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General Analysis:UE/NFU Metagame(In Work)

Discussion in 'Archives' started by Tazzler, Jan 13, 2006.

  1. Tazzler

    Tazzler

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    This metagame consists of pre-evolutions and the early stages of pokemon. This metagame is very much like the fully-evolved ones. I won’t be getting into much detail about the overall metagame, but I can tell you this: It is slow. The fastest is 105 at kadabra. Most of the pokemon are at 70-90.

    Banned Pokemon
    ~Pupitar
    ~Kadabra
    ~Haunter
    ~Metang
    ~Pikachu
    ~Clamperl
    ~Cubone
    ~Vigoroth
    ~Scyther
    Note- This is based on what I've heard.

    The NFE list (credit goes to Slobroking)
    Abra, Anorith, Aron, Azurill, Bagon, Baltoy, Barboach, Bayleef, Beldum, Bellsprout, Bulbasaur, Cacnea, Carvanha, Cascoon, Caterpie, Charmander, Charmeleon, Chikorita, Chinchou, Clefairy, Cleffa, Combusken, Corphish, Croconaw, Cyndaquil, Diglett, Doduo, Dragonair, Dratini, Drowzee, Duskull, Eevee, Ekans, Electrike, Elekid, Exeggcute, Feebas, Flaaffy, Gastly, Geodude, Gloom, Golbat, Goldeen, Graveler, Grimer, Grovyle, Growlithe, Gulpin, Hoothoot, Hoppip, Horsea, Houndour, Igglybuff, Ivysaur, Jigglypuff, Kabuto, Kakuna, Kirlia, Koffing, Krabby, Lairon, Larvitar, Ledyba, Lileep, Lombre, Lotad, Loudred, Machoke, Machop, Magby, Magikarp, Magnemite, Makuhita, Mankey, Mareep, Marill, Marshtomp, Meditite, Meowth, Metapod, Mudkip, Natu, NidoranF, NidoranM, Nidorina, Nidorino, Nincada, Numel, Nuzleaf, Oddish, Omanyte, Onix, Paras, Phanpy, Pichu, Pidgeotto, Pidgey, Pineco, Poliwag, Poliwhirl, Ponyta, Poochyena, Porygon, Psyduck, Quilava, Ralts, Rattata, Remoraid, Rhyhorn, Sandshrew, Seadra, Sealeo, Seedot, Seel, Sentret, Shellder, Shellgon, Shroomish, Shuppet, Silcoon, Skiploom, Skitty, Slakoth, Slowpoke, Slugma, Smoochum, Snorunt, Snubbull, Spearow, Spheal, Spinarak, Spoink, Squirtle, Staryu, Sunkern, Surskit, Swablu, Swinub, Taillow, Teddiursa, Tentacool, Togepi, Torchic, Totodile, Trapinch, Treecko, Tyrogue, Venonat, Vibrava, Voltorb, Vulpix, Wailmer, Wartortle, Weedle, Weepinbell, Whismur, Wingull, Wooper, Wurmple, Zigzagoon, Zubat

    Choice Banders
    There are very few choice banders. The main choice banders in standard- their pre-vos either are weak, terrible movepools, or have no pre-vos. Also, the cbers here are SLOW so the basic 252 attack/252 speed/6 hp doesn’t really work. Instead, you would want to max out hp.

    Trapinch (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Quick Attack
    - Rock Slide
    - Hidden Power [Bug]

    Trapinch is slowww-10 base speed. He has terrible defenses and hp, too. However, he has a sexy attack stat. He also has arena trap which prevents most foes from switching. He gets Stab on Earthquake and gets rock slide and quick attack. Speed evs are unessecary as it won’t outrun a torkoal.

    Rhyhorn (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Rock Head
    EVs: 82 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Def
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Blast
    - Megahorn
    - Double-Edge

    Yes another slow cber. Won’t survive a special hit at all. Gets Stab on EQ and RB/RS. Megahorn and double- edge for power.

    Lairon (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Rock Head
    EVs: 156 HP / 252 Atk / 102 Def
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Iron Tail
    - Rock Slide
    - Double-Edge

    Another slowww cber. This thing has pretty good attack and defense. It gets STAB on RS and IT and can take a physical hit.

