General Discussion

[prem]

yeah i feel like carvahna is such an underrated threat. i just played dcae yesterday with a REALLY bad team that had vahna and just some other random shit on it. vahna itself literally almost won the game for me. i wouldve actualy won if i ran aqua jet for his krow but seriously its such an underrated sweeper. the only thing that actually will prevent it from sweeping is tangela because ice beam is weak but yeah tangela can just be handled other ways. but seriously people should get on that vahna hype lol

 

[Rowan]

Completely agree with Carvanha hype, it so fucking good. I run a team that has both Carvanha and Yanma and they work great as they can really overwhelm the opposing team together. If you have Carv in, for example, you can switch to Yanma to take Timburr/Croagunks fighting priority and just continue wrecking the opposing team. Carvanha can also switch into Ice Shards aimed at Yanma. Not much can withstand repeated hits from either and you really need priority or good bulk if you wanna revenge them.

 

[Chieliee]

From what i've seen of Carvanha, it's easy to revenge or force out (either by priority or bulky mons), but incredibly hard to switch into. This means that when I'm facing it i don't really see it as a sweeper, but more as a hit and run kind of guy, despite having an amazing ability fit for sweeping in Speed Boost.

I think when using Carvanha, you should get it in the battlefield as often as possible to put pressure on your opponent. Take every chance you get to get it in because they seem sparse due to vanha's awful defenses. Correct me if I'm wrong on this cause im purely theorymonning.

tl;dr: easy to force out, hard to switch into. I wouldn't save it for last mon but try to get it in as much as possible

 

[Heysup]

I would say that you're half right, I would do both. I would get Vahna in on anything it can kill because it's its own wall-breaker. Its sweeping potential with Speed boost is really the selling point though.

 

[Ray Jay]

Hey guys, IDK why this thread is not getting action! It's valuable for general discussion wooooohooo!

Anyways, I just wanted to bring up berry juice. I know a lot of people have been whining about sturdy smash juice (Tirtouga and Dwebble), but one thing I'm really getting ticked off at is Gligar.

Right now, Gligar's like that really bad RPG boss where you beat it once and then (cuz of Berry Juice Acrobatics) you have to beat its second form and its even stronger. Basically nothing barring strong special Water STAB or Ice-types OHKO it, and Berry Juice makes it so there's no such thing as a 2HKO! If you can save your Berry Juice on Gligar until late in the game, it seems like there isn't much the opponent can do. They either are forced to keep their Scarf Amaura or other priority users completely healthy and thus cannot use them all game or just get roflstomped as Gligar goes on an all out massacre due to its incredible STABs. Most Pokemon in this meta that can take a hit from Gligar aren't doing much in return, either. Overall, I feel Gligar is really strong right now BECAUSE of Berry Juice, and I'm wondering what other items you guys think could be used on offensive Gligar if Berry Juice wasn't around. Of course, we have no indication of Berry Juice going anywhere in the meantime, just wondering!

 

[prem]

ive honestly never had a problem with gligar honestly. i personally tried offensive gligar and found it underwhelming because of the lack of flying gem. it might just be because of rememberance of the pain it cause upon others, but gligar just doesnt feel like the offensive mon of the century anymore. i just think of it as a pivot with good speed and attack, that can take hits. and because i use it like that and i see other people use it like that i dont even think berry juice is that good on it because id much rather have eviolite to prevent things from killing it. gligar can take some ice punches with eviolite its amazing. without berry jucie obvious itll just go back to eviolite i mean everyone uses knock off anyway. if not then itll run berry juice / some other disposable item

 

[Shouting]

More Trial and Error results:

Chespin: Not very good, but not terrible either. Bulletproof is cool, but Misdreavus pretty much always carry Will-o-Wisp now, Gastly uses Sludge Wave (although sometimes they do carry Sludge Bomb instead). Really overshadowed by Tangela right now, the only thing Chespin has over it is spikes really.

Stunky: Hooray! Stunky finally got a physical move that isn't Dark STAB. Unfortunately, Trollfreak strikes again by making Play Rough an egg move instead of a level up move, which makes it illegal with sucker punch....still, Fairy and Dark give decent coverage together.

