Gen V STABmons

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Most of the battles are scheduled at Pokecommunity. I am there occasionally meeting up with friends, playing STABmons, etc. And, about the pre-evo / alternate form rule, I think rotom form Stabs should be accessable to all formes. If all Rotom forms get ghost type moves, then all the formes should get every other stab moves, since they are all easily interchangeable. That is my opinion on that.
I think that would make the Rotom formes too OP. In the real game, Rotom-C can't learn Hydro Pump either. So it wouldn't make sense to give it that move in STABmons.
 

SpartanMalice

Y'all jokers must be crazy
It would definitely make them OP. Access to recovery, Hydro Pump, Hurricane, Thunder, Fire Blast and Ice Beam/Blizzard, and a sleep move just makes their movepool fare too wide to be balanced. Especially if it's something like Rotom-W which can take some hits due to its typing.
 

canno

formerly The Reptile
Yeah, Rotom-A might be broken if we give it all of the moves, if only because of unpredictability. Not only that, but it doesn't make sense (Rotom-C doesn't get Hydro Pump and Rotom-W doesn't get Overheat. They loose the move upon transforming back. I'd imagine that this would be the case with the other STAB moves. All would get Ghost STAB though).
 
I agree that the Rotom forms should not share stab moves. That gives them a HUGE movepool and, like others have said, they don't keep their signature move anyway, so I don't see a reason to keep the other STAB moves
 
I also agree that the Rotom formes should not get access to all of their STABs, simply due to the huge variety of them. However, while I can't really explain why, I do believe that Meloetta should get access to Fighting STABs and Castform access to Fire, Water, and Ice STABs (no Rock, due to Forecast not having a sand form).

EDIT: Maybe because they can change form in battle? Yeah, that sounds like good reasoning. >.>
 
I agree with Adonzo because Melotta makes more sense because it is only gaining access to one more type that doesn't have sleep moves and won't make her too broken. All she really gets is priority. Rotom gets Spore, Hurricane, Thunder, and Hydro Pump. It can also use Blue Flare, Spore, and Volt Switch to force switches and gain momentum. It also has many other options that make it broken which Melotta's forms do not.

I could care less about Castform tbh base 60 everything and normal typing makes it viable but easily handles
 
Similar note, grant Psychic STABs to Darmanitan - again since it can change form mid-battle, and it gains nothing notable. Also the possibility of granting Flying STABs to Shaymin-L - while it can't switch form in battle, it also doesn't lose it's Flying moves when it changes form like Rotom does.

Really, Rotom (and Arceus, if people ever play this in Ubers) is the only form problem due to it being simply overpowering with access to so many moves.
 

SpartanMalice

Y'all jokers must be crazy
Arceus can be pretty powerful too even if each individual form has access to all STAB moves. Imagine Grass Arceus with Spore, and Arceus formes with a stronger STAB move than Judgement.

Ubers should be interesting in this.
 
Another idea I came up with lately is Heart Swap. Heart swap is normally only learned by Manaphy (I think) and steals the opponents' boosts. It even works through subs! This may be the best way to stop baton pass teams. Oh, and btw it's psychic type if someone was wondering.
 

SpartanMalice

Y'all jokers must be crazy
Yeah, I considered using it on Jirachi earlier. What better pokemon to get a move like that if not one of the most annoying ones in the game ?
 

canno

formerly The Reptile
I've used it on SpDef Celebi, and I personally like it. While Jirachi could be better because of it's Steel-type letting it resist E-Speed, Celebi can Baton Pass boost given by Heart Swap to another pokemon, which is neat. Celebi also has good bulk, so that's a thing.
 
I dunno if anyone has mentioned it, but Psychic mons have access to Heart Swap. (Sash?) Espeon or Celebi might be useful in stealing sweeps, since both have access to Baton Pass.
Just sayin' :naughty:. Though despite Espeon being quicker and having that sweet Magic Bounce, it does seem so very frail
 
Just sayin' :naughty:. Though despite Espeon being quicker and having that sweet Magic Bounce, it does seem so very frail
Oh lol didn't see your post about it. I currently use sash Espeon with heart swap. I'd love to test it out more, but everytime i get on pokecommunity there's no people from this thread there :(
 

SpartanMalice

Y'all jokers must be crazy
I think it'd be useful if the list in the first page was sorted out by where the users play and whatnot, but w/e. I usually play on Joim's Lab. I'll battle you if you're on Pokecommunity right now Manectrifier.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
I'm back from camping and I just moved today to the beautiful Columbia River Gorge area in Stevenson, WA. Looking forward to getting settled.

