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General Analysis: Pokemon XD (In Progress)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by zfs, Dec 30, 2005.

  1. zfs

    zfs Everything old is new again
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    What is Pokemon XD?

    Pokemon XD is a Gamecube game that was released fairly recently. It's the sequel in spirit to Colloseum. Besides being a 3D battle sim, it allows you to raise pokemon that are found in the game. These pokemon can be corrupted by shadow, to my knowledge, and when ‘purified’, learn a new move that they couldn’t learn before. Also, XD features a man who will teach Mew some moves he couldn’t learn before, and three new move tutors; Selfdestruct, Sky Attack and Nightmare. To see a list of these moves, go to “View Current Mods’ under ‘Version’ in the NB Team Builder.

    Why don’t the new moves work with some moves?

    The new moves gained from purification are considered special moves, and as such, will not work with egg moves and NYPC/Box moves. However, some pokemon in XD that you can catch start off having one of their egg-only moves on them, meaning that these will work with the new purification moves. At the current moment, not all of these working egg moves are known; we are doing our best to find all of them and make this XD update 100% accurate. In addition, the new XD move tutors have only been tested on pokemon that can be caught/raised in XD, so some non-XD pokemon may be able to use these tutors. Again, we are doing our best to discover which tutors will work with these non-XD pokemon. Don’t worry, though; most of these moves/restrictions don’t affect competitive play.

    Now, a lot of the new XD moves are semi-useless/only good in 2v2, and since this is only covering competitive 1v1, we won’t cover those moves. These include helping hand, follow me, Refresh for the most part, and a few others. So, what new moves should you be aware of? Let’s go over the Pokemon that got significant upgrades.

    Zapdos:

    Starting with the big winner from XD, Zapdos gets three new moves, and two of them are very useful. His new moves are: Extrasensory, Baton Pass, and Metal Sound. Now, all three legendary birds get Extrasensory, which isn’t very useful, but the other two moves are potentially game-breaking. Zapdos with Metal Sound has an obvious advantage; Zapdos is a special pokemon and Metal Sound lowers special defense. As Hipmonlee pointed out, Spikes is a huge help to this; pokemon will be switching out frequently to rid themselves of their special defense lowering, and Spikes will put a nice dent in them. Plus, most things that can resist spikes (fliers and levitaters, that is) take a nice hit from Zapdos anyway. A common Metal Sound Zapdos might look like this:

    Zapdos @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: A lot of Speed and Sp. Atk
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)/Timid Nature(+Spd, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Metal Sound
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Substitute/Rest

    This Zapdos will wear down switch-ins with Thunderbolts and Hidden Powers while discouraging special walls from staying in. How do you counter this? The best Counter is Regice, with his high special defense and trait which protects him from Metal Sound. Without Regice, however, you will just need slick prediction and you’ll have to hope your special wall can take a thunderbolt with -2 special defense.

    The other new move, Baton Pass, is even more useful in my opinion. The Baton Pass Zapdos will most likely look like this:

    Zapdos @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: Lots of Speed and some HP and Special Attack here
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Baton Pass
    - Agility/Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Substitute

    This Zapdos will try to pass a substitute and/or an agility or two to a powerful sweeper like Thick Club Marowak or Medicham. These pokemon can also hit Regice very hard, and with Metal Sound Zapdos running around, Regice will be a common switch in to Zapdos. This Zapdos will also be able to baton pass to Dugtrio, which will trap anything that it is passed into, and can possibly ko them. How do you counter this? Well, it’s not easy. There is no guaranteed counter; things that can take a Thunderbolt and hit Zapdos hard are good choices, as are Psuedohazers. However, the two most common psuedohazers, Skarmory and Suicune, can’t take a Zapdos Thunderbolt, so you will need to be creative. Besides that, if Zapdos ever needs to pass without a sub up, try a move that will kill the recipient of the baton pass. Jolteon is also a good counter because he can do the same thing; that is, Substitute up and Baton Pass it's own sub/agility. Jolteon has the ability to outspeed Dugtrio and pass to a pokemon who can handle it, so use that to your advantage.