Honedge: Terrible in all honesty, at least right now. Gilgar, Tangela, and Vullaby shut it down completely as well as fire types. It struggles to do much of anything when these three are all relatively popular. The most success I had was with an Automize set with Shadow Claw / Sacred Sword / Hidden Power Ice with a life orb, but its really not that powerful and even with Hidden Power Ice Vullaby and Tangela can still take it on. Now that most fightng types carry knock off, it has trouble switching in, although it can wall Meditite which is something.

Helioptile: Decent. Sometimes I was wondering why I was using this and not Chinchou, since both are rather similar. I think a Scarf set is the only thing it can pull off, and it has a niche as being a scarfer that is immune to aqua jet, so it can revenge Tirtouga with little problem so that is kinda cool. Most Misdreavus go to Thunderbolt instead of Hidden Power Fighting so it can switch in on it a few times also. Dark Pulse isn't exactly a good move to lock yourself into though.

Spritzee: I use this thing on almost all of my teams, it is so good. Its ridiculously bulky and hit reasonable hard as well. It is probably one of the, if not the best cleric in LC right now. It is an excellent Wish passer as it has a great HP stat and can easily come in and out. Moonblast is such a stupid move its not even funny. Moonblast is like the Scald for special attackers, although the drop isn't permanent like a burn is, moonblast's effect still works on status'd pokemon which kinda makes up for it. Also because of the fact that Moonblast has BP of 95 which makes it stronger than not only scald but Surf, Thunderbolt, etc.

Bunnelby: I used a LO Agility set and it was pretty much the definition of high risk, high reward. If it set up on a switch, it would destroy everything however it was very hard to set up sometimes, and most of the time that I did it was because I bluffed a scarf set. I actually haven't used Scarf yet, but the agility set was O.K.

Mantyke: I was pleasantly surprised by the Rain Dance set, as Mantyke gets switches on a lot of common stuff right now and can easily set up. With Rain and Hydro Pump, it can 2HKO most walls with ease so it can be a decent wall breaker and a cleaner as well. I kinda wish it had more power though, I was using eviolite because of the bulk, but Life Orb might be an option too as I believe Mantyke can hit 19 HP. Still, I didn't think the Rain Dance set would be any good but it is.

 

[Ray Jay]

Shouting Just wondering what makes you think Stunky w/ Play Rough and Sucker Punch is illegal... You can breed Female Stunky with Sucker Punch + Male Smeargle with Play Rough and Sucker Punch to get both moves onto the child as they are both in the field egg group. IDK I could be missing something...

Anyways, onto your actual points: Spritzee. I feel you hit the nail on the head. Spritzee's combination of bulk and typing is stupid good, and clericing on teams is sooooo good with how much status is going around right now (Slowpoke, Misdreavus, Porygon). I think this thing deserves a lot more use, it walls a ton of things and is easily the best "bulky" fairy type right now if you can't afford to run the offensive behemoth that is swirlix.

As for Bunnelby, Scarf indeed seems to be the more common set right now. Scarf bunnelby ohkoes or 2hkoes the world with return, and has some great coverage with EQ as well. Just curious what everyone is using to counter Bunnelby because right now it seems like most of the things people use such as Misdreavus just don't counter it (prone to getting blasted by thief, also doesn't have any super reliable recovery)... almost makes me want to run Koffing, who seems like it can wall bunny + tite + gligar at the same time while also handling Swirlix. Then again I haven't tested this guy so I would need to do some research on that!

 

[Shouting]

Sucker Punch actually isn't an egg move for Stunky, it can only get it through the Dream World. Therefore you need to transfer to get Stunky with Sucker Punch but at that point you can't breed it to get Play Rough.

And as for bunnelby I think Ferroseed, Archen, Misdreavus, and Pumpkaboo are the best answers to it. Archen probably needs Rapid Spin / Defog support though.

Koffing is very ant-meta too, it checks so many things it's ridiculous. It would probably function best with Wish support since Resttalk is inconvenient and Pain Split is less than ideal.

 

[Heysup]

Honedge: Terrible in all honesty, at least right now. Gilgar, Tangela, and Vullaby shut it down completely as well as fire types. It struggles to do much of anything when these three are all relatively popular. The most success I had was with an Automize set with Shadow Claw / Sacred Sword / Hidden Power Ice with a life orb, but its really not that powerful and even with Hidden Power Ice Vullaby and Tangela can still take it on. Now that most fightng types carry knock off, it has trouble switching in, although it can wall Meditite which is something.

