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Gen V STABmons

Discussion in 'Other Metagames' started by Eevee General, May 25, 2013.

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  1. Mr Omgness

    Mr Omgness

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    Afaik Shedinja doesnt get Baton Pass tho.
  2. wierddude22

    wierddude22

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    [​IMG]
    Shuckle @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 Sdef / 4 HP

    Defend order
    Heal order
    Toxic
    Some other move.

    Cos screw attacking
    Alternatively, replace toxic with Power trick (?) and give it an attacking move

    Or Cosmic power Cressilia if you want to have more offense

    Another set that comes to mind
    [​IMG]
    Scizor @ Metal coat/Kings rock
    Trait Technician
    EVs: 252 Atk/ 252 Spd/ 4 HP

    Shift gear
    Gear grind
    Bullet punch
    Coverage move

    If I'm correct, Technician affects all turns in a multi-hit move. So gear grind would be two 75bp hits each turn.
  3. Sewa

    Sewa

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    Strange nobody talked about Bibarel.
    SmashPassing +4/+4/+4 in a turn is just ridicolous.
  4. Adrian Marin

    Adrian Marin

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    Yes, Bibarel is extremely dangerous. Eevee General and me were speculating about it in the lab. Strange that it wasn't posted yet since it looks broken.
  5. wierddude22

    wierddude22

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    Give it a White herb with E-speed and Aqua jet

    +4 255 Atk Bibarel Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 255 Def Shuckle: 126-150 (69.23 - 82.41%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    And i'm 99% sure that only Jellicent/Frillish resists both STABs
  6. youngjake93

    youngjake93

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    Empoleon, Ferrothorn, Shedinja, Cradily, Dialga idk if there are more.

    Oh and I've seen the use of Chilan Berry in ubers to stop extreme killer arceus. That could potentially be used to surprise kill Sawsbuck or Bibarel as well.
  7. Chaoswalker

    Chaoswalker

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    So just considering the possibilities...
    Roserade gets technician Acid Spray. 60bp and harshly drops SpD.

    Also, mixed sweeping Shift Gear Empoleon?
    Empoleon@Life Orb/ Leftovers
    Shift Gear
    Meteor Mash/Gear Grind
    Surf
    Substitute/Waterfall
  8. wierddude22

    wierddude22

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    I forgot half of those existed
    And Cradily takes neutral damage from water
    So really, only steel dual types resist it

    But then you would just baton pass to something which can deal with them


    Taunt really is going to be even more useful here to stop annoying set ups
    Also prankster liepard with thunder wave and foul play will be used more
  9. Chaoswalker

    Chaoswalker

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    Do people even use non-Storm Drain Cradily?
  10. wierddude22

    wierddude22

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    Yea okay, fair enough. I wasn't really taking abilities into question.
  11. SpartanMalice

    SpartanMalice

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    If you're gonna use Bibarel to smashpass I think I'd rather use sash on it to ensure it doesn't boost and just die, like Cloyster always does in OU. It's defenses are bad enough without the drops from Shell Smash. Extremespeed+Aqua Jet is still deadly though. Maybe Slack Off with Water Spout as well? It's base SpA isn't great, but at +4 it should do some damage.

    Also, fighting types get Bulk Up. Anything with good Special Defense can now raise their lower attacking stat. Plus, an Attack and Defense boost is a good alternative to Swords Dance, for the moves who do have it like Terrakion.
  12. youngjake93

    youngjake93

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    I'm guessing you can only battle by custom battle, so if anyone wants to battle go ahead and message me. Just made a team lol
  13. Menace13

    Menace13

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    Amazingly, one Pokémon just saved me from a drastic loss at the hands of Harbinger. Surprisingly, that Pokémon didn't use any moves she can't normally learn. Furthermore, she swept the last 4 Pokémon he had. Without further ado, I present you perfect wall in a tier filled with Water Spouts, Tail Glows, Fiery Dances, Quiver Dancers, and other Special Attackers: Latias.

