1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

General Analysis: The 2vs2 Metagame

Discussion in 'Archives' started by RicepigeonKKM, Dec 30, 2005.

  1. RicepigeonKKM

    RicepigeonKKM Wait, who?
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    2,354
    So you got tired of OU, but feel like doing something besides oobers, UU, and NU? I know it dont look like much, but have you considered 2vs2?

    2vs2, that ungodly mode installed in RS and whored in both Colosseum and XD. The following are mostly the 2vs2 OU pokes, but for simplicity's sake because 2vs2 doesnt have a fully established tier list, these are the guys you are guaranteed to see at least 1 of in the 2vs2 metagame:

    Aerodactyl, Alakazam, Blissey**, Clefable, Claydol, Deoxys-E*, Dugtrio**, Dusclops, Exeggutor, Gengar, Gorebyss**, Gyarados, Heracross, Jolteon, Jumpluff, Kingdra, Ludicolo, Metagross, Minun**, Moltres, Omastar, Plusle**, Regice, Regirock, Salamence, Shedinja, Shiftry, Slaking, Starmie, Swellow, Togetic, Umbreon, Zapdos.

    * - Deoxys-E's oober status is still being debated.

    ** - Blissey, Dugtrio, Gorebyss, Plusle & Minun are not used as much as the others, but will make cameos once in a while.

    Whats in 2vs2?

    Alot of stuff you can expect in 2vs2, but the dominant strats as of now include: weather, explosion, 2x Rock Slide, Helping Hand, and Follow Me. While a few Pokemon in 2vs2 have wall or tank-like abilities, 2vs2 is primarily a "Sweep & Run" metagame. Because of the ability of two Pokemon ganging up on one (and sometimes vice-versa with stuff like Earthquake and RockSlide), walls and tanks have little to no use, although alot of support pokemon are always there to take that role.

    The 2vs2 Threats

    Threat #1: The Exploders

    Explosion is by far the most overrated and overpowered move in 2vs2. The attack hits everything on the screen for 500 base damage, OHKO'ing everything except Ghosts, Steels, and a few Rocks. Because of this, many people started to use Protect and even developed this further by using an ally with Endure or Protect. Most teams with an exploder will almost always carry a ghost type, either Gengar, Dusclops, or Shedinja.

    Metagross @; Lum Berry
    EVs: 6 hp, 252 Atk, 252 spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Agility
    - Meteor Mash
    - Earthquake/Rock Slide
    - Explosion

    This right here is the most common exploder in 2vs2 today. Its not much different than a 1vs1 Metagross, only max speed lets Agility make its speed on par with Ludicolo.

    Regirock @; Lum Berry/Leftovers/Quick Claw
    EVs: 252 hp, 252 Atk, 6 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Curse
    - Explosion
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide/HP Rock

    Acts as sort of a Physical tank, and is rather slow. Some people will give it Choice Band instead so it can explode immediately because of its speed, but I don't recommend this.

    Threat #2: The Swift Swimmers and Chlorophyllists

    Another popular 2vs2 strat is abusing the weather to one's liking. This is the most dangerous 2vs2 strat, imo, and every team needs to expect these Pokemon.

    Zapdos @; Lum Berry/Leftovers
    EVs: 6 hp, 252 Atk, 252 spd
    Timid or Modest Nature
    - Rain Dance
    - Thunder
    - Light Screen
    - HP [Ice]

    Zapdos is only the setup poke, who saves time for the Swift Swimmers. Light Screen helps as a counter measure against other weather combos, especially against Heat Wave and Surf, which is seen pretty often, but not as much as their stronger, single-target, counterparts. Timid lets you outspeed Jolly Salamence, if not put you directly on par with its speed.

