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General Metagame Discussion

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Matthew, Oct 28, 2011.

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  1. Xephyr

    Xephyr

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    I think rain stall is pretty effective right now. HO teams have trouble getting through the defensive diversity of rain stall and all of its irritating hazards and the like. Quagsire is also excellent at the moment, because most HO teams aren't carrying grass moves. Physically defensive and Dragonite Outrages aren't that big of a deal.
  2. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed "Smogon friends" is an oxymoron.
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    The metagame is practically leaking of rain stall (consisting of Tentacruel, Perish Song Politoed, and Eviolite Chansey), and some even go as far as making bulky offensive teams that combine Drizzle with Volt-Turn teams. Everytime I go to ladder in OU, I grimace everytime I see Scizor and Rotom-W. On a Drizzle team. It's so obvious it practically hurts me.

    Going on with the Xatu conversation: so I'm just wondering: why would one use Xatu other other than the occasional Magic Bounce and paralysis support when you could get a no-limits Rapid Spin user instead?
  3. fatty

    fatty
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    speaking of rain stall, i've been meaning to discuss the various versions of weather stall, sun in particular. I've seen rain, sand and hail stall ran fairly effectively, but i've yet to see a "dominant" sun stall. sub seed venusaur, cresselia, spd heatran and more all seem theyd perform very well in a sun stall team, so it's not like there isn't options. so, what's stopping sun stall from being a top tier playstyle? or, does it have a lot of undiscovered potential in the current metagame?
  4. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed "Smogon friends" is an oxymoron.
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    Sunlight really doesn't offer many benefits outside of offering Chlorophyll users a Speed boost and weakening Water-type attacks. Outside of those, you'd be hard-pressed to find a defensive Pokemon that actually works well in this so-called 'sun stall'. (doesn't Leaf Guard seem contradictory with Grass-type Pokemon?) Ninetales doesn't offer much defensive synergy to the table whereas Politoed does (who, additionally, can use better attacking moves suited for defensive playstyles), and many sun abusers are hard-pressed to do things defensively. Granted, this kind of team theoretically give rain teams trouble, but in the end, it's a random scale of who stalls out who. I guess the closest thing we can get to sun stall is bulky balanced teams.
  5. Smith

    Smith is a 90's bitch
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    I actually have a sun stall team, it doesn't rely on sun a terrible amount but it lets me use Forretress a bit better (imo since he has a pseudo water resist) and a Chandelure as a spin blocker, who's actually a really underrated mon- with hazards support and sun he just PUNCHES HOLES in teams. I can also use Chansey without shitting my pants everytime the opponent has a SS or hail mon.
  6. Xephyr

    Xephyr

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    Dear people of DST: is the rise of Terrakion and Lucario putting you down? Do you just wish that they would go the fuck away? Well I'm here to present to you one of the greatest possible answers to these Pokemon that will be giving your opponent's fits for days!

    Nidoqueen (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Earth Power
    - Flamethrower
    - Ice Beam

    Meet the boss. She's a woman, but she doesn't take no for an answer, because she's going to fuck you up. Double Dance Terrakion thinks it can rule the field with its Close Combats and Stone Edges? Fuck that, Nidoqueen resists both and pummels him with an Earth Power. Rain stall teams giving you trouble with their abundant toxic spikes? Nidoqueen steps right in and fucking eats that shit. Lucario got a Swords Dance on you? lolok, cause Close Combat tickles and the motherfucker's getting OHKO'd by Earth Power or Flamethrower, take your pick.
  7. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast It hasn't been as nice at night these last few days
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    Weavile is really good, everyone. Freaking fast and strong. With STAB Ice and Dark moves alongside Fake Out, it's one of the best Dragon killers in the tier. Its only flaw is really it's low BP, but it's not too big of a deal (I mean, even if it got Icicle Drop I'd use Punch anyway).
  8. Lithium_Catalysis

    Lithium_Catalysis

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    I have been noticing a few annoying Weavile, yes. I'm glad it's seeing more use, it deserves it.
    I've been using Zapdos to a decent extent, as well. In fact, there are quite a few UU Pokémon who don't do too badly in OU...I like to use them because it adds a little flavour to a team, not just your everyday OU team.
  9. Taylor

    Taylor stardust infinite
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    encore is fast becomming one of my favourite moves and wobbuffet/politoed can abuse its effect really well for the other members of your team to take advantage of. if you're aware how lucario can swiftly remove enemy threats out of the game, at the mercy of a swords dance boost, then you will find wobbuffet's encore to be an absolute blessing at any given moment of a match.

    no it doesnt have to be lucario who benefits from the free turn, but we understand how game-changing this move can be when used properly.
  10. Tenodera

    Tenodera

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    Poison/Ground can be quite convenient defensive typing in this metagame. I agree about Terrakion, but how many Luke still run Ice Punch? That might be troublesome.
  11. Xephyr

    Xephyr

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    Not that many, surprisingly. People are more concerned with Gengar and shit so they run Crunch.

    And even when they do run Ice Punch, this replay kind of shows that it doesn't matter cause Nidoqueen rocks.
    http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-PozoAlmonte-vs-XephyR--2011-11-17
  12. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
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    Unfortunately, the value of Encore will never be recognized and its the reason why Whimsicott is UU. The utility of a priority encore or even just encore isn't very appealing because it seems so situational on face value. In the end, teams feel that even an extra sweeper uses the teamslot better than the utility to such a down sweepers and screen/hazards set-uppers. Likewise, a moveslot for an extra coverage move or healing move/status.
  13. SlimMan

    SlimMan

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    +2 Adamant LO Ice Punch has a very slight chance to OHKO max/max Bold Nidqueen.
    It has a pretty good chance with SR up.