    [PIMG]380[/PIMG]
    Latias (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 28 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Calm Mind
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    The EVs are fairly basic; 28 Speed to outspeed base 70s, max Physical bulk, and a Calm Mind set. You may be asking, why use RestTalk when she learns Recover and Roost? You could run a coverage move! The answer lies in her ability and the nature of the tier. In this tier, 90% of teams will run a sleep-inducer, often a Prankster sleep inducer such as Whimsicott (Spore) or Sableye (Dark Void). So what better way to wall the tier than with a Sleep Talk Pokémon? While sleeping, the only thing Latias fears is Taunt (and I suppose Torment) as she can boost and attack in her sleep to keep up with other Special attackers. As for her Physical bulk, she can take a Bug Bite from Scizor prior to a boost and 3HKO in return with just 1 Calm Mind boost. Of course, that assumes they switch in on a Dragon Pulse and Latias hits it with 2 more after that one. The point is, Latis is pretty damn bulky. Here are some calculations to show her bulk:
    Show Hide
    252 SpA Keldeo Water Spout vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias in rain: 145-171 (39.83 - 46.97%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252 SpA Keldeo Water Spout vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias in rain: 97-115 (26.64 - 31.59%) -- possible 4HKO
    252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Water Spout vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias in rain: 218-257 (59.89 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Water Spout vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias in rain: 145-171 (39.83 - 46.97%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Hurricane vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 164-192 (45.05 - 52.74%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252 SpA Abomasnow Blizzard vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 168-198 (46.15 - 54.39%) -- 5.47% chance to 2HKO
    252+ SpA Chandelure Shadow Ball vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 168-198 (46.15 - 54.39%) -- 5.47% chance to 2HKO
    252 SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 144-170 (39.56 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO


    As you can surely see, Latias, without investment, is physically bulky enough to take on a number of threats, and after just 1 boost is able to take on most of the Special Attackers in the tier.

    However, why do I call her the "perfect" wall?

    She has Levitate. Golurk's No Guard Fissure can't hit her. (Blah blah blah Gravity blah blah blah.)

    Latias cannot be hit by Fissure, avoids being OHKO'd by most of the tier, both Physical and Special, and can boost to the point where she can slowly sweep a team using bulk and boosting to overpower the enemy. She does still have trouble with strong Bug STAB attacks (Yanmega Bug Buzz, especially), but she is very useful to wall Special Sweepers who you cannot outspeed.

    (Link to the aforementioned battle.)




    Another very useful Pokémon is Heatran. Heatran is the only Pokémon in the entire game which 4x resists both of Scizor's STABs. Scizor is, as Harbinger mentioned, incredibly deadly; after a single Shift Gear, it can OHKO most of the tier, and 2 just makes it wreck everything. However, Heatran can switch in on Scizor with impunity and use Fiery Dance to boost its Special Attack, then use Doom Desire off that boosted attack with STAB to do MASSIVE damage to the foe's Pokémon. Alternatively, it can look to sweep with Autotomize (or Shift Gear if you really want to, not that you should run Physical attacks on Heatran) and Fiery Dance, Earth Power, and HP Ice, or something like that. Heatran's main niche is as the best counter to the Shift Gear sweepers who can't break through him, especially Scizor and Metagross.
  14. Mr Omgness

    Mr Omgness

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    Metagross usually runs Earthquake meaning Heatran wont be a good switch-in and I think that in a while people will reliaze that with Shift Gear they can drop Bullet Punch and run Superpower to counter Heatran and other Steels.

    Still I agree that Heatran will do very good in this meta. Not only does it counter quite some threats here, it also gets a good boost from it in Eruption, Fiery Dance & Autotomize.
  15. The Reptile

    The Reptile AMH REALLY SPHEALING IT
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    Metagross beats Heatran because Metagross can EQ (which is the most common coverage move on Metagross). Also, Superpower wrecks Heatran, OHKOing at +1 without a boosting item. While I don't think his main niche is walling the Shift Gearers (I think bulky waters do this better), he is definitely still as good as he used to be (He can deal with Sawsbuck that carry Spore over a coverage move). Personally, I'm a fan of the SpDef set, except with Searing Shot over Lava Plume for obvious reasons. It still functions more or less the same, but it has a bit more power behind it.