    Moltres @; Lum Berry/Leftovers
    EVs: 6 hp, 252 Atk, 252 spd
    Modest Nature
    - Sunny Day
    - Fire Blast
    - Mimic/Heat Wave/Protect/HP Flying
    - Mimic/Heat Wave/Protect/HP Flying

    Nearly the same as Zapdos, only with Sunny Day instead of Rain Dance. Mimic Solarbeam for your ally if you want, Heat Wave for a potential Double KO, and Protect if you want your eggy or Shiftry to go BOOM.

    Kingdra @; Lum Berry
    EVs: 82 HP, 176 spd, 252 SA
    Modest Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - HP Grass
    - Protect/Surf

    In the rain, this thing gets 500 speed, outspeeding everything save Ninjask, which is rarely used in 2vs2 if at all. Surf is pretty much the same as Heat Wave, but in rain. Most of the time, you'll be sticking to Hydro Pump as your main weapon.

    Ludicolo @; Lum Berry
    EVs: 148 HP, 108 spd, 252 SA
    Modest Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Giga Drain
    - Fake Out/Surf

    Does exactly what Kingdra does, but better, imo. Its resistant to Earthquake and absorbs special hits better, but is slower and is owned by HP Flying. Fake Out stops anything in its tracks except for possibly Alakazam.

    Exeggutor @; Lum Berry
    EVs: 38 HP, 220 spd, 252 SA
    Modest Nature
    - Solar Beam
    - HP Ice
    - Sleep Powder
    - Explosion/Psychic/Protect

    Eggy can do alot before it goes. HP Ice because Moltres has Fire and you're better off trying to counter Salamence with Ice. When Eggy can't do an OHKO rampage anymore, or just when his rampage is about to stop, finish with Explosion and watch sparks fly.

    Shiftry @; Lum Berry
    EVs: 120 Atk, 136 spd, 252 SA
    Mild Nature
    - Solar Beam
    - HP Ice
    - Fake Out
    - Explosion

    Ludicolo is to Kingdra as Shiftry is to Exeggutor. Able to Fake Out helps alot, and better attack and speed means better Explosion use.


    Threat #3: The Speed Demons

    These things are your openers and have one purpose: to destroy your opponent's openers with hard hitting and/or other methods.

    Deoxys-E @; Choice Band
    EVs: 238 HP, 252 Atk, 20 spd
    Adamant Nature
    - HP Flying/Aerial Ace
    - Rock Slide/HP Rock
    - Shadow Ball
    - Psychoboost/Double-Edge/Superpower/Extremespeed

    One of the few Choice Banders I'd recommend in 2vs2 play, and a great opener. Rock Slide is great for the 2x Rock Slide opening strat, which basically hits both Pokemon with an ungodly flinch rate on both of them.

    Aerodactyl @; Lum Berry
    EVs: 6 HP, 252 Atk, 252 spd
    Jolly Nature
    - HP Flying/Aerial Ace
    - Rock Slide/HP Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Protect

    Aerodactyl, the 2nd fastest opener with Deoxys-E being the first. You could go Choice Band here, but then you get fucked by Explosion.

    Jolteon @; Lum Berry
    EVs: 6 HP, 252 Atk, 252 spd
    Timid Nature
    - Thunderbolt/Thunder
    - Rain Dance/Helping Hand
    - HP Ice
    - Protect/Thunder Wave

    You can use this as a Rain Dance opener if you'd like, or as a fast Helping Hander if it can't do anything else. I'd go with the rain set, imo.

    Plusle @; Salac Berry
    EVs: 6 HP, 252 Atk, 252 spd
    Modest Nature
    - Thunderbolt/Thunder
    - HP Ice
    - Endure
    - Thunder/Growl/Charm/Agility

    Minun @; Salac Berry
    EVs: 6 HP, 252 Atk, 252 spd
    Modest Nature
    - Helping Hand
    - Thunderbolt
    - Charm/Endure/HP Grass/Rain Dance
    - Charm/Endure/HP Grass/Rain Dance

    Don't laugh. Plusle and Minun, if done right, can seriously own teams. You basically have them Endure if you see something like Aerodactyl that will EQ them, and Salac activates. I laugh every time I see someone with them use level balance, because they honestly do not need it.

