SPOILERS! General Pokémon Anime Discussion

I never thought of it being Zygarde's new forme. I wondered if they could already have finished some of the new Pokémon for the next generation? I can't help but remember that mask based off of this mysterious 'hero' Pokémon that we haven't seen yet, and can't help wonder if maybe this is it?
 

Cresselia~~

Junichi Masuda likes this!!
I never thought of it being Zygarde's new forme. I wondered if they could already have finished some of the new Pokémon for the next generation? I can't help but remember that mask based off of this mysterious 'hero' Pokémon that we haven't seen yet, and can't help wonder if maybe this is it?
They would have finished Gen 7 Pokemon by now, but I don't think they would leak new Pokes so early.
Also, "Is this a new Pokemon!?" has a question mark on it. Knowing Pokemon, whenever they put a question mark, it's usually not true.
So it's probably not a new Pokemon.
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
is a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
It resembles somewhat a Tree Human.(Yggdrasil)
It has hexagonal shapes, which glows

You seriously want to tell me that this thing is not related to Zygarde? Puhlease! We even have Thousand Arrows/Waves as "catch the other legendaries" moves against Yvetal/Xerneas.
It makes way to much sense
Ooh, you have an interesting idea with it being Yggdrasil! The Mortality Trio are based on some of the mythical Norse creatures surrounding it. Xerneas is based on the stags around its base (though there's also another stag in Norse mythology who resides in Valhalla that has glowing horns), Yveltal is based on eagles who sits on top in the branches (though there's an eagle who is called the "corpse eater" who sits at the end of the world), and Zygarde is based on a serpent who gnaws at the roots (though there's another serpent in Norse mythology who encircles the world). With those exceptions in mind, Zygarde turning into a Yggdrasil-like giant (giants being another popular part of Norse Mythology) would make sense, especially if its to stop Xerneas and Yveltal.
 
I wonder why they waited so long to have Serena capture pokemon. She went 47 episodes with only her starter, and even just now 89 episodes into the show she's just now making her second capture, her upcoming Eevee.

I'm guessing Serena is only going to have like 4 pokemon total by the end of the generation. Which would be similar to Iris in BW. I would have liked to see Serena with a full team like May and Dawn but that's probably not going to happen at this point.
 

Codraroll

Cod Mod
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
Moderator
^The problem the writers will face if everybody had a full team, is the classic one of too many characters. I mean, you've got like five human trainers to follow (twerp trio + Team Rocket duo), and if all of them were to have a full team of Pokémon each, we'd be looking at almost three dozen regular characters to follow, in addition to "characters of the day" (plus the "Pokémon of the day", as the show seems to favour featuring one new Pokémon in every episode). That means very, very little screen time per character. Then the writers would face the following dilemma:

1) Giving next to no screen time to any Pokémon. This means 1a) not letting many of them grow/evolve at all or 1b) letting them grow/evolve without on-screen development
2) Cutting back on the plot (or should I say "plot") to focus almost solely on character (Pokémon) development in order to move them all forward. That means less time for the "character of the day" and his/her relevant "plot" and Pokémon.
3) Cutting back on Pikachu time to give the other Pokémon some time to develop.

Going for 1) makes for quite poor storytelling. 1a) was explored with Misty, who seemed to have a Goldeen for practically no reason at all, and Staryu/Starmie which were used interchangeably with no development whatsoever. Ah, weren't these Pokémon truly vital for the plot?
2) would be great, story-telling wise, but it'd be a bad desicion overall: This gradual introduction to Pokémon and their concepts, as explored via the "character of the day" is the very backbone of the series, seeing as it's primarily meant to be a commercial/tutorial for the games. The series does not exist to tell a good story, it's all extended marketing and not intended for people who already know the "advanced basics" of Pokémon.
3) would, of course, be a brilliant compromise, but Pikachu is far too marketable to be away from the screen for more than thirty seconds.

So all in all, it's way easier (lazier) to just keep the number of Pokémon down, and preferrably also assign most of them a "gag" role so they can play out their part in an episode in a three-second sight gag. For instance James' Chimecho which mostly existed to add its voice to the Team Rocket motto, or Goldeen whose entire shtick was "Oops, she picked the wrong Poké Ball, haha the fish on land is useless". That way, the show can focus more on Pikachu blasting away Team Rocket for literally the thousandth time, or Ash learning another valuable lesson and finding a new friend, neither of which he'll ever address again.

Let's just all face it, the Anime isn't meant to be good the way we'd like it to be. It's there to sell the games and the merchandise.
 
