Well, since people have been asking for a threat list of sorts, figure I'll finally post. Again, just short descriptors of mons that stand out to me when going through the tier list.

    Show Hide
    Anorith - Arguably the best Rapid Spinner available, with 95/75 offenses, Eviolite, Stealth Rock, Swift Swim, and good offensive typing
    Arbok - Coil, good abilities
    Audino - Pink blob with Regenerator and good support movepool
    Basculin - Adaptability Aqua Jet
    Beartic - Powerful with good coverage and decent bulk
    Beedrill - Toxic Spikes + U-turn? Bit iffy here
    Beheeyem - Analytic + 125 Special Attack
    Bibarel - Simple Curse with good STABs
    Butterfree - Quiver Dance + Sleep Powder + Compoundeyes/Tinted Lens
    Camerupt - Meh defenses, but its unique typing with Solid Rock may allow it to serve as a niche check to some mons like it did Magmortar
    Charmeleon - Overlooked in NU due to Charizard's presence, this thing still has Solar Power, with 80/80 offenses, access to Eviolite, and a less pronounced Stealth Rock weakness
    Chatot - Nasty Plot with 92/91 offenses
    Combusken - Speed Boost
    Croconaw - Another overlooked mid-starter, has access to Eviolite and Dragon Dance with good physical bulk; may need to wait for Sheer Force to be relevant
    Dodrio - Vicious physical sweeper, finally in a tier in which it is not outclassed by another Normal/Flying-type
    Dragonair - Bulky Eviolite Dragon Dancer with ShedRest
    Duosion - Meh bulk even with Eviolite, but its Calm Mind and Trick Room sets are both deadly
    Fearow - Dodrio's main competition, access to Drill Run makes up for lower stats
    Flareon - Niche special wall
    Fraxure - Dragon Dance, Eviolite, 117 Attack
    Frillish - One of the few viable Ghost-types available; good special bulk with Eviolite
    Gigalith - No longer has competition from Golem, incredibly tankish stats with Sturdy and Stealth Rock
    Glaceon - Powerful Specs user, but low Speed and no Hail to abuse
    Glalie - One of the few viable Spikers
    Golbat - Fast wall with great defensive typing and movepool
    Gothorita - Shadow Tag with Eviolite
    Granbull - Unique support options in Intimidate, Thunder Wave, Heal Bell; stiff competition from Stoutland
    Grumpig - Fast special wall with Thick Fat and good Special Attack with access to Calm Mind; stiff competition from Hypno
    Huntail - Shell Smash! Like a physical/mixed Gorebyss
    Hypno - Special wall with access to Wish, Nasty Plot, and Baton Pass; stiff competition from Grumpig
    Jumpluff - Annoyer extraordinaire with high Speed and good offensive support options, not to mention a gimmicky Swords Dance set
    Kingler - Powerful double Dancer
    Klang - Shift Gear, Eviolite, one of the few viable Steel-types
    Laion - Extremely physically bulky with Eviolite, recoil-less Head Smash, one of few Steel-types
    Lampent - One of the few viable Ghost-types available; not terribly bulky, but good Special Attack, unique typing, and eventually Shadow Tag
    Leafeon - Bulky Grass-type sweeper; Sawsbuck may be gone, but still faces competition from Leavanny
    Leavanny - Grass-type sweeper; similar to Leafeon, but sacrifices bulk in favor of dual STAB
    Lickitung - Bulky Normal-type with good support options
    Linoone - Gluttony Belly Drum ExtremeSpeed!
    Luxray - Alright bulk, good defensive typing, good abilities, 120 Attack
    Machoke - Eviolite, 100 Attack, No Guard DynamicPunch; no longer faces competition from Gurdurr
    Magmar - Good special bulk with Eviolite, 95/100/93 offenses
    Mantine - Great special bulk, niche Rain sweeper
    Maractus - One of the few viable Spikers
    Masquerain - Butterfree's main competition, Quiver Dance + Baton Pass + unique coverage options + Intimidate
    Mawile - One of the few viable Steel-types, versatile
    Meganium - Bulky Grass-type; faces stiff competition from Vileplume
    Mr. Mime - Versatile Baton Passer, 100/90 offenses
    Muk - Great bulk with 105 Attack
    Murkrow - Prankster with good movepool, including reliable recovery; surprising 85/85/91 offenses
    Omanyte - Access to all entry hazards, great physical bulk with Eviolite, 90 Special Attack with good offensive typing
    Pelipper - Good physical bulk, niche Rain sweeper
    Persian - Good scouting movepool, surprising Nasty Plot sweeper
    Pikachu - Light Ball, 90 Speed
    Pupitar - Most overlooked mid-pseudo, very similar to Dragonair (ShedRest, similar bulk, 84 Attack); trades good defensive typing for great offensive typing
    Raichu - No longer faces competition from Electabuzz, versatile Electric-type sweeper
    Rampardos - 165 Attack, Mold Breaker, surprising Special capabilities with Sheer Force
    Rapidash - Premier offensive Fire-type with 100/105 offenses
    Raticate - 81/97 offenses with Guts and good movepool
    Regigigas - Fantastic 110/110/110 defenses backed by the possibility of 160/100 offenses
    Rotom-F - Great STAB coverage and support options
    Scraggy - Good bulk with Eviolite, great offensive typing
    Seadra - Great physical bulk with Eviolite, surprising 95/85 offenses
    Servine - Irrevelevant for now, but once it gets Contrary...
    Shelgon - Great physical bulk with Eviolite, Dragon Dance
    Shiftry - Versatile sweeper
    Shuckle - It's Shuckle!
    Simipour - Nasty Plot monkey...
    Simisage - Another Nasty Plot monkey...
    Simisear - Still a Nasty Plot monkey
    Slaking - Instagib button, but still lazy
    Sneasel - Versatile, but fragile, physical threat
    Solrock - Unique Rock-type, has Stealth Rock and better STABs over Lunatone
    Staryu - One of the few viable Rapid Spinners, with bonus reliable recovery
    Stoutland - Similar support options to Granbull, but with more bulk and Speed, lower Attack and no Heal Bell
    Stunfisk - Good bulk, surprising Special Attack, unique typing
    Swanna - Versatile Rain sweeper
    Swoobat - Simple Calm Mind with 114 Speed
    Tentacool - One of the few viable Rapid Spinners, with bonus Toxic Spikes and reliable recovery
    Throh - Great bulk, good Attack, Bulk Up, Circle Throw
    Togetic - Great bulk with Eviolite, good support movepool, Nasty Plot
    Tropius - Harvest hax
    Ursaring - 130 Attack status absorber with both Guts and Quick Feet
    Victreebel - Best Sun sweeper available
    Vigoroth - Versatile physical threat, bulky with Eviolite and reliable recovery
    Vileplume - Bulky Grass-type with good Special Attack
    Volbeat - Prankster Nasty Plot Baton Pass
    Wailord - Water Spout and not much else
    Walrein - I don't get it - sure, it can't Stallrein without Hail, but it's got 110/90/90 defenses, 95 Special Attack, good support options and Thick Fat; needs more love
    Whirlipede - Great bulk with Eviolite, good defensive typing, access to both Spikes and Toxic Spikes
    Whiscash - Dragon Dance, Hydration
    Wormadam-S - Easily the best Wormadam forme, which isn't saying much, but it's got decent defenses, great defensive typing, and access to Stealth Rock unlike its cousins
    Zweilous - Hustle Outrage!