    Combusken (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 156 HP / 252 Atk / 102 SAtk
    Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
    - Sky Uppercut
    - Rock Slide
    - Focus Punch
    - Overheat

    Doesn’t really have the defenses to stat up, imo. Still pretty good. Stabbed fighting moves and fire. Still pretty slow.

    Physical Sweepers
    These pokemon use stat-upping moves to sweep. There a lot more of these than there are cbers.

    Pupitar (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Shed Skin
    EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Taunt

    DDtar just with pupitar. After one dragon dance, it outruns most of the metagame. Getting Stab on rock slide and earthquake which t-tar only gets stab on rs. He can switch into status conditions and heal up with shed skin. You could put jolly to outrun everything.

    Cubone (M) @ Thick Club
    Trait: Rock Head
    EVs: 82 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bonemerang/Earthquake
    - Swords Dance
    - Rock Slide
    - Focus Punch

    Just like marowak but its cubone. It gets like 400 attack with this. SD to boost up even more and bonemerang everything in sight. Focus punch for switches. Speed evs outrun the slower pokemon of the metagame.

    Poliwhirl (M) @ Salac Berry
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 Atk / 6 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Brick Break
    - Substitute
    - Belly Drum

    Bellywhirl. Works the same way as belly drum charizard or poliwrath. Sub, b-drum to get salac and sweep. However, no STAB and relatively weak attack can be annoying.

    Machoke (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 82 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Cross Chop
    - Bulk Up
    - Hidden Power [Ghost]
    - Rock Slide

    Bulk up and sweep. Machoke is quite slow, so watch out. Hidden power for ghosts and psychics( on the switch). Can also work as a cber.

    Marshtomp (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 156 HP / 252 Atk / 40 Def / 62 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Curse
    - Rock Slide
    - Rest
    Cursetomp. Hit hard with STAB EQS and boosted RS. Rest keeps you alive. You could go with Brave and Surf/Hydro Pump/Ice Beam.

    Special Sweepers
    Special sweepers are much more common. The highest special attack is DeepSeaTooth clamperl with 540 special attack. There is also light ball pikachu.

    Pikachu (M) @ Light Ball
    Trait: Static
    EVs: 6 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Substitute
    - Surf
    - Thunderbolt
    Gets 398 special attack with this. That may not seem enough s you have to have speed in this metagame. Stabbed t-bolt is deadly, surf grounds and hp ice is filler.

    Clamperl (M) @ DeepSeaTooth
    Trait: Shell Armor
    EVs: 252 HP / 6 Def / 252 SAtk
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Hidden Power [Electric]
    - Ice Beam
    - Rest
    - Surf
    540 Special Attack WHAT!!!!! Seriously, it gets it. Stabbed surf coming from this is dangerous. Ice beam grasses and hidden power other waters. Rest to keep you alive.

    Grovyle (M) @ Petaya Berry
    Trait: Overgrow
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 6 SDef
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Endeavor
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Leaf Blade
    - Substitute
    Works like sceptile. Being one of the faster UE pokes, it can sub before attack. Sub down to get petaya and sweep. Or you could use endeavor, too.

    Haunter (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 6 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Destiny Bond
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Thunderbolt
    - Giga Drain

    115 base special attack and 95 base speed = Great Special Sweeper. It doesn't have the elemental punches so Hidden Power is a substitute for ice punch. Haunter has terrible defenses and hp.....but a lot of resistances and immunities so you can switch in on like trapinch EQ. Destiny Bond works great with haunter's speed and low defenses.

    Kadabra (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Synchronize
    EVs: 216 Spd / 252 SAtk / 42 SDef
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Psychic
    - Recover
    - Thunderpunch

    Probably the best special sweeper and pre-vo. Or at least one of. This is the fastest Pre-vo. With these evs it outruns, max base 100's if there are any. Psychic is for Stab. I don't know if calm mind and recover are good with his low defenses and hp, but I guess you would calm mind on the switch. Thunderpunch could be replaced with another elemental punch.

    Porygon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Trace
    EVs: 196 HP / 252 SAtk / 62 SDef
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt
    - Recover
    - Thunder Wave
    Boltbeam. Thunder Wave to make up for that horrendous speed and recover for healing.

    Physical Walls and/or Tanks
    Many of the choice banders that are ground/rock/steel could easily pass as walls.