    Speaking of Doom Desire, would Doom Desire Magnezone be viable? It's electric STAB helps it keep Steel resists at bay, and it's HP Fire can deal with Ferrothorn. Also, it can either trap steel-types or just smash shit with Analytic boosted Doom Desire.

    EDIT: Also, I noticed Vacuum Wave isn't slashed on the threatlist Keldeo in the OP. :(
  16. youngjake93

    youngjake93

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    Magnezone and Heatran both would be hard walled by Water/Ground.
  17. The Reptile

    The Reptile AMH REALLY SPHEALING IT
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    Eh, it's not like they weren't before lol (I guess you could run HP Grass but then you get walled by Ferrothorn (Magnazone only for obvious reasons))
  18. Harbinger of Peace

    Harbinger of Peace

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    As I mentioned before, Scizor wrecks. I threw together a random team to try it. Here's a vid of Scizor, showing just how powerful gear grind is. I wasn't really playing my best in the battle, just wanted to playtest some rain threats. Anyways, here's the vid.

    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/pokecommunity-customgame-39230

    Oh, and Latias can be pretty good in this tier with all of its Calm Mind antics, but I have found that Scizor and Dragons can easily dispatch this threat. (I got your Latias that time, Menace!)
  19. The Reptile

    The Reptile AMH REALLY SPHEALING IT
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    Not to be a bother, but where are you guys playing these matches (like, what server?)? I want to get some matches to lol :P
  20. wierddude22

    wierddude22

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    One pokemon that has caught my eye earlier is Flareon, who with 130 Atk, really needed those physical fire type moves (There's probably better users of this set) and could be a potential Sawsbuck counter

    [​IMG]
    Flareon @ Charcoal/Choice scarf
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP

    Flame charge
    Flare blitz
    Return
    Superpower/Iron tail

    Or you could go with a guts set and run facade instead of return

    255- Atk Flareon Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 255 Def Sawsbuck: 350-414 (115.89 - 137.08%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    But with its 60 Def and 65 Spd, it may have trouble countering Sawsbuck without a scarf. (And even then it may have trouble)
  21. The Reptile

    The Reptile AMH REALLY SPHEALING IT
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    I think in a Flame Charge set, you're better off running Sacred Fire over Flare Blitz. While the latter is stronger, it is also impossible to sweep with, since Flareon has low HP, and thus cannot take a lot of recoil. Sacred Fire is still strong but doesn't have the nasty recoil, and it can also Burn, which compliments it's good Special Defense. However, on a Scarf set, you're much better off running V-Create.

    However, Darmanitan is probably better than Flareon with this set, as he has higher speed and attack, not to mention Sheer Force (Sheer Force Sacred Fire is strongth. Flare Blitz is also an option, but even with the higher HP I would use Sacred Fire) and an actual movepool.

    Speaking of Flareon, I don't think we should restrict STAB of prevos. This would give the Eeveelutions much more viability. The only problem I see with this is Shell Smash Azumarill, but tbh, I think it's manageable, considering we have Shell Smash / Belly Drum Sawsbuck running around. And no, the Rotom forms should NOT get each other's moves imo. It doesn't make sense like the prevo thing does, and it would make the Rotom forms a bit super scary, considering they all now have BoltBeam, reliable recovery, and Spore, not to mention Fire-type attacks to roast Ferro and friends.
  22. Mr Omgness

    Mr Omgness

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    I had a first thought about Flareon as well, but...

    Flareon is still as sucky as it always was because of its terrible speed and low HP and is hellz no a counter to Sawsbuck. With pitiful 65/60 physical defenses a +2 Extremespeed will make quick work if it. And Scarf gets outspeed by Chlorophyll anyway.

    The only viable thing it can do is to run SS/BD and Extremespeed itself meaning pre-evo STABs are taken into consideration. And still I think there are about 10 pokes who can do this better.