    There's actually a couple overlooked NFE's on that list that I would like to see peoples opinion on - Charmeleon and Pupitar. Charmeleon still boasts Solar Power, with 80 SpA and Speed and a less pronounced SR weakness, while Pupitar can function similarly to Dragonair as a ShedRest Dragon Dancer, sacrificing a good defensive typing for a great offensive typing with EdqeQuake STAB.
  10. Infernis

    Infernis

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    I took every Pokemon in the main list in the OP and put all their stats in a spreadsheet. Fun for easy searching. Mediafire shows a preview, but you can sort by each column if you download it and open it up in Excel or Libre Office or whatever.

    If someone would compile a list of viable NFEs that aren't already accounted for, I'll throw those in. At the moment, I'm trying to figure out what the viable scarfers are to make a serious speed tier listing.
  11. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast have one on me
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    WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER

    PU won Other Metagame of the Month! This is an interesting scenario too, as with the CCAT in its concluding stages new users will be able to jump right in, unlike the slight learning curve associated with Tier Shift.
  12. Leafshield

    Leafshield

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    Hey, I was just wondering how you guys felt Noctowl was doing in PU. I didn't see him mentioned in the above post with all the mons in it and wondered how he fared.

    I was also looking through the NFE list and saw something that could be pretty effective in the current meta in the form of Marshtomp. It seems like an ideal lead and anti-lead, only having a single weakness and all the tools to beat leads like Gigalith one to one, as well as being able to set up Stealth Rocks and absorb Thunder Waves. Too bad he doesn't learn Bulk Up, though. I was thinking of a set and came up with this:

    Marshtomp @ Eviolite
    Trait: Torrent / Damp (if that's released. With it, he would be even better against Gigalith, who can't even explode on him anymore. This is better option if it is released, though.)
    EVs: 252 HP / 72 Atk / 184 Def
    Impish/Adamant Nature (+Def, -SpA)/(+Atk, -SpA)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Waterfall
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Punch / Yawn