Well yeah I agree, and that was the problem with a lot of Misty and Brock's Pokemon. Misty and Brock had almost full teams in the series but we rarely saw any of their pokemon do much of anything, outside of the comedic ones like Psyduck and Croagunk.

Does anyone remember anything Brock's Crobat did? Or his Foretress? Even his Ludicolo barely got any episodes after it evolves. And back in Kanto/Johto Brock mainly just used his Onix, Geodude went long gaps without doing anything and Vulpix barely appeared before he gave it back to Suzie.

And yeah with Misty, they mainly just focused on Psyduck while the rest of her pokemon were just used to put out fires or to blast off TR from time to time. Her only other decently handled pokemon was Poliwhirl.
 
The manga did tone down the relevance of individual Pokémon (compared to the anime at least) and focused development mostly on the trainers. This would be an option to give trainers more Pokémon and also make the battles more game-like (switch if you're in a bad matchup). However, as the Pokémon are more interesting to the franchise than the trainers, it's not going to happen (and, in my opinion, a perfectly good way to handle it) - 5-6 Pokémon for Ash + a rival character, 3-4 for major supporting characters (Team Rocket counting as one character for this) and 1-2 for one-off trainers.

Anyways, there's a few things that I personally find disrespectful to the franchise:

1. Major roles in the game being extremely out of character - this is primarily noticeable in Gen 1, though there's a few modern examples (such as Colress).

Here's my opinions on the Gen 1 cast:

Professor Oak: Him being a poet is a nice addition to his character without being unreasonably out of place. Otherwise, it's also quite clever for him to manage Ash's boxed Pokémon.

Gary: Just as arrogant as in the games - he's one of the most popular characters for a reason. Still, I would have liked to see him use more Pokémon (Exeggutor, Gyarados and Rhydon come to mind)

Brock: Proof that Anime makers can't survive without shoehorning in a pervert. It's this cliché that keeps most people away from the medium. There's several animes who don't do that, but there's more than enough that do to convince the majority of people that anime is pervy.

Misty: There isn't really much that violates her in-game personality, but most of her character is just two traits: "Girl" and "Water-Type user"

Bill: Only thing worth mentioning is that they changed the DNA thing to a costume. Turning people into Pokémon might've been too big of a deal (still, there's Satochu). I guess they wanted to make something that's easier to animate or doesn't involve Ash handling a PC.

Lt. Surge: I think his condescending attitude is a little jarring, but not exactly unreasonable.

Erika: Way too exaggerated in her behavior - she's much more quiet in the game. Also, makes use of fart innuendos in battle - I think the writers forgot the move Petal Dance exists.

Koga: He's a ninja master. One of the few characters to be better than in the game - not only is his ninja presence more pronounced, he uses a much more fitting Pokémon (Venomoth instead of Weezing/Muk).

Sabrina: I don't know what made the editors turn the most peaceful character into a psychopath (forget the whip, Sabrina lets TR run free in Saffron and didn't do anything as you cleaned up). I guess they wanted to show off the Psychic-Type even more (even in Gen 1, it wasn't that good) and give a hint that is blatantly wrong (no, Gen 1 ghosts can't do squat against Psychics, but Chansey laughs at most of them).

Blaine: I like how they gave him a character trait based on his gym, but I think it might be a little overdone. It's a give and take, though, as his dialgoue isn't as hammy.

Giovanni: While is portrayal as a typical crime boss is alright, I don't like how much the writers bent over backwards to make sure Ash never encounters him. They could've easily made him get away after his plans were foiled, like all kid cartoons handle main villains.

Lorelei: Remember what Sabrina was like? It would have made perfect sense if Lorelei was the vicious, sadist freak who has no compassion for her opponents. Instead, she's just a typical study girl. Perfect chance to make a great introduction for the Elite 4 challenge, but if there's one thing the writers love, it's wasting potential.

Bruno: He barely even appears onscreen. All I remember is him showing up in battle in the first episode.

Agatha: Doesn't exist until Gen 2, where all of her canon traits are discarded and she's a random hermit instead. What.

Lance: Doesn't show up until Gen 2, either. Not even there does a get a significant role (his ties to Blackthorn City are written out, as is the fact he's the champion of the region).

Rambling over, next point:

2. Mishandling of the various types

I get it that you need to beat a Pokémon and not its type, but it's way too often that the Pokémon are better at countering things they're weak to than to fight things their own type (just look at Pikachu vs. Water Pokémon compared to his performance against Ground-Types). It goes to a point where you're stupid for actually trying to go for type weaknesses. Not to mention that a few type matchups are simply forgotten (Ghost is ineffective against Normal, but Noctowl is still vulnerable to Shadow Ball). There's also the fact that Psychic-Types are impervious to virtually anything and most moves of the type are interchangeable. At least they got the 'Dark is immune to Psychic' right.
 