    Slaking @; Lum Berry
    EVs: 6 HP, 252 Atk, 252 spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Bulk Up/Protect
    - Earthquake
    - Return/Double-Edge
    - Shadow Ball/Rock Slide/HP Rock

    An old 2vs2 Pokemon, but is nearly unstoppable once set up. Skill Swap Traunt off of this thing with your ally while Slaking Bulks Up and its pretty much gg. Best Skill Swappers to use imo are Alakazam or Gengar.

    Gengar @; Lum Berry
    EVs: 6 HP, 252 Atk, 252 spd
    Modest or Timid Nature
    - Skill Swap
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Punch
    - Shadow Ball/Destiny Bond/Explosion

    Fulfills the role of both a sweeper and a support poke, as it can Skill Swap onto a Slaking, giving it the awesome Levitate ability.

    Threat #4: The Supporters

    These Pokemon are pretty much those that can't attack in 2vs2, but can assist those that can. These pokemon are meant to buy you time, or shorten it. It depends on what you use.

    Gengar @; Lum Berry
    EVs: 6 HP, 252 Atk, 252 spd
    Modest or Timid Nature
    - Skill Swap
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Punch
    - Shadow Ball/Destiny Bond/Explosion

    Fulfills the role of both a sweeper and a support poke, as it can Skill Swap onto a Slaking, giving it the awesome Levitate ability.

    Clefable @; Leftovers/Lum Berry
    EVs: 252 HP, 110 Def, 148 SD
    Bold Nature
    - Follow Me
    - Softboiled
    - Thunder Wave
    - Seismic Toss

    Meet Clefable, whose job is to buy you time while you use a stat upper like Salamence. With this, Clefable will absorb all attacks, leaving you to only worry about Multi-target moves like Earthquake. S-toss gives an added punch to KO something or damage something on the switch. A useful Poke indeed.

    Umbreon @; Leftovers/Lum Berry
    EVs: 252 HP, 56 spd, 200 SD
    Careful Nature
    - Helping Hand
    - Toxic
    - Charm
    - Moonlight

    Survives almost every Explosion, and charms the hell out of physical bastards. Toxic to waste Lum Berries helps, and Moon Light screws over Sunny Day combos. The real star is HH, which adds 50% base power to your ally's move.

    Umbreon @; Leftovers/Lum Berry
    EVs: 252 HP, 200 Def, 56 spd
    Careful Nature
    - Helping Hand
    - Swagger
    - Tickle/Tail Whip
    - Moonlight

    Utilitybreon. Uses Swagger on your ally if Safeguard or Own Tempo is present, or on an Special Attackers that may be present. Tail Whip looks like lollerskates, but the fact it targets both opponents makes this a good filler move. Tickle does the same thing only it targets one and reduces attack as well.

    Alakazam @; Lum Berry
    EVs: 6 HP, 252 spd, 252 SA
    Modest Nature
    - Skill Swap
    - Psychic
    - Ice Punch
    - Knock Off

    Alakazam's purpose is to Skill Swap onto the demon known as Slaking. An old strat, but still works.

    Dusclops @; Leftovers
    EVs: 252 HP, 136 Atk, 120 Def
    Careful Nature
    - Imprison
    - Earthquake
    - HP Ghost
    - Protect

    The brainchild of MasamuneXGP. The 2vs2 variant of Dusclops serves to disable your opponent from using 3 of the 4 most common 2vs2 moves. Imprison will shut off ALL Hidden Power types. Things can get really evil with this thing and an exploder around.

    Dusclops @; Leftovers
    EVs: 252 HP, 120 Def, 56 SA, 80 SD
    Calm Nature
    - Helping Hand
    - Icy Wind
    - Sunny Day/Rain Dance
    - Protect

    Kickass defenses? Icy Wind? I fucking love post-XD Dusclops. Icy WInd slows shit down, HH for sweeping assistance. Stick this thing on your weather team and watch it fly.