    The goal of the set is to effectively take on common hazard leads (from what I see, Whirlipede, Gigalith, Mawile, and Omanyte could be popular) while setting up hazards of your own, while still being able to hit pretty hard. Stealth Rock is good for any team, and Marshtomp isn't cramped for moveslots, so it's a good fit. If you want to go all out attacking, Brick Break could fit there to hit Stoutland and Granbull hard, as well as doing better damage to stuff like Lairon on a balloon (loljk). Waterfall and EQ are good STABs, effectively taking care of all of the hazard leads named above, as well as other stuff common in the tier like Magmar and stuff like that. Ice Punch is preffered, as it lets you take on Jumpluff after it's put something to sleep, which is always awesome. Yawn is good too if you want to force out a spike stacker like Omanyte quickly. I'm gonna edit my post if I find something else that piques my interest.

    EDIT: Forgot to say that the Natures were basically preference. Impish lets you take EQs better from Gigalith and Lairon, but Adamant lets you put bigger dents in things if you have Wish support from Hypno later in the match.
  13. Mew2

    Mew2 Show ya moves!
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    BASCULIN people!!! This thing is a beast on PU: priority, adaptability nice speed and attack, superpower and double edge i love it. Anyways here is the set i use.
    [​IMG]
    Basculin-A (F) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Adaptability
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Waterfall
    - Aqua Jet
    - Double-Edge
    - Crunch
  14. Harbinger of Peace

    Harbinger of Peace

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    Does the PU list need an update since it's going to be OM of the Month?
  15. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast have one on me
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    PU only updates when the rest of Smogon's tiers update, which is every three months. The tiers were last updated last month.
  16. ABfloww

    ABfloww

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    it would be really nice if there was a list of pokemon in PU just like the other tiers do. I mean a proper list that is conveniently read
  17. Infernis

    Infernis

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    There you go! You can even view it online in most browsers.
  18. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
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    Guys, good news for those interested in the PU metagame. You can now go on your IRC client and join #pu to discuss this still unexplored metagame. Click #pu and go join!
  19. JoshuaMunoz

    JoshuaMunoz

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    After about 20 battles (and peaking #3 on the ladder), I want to give my thoughts of the tier. Just my experience and stuff, nothing serious.

    Let me just say this first, PU is a really, really diverse tier where almost anything is viable. Running stuff like Golbat or Maractus may seem laughable to use in upper tiers, but they really carve a niche in this tier (Golbat is a fuckin' pain to handle though). I am currently testing a bunch of Pokemon such as Rapidash and Gigalith in the tier, and they are pretty decent as nothing really outclasses them (well, nothing outclasses Rapidash in NU, but hey, it's not like its a very good mon in nu). I also am using fun gimmicks like physically defensive Golett just for the heck of it!

    The tier is still in testing mode though, because it has just been on the ladder for two days, meaning not much potential in some Pokemon have been seen on the Pokemon Showdown! ladder. But I really hope that more people will get into this tier, as it is one of the funnest tiers I have ever played in a while. I also am excited for the PU Viability Ranking thread, it's a great start for the new players to get a headstart on the tier.
  20. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    Ah yes, in a tier when mons like Lopunny or Beheeyem get their chance to shine, you know this tier is full of shenanigans, and the sheer fun factor is a huge plus in PU's favor. All hail (please don't allow Snover :P) PU!!!
  21. Ehrmantraut

    Ehrmantraut

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    aite, tried some battles and here are a few thoughts:

    - The elemental monkeys are very good in this tier and might end up being top in usage
    - Ursaring is a monster
    - y u no seismic toss audino ;-; seriously tried using audino as a cleric but with no seismic toss or night shade, i tried drain punch instead and did pitiful damage against everything.
  22. PeterTheHegemon

    PeterTheHegemon

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    Why on earth would you try drain punch over Return for Audino?
  23. Infernis

    Infernis

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    I was doing some number crunching on the IRC last night. I was trying to find a good cleanup sweeper. I might be missing a few NFE's, but this is a list of every usable Pokemon with base 93 or greater speed. (Minus Regigigas and Slaking.) They are in order of base speed.

    Persian (Nasty Plot)
    Sneasel (Swords Dance)
    Swoobat (Calm Mind)
    Purugly
    Jumpluff (Swords Dance)
    Lopunny
    Rapidash (Flame Charge)
    Emolga
    Simi[sear/pour/sage] (Nasty Plot)
    Dodrio
    Fearow
    Linoone (Belly Drum)
    Raichu (Nasty Plot)
    Basculin
    Swanna
    Luvdisc
    Raticate (Guts)
    Leafeon (Swords Dance)
    Plusle (Nasty Plot)
    Minun (Nasty Plot)
    Pachirisu
    Grovyle (Swords Dance)
    Yanma (Speed Boost)
    Unfezant

    Bolded names are Pokemon with base 90 or higher attack/SpA, which I've found is just good enough to pull off an effective sweep after a lot of wearing down of the enemy team. Notably, the only Pokemon with 90 or higher SpA in this speed tier also qualify in Attack. (Raichu and the monkeys.) In italics are Pokemon that have access to easy boosting.