Since when is countering Meditite and Yanma "terrible"? I have to strongly disagree. Then again Automize is not the way to go, nor is Life Orb.

Swords Dance + Berry Juice is the best set by a large amount. It's not hard to lure Gligar out and weaken it to the point where it can't take a +2-4 Shadow Sneak. I'm not sure how Vullaby wins if it switches in on Swords Dance and gets Iron Headed, especially once it's knocked off. Tangela has similar problems with Knock Off.

I've been using it on a joke-ish team and it's done very well on it so far.

 

[Shouting]

Honedge doesn't counter Yanma, it gets OHKO'd by Hidden Power Ground.

It is very hard to get to +4, even with berry juice because knock off is everywhere, or it just gets hit with a special move which OHKOs it because it has no special bulk at all.

I don't believe Honedge has access to knock off, and in reality I can say that life orb azurill in trick room is amazing because it OHKOs everything without an item but that doesn't mean azurill is good. In fact most knock offs will OHKO honegde with just a bit of prior damage. For example Vullaby can actually OHKO Honedge with a bit of prior damage with knock off and Vullaby naturally outspeeds Honedge even without investment. Tangela is also naturally faster and can put it to sleep and KO it with hidden power fire.

If you can survive a Shadow Sneak and are faster than 12 speed (or 9 if investing in bulk, at which point you rely on it even more) then you pretty much won against honedge. Ponyta, Staryu, Gilgar, defensive misdreavus, Bunnelby, Scraggy, Swirlx with flamethrower, Pawniard, Houndour, Carvanha, Growlithe, Fletchling, Larvesta, Murkrow, Stunky, and Vulpix. There are probably more but that it a very long list.

 

[Chieliee]

honedge actually doesn't get OHKO'd by Life Orb Modest Yanma, as most Honedge run a few SpDef EV's.
252+ SpA Life Orb Yanma Hidden Power Ground vs. 156 HP / 140 SpD Honedge: 18-23 (78.2 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

 

[Shouting]

Even so, that still isn't a counter by any means. In fact it isn't even a check, as even if it switches in on Bug Buzz or Air Slash that is enough to KO it with hidden power ground and Yanma does not get KO'd by a +0 Shadow Sneak.

 

[prem]

i havent really used honedge in a LONG time, but from what i remember it really did put in work. also being a hard counter to meditite is probably one of the best things in the world. obviously it loses to special attackers, but it clearly isnt supposed to beat them when you look at its stats lol

what i am going to say is everyone should use Tesshiido. shit is so good right now. its typing is great for beating gligar, dwebble, tirtouga, carvanha, speed boost yanma, bulky tangela, and honestly just being annoying. i would never use spikes in lc cause thats way too slow, but a simple set of sr, twave, leech seed, and bullet seed lets it beat a lot of the game, especially since it can take some fire takes from weak stuff( swirlix) and proceed to status it. leech seed is also great as a bad wish that either forces your opponent to switch out or just gives you a lot of health over time. bullet seed is also fucking amazing with all the sturdy crap around, easily breaking a tirtougas / dwebbles sturdy after berry juice, making it easy to revenge

also v says its banned and who doesnt want to ignore v?

 

[Sergetank]

It's Ferroseed if you're 'murican.

But yeah, I can attest to Ferroseed's fuck you mentality to quite a lot of things in the tier. But for walls I prefer Spritzee; a fully invested one can wall tons of special attackers, and it can easily shrug off bullet punches from meditite if you go impish. It's cash. Spritzee doesn't get mentioned a lot, Swirlix seems to be the hot fairy, but Spritzee seems like the number one healer / 2nd best special wall. And bonus no 4x weakness to anything unlike Mantyke who is still awesome but goddamn it guy.

 

[macle]

honestly ferroseed and spritzee play completely differently from another. Ferroseed is more about setting up hazards while Spritzee is more about healing your sweepers. Its like comparing apples and oranges.

 

[Heysup]

Honedge doesn't counter Yanma, it gets OHKO'd by Hidden Power Ground.

1) Life Orb is not as common as it used to be on Yanma, so those Air Slash/Bug Buzz/Hypnosis variants don't do shit.

2) Even with LO, HP Ground is a shitty move; there are better things to put in that slot.

3) It doesn't OHKO it.

It is very hard to get to +4, even with berry juice because knock off is everywhere, or it just gets hit with a special move which OHKOs it because it has no special bulk at all.