    Zapdos receives Sky Attack thanks to the new move tutor, and this could be used on a CB Zapdos set, but he already has Drill PEck, which is much better, so let's move on, shall we?

    Moltres:

    The first trio of legendary birds got a big upgrade in XD, and Moltres probably fared second best, though it’s certainly debatable. Anyway, besides Extrasensory which we already know is bad, Moltres got Will-O-Wisp and Morning Sun, and both can be very useful. In fact, they are feasible in the same set. Back before XD, Moltres really need Rest to be competitive, and he tended to use Sleep Talk with it so that he could do something to the water or rock type (or Salamence or Snorlax) switch in. Now, he can use a set more like this:


    Moltres @ Leftovers ** Moltres
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 60 HP / 252 Spd / 196 SAtk
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast/Flamethrower
    - Hidden Power [Grass]/Will-O-Wisp
    - Morning Sun
    - Sunny Day

    EVs don’t have to be exactly that, but please focus on making it strong in Special Attack and fast enough to outspeed the 299 pokes (and the ones that go 300 to beat the 299s as well). Sunny Day not only increases the healing power of Morning Sun, but it makes Moltres’ Fire Blasts extremely powerful. Flamethrower for the luck challenged, of course. Hidden Power Grass is great to nail pokemon like Tyranitar (who wrecks your Sunny Day as well) and Swampert, but Will-O-Wisp will put a serious dent in Snorlax’s ability to hurt you, as well as any other pokemon switching in who depends on physical attacks. The best counter for this set is probably still going to be Blissey with Thunder-Wave, since Moltres can’t rest off the paralysis. Flash Fire pokemon will also take little damage from this set, and ones like Arcanine can hit Moltres hard physically. Overall, you need to remember that Moltres isn’t Zapdos; it can’t stay in versus most of its counters. However, pass this thing a few calm minds and watch it burn everything that switches into it to a pile of unrecognizable ashes.

    Articuno:

    The last (well, uno is one so technically first), but not LEAST, of the elemental birds is of course Articuno, the much maligned Icy Flier that always seems to be good, but just not quite good enough for people to use it. So what did he get? Once again, besides that Extrasensory garbage that we won’t be using, Articuno got two nice utility moves that nicely compliment his stallish/utility style of play: Heal Bell and Haze. So, how do we utilize these moves?

    With Heal Bell, Articuno becomes one of the better defensive Bellers in the game. Sure, Celebi is better, and Blissey is better at walling all special attacks, but Articuno has very good defenses, and pressure to boot; his only downside is poor defensive typing. An Articuno with Heal Bell might look like this:

    Articuno @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 124 HP / 136 Def / 192 SAtk / 56 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Heal Bell
    - Ice Beam/Substitute

    Classic Resttalking beller, you can bell the teams status back to normal, then rest yourself to full health and hope that Sleep Talk chooses Heal Bell to wake you up early. Ice Beam is, as always, Articuno’s best offensive move, and you should have enough SpAtk EVs to do decent damage to things. Unfortunately, this is wrecked by Metagross and doesn’t exactly like things like Thunder(bolt) Regice either. For pure stalling, you can use Substitute as well to keep you alive longer/stall more with Pressure, but I never like using a pokemon with no offensive moves, especially since Articuno packs a pretty strong STAB Ice Beam. Waters can easily switch in but none will do very much, I’d suggest using Spikes on just about any team with Articuno on it.