    Graveler (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Rock Head
    EVs: 132 HP / 198 Atk / 180 Def
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Blast
    - Counter
    - Explosion
    One of the better walls in this metagame. Hurts Stuff with Stabbed EQ and RB. Counter is nice for cbers who, most of the time, won't OHKO you. Explosion takes about everything.

    Lairon (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Rock Head
    EVs: 156 HP / 252 Atk / 102 Def
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Iron Tail
    - Rock Slide
    - Double-Edge
    This thing has so much defense that it could be a defensive wall and act as a cber. Like said, hurt stuff with its variety of moves.

    Seadra (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Poison Point
    EVs: 132 HP / 188 Def / 190 SAtk
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Rest
    Could easily work as a special sweeper. Beware as it can't take a special hit. Being pure water has its pros and cons. Pros include not having that ground and fighting weakness. Cons include no rock/flying/normal resist. Rock resist is important as most of the physical sweepers have a powerful, sometimes stabbed rock attack.

    Special Sponges
    Good special sponges are really hard to come by. Chansey is your best bet, though.

    Chansey (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 176 HP / 252 Def / 82 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Aromatherapy
    - Softboiled
    - Thunder Wave
    - Seismic Toss
    Yup, its chansey. Howver, it still isn't that good. 105 special defense isn't enough so it needs calm for the boost. Even ith max defense and bold, it is still owned by physical attackers. It can't do any damage besides seismic toss as its attacking stats are quite low.

    Drowzee (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Insomnia
    EVs: 236 HP / 46 Def / 228 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Thunder Wave
    - Seismic Toss
    - Wish
    - Light Screen/Reflect/Barrier
    Probaly the second best sponge. The dfense evs could go into speed to outrun pokes like rhyhorn. Or you could just max hp and special defense. Wish for healing, seismic toss for damage (psychic won't do shit) and t-wave for staus. Light screen for psuedo passing special defense to pokes like combusken. Could be repalced with reflect or barrier.

    Duskull (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 30 Atk / 228 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Shadow Ball
    - Pain Split
    - Night Shade
    Third best sponge. However, the hp makes me cry.Still good defnses. WOW can disabel rhyhorn, graveler,larion, and trapinch. Good EQ immunity which is very important.Shadow Ball for kadabra, I guess. Pain split for healing and works great with his sucky hp. Finally, night shade for consistant damage-it doesn't get seismic toss.

    Supporters

    Skiploom (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 122 HP / 252 Spd / 136 SDef
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Sleep Powder
    - Leech Seed
    - Stun Spore
    - Reflect/Encore/Substitute/Hidden Power [Flying/Grass]
    Fast. Double powder is awesome and leech seed is annoying. The last slot is diverse-Reflect for passing defense. Encore for annoying fun. Substitute for subseeding. Hidden power flying for other grasses or hidden power grass for rhyhorn/trapinch/graveler and other grounds and rocks. If using an attacking move, you might want some evs in the respective attacks.

    Pineco (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 172 HP / 86 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Spikes
    - Hidden Power [Bug]/Earthquake
    - Rapid Spin
    - Explosion
    Wall, too. Spikes is a cool move and bieng that there are practically no spinners, it will cause a lot of damage. Rapid spin is knga meh, but you might need it. No EQ since maganemite/ton won't trap you, but it might come in handy. Explosion to go out with a band. A psudo pass move could go over rapid spin.



    I am not yet finished with this analysis. What do you think of this so far?
  2. Hipmonlee

    Hipmonlee Have a rice day
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    I dont have much experience with RS unevolved, but in the other versions unevolved would exclude any middle evolutions.. I cant really imagine that metagame involving middle evolutions of rs would be more interesting than just first evolution stages..

    Have a nice day.
  3. cholena

    cholena
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    there was a pre-evo tourney a while back. Kadabra got banned....basically the only thing that could sort of stand up to it was houndour...and it gets 1hko'd by thunder punch after 1 calm mind....oh and after 1 dd pupitar sweeps.
  4. Slobroking