I don't believe Honedge has access to knock off, and in reality I can say that life orb azurill in trick room is amazing because it OHKOs everything without an item but that doesn't mean azurill is good. In fact most knock offs will OHKO honegde with just a bit of prior damage. For example Vullaby can actually OHKO Honedge with a bit of prior damage with knock off and Vullaby naturally outspeeds Honedge even without investment. Tangela is also naturally faster and can put it to sleep and KO it with hidden power fire.

If you can survive a Shadow Sneak and are faster than 12 speed (or 9 if investing in bulk, at which point you rely on it even more) then you pretty much won against honedge. Ponyta, Staryu, Gilgar, defensive misdreavus, Bunnelby, Scraggy, Swirlx with flamethrower, Pawniard, Houndour, Carvanha, Growlithe, Fletchling, Larvesta, Murkrow, Stunky, and Vulpix. There are probably more but that it a very long list.

As demonstrated, its special bulk is not as bad as you think (it's really bad, but Berry Juice turns anything that doesn't OHKO into a 3HKO).

You said Vullaby counters it which it doesn't, since if you switch into a Swords Dance, Iron Head + Sneak always KOes with SR.

Staryu: ??? Doesn't come close. 3HKOes with Surf and gets KOed by Sacred Sword + Sneak.

Swirlix: Doesn't OHKO with Flamethrower, loses to Iron Head.

Larvesta: If it uses Flare Blitz it dies to SR and Sneak.

I sort of just picked the ones that jumped out on me but I would probably guess Fletchling (are u srsly going to use SpA Overheat?) non Heat Wave Murkrow and more of those Fire-types have problems. Also defensive missy? houndour? Stunky? We must be playing a different metagame of those are common.

I mean going through a list of Pokemon that can check Honedge is great but as I've already shown, it's not as easy to OHKO it as you think. It's not a top-tier Pokemon, but it's definitely not "terrible".

 

[Shouting]

Vullaby only loses with stealth rock, if there is no stealth rock (which Vullaby often carries defog and has roost to keep heathy) Vullaby always wins.

Swirlx may not always have a clean KO, but if honedge switches into stealth rock just twice it can definitely be KO'd by flamethrower.

Larvesta outspeeds honedge, it can just Will-o-Wisp to burn. it doesn't need to immediately KO with Flare Blitz. There is no way that honedge is ever beating a healthy Larvesta.

Growlithe Intimidates, outspeeds and burns, and KOs with flamethrower. Ponyta does more or less the same thing.

116 SpAtk Overheat (which is standard? not many Fletchling use max speed) from Fletchlng KOs Honedge after stealth rock.

Defensive Misdreavus is not uncommon, probably just as common as Nasty Plot ones. In fact even at +2 Honedge only has a 6% chance to KO 36 HP eviolite Misdreavus and it just KOs back with shadow ball.

Houndour is a very legitamite threat, it is a very good offensive check to many things such as Vulpix, Growlithe, Pawniard, Tangela, etc. and many teams have problems with it as Slowpoke is often the bulky water of choice on many teams because it can handle Meditite and Gilgar and it is very weak to houndour.

And another point - what exactly are you going to set up on? Meditite? Even if Yanma doesn't carry HP Ground, it still can just put you to sleep on the spot. Mienfoo, timburr, croagunk all carry knock off. Flying types? Gilgar KOs with Earthquake, Murkrow does the same with heat wave, Vullaby has knock off, and Flecthling has Overheat so you can't really set up on any common flying type. Fairy types? You can only set up on Sprtizee really, since Swirlx almost always carries Flamethrower and Snubbull carries earthquake. Grass types? Tangela commonly uses Hidden Power Fire, and if it doesn't, it is definitely carrying knock off. Even without them, it still has sleep powder. You can't even set up on Munchlax if they carry earthquake.

 

[Heysup]

I missed good old megathread debates.

Vullaby only loses with stealth rock, if there is no stealth rock (which Vullaby often carries defog and has roost to keep heathy) Vullaby always wins.

Swirlx may not always have a clean KO, but if honedge switches into stealth rock just twice it can definitely be KO'd by flamethrower.

Larvesta outspeeds honedge, it can just Will-o-Wisp to burn. it doesn't need to immediately KO with Flare Blitz. There is no way that honedge is ever beating a healthy Larvesta.