    Regice @; Leftovers/Lum Berry
    EVs: 182 HP, 252 SA, 76 SD
    Calm Nature
    - Blizzard/Icy Wind
    - HP Water/Grass/Thunderbolt
    - Hail/Thunder Wave/Protect/Ice Beam/Substitute/Explosion/Counter/Psych Up
    - Hail/Thunder Wave/Protect/Ice Beam/Substitute/Explosion/Counter/Psych Up

    This thing is just.. wow. This thing can be hit by both Zapdos and a Swift Swimmer and simply shrug it off and deliver a Blizzard in the face. If you're going for Blizzard, you'll probably want to toss in Hail to make it 100% accurate and to negate the weather, but an ally can easily do that for you to speed things up. Pair this up with something like Lanturn or Quagsire with Hail and Rain Dance teams won't want to fuck with you ever again. Ice Beam for a quick KO when you know Blizzard can't do jack shit, Thunder Wave to disable swift swimmers and shit with chlorophyll, but beware of Lum Berry. Protect is obligatory with Explosion and Earthquake running rampant, and Explosion for your own diabolical purposes. Counter can fuck over Earthquakers that Regice won't be able to touch otherwise. Psych Up works when you have a stat boosting ally, and could work in certain situations.

    Blissey @; Leftovers
    EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 6 spd
    Bold Nature
    - Light Screen
    - Icy Wind
    - Softboiled/Protect/Counter/Growl/Tail Whip/Skill Swap/Seismic Toss
    - Softboiled/Protect/Counter/Growl/Tail Whip/Skill Swap/Seismic Toss

    Blissey plays a role similar to its 1vs1 alter ego. Icy Wind's ability to lower both opponent's speed can literally make or break a game, especially against Swift Swim and Chlorophyll Pokemon. Counter should be almost invaluable on Blissey in 2vs2. For the last move, Seismic Toss if you want some sort of attacking move, Skill Swap to give your ally Serene Grace and do some crazy shit with stuff like Thunder/Shadowball/etc, Tail Whip if you want to pummel the opponent into submission faster, and Growl if you want to play more defensively. Blissey can do a hell of a lot more, as shown here

    Common Combos

    Pokemon is one thing, but what can you expect to see as an ally? Here are a few examples:

    Metagross: Agility, Earthquake, Meteor Mash, Explosion @; Lum Berry
    Gengar: Skill Swap, Ice Punch, Thunderbolt, Destiny Bond @; Lum Berry


    You may not see these guys at the same time, but if you see one, be sure to expect the other.

    Charizard: Substitute, Earthquake, Belly Drum, Rock Slide/HP Rock/HP Flying @; Salac Berry
    Clefable: Follow Me, Seismic Toss, Thunder Wave, Softboiled @; Leftovers


    This combo was extremely dangerous at one point, but people caught on and began to use Rock Slide over HP Rock. Surf also works to counter this. Its not as popular as it used to be, but it sure does a hell of a job when set up.

    Medicham: Fake Out, Rock Slide, Shadow Ball/Endure, BB/HJK/Reversal @; Salac Berry
    Stantler: Earthquake, Frustration, Shadow Ball, Role Play @; Lum/Salac Berry


    Invented by microgamer, this strat isn't as mainstream as the others, but its enough to give these two a notice when delving into 2vs2. Intimidate hurts any physical attacker not named Metagross, and two pokemon with Pure Power can be a bitch. Luckily these two are fast enough to pull it off.

    More soon, I promise
  2. Yuri

    Yuri

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2005
    Messages:
    2,446
    You should as well mention commmon pairs. I didn't do the evs because I'm not home. Also, CB in 2x2 is not a bad idea, in my opinion. You are stuck with one move of couse but you can always hit the other target. I never tested it myself, though, guess I should do it.