Cresselia~~

Junichi Masuda likes this!!
The manga did tone down the relevance of individual Pokémon (compared to the anime at least) and focused development mostly on the trainers. This would be an option to give trainers more Pokémon and also make the battles more game-like (switch if you're in a bad matchup). However, as the Pokémon are more interesting to the franchise than the trainers, it's not going to happen (and, in my opinion, a perfectly good way to handle it) - 5-6 Pokémon for Ash + a rival character, 3-4 for major supporting characters (Team Rocket counting as one character for this) and 1-2 for one-off trainers.

Anyways, there's a few things that I personally find disrespectful to the franchise:

1. Major roles in the game being extremely out of character - this is primarily noticeable in Gen 1, though there's a few modern examples (such as Colress).

Here's my opinions on the Gen 1 cast:

Professor Oak: Him being a poet is a nice addition to his character without being unreasonably out of place. Otherwise, it's also quite clever for him to manage Ash's boxed Pokémon.

Gary: Just as arrogant as in the games - he's one of the most popular characters for a reason. Still, I would have liked to see him use more Pokémon (Exeggutor, Gyarados and Rhydon come to mind)

Brock: Proof that Anime makers can't survive without shoehorning in a pervert. It's this cliché that keeps most people away from the medium. There's several animes who don't do that, but there's more than enough that do to convince the majority of people that anime is pervy.

Misty: There isn't really much that violates her in-game personality, but most of her character is just two traits: "Girl" and "Water-Type user"

Bill: Only thing worth mentioning is that they changed the DNA thing to a costume. Turning people into Pokémon might've been too big of a deal (still, there's Satochu). I guess they wanted to make something that's easier to animate or doesn't involve Ash handling a PC.

Lt. Surge: I think his condescending attitude is a little jarring, but not exactly unreasonable.

Erika: Way too exaggerated in her behavior - she's much more quiet in the game. Also, makes use of fart innuendos in battle - I think the writers forgot the move Petal Dance exists.

Koga: He's a ninja master. One of the few characters to be better than in the game - not only is his ninja presence more pronounced, he uses a much more fitting Pokémon (Venomoth instead of Weezing/Muk).

Sabrina: I don't know what made the editors turn the most peaceful character into a psychopath (forget the whip, Sabrina lets TR run free in Saffron and didn't do anything as you cleaned up). I guess they wanted to show off the Psychic-Type even more (even in Gen 1, it wasn't that good) and give a hint that is blatantly wrong (no, Gen 1 ghosts can't do squat against Psychics, but Chansey laughs at most of them).

Blaine: I like how they gave him a character trait based on his gym, but I think it might be a little overdone. It's a give and take, though, as his dialgoue isn't as hammy.

Giovanni: While is portrayal as a typical crime boss is alright, I don't like how much the writers bent over backwards to make sure Ash never encounters him. They could've easily made him get away after his plans were foiled, like all kid cartoons handle main villains.

Lorelei: Remember what Sabrina was like? It would have made perfect sense if Lorelei was the vicious, sadist freak who has no compassion for her opponents. Instead, she's just a typical study girl. Perfect chance to make a great introduction for the Elite 4 challenge, but if there's one thing the writers love, it's wasting potential.

Bruno: He barely even appears onscreen. All I remember is him showing up in battle in the first episode.

Agatha: Doesn't exist until Gen 2, where all of her canon traits are discarded and she's a random hermit instead. What.

Lance: Doesn't show up until Gen 2, either. Not even there does a get a significant role (his ties to Blackthorn City are written out, as is the fact he's the champion of the region).

Rambling over, next point:

2. Mishandling of the various types

I get it that you need to beat a Pokémon and not its type, but it's way too often that the Pokémon are better at countering things they're weak to than to fight things their own type (just look at Pikachu vs. Water Pokémon compared to his performance against Ground-Types). It goes to a point where you're stupid for actually trying to go for type weaknesses. Not to mention that a few type matchups are simply forgotten (Ghost is ineffective against Normal, but Noctowl is still vulnerable to Shadow Ball). There's also the fact that Psychic-Types are impervious to virtually anything and most moves of the type are interchangeable. At least they got the 'Dark is immune to Psychic' right.
Sabrina: I think that's why in the manga, she's in Team Rocket.
The anime Sabrina is extremely popular due to being a psychopath, plus, she's also portrayed as a psychopath in the card games.

Lorelei: I think the anime Lorelei is just boring. Too much focus on her body, too.
I don't think she's supposed to be a psychopath though.
In the manga, at least, she never directly destroyed those ice voodoo dolls (which would cause the trainer's real body the shatter) even when she actually could do it. Moreover, she panicked when Blue/Green-the-girl broke her doll, so she isn't that malicious.
 