    I know a lot of people really wish Flareon could shine but it has so many things against it that even most OMs dont make it OU material: shallow movepool, bad speed stat (not low enough for TR) and a pitiful HP stat.
  23. Death Phenomeno

    Death Phenomeno I'm polite so just for clarity, when I'm cross I
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    Why not just use Autotomize, then? It also has the added effect of lowering Low Kick's damage if someone were to use it…
  24. 725roy

    725roy

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    After playing around with this meta, I've found some threats that haven't been mentioned otherwise. I've made a few different teams, and have found some pretty good cores, but Still need to perfect them. That said, allow me to show off some things I believe could hold their own here.

    [​IMG]
    Magic Guard @ Life Orb
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Modest Nature
    - Calm Mind / Luster Purge
    - Stored Power / Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast
    - Psystrike

    This Reuniclus set allows the user to either set up with CM (which is preferred) or wear down the foes with a Luster Purge, which has a 50% Sp. Def lower chance. However, I personally run Luster Purge simply because of the fact that I can get a second attacking attack in an already heavy offensive metagame. Following the first attack, whether it's CM or Luster Purge, comes either Stored Powerrrr, or Shadow Ball which is the necessary coverage move. Stored Powerrr should come as no surprise if you plan on using Calm Mind over Luster Purge, since you get the power boosts based on how many buffs you have set, while Shadow Ball is mainly coverage against the possibility of an Alakazam, or maybe even Gengar, and of course, other Reunicli (Plural of Reuniclus). Third, you have the ever inaccurate Focus blast, which can be used against any steel type, dark type, rock type, and Ice Kyub, because who uses any other Ice Type in HO? Lastly we have Psystrike, which is probably the crowning jewel of this whole thing. You see, with STAB, Life Orb and the already immense power of Psystrike, Reuniclus becomes a supreme glacier of a 'mon. The Modest nature is used to get MORE POWER, and honestly, speed will not benefit this thing at all. Naturally, since he's got the big Magic Guard, Life Orb damage won't do jack to thing mighty glacier.

    Here are some damage calculation, just for fun! (Each one has a Basic, no boost version, and a CM version)
    Show Hide
    0+ SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Psystrike vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Sawsbuck: 250-294 (75.98 - 89.36%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +1 0+ SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Psystrike vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Sawsbuck: 374-441 (113.67 - 134.04%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    0+ SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Psystrike vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 408-484 (125.92 - 149.38%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +1 0+ SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Psystrike vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 611-720 (188.58 - 222.22%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    0+ SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Psystrike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 204-242 (63.94 - 75.86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +1 0+ SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Psystrike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 305-360 (95.61 - 112.85%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
    0+ SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Psystrike vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyurem-B: 187-220 (47.82 - 56.26%) -- 83.2% chance to 2HKO
    +1 0+ SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Psystrike vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyurem-B: 277-328 (70.84 - 83.88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    0+ SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Psystrike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 224-265 (67.67 - 80.06%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +1 0+ SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Psystrike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 335-395 (101.2 - 119.33%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    0+ SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Psystrike vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus-T: 250-294 (83.61 - 98.32%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +1 0+ SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Psystrike vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus-T: 372-438 (124.41 - 146.48%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    0+ SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Psystrike vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Ursaring: 235-278 (72.98 - 86.33%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +1 0+ SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Psystrike vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Ursaring: 352-417 (109.31 - 129.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    0+ SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Psystrike vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Machamp: 447-530 (117.32 - 139.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +1 0+ SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Psystrike vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Machamp: 671-790 (176.11 - 207.34%) -- guaranteed OHKO



    Who knows? Maybe this little blob of pure joy could become something!
  25. qazwerty99

    qazwerty99

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    I think Arcanine has potential as a threat, due to it's nice power, good bulk with intimidate and sacred fire. Arcanine seems like the best sacred fire abuser, as it has coverage that makes it hard to switch into, and can fish for burns with sacred fire. It also speed ties with sawsbuck, and can hit it with extreme speed if it's set up and sacred fire/close combat if it hasn't.
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