    Slobroking

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    pupitar is banned too, as is metang, haunter

    edit: clamperl,pikachu and cubone are banned too

    NFE list

    Abra, Anorith, Aron, Azurill, Bagon, Baltoy, Barboach, Bayleef, Beldum, Bellsprout, Bulbasaur, Cacnea, Carvanha, Cascoon, Caterpie, Charmander, Charmeleon, Chikorita, Chinchou, Clefairy, Cleffa, Combusken, Corphish, Croconaw, Cyndaquil, Diglett, Doduo, Dragonair, Dratini, Drowzee, Duskull, Eevee, Ekans, Electrike, Elekid, Exeggcute, Feebas, Flaaffy, Gastly, Geodude, Gloom, Golbat, Goldeen, Graveler, Grimer, Grovyle, Growlithe, Gulpin, Hoothoot, Hoppip, Horsea, Houndour, Igglybuff, Ivysaur, Jigglypuff, Kabuto, Kakuna, Kirlia, Koffing, Krabby, Lairon, Larvitar, Ledyba, Lileep, Lombre, Lotad, Loudred, Machoke, Machop, Magby, Magikarp, Magnemite, Makuhita, Mankey, Mareep, Marill, Marshtomp, Meditite, Meowth, Metapod, Mudkip, Natu, NidoranF, NidoranM, Nidorina, Nidorino, Nincada, Numel, Nuzleaf, Oddish, Omanyte, Onix, Paras, Phanpy, Pichu, Pidgeotto, Pidgey, Pineco, Poliwag, Poliwhirl, Ponyta, Poochyena, Porygon, Psyduck, Quilava, Ralts, Rattata, Remoraid, Rhyhorn, Sandshrew, Seadra, Sealeo, Seedot, Seel, Sentret, Shellder, Shellgon, Shroomish, Shuppet, Silcoon, Skiploom, Skitty, Slakoth, Slowpoke, Slugma, Smoochum, Snorunt, Snubbull, Spearow, Spheal, Spinarak, Spoink, Squirtle, Staryu, Sunkern, Surskit, Swablu, Swinub, Taillow, Teddiursa, Tentacool, Togepi, Torchic, Totodile, Trapinch, Treecko, Tyrogue, Venonat, Vibrava, Voltorb, Vulpix, Wailmer, Wartortle, Weedle, Weepinbell, Whismur, Wingull, Wooper, Wurmple, Zigzagoon, Zubat
  5. cholena

    cholena
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    metang was never a problem for me, between a ghost/marshtomp/phanpy..it's kinda screwed....
  6. Tazzler

    Tazzler

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    Updated.

    1. Metang doesn't have the monstrous attack that gross has.
    2.Should I still include the "banned pokemon"?
  7. Mekkah

    Mekkah
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    You've got Lairon listed twice. I dunno if you intended on that but it's somewhat weird.

    Mention Earthquake on Cubone, Bonemerang will miss when you need it and not like there's so many subbers that won't kick Cubone's ass if it has Earthquake instead.

    Yeah Marshtomp is great. :)
  8. gene

    gene GENE
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    Porygon is a great ue.
  9. Tazzler

    Tazzler

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    Okay, I'll add it. I put larion as both a cber and a wall.
  10. Kordaihn

    Kordaihn

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    shelgon is a good choice too, big defense and a good attack
  11. Tazzler

    Tazzler

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    Yea, but piss poor movepool, no physical STAB, and weak specials.
  12. Slobroking

    Slobroking

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    you should mention that kadabra/pupitar/clamperl/pikachu and more are banned

    edit: chansey is banned too, and wynaut too, incase you wanted to mention him
  13. Sir Spanky

    Sir Spanky

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    Is Meditite allowed? Sure his base stats suck but he has 580~ attack with CB.

    Spanky
  14. Medi Guy

    Medi Guy

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    They're generally not considered UE through common sense, but you might, just for clarification, want to mention that Vigoroth and Scyther are banned as well.
  15. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
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    Scyther isn't NFE/UE because its stat total is the same as scizor. If scyther is considered UE, then chansey should follow in
  16. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight October Surprise
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    How about Golbat? Golbat 2HKO's Lairon with HP Fighting and Graveler with Giga Drain. He's basically an anti-wall CB'er. Golbat can also take Rock Slides(heck, can't even be flinched) or Thunderbolts from anything in the Metagame, and with 90 Base Speed, Golbat can act quickly. The only thing I know that can OHKO Bats is good Thunder from Voltorb.

    In fact, Golbat can kill all Psychics you'll run into with CB Shadow Ball.