    Haze is a pretty nice move too, and Articuno is one of the faster pokemon that gets it (and can actually take a hit). However, all you’ll be able to Haze are things that don’t raise speed/lower speed, aka a Snorlax’s Curses or Suicune’s Calm Minds, as well as some assorted Swords Dances. A good set for Haze would be:

    Articuno @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 124 HP / 136 Def / 192 SAtk / 56 SDef (these are the EVs from the other set, generally use something like this with a good defensive emphasis, put more speed if you have a certain thing you want to be faster than so that you can Haze it and more/less SpAtk at your own preference).
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Haze
    - Rest
    - Substitute/Reflect/Toxic
    - Ice Beam

    Rest is really needed on just about any Articuno set, given his defensive nature, and like I said, he has a nice STAB attack in Ice Beam so it would be a shame to waste it. Besides that, Substitute is as always great for stalling and abusing pressure, Reflect can be cool because a Hazing Articuno is more of a utility choice anyway, and Toxic for indirect damage if you want to go that route. Again, Watch for Metagross and things of that ilk; most things that can resist Ice Beam and pack a Rock/Steel move spell big trouble for Articuno, and he needs to avoid these as a first priority.

    Articuno also gets a fourth new move, Sky Attack, from the new move tutor, but this is pointless unless you are running a gimmick CB Articuno set, so like Extrasensory, you can ignore it.

    Altaria:

    Altaria, a very underrated UU pokemon in my opinion, was mostly used as a pseudo-staller in 200 (well, by me and a few other people), and in 386 is a rarely-used UU Dragon Dancer or Hazer. Well, now that he has received the move Heal Bell from XD, he is probably the best UU beller out there. It’s got great special defense, above average defense and okay HP, but best of all: Natural Cure! Altaria is a flying dragon like Salamence, so he has a huge weakness to Ice obviously, and Rock moves aren’t very nice either. Probably the best Altaria moveset would be this:

    Altaria (M) @ Leftovers ** cloudy boudy
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 188 HP / 12 Def / 176 Spd / 96 SAtk / 36 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Rest
    - Heal Bell
    - Perish Song
    - Fire Blast/Filler

    Not very sure on the EVs, I just made those really quick for a team I’m using, probably give it more Defense and Special Defense and less speed on this type of moveset. Natural Rest is obvious; it doesn’t have recover, but it can Rest and then switch out and wake up thanks to Natural Cure, which is great. Perish Song is a nice p-haze move and just cool in general, and it’s nice to have some sort of attacking (or status) move to round it out. Can’t stand up to a lot of the big OU attackers, but if you give it a more Defensive spread it can take it well enough to rest it off, at least.



    This is what I have so far, I'm going to continue on this in Word, while I'm doing that you guys can make some corrections/suggestions/additions.
  2. Vulcan Fury

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    Looks good, do Moltres or Articuno next 8)
  3. ToP

    ToP

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    looks good so far, just be sure to mention selfdestruct snorlax :)
  4. Hipmonlee

    Hipmonlee Have a rice day
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    The best counter for sub pass Zapdos should be Raikou or Jolteon.. Of course the key to beating that is having twave, but HP less Zapdos will be much less versatile..

    Also note that metal sound will of course be most useful with spikes! Otherwise having two Zapdos counters will basically result in Zapdos being only as useful as it already is without metal sound..

    Have a nice day.
  5. zfs

    zfs Everything old is new again
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    Jolteon yes, Raikou not as much, you're going to try and pass to Dugtrio and kill it anyway.
  6. BARILLIAN

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    imo mention how baton pass chains will be even worse with bp zap running around, as well as celebi/zapdos/vaporeon will be fucking TOUGH to beat, especially since you have 3 slots left and put in duggy, something physical, normal resist, blissey etc.
  7. Amazing Ampharos

    Amazing Ampharos
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    Do you mind if I pitch in? No? Good.