    Now, there are a couple really interesting Pokemon on this list.

    The first thing that strikes me is that Raichu is basically our electric-type Samurott. Instead of Samurott's SD set, we have a Nasty Plot set. Instead of the otter's Specs set, we have a rather viable CB set with Volt Tackle. One could even use a Life Orb with SubPunch, or Quick Attack for picking off weaker targets. Unfortunately, it can't switch into many powerful attacks like Samurott can. But hey, it's PU. If it were as good as Samurott, it wouldn't be here.

    Sneasel outruns everything base 60 and down that holds a scarf, and is faster than everything without one. (Sans a speed tie with Persian.) With a SD boost, possibly obtained through Focus Sash, you have some serious danger. If the enemy tries to pick him off through priority, Sneasel has his own Ice Shard to counter with.

    Rapidash looks really darn good with a Life Orb. Flame Charge once or twice to boost speed, then start using Rapidash's stellar coverage moves (and Flare Blitz!) to wreak havoc. Morning Sun is somewhat useful for extending its life, but it has a hard time getting a chance to use it.

    The Simians have 98/98 attacking stats, so going mixed is perfectly acceptable. It's hard to forgo Nasty Plot, though, with so few fast special attackers in the tier.

    Basculin hits like a truck with Adaptability and a Choice Band. Aqua Jet and Waterfall are pretty much all you need, which is good. Because the rest of his viable movepool consists of Double Edge (which will never -I think- be more powerful than Waterfall against a target that resists water less than 4x.) and Superpower. (gimps him after using it.)

    Leafeon is actually pretty darn bulky (physically) for the tier, so finds it easy to get a boost or two. Grass isn't a stellar type for a sweeper, but the Eeveelutions are known for their wide movepools. *cough* not Flareon. *cough*

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Off of that list, we have an interesting problem named Rampardos. With 252+ speed and a choice scarf, it is only outrun by four Pokemon without scarves of their own.

    Purugly (by one point with a 252+ set.)
    Swoobat
    Sneasel
    Persian

    Whats more, it can OHKO half the tier with Head Smash. It 2HKOs the rest with one move or another, except for a few Pokemon that we brainstormed up.

    Throh can take even a Zen Headbutt so long as he gets in for free, meaning no rocks or spikes. If he uses Bulk Up on the first Zen Headbutt, he can slowly set up and throw Rampardos away with Circle Throw. This assumes that Sleep Talk picks something useful each round. (Circle Throw ends the problem immediately, Bulk Up lets him survive long enough to Rest again.) If you use max Defense instead of max Special Defense, Throh can actually switch into it, rest, and start boosting/throwing.

    Machoke does about the same thing, but has no Circle Throw and takes slightly less damage. Dynamic Punch will OHKO in return.

    Relicanth is only 3HKO'd by Head Smash or Earthquake, and can hit back with Waterfall. He needs maximum defensive investment to survive three hits.

    Max Defense Golett is only 4HKO'd by anything Rampardos tends to carry. In return, it can 2HKO with Earthquake. (75%-ish damage.) That means you can switch in and exchange blows until it dies. Probably the most solid counter there is.

    Lairon straight up cannot take an Earthquake. But if Rampardos is spamming Head Smash, this guy takes the least damage in the tier. (About 15-20%.) Even better, his Head Smash can do some crazy damage to Rampardos in return.

    So watch out for that crazy dino.
  24. PeterTheHegemon

    PeterTheHegemon

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2013
    Messages:
    7
    I don't really find trouble with Rampardos. My Shelgon usually is enough to deal with him.

    Shelgon @ Eviolite
    Trait: Rock Head
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
    Impish Nature
    - Dragon Claw
    - Wish
    - Roar
    - Protect
  25. Infernis

    Infernis

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2012
    Messages:
    768
    Ohoho, forgot about Shelgon. Shelgon can narrowly wall him too. (I think I just fought you.)

    I've been exploring the fantastic defensive core of Lairon/Golbat. Lairon can tank basically any physical hit in the tier that's not 4x effective, and even uninvested Head Smash hits pretty hard. Golbat resists fighting 4x and is immune to ground, so he can take those attacks for Lairon. Golbat is weak to Rock, Electric, Psychic and Ice. Lairon resists all of those (except Electric) and more! Super Fang can wear down the steel/ground/etc types that resist Head Smash, and Golbat can remove most of his weaknesses (and heal) with a kinda-fast-for-PU Roost.
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