How does Vullaby get Stealth Rock off the field before it comes in? Also, it can't Defog if it switches into Honedge because it will get KOed before even denting Honedge.

Switches into Stealth Rock twice? After most of your arguments are based on the fact that Stealth Rock is not set up? That's a one-sided absurdity.

Honedge isn't beating a healthy Larvesta, because there's only rare occasions where Larvesta is coming in with more than 50% due to SR.

Growlithe Intimidates, outspeeds and burns, and KOs with flamethrower. Ponyta does more or less the same thing.

116 SpAtk Overheat (which is standard? not many Fletchling use max speed) from Fletchlng KOs Honedge after stealth rock.

Defensive Misdreavus is not uncommon, probably just as common as Nasty Plot ones. In fact even at +2 Honedge only has a 6% chance to KO 36 HP eviolite Misdreavus and it just KOs back with shadow ball.

Growlithe, yes. Ponyta can't switch in (+2 Sneak followed by burned Sneak KOes it, Flare Blitz means it KOes itself). I haven't seen Overheat Fletchling in a long time but I did admit it was an option, just, again, not a common one.

As for Defensive Missy, I have literally never seen one (with Eviolite) and it still unreliable at best as you say.

Houndour is a very legitamite threat, it is a very good offensive check to many things such as Vulpix, Growlithe, Pawniard, Tangela, etc. and many teams have problems with it as Slowpoke is often the bulky water of choice on many teams because it can handle Meditite and Gilgar and it is very weak to houndour.

I never said it wasn't good I said it's not common and it's not a significant reason to consider Honedge "terrible".

And another point - what exactly are you going to set up on? Meditite? Even if Yanma doesn't carry HP Ground, it still can just put you to sleep on the spot. Mienfoo, timburr, croagunk all carry knock off. Flying types? Gilgar KOs with Earthquake, Murkrow does the same with heat wave, Vullaby has knock off, and Flecthling has Overheat so you can't really set up on any common flying type. Fairy types? You can only set up on Sprtizee really, since Swirlx almost always carries Flamethrower and Snubbull carries earthquake. Grass types? Tangela commonly uses Hidden Power Fire, and if it doesn't, it is definitely carrying knock off. Even without them, it still has sleep powder. You can't even set up on Munchlax if they carry earthquake.

Meditite is the main one, yes. There aren't many Pokemon that fit the role of Meditite counter, so that gives it a very prominent niche in the metagame especially since Meditite is so threatening and common and unlike with Slowpoke, you don't lose momentum with Honedge. Besides Meditite:

Munchlax doesn't carry Earthquake. Various other attacks that you have suggested that don't actually OHKO. All fairy types you listed lose (including Snubbull and especially the increasingly common BD Swirlix). Forced switches. It's not in Sneasel's league at all, but to say that there are no opportunities to set up is ridiculous.

 

[Chieliee]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oriserver-pokebanklcbeta-60348

Heysup, my Vullaby didn't lose. Twas a 50/50 but ya. I'm on phone so i can't run calcs so idk if this was min damage or your calcs were wrong

 

[Heysup]

I dunno.
Stealth Rock 5-6?
+2 196+ Atk Honedge Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 236 Def Eviolite Vullaby: 13-16 (56.5 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock = 15 average
+2 Shadow Sneak 3-4.

Grade 3 math dictates 5+15+3 = 23 at the very least.

So either you run Bold / (can still get KOed) or Bold + HP EVs or he runs not max attack. I dunno.

 

[Liquidocelot]

My favorite pokemon to use this gen is this

Pawniward DeFianT
Eviolite
212 att 196 def 146 spD (cant remember exact ev spread im on my phone)
Knock off
Iron head
Sucker punch
Brick break

I love using this thing because it 2 hits the entire meta and is suprisingly bulky too. I love it when someone switches in a gligar and you can ko with s-punch plus knock off and still have around 15% not to mention its the steel type to resist ghost now. And its the best stab knock off user in the tier (maybe scraggy) plus the single best check there is to sticky web teams. The reason i dont use sd is because it already 2 hit kos the entire meta and with brick break nothing in the entire meta resists it.