    Snorlax:

    Snorlax really benefitted a lot from XD. No, it's not from getting Refresh and Fissure when you purify the Shadow Snorlax. Snorlax gets his big boost from the Selfdestruct move tutor. Snorlax selfdestructing? Well, Selfdestruct ordinarily has 200 base power and Explosion ordinarily sits at 250. However, Snorlax's normal STAB makes Selfdestruct base 300. That's more powerful than Explosion. Factor in Snorlax's base 110 attack, and you have a winner. That's around a metasplode. Oh yeah, there's something about doubling all those numbers if I recall correctly, but no movedex actually bothers itself with going into details...

    Snorlax@choice band
    Selfdestruct
    Return/Body Slam/Double-Edge
    Earthquake
    Shadow Ball

    Yeah, Focus Punch is an option, but Skarm won't like being blown up on and will stay away from you. You opponent will cry when they see Snorlax as this thing is a beast, and for all they know it's a curselax. This becomes quite the prediction game. Really nothing can safely switch into an unknown lax post-XD as most teams die when their Skarm or Sui dies/all but dies. Even once this thing is known it's quite hard to stop. It's plays a lot like metagross who tanks specially instead of physically. This thing pairs ridiculously well with metagross as one blows up on their physical tank and then the other sweeps. Just don't get too SD happy and blow yourself up on a Gengar or Dusclops.

    Lapras:

    Hey Lapras, you're so cool. Why aren't you used more in OU? Well, now you will be. Heal Bell is a godsend for the unloved water/ice type. It has base 130 HP and base 95 special defense with two awesome special STABs. The big problem with HBers is that they always couldn't attack. Lapras has a double STAB on two nice types and some decent SA. No 50% recovery move still hurts, but hey, what can you do?

    Lapras@leftovers
    Ice Beam
    Thunderbolt
    Rest
    Heal Bell

    One option is to go this route. Boltbeam hurts stuff and rest keeps you alive. HB works wonders as your team stays status free without having to use something like Blissey that just begs to be set up on. This is best paired with another beller for double status clearing, especially each other's rests. Seriously, this plus, say, a HB Dragonite or Ampharos and your team now has some serious status clearing without having to give up so much attacking power.

    Lapras@leftovers
    Ice Beam/Surf
    Sleep Talk
    Rest
    Heal Bell

    Yes it's this old game. We all get the point. One attack hurts, but then again so does randomly waking up during sleep. This thing is easy to wall but hard to kill, much like Milotic.

    Ampharos:

    Ampharos gets even cooler with XD. Amphy is still quite UU with his low speed and whatnot, but he does get one nice move Heal Bell(as opposed to Tail Glow which he should have gotten, but now I'm just bitter). Why does it matter; Amphy still sucks? Well, with Heal Bell Ampharos plays like a weaker Lapras with a better type. He still tanks off the special hits with no special weaknesses and some pretty solid stats(better than most UUs are going to show), and now he can bell to support the team. Just be sure to bring the Dugtrio repellant.

    Ampharos@leftovers
    Heal Bell
    Focus Punch
    Thunderbolt
    Substitute/Reflect/Light Screen/HP Ice/HP Grass/Twave

    Ampharos is quite the anti-metagame Pokemon. FP nails Blissey and Regice hard, and Heal Bell undoes all the twaving and WoWing enemy tanks have been doing. Amphy's SA is not to be underestimated; that tbolt puts a hurting on just about anything but a premiere special tanks, all of which are conveniently weak to fighting. Ppassing sychs nicely with HB and makes him a big support Pokemon for the team. It also gives him a big hand against Regice as with a screen up Regice isn't going to be doing much to anyone. Amphy was never the kind of guy to do everything himself so always think about this in context of a support Pokemon. It's still a UU Pokemon trying to make it in a OU world.