    Gengar@Leftovers/Lum Berry
    ~Swagger/Skill Swap
    ~Thunderbolt
    ~Ice Punch
    ~Protect/Psychic/Explosion

    Metagross@Leftovers/Lum Berry
    ~Agility
    ~Explosion
    ~Meteor Mash
    ~Earthquake/Rock Slide

    Huge threat, you never know exactly what these two are up to. These starts with Agility and either Skill Swap, to avoid Earthquakes, or Swagger, activating Lum. Then Gengar do what is left to do.


    Salamence@Leftovers/Lum Berry
    ~HP Flying
    ~Earthquake
    ~Rock Slide
    ~Filler

    Gyarados@Leftovers/Lum Berry
    ~HP Flying/Aerial Ace
    ~Earthquake
    ~Return/HP Rock
    ~Filler

    Double intimidate. Heck, this is annoying! Metagross won't like the double Earthquake, take note. Note sure if Return is of any use, but right now I can't remember anything better. Or replace Gyarados for:

    Aerodactyl @; Lum Berry
    EVs: 6 HP, 252 Atk, 252 spd
    Jolly Nature
    - HP Flying/Aerial Ace
    - Rock Slide/HP Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Protect/Filler

    (Copy pasted huh?)For the double Flinch. You also can be a bastard and use King's Rock. I also found Aerodactyl great in my Rain/Sun teams to activate weather again in case something went wrong.


    Good Job! I was willing to do one myself but gave up because I don't think I know pokemon enough. Maybe you should add the links for the 2x2 Strategy analises in the archive though it's impossible to post there.
    I hope to have contributed.
  3. Mekkah

    Mekkah
    is a Super Moderatoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
    Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    14,006
    Great job, now mention Blissey, Regice, Solrock and Jirachi. Maybe Charizard as a good partner to Follow Me Clefable, though it's fucked by Rock Slide.

    You might want to add that if Salamence uses a 30 DV in all stats except Speed, it can still reach 328 and tie with Timid Zapdos and Jirachi.
  4. RicepigeonKKM

    RicepigeonKKM Wait, who?
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    2,354
    Fixed, I'll delve into stuff like Jirachi soon enough once I find the archived analysis I wrote
  5. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Doubles Co-Lead

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,565
    As usual great 2vs2 pokemon analysis KKM =]
  6. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    739

    Gyara cant learn Aerial Ace
  7. Tazzler

    Tazzler

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,347
    You might want to mention jumpluff and the combos it could do such as swaggerguard.
  8. Kikuichimonji

    Kikuichimonji

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    1,527
    Gyarados and Salamence can be paired for a double-Intimidate lead. While they're not the only ones that can do this, they're probably the most notable for both having EQ immunity and all. Once upon a time Aerodactyl/Salamence leads were really common, just for being really quick and being relatively hard hitters, having that EQ immunity, and getting double flinch potential on Rock Slide.

    Flygon doesn't get as nearly as much credit as he deserves. He's basically Salamence minus some attack and speed, and HP a tad lower. What he gets in return is resistance to Rock Slide (which Salamence is weak to) and more notably STAB on Earthquake, plus Quick Attack which is great for taking out stuff like Plusle/Minun, or taking Eggy/Kingdra out of play when they would otherwise be running all over you with a Petaya boost. He keeps the Ice double weak, and doesn't get intimidate, but the Electric immunity really does help, making him a great canidate against electric types and something you can actually switch in. Pretty much anything can EQ Jolteon, but something like Metagross doesn't like switching into STAB Thunderbolt, especially if it's getting a Helping Hand boost.
  9. bash1010

    bash1010

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2006
    Messages:
    307
    This is truly amazing but just a quick question. On the Imprison Dusclops, why do you have HP Ghost over Shadow Ball?
  10. david stone

    david stone Fast-moving, smart, sexy and alarming.
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Programmer Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2005
    Messages:
    5,150
    Because Imprison prevents the enemy from using any Hidden Power.