 

[Expulso]

SubPawniard is pretty damn awesome. Set up a Sub, and proceed to 2hko things. If you're behind a sub, with a Defiant boost...*shudder*

 

[Phemeto]

My favorite pokemon to use this gen is this

Pawniward DeFianT
Eviolite
212 att 196 def 146 spD (cant remember exact ev spread im on my phone)
Knock off
Iron head
Sucker punch
Brick break

I love using this thing because it 2 hits the entire meta and is suprisingly bulky too. I love it when someone switches in a gligar and you can ko with s-punch plus knock off and still have around 15% not to mention its the steel type to resist ghost now. And its the best stab knock off user in the tier (maybe scraggy) plus the single best check there is to sticky web teams. The reason i dont use sd is because it already 2 hit kos the entire meta and with brick break nothing in the entire meta resists it.

Fear the Croagunk

Croagunk @ Eviolite
Ability: Dry Skin
Level: 5
EVs: 132 HP / 188 SAtk / 116 Def / 36 SDef / 36 Atk
Modest Nature
- Dark Pulse / Knock Off
- Fake Out
- Vacuum Wave
- Sludge Wave

188+ SpA Croagunk Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 146 SpD Eviolite Pawniard: 16-24 (76.1 - 114.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+ Fake-out

 

[Electrolyte]

Actually I don't feel as if Pawniard will ever use (or ever need to use) anything other than Swords Dance, Sucker Punch, Knock Off, Iron Head, and maybe Brick Break. Sucker Punch / Knock Off / Iron Head are all extremely necessary for the set; without SPunch priority you can easily get KOd by almost anything faster, and without Knock Off / Iron Head, you lose vital attacking tools that can defenitely cripple and smash your opponent to pieces. Knock Off and Iron Head are just so good on Pawniard that there really is nothing better that you can possibly use. Swords Dance is also pretty necessary on Pawniard; while it may not always get the chance to set up, once it does, it's a monster, so not giving it that ability really hurts it, imo. Brick Break is much less of a necessity now that Dark-type hits Steel-types neutrally, but you can still use it, I guess (though SPunch + Iron Head are near perfect coverage by themselves now.) Running anything else over those moves is really a waste, in my opinion, because they're are just so good and give Pawniard everything it needs to succeed already. Substitute is cool and all but Pawniard really has no room for it on a set, nor should it even Sub up as opposed to Swords Dance if given the chance.


This has also been brought up before but I agree with prem in that Gligar is actually not outstandingly powerful. If well played, it has a lot of function and utility both offensively and defensively in the field, but the problem is that it's always just so overcountered by every team that finding situations where you can knock out multiple opponents at once is really rare. The lack of Flying Gem in Gen 6 also really hurts it; it now has to wait for its Berry Juice to be activated or knocked off before it can deal any real damage to Ground-type resists. The popularity of Flying-types such as Murkrow, Yanma, and Vullaby are really hurting Gligar's viability, because without a full power Acrobatics all it can really do is maybe set / remove entry hazards and then leave. Also, an increasing amount of Water-types and Ice-type coverage attackers makes it hard for Gligar to actually set up in the first place, and it receives cutthroat competition from other Flying-types, Fairy-types and Ghost-types as the tier's prime Fighting-type counter, drastically reducing its most prominent niche in past generations.

However, this is definitely again not to say that Gligar is a bad Pokemon; it's still a solid top-tier Pokemon that can support its team in many ways. Unfortunately, it does lack quite a bit offensively, and is finding its niche in the meta shrinking more and more as time passes. Right now, a lot of people really only slap Gligar on their team for hazard control and some sort of speedy offensive support, but in battles it's usually only used to control hazards and use a relatively speedy Knock Off (a job that it also has a lot of competition with.) Gligar's best set in past Generations, Swords Dance AcroGem, is also much less powerful for the reasons above. While Gligar does have a new niche as the best hazard controlling Pokemon in the tier right now, it has lost a lot of what it used to have and is definitely no longer as great as it used to be, in my opinion.


Just as a final metagame statement, I am really content with at least the framework of the current metagame. Although there are things that might (probably) be broken, there are multiple top tier threats and a boatload of middle tier Pokemon to use, so much so that when teambuilding it's impossible to just slap every single top tier Pokemon onto one team and call it a day, since there are bound to be more that you can't use and won't cover by doing so. While the meta still has a long ways to go before being truly stable, I'm glad that we at least have so much more to work with now in comparison to last Generation, where we literally only had like 4 or 5 top tier threats.