    Ampharos@leftovers
    Thunderbolt
    Heal Bell
    Sleep Talk
    Rest

    We all saw it coming. Resttalkbelling with a powerful attack thrown in. Amphy can pull it off. The downside is that his stats don't tank as well as they could, but he is rather extreme in terms of attacking and electric is a seriously awesome STAB that last I checked nothing playing tankishly gets. Watch out for Dugtrio, but if you can clear the field of that menace, this thing will become a pain to deal with. Blissey will not come in on Amphy until it's seen the whole set and either way it will not be able to do much of anything to you either.
  8. zfs

    zfs Everything old is new again
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    Okay I was typing all of those but whatever, also Selfdestruct/Explosion halve the opponent's defense.
  9. Maestro_Arena

    Maestro_Arena

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    Dragonite@Leftovers
    -Haze
    -Heal Bell
    -Two attacks more
  10. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
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    For the uber metagame

    Lugia with Psycho Boost (!!)
    Mewtwo with selfdestruct (?)
  11. cookie

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    Steelix with Roar can easily handle Subpass Zapdos, unless it carries something gay like HP Water/Fire...
  12. Mekkah

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    I think Will-o-Wisp is far more useful than Morning Sun on a Moltres set, a lot of Rock Slides and Snorlaxen are waiting to kick it's ass, which Morning Sun won't do much against.
  13. Amazing Ampharos

    Amazing Ampharos
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    Yeah, I knew it did, but I couldn't remember exactly how it worked. Did you know SD CB max attack adamant lax has a chance at OHKOing standard Skarm(it's close)? I didn't mean to steal your thunder, but I just wanted to throw those out there. Take what's useful and ditch the rest.

    Also, Psycho Boost Lugia will see no use at all as it is useless. Lugia is a tank, the tank actually. Dropping SA to attack is very bad for it. Also, Psychic is widely resisted in uber anyway. I think featherdance is more exciting personally.
  14. 0rz

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    IMO Sing Marowak deserves a mention, that thing could be potentially very, very cool.
  15. cook

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    you did not just say that. wait no nevermind it would be cool but imo it wouold suck :(
  16. 0rz

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    Eh, why not. Sing isn't great or anything but it could be fun and moderately unexpected. Also, if they switch in their physical tank/water, and it gets put to sleep, what takes the next hit?
  17. Tazzler

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    I don't know if you guys figured this out already, but here goes......
    I'll help. Since I completed XD two times, I know what egg moves the shadow pokemon know. This goes for the evos, too.

    Vulpix- (Can learn) Heat Wave
    Paras-false swipe
    Primeape-reversal
    weepinbell-magical leaf
    grimer-shadow punch
    shellder-take down
    exeggutor-ancient power
    scyther-silver wind
    magmar-cross chop
    electabuzz-cross chop
    pinsir-false swipe
    snorlax-curse/fissure
    dragonite-dragon dnace
    cyndaquil-reversal
    chikarita-ancientpower
    totodile-crunch
    ledyba-psybeam
    spinarak-signal beam
    pineco-pin missle
    teddiursa-metal claw
    swinub-ancientpower/mud shot
    poochyena-poison fang
    shrooomish-false swipe
    sableye-recover
    mawile-false swipe
    salamence-dragon dance
  18. Aeroblacktyl

    Aeroblacktyl The pizza doesn't scream in the oven! LOL!
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    XD is as overrated as Chaos.

    *whistles*
  19. Maestro_Arena

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    Everybody forgets that Dragonite now is beller and hazer :(
  20. Hemp Man

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    Haze is a egg move, so its an illegal iirc.
  21. zfs

    zfs Everything old is new again
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    Dude, thanks a ton. Adding this to the XD list and sending it to Vin so he can update. BTW, I just got home from my vacation yesterday so I should update this Guide today.
  22. Maestro_Arena

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    Scizor with Morning Sun will be a very sexy baton passer/physical sweeper.
  23. cookie

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    nay sir
    baton pass is a breeding move and therefore illegal with morning sun
  24. Maestro_Arena

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    Scizor@Leftovers/Salac Berry
    -Swords Dance
    -Morning Sun
    -HP Steel
    -Silver Wind

    Who said Baton Pass?
  25. Doomsday

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    also lol, special sweeper?

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