    And Rock Slide is not helped by King's Rock, whoever mentioned that earlier.
  11. DemonScythe

    DemonScythe

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2005
    Messages:
    38
    you show no love for Tauros :(
    that shit needs no help and butchers any team right in half!
    also Claydol>Zam for swillswaping Claydol can explode setup
    screens and reflects and well that earthquake is just good all around..
  12. Yuri

    Yuri

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2005
    Messages:
    2,446
    Alakazam is a speed demon and his STAB'ed Psychic hurts. However, it's a matter of taste and team.
  13. RicepigeonKKM

    RicepigeonKKM Wait, who?
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    2,354
    Both are still good. As already mentioned, it comes down to taste: Fast KO and low defense, or slow swap and ability to set up screens safely?

    Also, who said tauros sucked? Tauros is friggin gold in 2vs2.
  14. Yuri

    Yuri

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2005
    Messages:
    2,446
  15. RicepigeonKKM

    RicepigeonKKM Wait, who?
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    2,354
    Doesnt even mention Tauros but no fear, this will be fixed.
  16. Cereblaze

    Cereblaze

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2006
    Messages:
    92
    looks pretty nice. =) just a couple little things i thought might be helpful...

    *another possible strategy to lead with is while Gyarados sets up a DD to sweep and whatnot, Marowak or Rhydon (or another poke who gets lightningrod that i forgot, such as manetcric, but those two do it best imo) can absorb Tbolts and/or Thunder from Jolty, Zappy and anywho.

    Also, this electrode could work wonders with a rain/thunderdance team...

    Electrode @ Leftovers
    Trait: Static/Soundproof
    EVs: 56 Atk / 8 Def / 180 Spd / 236 SAtk / 28 SDef
    Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
    - Thunder
    - Explosion
    - Rain Dance/Twave
    - Thunderbolt/light screen

    now, 150 physical attack might not seem like much, but worst case scenario, if either electrode here has done his duty or faces a special wall, this will still put a nice dent into special walls, definitely more than Thunder or another special move would. just give him rain dance if he doesnt already get rain support from another poke. Twave screws other pokes relying on rain or sunshine, and light screen is nice for protecting both your pokes from special moves. also, if for some reason, your opponent predicts real well and crushes ur rain, Tbolt is there as backup. 70% acc often leaves u screwed...also, that extra spd EV is for pokes who use the bare minimum for rain dance/sunny day, 198. 199 outspeeds him just barely.

    Kingdra (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 40 HP / 16 Def / 104 Spd / 244 SAtk / 104 SDef
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Rain Dance
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Protect

    Id probably give this guy Rain Dance, and then either Twave or light screen on Trody. Surf and Ice beam are always nice, and if your gonna have Trody explode, then use Protect. both these guys do nice special sweeping together. ^_^ lol

    hope this helps. =)
  17. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon IRC SOPis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2005
    Messages:
    6,118
    IIRC Hail does not make Blizzard 100% accurate
  18. freaktron

    freaktron

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2005
    Messages:
    1,627
    Ahem. -_-
  19. RicepigeonKKM

    RicepigeonKKM Wait, who?
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    2,354
    The topic was made before that was discovered to be a glitch in NB.
  20. Sarenji

    Sarenji leaf-faced
    is a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Programmer Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 16, 2005
    Messages:
    362
    I actually made this about 24 hours ago. Maybe you saw me battle with it or it's just a coincidence.
    It works, but Marowak likes being picked on, which is why I equipped Gyarados with Thunder Wave. Marowak with Earthquake (Gyarados is flying, remember :)) and para support is awesome.