Well, Lorelei makes it very clear how powerless you're against her in-game. But yeah, it could be expanded upon as FR/LG shows she's only acting scary. Having her being crazy at least makes more sense than with Sabrina honestly. While the anime portrayal is by no means a bad concept, it's pretty much a different character who only shares the name and profession of the original. Pokéstar Studios confirms that it's merely a bad rep she's not happy with - basically like Lorelei in reverse.

I'm fine with some artistic license in the battles as the game is turn-based (despite Pokémon Origins and Adventures abiding to game mechanics and making it work), but as it stands now, the anime portrays the source material no better than the Super Mario Bros. movie did.
 
I like how Talonflame acts as both Ash's typical bird pokemon for a region AND his main fire pokemon for a region. All of Ash's other birds are normal types, but this is the first time his bird acts as a second type, which is why Ash didn't get any basic fire pokemon in Kalos.

You can tell in some sagas the writers struggled to keep up the grass/fire/water/flying combo, like how Torkoal was basically irrelevant for most of Hoenn and only given to Ash to fill out the fire pokemon quota that saga. I also prefer it when Ash doesn't get all the starters for this reason, it was fine in Kanto because it was the first series, but in Johto and Unova he really didn't need all the starters
 
Unova was the first hard reset of the games, and they wanted to emulate that in the anime. That was why they gave Ash brand new eyes and relived having all the starters.
 
Has the anime notably improved in Gen 6? Gen 4 tried to improve Ash by making a secondary lead who is much worse than him and Gen 5 fully embraces the OOC of Gen 1, except they made it even worse. They also had a problem of not getting to introduce the hype characters of the Gen until the series was nearing its end, completely ruining N and his relation to Ghetsis. (fyi N was promoted even more than the cover legendaries)

Also, Gen 3+4 had the ludicrous implementation of contests, which was the writer's way of making the battle independent from the result.
 
Has the anime notably improved in Gen 6? Gen 4 tried to improve Ash by making a secondary lead who is much worse than him and Gen 5 fully embraces the OOC of Gen 1, except they made it even worse. They also had a problem of not getting to introduce the hype characters of the Gen until the series was nearing its end, completely ruining N and his relation to Ghetsis. (fyi N was promoted even more than the cover legendaries)

Also, Gen 3+4 had the ludicrous implementation of contests, which was the writer's way of making the battle independent from the result.
They made Ash competent again, the gym battles are handled with quality jumps and the side characters end up doing more than the ones in gen 1-4 but way less than in 5(I honestly liked that in unova at least they went into tournaments). The traveling group dynamic feels very friendly and no one bites a remark for each other so no forced drama, also TR has done decent stuff, not gonna say great due to the cheese incident but they aren't as bad as some 4th gen incidents.

It has improved, also Serena is doing "contest" without the bullshit o meter wich is a great improvement over those bar descends as the writers demand that happened inconsistently in gen 3-4.
 
Biggest offender imo regarding the Gen 4 contests was Ash's Buizel vs. Chinchou - Buizel was far more active and Chinchou never landed a hit, except when it only served to make Aqua Jet look more impressive and also hit harder. Yet Chinchou was given the win solely for its typing.

It was similarly one-sided with a rigged win for Dawn - I didn't know what Pokémon she used (I think Buneary), but it was vs. a Garchomp.
 
Oh my god, the character development they put Serena through with the Pokemon dog shows is amazing. The episodes where May and Dawn entered a contest didn't have that intensity, where they had to face the reality of how much it takes to do well in the contest circuit. I was so wowed that they gave Serena that moment at her first show, where it's demonstrated that you're not likely to make a good impression on the first try, and it's so much more than just showing up.
 
Oh my god, the character development they put Serena through with the Pokemon dog shows is amazing. The episodes where May and Dawn entered a contest didn't have that intensity, where they had to face the reality of how much it takes to do well in the contest circuit. I was so wowed that they gave Serena that moment at her first show, where it's demonstrated that you're not likely to make a good impression on the first try, and it's so much more than just showing up.
You're probably remembering the contests incorrectly then. They had Dawn lose two appeal rounds in a row and showed her go through major depression that went on for several episodes. They also had May humiliated by Harley in several episodes and also got destroyed by Solidad in the Grand Festival where she burst into tears. Also every main girl lost her first Contest too.

The lack of battling in Serena's goal really prevents me from getting excited about it, mainly because battling makes everything more interesting. I think Serena's showcases are meant to be more similar to the in-game Contests.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top