    Moreover, if you don't like CB Bat, Golbat can also annoy.
  17. noobster

    noobster space cowboy
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    Eh, I don't really like this analysis tbh. The title is the UE/NFU Metagame, but all you mentioned were the more common and stronger Pokemon, instead of actually talking about the metagame as a whole.
  18. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight October Surprise
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    I kind of disagree with the analysis as a "slow" metagame, yeah, your base speed tops out at 105 but that doesn't mean diddly, the speed of the Metagame depends on how fast you can kill, not on your base speed.

    One: Your two or three big defense walls have 4x weaknesses to common attacks. The exception is, oddly enough, Shelgon who sports a whopping 100 base defense (Shelgon is weak to Ice and Dragon and only has 50 base SD, though). Metang also has 100 Base defense and 80 base SD, but the attack is 75 and the SA is 55, so it isn't exactly as powerhouse as Metagross is in OU.

    What I would imagine is that in UE/NFE you have a few powerhouse speedy attacks.

    CB Diglett.

    Elekid

    Abra

    and so forth.

    And then second stagers become your defense houses.

    Golbat has some great stats in this Metagame (He can also faster than Skiploom, can smack Graveler with GD, and Lairon has a cronic fear of quakes after a switch in), Graveler and Lairon serve as physical walls, Ivysaur, Wartortle, Bayleef, and Marshtomp probably won't go down either, while the Fire starters have better speed and attacking stats (Charmeleon still gets Dragon Dance and Swords Dance, Quilava is once again relegated to worst starter.) Pidgeotto even has some marketability given that it works effectively like a super-Spearow with 1 better base speed, and nasty STAB on Double-Edge (Doduo has less durability and slightly more speed). Seadra still has a sexy 95 base defense, in addition to being fairly speedy and a competent special attacker. Then there's Dragonair. Vibrava is a weaker dragon statwise, but immunity to electric AND ground doesn't hurt, with Rock resist, in addition to EQ STAB. Machoke of course has great attack power, and so forth.

    The only thing with 101 HP Subs is Jigglypuff, So Seismic Toss/Night Shade are incredibly viable move options for wallish pokemon.

    Stat ups seem quite significant in this metagame, with the defenses of pokemon being mediocre, a boost in attack and speed is welcome. You need 222 to outspeed max speed Timid Voltorb, and 200 to outspeed Modest Voltorb. If Voltorb isn't a worry, then focus on attack stats.

    Baton passers are all but irrelevant, being only Spinarak and Ledyba, whoonly know how to die.

    As for the implications of 2 vs 2, CB Diglett + Golbat seems like a viable starting option, your intimidaters are cut down attack are Growlithe and Snubbull, two pokemon seriously outclasses by second stagers.

    btw. there anywhere to start a UE/NFE Game?
  19. flavour trainer

    flavour trainer

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    With a Choice Band Zubat could be a sweeper if he could get a super effective hit or attack a pokemon with a low in a certain stat with a STAB'ed attack and it would be not too hard because he is a dual type. The only problem is he's not to speedy, but a little above some of them. He knows endure and if he had a Liechi berry on him he could sweep with 310.5 attack at max. It's not great attack, but with such other pokemon with low stats, he might just get by. He has double-edge and Sludge Bomb, which might just pass. Sludge Bomb is a pretty good move considering it's chance of poisoning and 90 base power. I know this is really weak, but if used correctly, I think you could score a super effective, STAB'ed Sludge Bomb which also leaves them poisoned. That wasn't the best thing, but I think my idea of Quilava might be better.

    Quilava has 284 sp.atk at max, and if he uses Endure, he can activate Petaya Berry leaving him at 426 (yes) sp.atk. Also, Flamethrower plus STAB is 142.5 plus Blaze brings you to a whopping 213.75! He has a base of 80 speed, which might be a sweeper in this game. Oh wait, there's sunny day! Add that on and you have 320.625 am I right? That's not oo bad, in my opinion. It might seems to hard to set up, but all it is is Endure + Sunny Day. Now, 426 sp.atk with a 320.625 base power attacks is just a recipe for good sweeping. I think my Zubat idea if off, but this one might stand out.
  20. giga

    giga
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    I really dislike how all of the good dudes are banned, it's not that hard to counter Pikachu.

    Scyther should be the only exception, as it's a kick ass Poke anyway.

    Just blah, I don't think much should be banned.

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