    That aside, Xephyr is right. Nidoqueen is a boss.
  14. IcyMan28

    IcyMan28

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    I haven't played in a while due to school, but I was wondering what people's thoughts are on Cradily.

    Its uses are limited but it does have a niche in Sand as we all know. Now that it has Storm Drain as its DW ability, it adds yet another dimension in the form of absorbing water-type attacks while still benefitting from the sandstorm boost and being sufficiently sturdy with access to Recover. It's typing is a bit more exposed than Gastrodon's (Fighting and Ice weaknesses hurt), but is somewhat remedied by its ability to use Stealth Rock and the SpD boost reducing the impact of stray Ice Beams.
  15. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
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    I had used Cradily on my Sand Team for a while and it was a great switchin against Choice Locked Politoed's. Cradily has Grass attacks to threaten Water types better than Gastrodon ever could. I could just switch back in from Cradily and ensure the boost.

    The problem I found with Cradily after a while is that it needs Sand to be a great special wall. If there is a weather war involved, 50% of the battle your SpD won't be 516, but just 344. So it goes from great to decent with horrible typing :o. It's water immunity and electric resist are good for rain, but its typing can't capitalize on anything else.

    Cradily can take neutral hits better than Gastrodon in the sand. But outside of that Gastrodon is better because of his superior typing (1 weakness more resists) and he doesn't need to rely on Sandstorm.
  16. alphatron

    alphatron Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!

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    Grass/Rock isn't that bad. It has its perks, like not being weak to ground or fire anymore.

    I don't like cradily because its setup fodder for anything that uses substitute. It performs well when it comes to taking hits but it underperforms everywhere else. Great switch in for offensive politoed, starmie, and non toxic jellicient though.
  17. Red Alert

    Red Alert

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    And then when you force him into focus blast you just have him miss 4 times in a row to get some free switches and setup...
  18. Alchemist Fullmetal

    Alchemist Fullmetal

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    So how do you guys deal with rain stall?
    It seems to really my only problem. Ferrothorn hates repeated Scalds thatll eventually burn him, theres Gliscor just to stop anything with grass moves, Gastrodon/Quagsire stop Volt-Turning. The only thing I can think of is Celebi, who loses to Scizor and Tornadus in rain.
  19. complete legitimacy

    complete legitimacy Honko's Happy Funtime With Men
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    Without weather, your best option is to run something that hits really hard, like CB Terrakion or Specs Latios. I use CB Terrakion, but I use a classic MixMence as a Gliscor lure as well to prevent that from stopping my sweep.

    It's also about time I hype up classic MixMence. It's ridiculously anti-meta. Intimidate is still a great ability. Draco Meteor destroys Gliscor and Slowbro, Fire Blast gets rid of Skarm and Ferro, and Brick Break lays waste the Chansey/Blissey and Tyranitar when they think it's safe to come in.
  20. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Alchemist Fullmetal, I am sure that Celebi kills CB Scizor after +2 HP Fire. Earth Power is also really useful for taking out those CM Jirachi and Toxicroak. Tornadus is annoying, especially for a Celebi user, so I suggest having a solid Hurricane resist, like Jirachi. Tornadus is easy otherwise to check with SR + Starmie / Scarfer.

    Latios also does a good job in crippling Rain stall, either by tricking its choice item or hitting stuff hard with CM + LO-boosted Psyshock, HP Fire, and Draco Meteor.

    Just fyi, complete legitimacy, Mix Dragonite is very slow (196 Spe), but it has a stronger Brick Break, Draco Meteor, and Fire Blast, since it can invest in both offenses and ditch Speed. It also has ExtremeSpeed to even check mons that are faster than Salamence, although Salamence can DMeteor / FBlast / BBreak semi-fast mons like Dragonite, Lucario, Haxorus, thanks to its Speed.

    EDIT: okay, saw your team, Salamence actually has higher Draco Meteor and Fire Blast, since Mixmence is often Rash than Naive, so my bad. Dragonite's main advantage would be its ExtremeSpeed then.
  21. complete legitimacy

    complete legitimacy Honko's Happy Funtime With Men
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    I agree, Dragonite also sports a viable mixed set. It has more durability and power. However, Salamence is not without its uses. It has the speed to check what you listed above. And although Multiscale is one of the best abilities in the game, Intimidate is great as well, checking literally anything that relies on physical moves. It's better that it doesn't get as much usage, so it has the unpredictability value going for it too. I see too many people on the ladder using Moxie and Fire Fang. I mean, Moxie is kind of niche, but Fire Fang is downright awful and should never be used.
  22. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Actually MultiScale is a very situational ability on MixNite, since it is broken the same turn MixNite attacks and receives LO recoil. Intimidate is more consistent and useful imo.
  23. complete legitimacy

    complete legitimacy Honko's Happy Funtime With Men
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    Okay, so we've reached the same conclusion: Salamence runs a better mixed set. It's not very common, but neither is MixNite. That has its pros and cons. While it should get more usage, if it does it will lose the surprise factor. It will be interesting to see this month's usage stats.
  24. Alchemist Fullmetal

    Alchemist Fullmetal

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    Alright thanks, Ill give Rachi and Mixmence a try.
  25. NoUserName

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    I agree with you, I used defensive Cradily with Storm Drain on a UU Sandstorm team because I hated too much Scald, and it sucked, the only way to damage something is by Toxic.
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