    I use a Cosmic Power Clefable with Follow Me. It only needs one Cosmic Power, actually. 400 defenses (1 Cosmic Power) with nice hp is fun with Follow Me. I occasionally switch from Cosmic Power to Thunder Wave though.
  21. Cereblaze

    Cereblaze

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2006
    Messages:
    92
    o cool, it wasnt you, but i actually noticed someone using a similar strategy another time. it was proably coincidence ;)
  22. el_B

    el_B

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2005
    Messages:
    193
    I've thought of a combo in 2vs2 ubers, especially considering the upcoming Nintendo tournament. Beware, as it's just a idea; I never tested it, nor did I ever played 2vs2 competively, so it might just plain suck.

    I can imagine that a lot of 2vs2 Teams will consist of Groudon or Kyogre + Weather abuser, especially as starter.
    I thought about using both Rayquaza and Dugtrio as starter to take care of their weather Pokemon and control the weather like you wish to.

    Dugtrio (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Filler
    - Filler

    Rayquaza @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Air Lock
    EVs: 200 Atk / 252 Spd / 56 SAtk
    Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
    - Hidden Power [Flying] / Aerial Ace
    - Ice Beam
    - Dragon Claw
    - Earthquake

    Not quite sure about the EVs though. You can use whatever you want as filler for Dugtrio, I'd even suggest Hyper Beam for a last punch. I gave Dugtrio Adamant to make it hit harder and I'm not informed about 2vs2 speeds : I

    Basically, the idea is to eliminate the enemy's Kyogre or Groudon in the first turn. Dugtrio stops them from switching out and deals damage with CB Earthquake, while Rayquaza's trait negates opponent's weather speed boost and finishes Kyogre with HP Flying, Aerial Ace or Earthquake and Groudon with Ice Beam. Dragon Claw is for stab and maybe Kingdra, Lati@s or whatever.

    This combo nearly guarantees a first round kill on Groudon and Kyogre, unless they use Protect, are supported by a fast Pokemon able to OHKO Quaza or Dugtrio before they can attack, or have got a load of HP / Def EVs. This allows you to change the weather to what you'd like it to be for the rest of the match (Unless they are using another weather-move user.)

    This combo is very specialized imo though and will probablly be countered by a lot of other 2vs2 stuff, but it was just a spin-idea.

    The tournament's battles are hold with 4 Pokemon each if I'm not mistaken, so you might as well bench Dugtrio and/or Rayquaza if you don't need them and you're using this combo in the tournament.

    Oh well, rate/hate
  23. Yuri

    Yuri

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2005
    Messages:
    2,446
    This is actually an usable idea, negating their weatehr and KO'ing the propper uber. The problem I see is that Rayquaza can't always guarantee an OHKO and you must choose what you want to counter since the EV's split in the attacks wont help. Dugtrio could finish the job but then it will turn in dead meat.
  24. el_B

    el_B

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2005
    Messages:
    193
    Maybe I messed up, but the damage calculator told me that Duggy's CB Quake + Quazas AA / Ice Beam with these EVs finishes both.

    (With above EVs and assuming both Kyogre and Groudon have 0 defensive Evs and 4 HP Evs)
    Dugtrio's EQ vs

    Kyogre: 63%-73%
    Groudon: 43%-50%

    Rayquaza vs

    Kyogre using AA: 34%-40% (Chances are it survives it)
    Kyogre using HP Flying: 40%-47% (Worst case -> 63%+40% = 103% = dead)
    Kyogre using Earthquake: 38%-44% (Worst case -> 38%+44% = 101% = dead)

    Groudon using Ice Beam: 65%-77% (Worst case -> 43% + 65% = 108% = dead)

    Of course, both are pretty close, so some random HP/Def Evs might screw you up.
    Cutting some speed EVs to reach 308 (Groudon and Kyogre with max speed are at 306) allows you to spend some EVs into the attacks to be safe.
  25. Little Green Yoda

    Little Green Yoda

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    2,458
    Damn, I was going to use this strat. Never thought of using Duggy to trap them in however. Mewtwo leads will ruin this though. =(

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)