But back to STABmons...

Similar note, grant Psychic STABs to Darmanitan - again since it can change form mid-battle, and it gains nothing notable. Also the possibility of granting Flying STABs to Shaymin-L - while it can't switch form in battle, it also doesn't lose it's Flying moves when it changes form like Rotom does.

Really, Rotom (and Arceus, if people ever play this in Ubers) is the only form problem due to it being simply overpowering with access to so many moves.
I'm liking the Shaymin-gets-Flying-moves idea since that makes sense to me.

I don't think I'll do Darmanitan with Psychic, Meloetta with Fighting, and Castform with Ice, Fire, and Water because those formes only appear during battle whereas Shaymin can keep Flying-moves it learns while it's Shaymin-Sky.

-Basically, if it only changes forme during battle, it doesn't count towards learning that new forme's STAB moves because that type doesn't stay with it after battle. (Darmanitan [forme is a result of ability that kicks in during battle], Meloetta [forme is a result of using Relic Song], Castform [forme is a result of in-battle weather])

-If it changes forme outside of battle and can carry over that STAB, then the other forme gets access. (Shaymin-Sky -> Shaymin, similar to pre-evo carrying over STAB attacks to new evolutions)

-If it changes forme but loses its STAB attacks when it changes back, then it doesn't get access to other formes' moves. (Rotom-W can't learn Ice moves from Rotom-F because regular Rotom forgets Blizzard when Rotom-F changes back)

I hope that makes some sense... I just don't want it to look like I'm making arbitrary rules. Feel free to bring up different ideas, however.

P.S. Arceus is different, but I don't even want to touch Ubers right now.
 
Togekiss... has hurricane. and shell smash. and hyper voice. and hurricane. and shell smash. and hurricane. How has this not been discussed?
 
I am currently running 2 teams trying to integrate a SS Togekiss. One rain team to support Hurricane and the other team is weatherless with Aeroblast. Moveset: SS / Hurricane (Rain) or Aeroblast (Weatherless/Sun) / Aura Sphere / Water Pulse (Rain) or Fire Blast (Weatherless/Sun). Didnt' consider Hyper Voice but it might not be a bad idea.

I havent played many games with it (cuz I cant find many opponents) but it hasn't shined for me yet. As a double-stat boosting sweeper Metagross, Azumarill and Kyurem-B did better for me so far.

Anyway a list of pokes that really shine in this meta for me (tested and approved in a decent amount of games):
- Shell Smash Azumarill
- Shift Gear Metagross
- Dragon Dance Kyurem-B
- Transform Chansey
- Dark Void + WoW Sableye
- Defensive Gyarados with Roost
- Dual Screen Espeon (Recover + a lot of guys appreciate dual screens to setup in this meta)
- CB Aerodactyl
- Focus Sash Alakazam
- Forretress (Heal Order)
- Ferrothorn
- Poison Heal Gliscor
- Spikes Hippowdon
 

SpartanMalice

Y'all jokers must be crazy
Has anyone considered Durant ? Hustle + Shift Gear. And he's faster than Metagross as well.

So fare, Intimidate Gdos has been a fantastic defensive poke for me. It's better than Landorus-T IMO because there's no Electric priority move.

Transform Chansey will be the most common poke in this meta, guaranteed. I rarely see a Special Wall other than that, tbh.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
It looks like the list of Pokemon is starting to balance out. At first, we all assumed this would be hyper-offense-Sawsbuck-and-Keldeo-rule-the-world.

Hazards are starting to rise (Forretress, Hippowdon, Ferrothorn), defensive pivots are popular (Gliscor, Gyarados), and supporters like dual screens Espeon are back (though I assumed Espeon would abuse SS+Stored Power more).

EDIT: I think TG Speed Boost or QD Tinted Lens Yanmega is a bigger threat with Hurricane, since Togekiss will take a lot from priority after a Smash unless it runs White Herb. Even Nasty Plot/Agility Thundurus-T comes off scarier in my mind. Thoughts?
 

canno

formerly The Reptile
Has anyone considered Durant ? Hustle + Shift Gear. And he's faster than Metagross as well.
I think the problem with Hustle Durant is the fact that the high BP Steel moves have low-ish accuracy, meaning it will have to rely on Attack Order and Iron Head for reliable STAB (even then, Hustle makes them more unreliable). However, Durant could be pretty neat as a Shift Gearer (I'd use Swarm). The only problem I have with it is that it's Special Defense is worst than Cloysters, and it's Physical Defense is held back by it's low HP. Still, Durant can afford to invest in bulk, so I could see it talking a couple of physical attack.
 
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